Restoration of a rare 35' Lyman Sea Hawk

[mucrewbtp]

Some of you may have been following a previous thread of mine where I started following this project. The previous thread can be found here which includes most of my initial inspection: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?103519-New-to-the-forum-but-not-to-wood-boats.-New-Project I am getting started again after taking some time off to work on my other boat, a 1961 24' Lyman. The new project boat is a 1971 35' Lyman Sea Hawk Express Cruiser. It is the largest and rarest of the post-war Lymans, only 5 or 6 were built, and I only know of one other that is still around.

I found the boat on a back lot in Columbus Ohio. The boat was in pretty bad shape, but being young dumb and a Lyman enthusiast I decided I just had to take on the project. Last fall I started to strip out the interior so that I can inspect and repair the entire hull. Currently I am working on removing the engines and fuel tanks so the boat can be moved to my indoor shop. The end-goal with this boat is to completely repair the hull to as-new condition using the same or similar materials and methods that were used to construct the boat originally.

The aft deck as it started this morning:




A glimpse into what awaits me in the bilges:





Removing Hatches:





Port side deck removed, outer edge is badly rotted:






Starboard side cockpit deck removed, It is becoming obvious that some shoddy repairs have been done to this boat throughout its history:






Water heater, poo tanks, exhaust, and a snarl of hoses await removal.



Continued...

[mucrewbtp]

Removing framing:




Poo tanks and associated hoseage need to come out:




Poo tanks are out working on the exhaust:




Exhaust removed:





Engines and fuel tanks come out next:





The steam bent frames will be very easy to replace on this boat. Extra points to anyone who can spot the reason why;

[Excalibur]

Because they are sistered to the frames from the other side and pass over the keelson and under the stringers without notches? This is identical to the way my Chris Sea Skiff is done. The Chris people obviously knew a good thing when they saw it. I will be watching your posts with GREAT interest since this will be my next task on my boat as well.

[mucrewbtp]

That is correct, the steam bent frames only go from the sheer on one side, through to the outside of the outboard engine stringer on the other side and are laid next to the opposite frame. This gives a double frame throughout the bottom for added strength, and will also allow me to replace the frames without having to make any scarph joints like I had to in my 24' Lyman where the frames ran from sheer to sheer.

I didnt realize this until looking at the pictures, I had originally thought that there was one frame running from sheer to sheer with a sister that just ran between the stringers. I had visions of trying to find 20' long straight grained WO and trying to bend in the frames all in one piece to avoid having to make 200 scarph joints. I assume the factory did it this way because even for Lyman sourcing the required lumber to do one piece frames would have been extremely dificult.


Regards,
-Mike

[mucrewbtp]

I was out at the boat yesterday and drained about 100 gallons of vintage gasoline out of the tanks. Tanks are now removed, next out will be the engines. Standby for another update with pictures in a few days.

Regards,
-Mike

[mucrewbtp]

No pictures of engine removal yet, but since my original thread disappeared I will post some pictures of what has happenend thus far.

The boat where I found it in Columbus:





My first "reality check" when I cut the shrink wrap off:




I had the boat hauled out and moved to my shop in Port Clinton:




Boat is waiting outside until the current project vacates the shop:




While it is outside I start to the process of stripping out the interior to get at the hull. The galley before removal:




After removal:




Continued...

[mucrewbtp]

Cabin sole removed, what you see in the bilge are walnut shells. The boat played host to a heard of squirrells while in columbus. To date I have probably removed about 200 pounds worth of walnut shells from the bilges.




After some vacuuming and scraping the area doesnt look too bad. There is some rot in the planking that was under the galley:




Here you can see the PM nuts what were used to fasten the planking between the frames which is different than the traditional lyman clinch nails. You can also see where the debris from the squirrells held moisture and caused some rot through the first ply of the planking.





More nuts under the starboard side bunk/lounge area. This picture was taken after a lot of the nuts had already been removed, this area was packed to the gills:




More of the same, you get the idea. Squirrells + boats = bad news. They have also chewed some of the wood, but not a lot their damage is reparable. When I first started uncovering the evidence of inhabitation I had visions of finding an engine stringer chewed in half. So far the main structual members all appear to be in good shape.





