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Thread: Starting a Hartley 14

  1. #1
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    Default Starting a Hartley 14

    Hi, I'm new to boat building and I plan to start a Hartley 14 soon. I purchased the plans from Clark Craft and all I received were 2 pages of plans and some photocopies of information on building Hartley 16's and 21's. I've studied the plans thoroughly and I can't find any information on gussets, do I just cut them from scraps or do they have to be a specific size? Do I put gussets on either side of the frame or just one side? See I'm clueless.

    Anyways thanks for the help.

    Gerald

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    I can't help you with those specific plans but I can point you to a website that has hundreds of free plans for those old plywood on frame designs. Studying a couple of plans for boats similat to the Hartley would be a good tutorial because they illustrate the standard way things were done.
    http://www.svensons.com/boat/

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    Gusset both sides with quality marine ply. Here's a couple pics from the Glen-L site:




  4. #4
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    Welcome to the forum Gerald, put up a few details about yourself and you'll find everyone a little more willing to help you out. Where are you located??

    Do a search on Hartley's here and you'll find a good bit of information on them, including a TS14 build in progress:
    Larks

    "Be who you are and say what you feel...
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    We're the only species on earth that claims to have a god...and the only species on earth that lives as if we don't have a god.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    Quote Originally Posted by GeraldC View Post
    Hi, I'm new to boat building and I plan to start a Hartley 14 soon. I purchased the plans from Clark Craft and all I received were 2 pages of plans and some photocopies of information on building Hartley 16's and 21's. I've studied the plans thoroughly and I can't find any information on gussets, do I just cut them from scraps or do they have to be a specific size? Do I put gussets on either side of the frame or just one side? See I'm clueless.

    Anyways thanks for the help.

    Gerald
    Welcome to WBF. Larks is right -- more info etc. I find it strange that you bought plans for a TS14 but received info on TS16 and 21s???? I am a wooden boat "rookie" but I am refurbishing a Hartley 12 -- and let me lay claim once more, that I believe I have the only operating TS12 in the US -- I say this to hopefully bring others out. There is a neat TS14 being chronicled on this forum (by Geary) and the best looking TS14 in the world by Bob Smalser is also in this forum. Again, welcome, and more info please.
    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. Will Rogers

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    Sorry I should have introduced myself first. My name's Gerald, I'm 35, a stay at home dad and I live in Orillia, Ontario, Canada. I live a stone's throw from lake Simcoe, Couchaching and a few others. I will be taking a sailing course in the near future (when the wife lets me and hope this will only be the first of many builds that I do. I originally bought the Hartley plans because it's a small boat with a cuddy.

    Chuck, I've been to that site, some nice looking boats there (and a sub too), but no full size plans.

    Jimd, Thanks for the pics, seeing the gussets makes them make a little more sense.

    yesiam, I was a little put off when I received the plans and photocopies, they don't mention a 14 at all. I'm tempted to get the Minuet plans from glen-l. I'm almost ready to start building, just need a location, It's down to the backyard and renting a shop.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    You obviously do not have the real thing Hartley 14 plans. They are in fact quite detailed. The owner of the Rights lives here in Thames NZ and I can put you in touch with him if you like.
    Keep It Simple: KISS it better.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    Thanks for sharing the photos of the building process.
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    If you're aiming for a very enjoyable, forgiving, and surprisingly fast daysailer with camp-cruising potential for one or two, the Hartley 14 is worth the effort. I had one and sailed it on Lyttelton Harbour, NZ as a neophyte.



    The Hartley gave me the feeling that it was looking out for me, even when I made an error in sail trim or course. The chined ply hull booms like the devil in the steep, stiff chop that comes up in those parts. But I learned to trust the boat, which is the basis of a good working relationship. Sad day, when I had to sell it and leave NZ.

    I'd have built one here (Wyoming) but it's a bit too much boat for the local water.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    On my 16 that I built gussets were needed on both sides on frames # 1,#2, and #3. One side only on #4 because the bulkhead is secured on opposite side. #5 had both sides at chine but one side only in bilge. And of course one side only at transom

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    Have you contacted Clark Craft and verified that you received a full plan set and not a study plan set?

    Many, many years ago I purchased Hartley 18 plans from Clark Craft and received a full set of blueprints that were obviously from Hartley (I think 6 or 7 sheets) and pretty detailed. I can't imagine the TS14 plans would be less detailed.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    When I bought my plans for the Spindrift 24 I also bought Hartley's books, here's a link to some of them.
    http://www.hartley-boats.com/books.html
    “Wisdom comes from experience. Experience is often a result of lack of wisdom.”
    Terry Pratchett

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    When I first received the plans I emailed Clark Craft about gussets but I never received an answer. The two pages I received are only the frame patterns.

    Candyfloss I'd like that contact info please.

    Wife's gonna kill me if I have to order new plans

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    I'm blowed if I know what is happening with the search function on this forum but I can't imagine you've had much luck with it, I've been trying ti use it myself and it's pretty bloody awful, but here is Geary's thread on the TS14:

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...4-Construction
    Larks

    "Be who you are and say what you feel...
    Because those that matter...don't mind...
    And those that mind.... don't matter."