The picture that keeps me going, this has been the background on my phone and computer sice I found it. In a few years my boat should look a lot more like the original brochure picture, except I plan to finish the cabin sides bright mahogany instead of painted white.




Regards,
-Mike

[ripley699]

Gonna be a nice looking boat, Mike !

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Great pics.... Yes, tree rats are bad news. When I bought my CC cruiser, some of the wiring had been chewed by squirrels, and had to be replaced... but not the mess you are dealing with.

Great thread.

[mucrewbtp]

Updates from the last couple of days, first task was draining and removal of the fuel tanks. The tanks each weighed about 150 lbs dry. I am considering replacing them with aluminum tanks when they go back in to save weight and make sure there are no tank corosion issues down the road that tend to happen with these older steel tanks.




Next the framing associated with the fuel tanks was removed. All of the framing in this area has unfortunately been fastened with plated steel screws. I guess that was Lymans idea of "saltwater fastened throughout" towards the end of wood boat production. They all will be replaced with either stainless or silicon bronze when it goes back together.





Engines are ready to be pulled out, I will be making an engine cradle that matches the engine beds so that I can store and test run the engines outside of the boat. Since the engine is mounted flywheel forward, so close to the bulkhead, engine setup will probably need to be done outside of the boat before mounting the engine.




I am not even going to bother tracing out any of the wiring, I will start from scratch with a modern electrical panel and wiring standards.




After the engines are out, the boat will be moved indoors to the new shop where hull work will begin. I was wondering if I should add some bracing across the engine beds once the engine is removed. The engine itself does tie the engine stringers together however I am not sure if it adds any structual integrity. I would be interested in hearing opinions from anyone who has had engines pulled from a boat for long periods of time, or has moved a boat with engines removed.

Regards,
Mike

[Gerarddm]

Wow. A thorough, huge project. Good on ya, mate.

But worth it. What handsome lines!

[mucrewbtp]

Removed the rudders, shafts, and props today, engines soon to follow.

There is some sort of bracing here that is not original. A poor attempt at shoring up the support for the rudderpost as the oiginal piece failed. The board tacked on top of this one tied it to the brace on the other side.




After the port side support is removed it can be seen that one end is rotted off, one more item in the replace pile... The engine stringer will also need a dutchman to repair some deterioration due to steel fastners.




I also removed the shafts and struts. This is what is left of the backing support where the strut is bolted. The placement of the leaky mufflers above this piece kept moist, a prime area for rot. The corosponding piece on the other side is intact and can be used as a pattern.




A dutchman will also have to be put in along the bottom edge of the stringer as well.




Engines should be coming out within a week or so.

Regards,
Mike

[Excalibur]

Mike, what would you have charged for this much work if it were a customer's boat?

[purri]

Got a spare $125K to complete brudda?

[CharlieCobra]

Mike, the project is looking good. The boat is in very nice shape. Ya oughta see the disaster I bid on last week.

[mucrewbtp]

Mike, what would you have charged for this much work if it were a customer's boat?

It's hard to say, I guess to this point I would value my labor at somewhere between one to two thousand dollars. I haven't really been keeping track of the time I have into it though. Are you looking to hire some work out?

Regards,
Mike

[mucrewbtp]

I was finally able to unearth the original thread I had started on this project. If you would like to see what happened up to this point please take a look at the original thread here: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...s.-New-Project

[mucrewbtp]

Nothing exciting, Just finished the first of two engine cradles. These will be used for engine storage and also to test run the engines. Later they will be used for set up and break in after the engines are rebuilt. With as tight as the engines are shoe-horned into the boat I imagine all timing and stetup will be best done before mounting the engines in the boat permanently.

[ben2go]

That should hold up fairly well.

[mucrewbtp]

I have to admit, after building the engine cradle and seeing how sturdy it was I had a brief vision of grafting a rear axle onto it and riding the engine around like a go-kart. However the logistics of this is of course completely absurd. It would require way too long of a hose to keep the fresh water cooled engines running.

Regards,
Mike

[mucrewbtp]

Engines came out today and the boat was moved inside to the new shop, now the real work can begin.

I forgot to grab the camera until we were already on the second engine. I was able to bum a medium sized backhoe with an extend-o-boom which made the job go very smoothly.




After the eingine was freed of all hoses and wires a three point lifting rig was attached, the engine and transmission were lifted out together as one unit.




At this point things seemed to be going way too smoothly, less than a half hour into the day and the second engine is already coming out.




Lowering the engine onto the engine stand.




More of the same:




Taking the engine back to the new shop before the boat goes in.




Continued...

[mucrewbtp]

The boat hauler showed up about ten minutes later. it took about 20 minutes for him to position the hudraulic trailer and remove all of the bracing.



If anybody else on the forum is in the Sandusky/Port Clinton area and needs a boat moved I highly reccommed Catawba Island Marine Transit. Mark does excellent work and charges a very reasonable rate.





The boat fit nicely into the new shop, I actually ended up with much more working room than I thought I would have given the size of the boat.




The view from the loft, it should make long-term storage of interior bits much easier. It may also give me a place to sleep.






I think I have it fairly well supported, the adjustable keel jacks are much better than the old wood block method. Im sure you will notice that there is a high spot in the foreward keel from improper blocking in its history. right now I have left the keel un-supported in that area in the hopes that it may gradually return to its original position, if anyone has suggestions on how to remedy the issue I would be glad to hear about it.





Shes all put away. It should be at least a few months before shes ready for the water again...



Thanks for looking,

Mike

[ben2go]

Good work and nice work shop.The keel isn't to bad.I have seen worse.I'm no boat expert so I'll leave, the how to repair it, to the professionals.

[THE LAKE]

Just wanted to comment on your effort to date. No idea how much spare time you have, but it's obvious you've already put in many many hours of good solid work on this restoration. I also see that you plan things well and I think when you've got a project of the magnitude of this one, that skill is almost as valuable as mechanical and woodworking ability. I look forward to your continued posts on this thread and watching your progress. Lastly I wish you fair seas and following winds in this wonderful restoration.

Brian

[mucrewbtp]

Brian,

Thank you for the note, I wish you good luck on your restoration as well, feel free to drop me a line if you have any questions on your own project. mossmancfii@gmail.com

Regards,
Mike

[THE LAKE]

Updates from the last couple of days, first task was draining and removal of the fuel tanks. The tanks each weighed about 150 lbs dry. I am considering replacing them with aluminum tanks when they go back in to save weight and make sure there are no tank corosion issues down the road that tend to happen with these older steel tanks.



with plated steel screws. I guess that was Lymans idea of "saltwater fastened throughout" towards the end of wood boat production. They all will be replaced with either stainless or silicon bronze when it goes back together.





Engines are ready to be pulled out, I will be making an engine cradle that matches the engine beds so that I can store and test run the engines outside of the boat. Since the engine is mounted flywheel forward, so close to the bulkhead, engine setup will probably need to be done outside of the boat before mounting the engine.




I am not even going to bother tracing out any of the wiring, I will start from scratch with a modern electrical panel and wiring standards.




After the engines are out, the boat will be moved indoors to the new shop where hull work will begin. I was wondering if I should add some bracing across the engine beds once the engine is removed. The engine itself does tie the engine stringers together however I am not sure if it adds any structual integrity. I would be interested in hearing opinions from anyone who has had engines pulled from a boat for long periods of time, or has moved a boat with engines removed.

Regards,
Mike

Mike
As a marine designer, I can tell you it's very rare that any piece of machinery is designed as a integral structural member. Having said that however where you are going into such great depth with this restoration, unless you are intentionally looking to change your hull shape (hogging etc) bracing, cross ties, wire/turnbuckles - - anything of that nature to ensure you retain the exact shape of the hull as she was when you began the project can only be a good thing. I can see you've forgotten more about wooden boat restoration than I'll ever know, but I hope you took a bunch of dimensions before you began stripping things out. And I mean a BUNCH. Again, good luck, projects of this type fascinate me although to be honest, I've not the energy or the guts to take one on.

Brian


Next the framing associated with the fuel tanks was removed. All of the framing in this area has unfortunately been fastened

[chuckt]

Hey Mike! Nice to see your build thread going. You have to have a project going eh? Are you keeping both boats? I will be watching with great interest.

I will be in your city next week! Going to Cleveland for some meetings. I don't have much free time but just in case are there any must-see boat things in town?

[mucrewbtp]

Brian,

I decided that engine removal wouldn't adversely effect hull integrity, especially for such a short move. All of the cockpit deck framing that was removed was labeled and dimensioned so that it can be replaced in the same manner. Before the deck comes off to facilitate frame replacement I will be making a full size template of the deck and taking plenty of measurements. When the deck is removed temporary stiffeners will be added at the sheer along the outside of the hull and some turnbuckles and bracing will be added on the inside.

I will first start with some repairs to the engine stringers, then replace the steam bent frames before working on the transom or planking. I believe this order should keep the hull as strong as possible and minimize the chance of it changing shape. Of course if anyone has other suggestions I would be glad to hear them.

Regards,
Mike

[mucrewbtp]

Chuck,

You should check out the Mather it is an old lake freighter that is docked right downtown on the waterfront. It is in the same area as the rock and roll hall of fame and the science center. They have a cool self-guided tour where you basically just wander around the ship for as long as you like.

Regards,
Mike

[mucrewbtp]

And yes I will definitely be keeping both boats.

[mucrewbtp]

I was out at the boat today removing the engine beds and inspecting the stringers. In several spots I will have to set in a Dutchman due to rusting steel fasteners causing deterioration. On one of the stringers next to the backing brace for the prop strut there is some rot on the underside of the stringer. I will have to scarph in a new section approximately 5 feet long in the stern. On the steam bent frames on the 24 Lyman I used a standard 8:1 scarph. Is there a point of deminishing returns when it comes to scarph joints? If I go with an 8:1 on the stringer I will end up with a 64" long scarph joint. I am thinking a 24" long scarph should work and will have plent of gluing surface. If anyone else hias a suggestion or has made a similar repar I would be glad to hear about it.

Regards,
Mike

[cap'nRod]

You can go shorter (i.e. 24" or so) ....just sink a few screws into the joint(s) to make up for the loss of gluing surface. Nice job on taking her apart so far. That's quite the project.

[simonmags]

I think a 12 to 1 scarf joint is about the point where the joint becomes as stong if not stronger than the wood around it, from memory there is a table or at least a section in the Gougeoun brothers book on boat building that explains it in great technical detail if you want to get into that. Excuse my ignorance but what is a "Dutchman" Is that to allow the bilge water / moisture to move about / evaporate?

(Glen-L has a section called "Scarf Joints" up on his website too)

[Excalibur]

It's hard to say, I guess to this point I would value my labor at somewhere between one to two thousand dollars. I haven't really been keeping track of the time I have into it though. Are you looking to hire some work out?

Regards,
Mike

I don't think my old CC would make it to Ohio I just wondered how badly I'd get beat up by the local wood butchers for a new bottom...

[mucrewbtp]

I think a 12 to 1 scarf joint is about the point where the joint becomes as stong if not stronger than the wood around it, from memory there is a table or at least a section in the Gougeoun brothers book on boat building that explains it in great technical detail if you want to get into that. Excuse my ignorance but what is a "Dutchman" Is that to allow the bilge water / moisture to move about / evaporate?

(Glen-L has a section called "Scarf Joints" up on his website too)

A Dutchman is a fancy word for a piece of wood that is set into another piece of wood in order to repair a small area.

[mucrewbtp]

Excalibur,

Last time I checked, the shops around here were charging between $55-$65 per hour. These were shops that specialize in wood boats, I am not sure what you raverage boat yard would charge.

-Mike

[mucrewbtp]

It has been a while since I last posted an update. I was out at the boat yesterday cleaning, scraping, vacuuming, and wasinging the inside of the hull so that I can more easily examine the stringers, planking etc. An electric pressure washer made the job much easier than the scrub brush and bucket method. In the process of cleaning out the forward bilges to allow the water to drain out I made several discoveries. First, when I rebuild the cabin sole, I will definately be building larger access hatches to get at the bilges. Second, squirrell nests smell an awful lot like wet dog when soaked with bilge water. Lastly there are hardly any frames left in the foreward bilges that havent been chewed through or completely eaten by a combination of rot and rodent. The only frames left are several very poor attemts at laminating that have turned back into a very flexible stack of wood with no noticable bonding left between the lams. There was however quite a pool of hardened epoxy laying in the bilges. It almost seems like the lams were stacked in there and then someone tried to pour epoxy on top of it. It never ceases to amaze me the type of awful workmanship that can be found in repairs to these old boats.

Next week I will begin making templates and removing the deck in preparation to start re-framing the boat. I also have several dutchman repairs to make to the bottom edge of the stringers in a few areas due mostly to rodent damage. I will be adding some stifiners to the outer edge of the hull before the deck comes off. I am trying to devise a way to add temporary braces to the hull in a way that leaves as few holes as possible in parts of the boat that will not be replaced. In the past I have used cables and turnbuckles to hold the hull sides in on the 24' when I re-decked it. If anyone has some creative ideas how to support the hull during this operation I am open to suggestions.

Regards,
Mike

[Excalibur]

Excalibur,

Last time I checked, the shops around here were charging between $55-$65 per hour...
-Mike

Aye, and that's the rub. The hourly rate is easy to determine. It the Number Of Hours that's tough

[mucrewbtp]

Some time ago after removing the prop strut braces I discovered this and I knew I would have some stringer repair work ahead of me. Seeing how the rot ran right along a grounding strap I am wondering if some sort of electrolysis caused the degradation of the stringer.




Out at the boat today I got to inspecting the stringer. Since all the rot was on the bottom surface I began by removing the plank directly beneath the stringer. This job was much easier than I had expected due mostly to the fact that the hull planking was attached with machine screws and stamped PM nuts instead of the traditional Lyman clinch nails. Also my trusty Fein tool made quick work of cutting through the 5200 between the laps without messing up the planks. After only about an hour I was looking at this.




A view of the effected area, this is the first time i have gotten a look at it. it doesnt look all that bad, right.




After some quality time with a chisel this is what remained of the port outboard engine stringer.



Originally I had thought I would be in-setting a 1" thick dutchman, now I have decided to scarph in a 5 foot section to replace the aft-most part of the stringer. These are made of douglas fir, and surprisingly the local big orange box store has some decent looking douglas fir 4X4s that I can use to laminate a new stringer section. Next task will be to devise a router jig to cut the scarph on the part of the stringer that is staying attached to the boat. I like a good sharp chisel but not enough to cut an 18" long scarph joint in a 3" wide stringer.

Regards,
Mike

[mucrewbtp]

I am getting some lumber glued up to make the new stringer section. I found two pieces of Douglas fir both have fairly tight vertical grain. One has tighter grain and weighs about half again as much as the other. When gluing up the piece I can either keep all of the heavy one and glue on about an inch and a half worth of thickness from the other one which would put the glue joint two thirds up from the bottom of the stringer. Or I can just split the difference and put the glue joint in the middle. Both are good pieces of lumber so I'm probably over thinking it. Opinions?



Regards,
Mike

[mucrewbtp]

bump for added picture, Gluing it up tonight.

[mucrewbtp]

Some updates over the last week or two. I have created the new stringer section out of some decent douglas fir. After closer inspection I think the damage that I originally cut out was partly electrolysis damage. The effected spot was right alongside a bare bonding strap. I think the dampness in the area didnt help, but I do believe the culprit was stray current. The damaged wood fibers were light in color and soft. Not dark and crumbly with cross-grain checking like dry rot. When re-done the bonding system will be done all with insulated wire.


The scarph on the new piece was cut in the shop at home on the band saw. I went for a 24" long scarph that will be epoxied, and I will also be using three bronze carriage bolts and some bronze screws at the thinner ends. Here some guide strips of white oak are screwed to the sides of the stringer and checked for alignment with the new piece.





More bottom planking was also removed to allow access to the underside of the joint where the carriage bolts will be put through. The bolts will be used to clamp the joint and will be left in permanently for added strengeth.





The scarph on the existing stringer was cut first by making cross-cuts to the approximate depth using a skilsaw, then the waste was cut away with a chisel. The finishing was done with a hand plane. The thin end is uneven because the stringer is angled on the bottom face. Its supposed to look like that.






The new stringer is test fit, bolts and epoxy comes tomorrow!





Another View, Its nice to see some new wood going in.




Regards,
Mike

[mucrewbtp]

The new stringer section was bolted and epoxied in today. The whole operation seemed to go way too smoothly. Everything just lined up, dropped in and was true and straight with no persuading. I have decided that I will address all of the stringers before moving to replacing framing. The other three stringers in the aft portion of the boat have some damage resulting from rusted steel fasteners. Right now the plan is to make a router jig to remove the topmost inch of thickness off of each stringer and add a new Douglas fir cap with a scarph joint at the running end. This should get rid of the bulk of the problem areas in the stringers. Anything that does not come off within the first inch of thickness will be dealt with by adding a small Dutchman before adding the new top cap if necessary. I will post pictures of the new stringer section tomorrow and I will post updates of the other stringer repairs.

Regards,
Mike

[mucrewbtp]

Some pictures from stringer installation:

The new section is clamped, checked for fit and alignment and then the holes are drilled through the existing stringer.




New section is epoxied in and bolted and clamped until cured. The bolts will stay in permanently.




Its nice to see some new wood going in:




Next will be some minor repar to the top surfaces of the remaining stringers before moving on to the steam bent frames.

Regards,
Mike

[mucrewbtp]

I have moved on to the next engine stringer. It appears that in the stern, aft of the fuel tanks is where most of the damage lives. A combination of steel fasteners and leaky, hastily installed poo tanks that were installed with garden hose and duct tape plumbing has caused the majority of the issues.

In this picture you can see our next subject. the majority of the rot is in the aft most portion where the rudderpost support was fastened.




A closeup of the worst of the damage. I will be cutting off the top 1 1/2" of the stringer in about a 4' section this should get rid of the really bad spot and some other not so happy areas further forward.




To begin I fastened two guide strips on either side of the stringer exactly and inch and a half down from the top surface. I then used a skilsaw to cut down 1 3/8" every inch or so.




I then was able to easily knock out the little bits that were formed with a soft hammer to quickly get down to an approximate depth.




Next I smoothed the surface down to the gauge strips with a hand plane which is not pictured. The dark marks are not rot, it is sound wood that is stained dark due to a rusting fastener. The next task is to cut the scarph joint in the forward end and epoxy in the new cap which I should get to tomorrow.





Thanks for looking, comments or suggestions are welcome.

Regards,
Mike

[mucrewbtp]

I was out at the boat shop today and got some more work done on the stringer repairs. This current stringer still has a small patch to be made on the bottom edge in an area about the size of a half dollar. In actuality I could probably just dig out the bad stuff, hit it with CPES and bilge paint and be done, but I will be putting in a small dutchman just so I can feel better about myself. After this stringer is done I will have one more stringer to cap and then I should be able to move on to the steam bending as long as I dont find any other suprises.

I attached guide blocks to either side of the stringer to gauge the corect taper for the scarph joint. Since the scarph joint does not run off the piece, I was not able to use a plane for a good portion of the taper so I started with a drawknife to get it roughed out almost to size.




I felt all special that I actually found an occasion to use a drawknife;





I finished it off to size with a block plane and a spoke shave:




After getting it fit I used some west systems and 403 microfiber filler to bond it to the original piece. I used screws and washers instead of clamps because there was no good way to clamp it without removing some bottm planking. The screws are steel because they will only be temporary.




The piece of wood that I used for this repair is actuall re-purposed from the section cut out of the adjacent stringer. I like to re-use original wood anywhere I can and rarely scrap anything out.




Thanks for looking,
Mike

[PaulT]

Mike:
Very cool thread. Interesting to me to watch the repairs. Just great solutions to repairing these pieces without tearing up the whole boat.

Thanks
Paul T

[Tom Freeman]

I don't have much to offer at this point, but I'm enjoying following your progress. Thanks for posting.

[mucrewbtp]

Thanks for the comments, it's good to know people are finding the thread informative, or at least entertaining. I'll be posting more of the same coming up with some more stringer repair. I figure it's best to repair the most structurally significant members first, then work my way down the food chain. After stringers will come frames then planking. A new transom is in order sometime too. Stay posted I'll keep posting updates as progress is made.

Regards,
Mike

[Dave Katt]

Yes, keep the posts coming. This is good stuff!