    LPBC Beneficiary
    We're the only species on earth that claims to have a god...and the only species on earth that lives as if we don't have a god.
    (US Journalist Paul Kelly on advice from the crayfish)

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    You should have received full size patterns, construction details and sail plan. Get the Hartley book if you can, it takes you through the whole construction process.
    “Wisdom comes from experience. Experience is often a result of lack of wisdom.”
    Terry Pratchett

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    Our dead keen mate Geary just updated his Hartley TS14 build thread: excellent photos and descriptions. I see that Larks posted a link to it, so you're set. Definitely a good idea to get a full set of plans and take your time.

    Good luck.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    Excellent ... another Hartley TS14 build!

    Wow ... sounds like Clark Craft gave you even less plans than the NZ folks gave me. I scratched my head when I looked at them for the first time. ("That's it?! Where do I start?") I got four sheets of paper:

    two sheets with the full-size plans
    one sheet detailed hull and building frame construction
    one sheet rigging and sail plan.

    I also got a material list which turned out to not be accurate at all.

    Regarding the gussets, put them on both sides of the frames, EXCEPT frame #4 and the stern frame ... just put gussets on the fore sides of those, since the bulkhead and transom plywood will later go on the aft sides of the frames. I think the plans say somewhere how big the gussets should be ... but just make them approximately the same size as shown.

    The plans are pretty vague, but you can get by without Hartley's book I think. Just look at blogs of people building the TS14, TS16, TS18, TS21 ... all are very similar. And ask questions on here (with pics of your progress of course).

    Here is my blog:
    http://www.hartleyts14.blogspot.com/

    Also a very well done website of a TS21 build.
    http://mytrailersailer.com/

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    You might consider modifying the TS14 cockpit design a little. Two things I don't like about the original plans:
    1. Not a watertight, self-draining cockpit.
    2. Side decks are not wide enough.

    If you want to widen the side decks, then you have to change frames #5 and #6.

    If you want to have a water-tight cockpit (just a plywood bathtub basically), then you want to make the vertical frame pieces on #5 and #6 wider with checkouts for the carlines (longitudinal frame memebers) ... just so that there will be a flat surface to glue a piece of plywood to.

    The footwell is about 48 inches wide in the plans. Bob Smalser's footwell is about 36 inches wide. I'm making mine about 30 inches wide. I guess the plans show such a wide footwell so two people can sleep on the cockpit sole (?). Other than that, I don't see any benefit to a wide footwell. Advantages of a narrow footwell include: comfortable seating, comfortable bracing of feet on opposite side deck when boat is heeled, the boat will be less likely to take on water after it's knocked down ... and a water tight footwell has less volume of water to drain if it's filled.

    If you look at pics of TS14's online, you'll see that people either made the side decks wider OR didn't install coamings ... I think since they realized late in the process that there would not be enough room to sit comfortably on the side decks with the coamings in place. I want coamings, so I made the decks wider.

    Oh, check out this photo gallery too:
    http://dsn.au.com/Gallery/GallerySearch.php

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    I'm blowed if I know what is happening with the search function on this forum but I can't imagine you've had much luck with it, I've been trying ti use it myself and it's pretty bloody awful, but here is Geary's thread on the TS14:

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...4-Construction
    It is bloody awful. From the FAQ:

    "The built-in search function is LESS than stellar. Instead use Google's "Advanced Search" and paste http://forum.woodenboat.com into the "Search Within a Site or Domain". It's under the "Need More Tools" section."

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    Hi Gerald
    "A stones throw from Lakes Simcoe and Couch". Don't throw that stone you may hit my house. I am on Crawford street (east side of Forest) the house with the driveway torn up and the piles of paving stones in the front yard.

    I am also a " want to be boat builder" with a set of plans and I was a bit surprised at the lack of detail in the plans that I purchased. I have many years expieriance in design, producing and reading mechanical and structural drawings for the manufacture of large process equipment. Those drawings incorporated raw material bills and detailed views. Apparently boat drawings assume that you:

    A/ know all the special terms and names of parts of the boat ( normal words like top. bottom. back. front .left right. seat, rim etc are taboo.) and there are special ways of stating measurement ( 4-5-3)

    B/ that you would already know the reasonable shape of things like knee braces and gussets.

    C/ and that you will draw the complete boat yourself full size to get the detail information you need. (lofting)

    D/ That you will build a massive frame / Jig / mold that could be used to build many boats even though you just want to build one little row boat.

    It is all do-able. It is just going to take a lot more time preparing than I thought and it is not the process I expected (Building a house might be simpler) I purchased two books on boat building from Wooden Boat store online and read them both twice ( especially the many pages of definition of terms in the back) You are welcome to BORROW them if you like. I have to finish the driveway before it snows and will not need to read them again for at least a month when I will once again try to figure out what spilling is.

    Best Regards and good luck
    Jim Bagley
    Jim

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    The Picture Gallery has changed address and can now be found at http://hartley-ts.com.au There are a few TS14's there, as well as Geary's (pics pilfered from his very informative blog)


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Starting a Hartley 14

    It is all do-able. It is just going to take a lot more time preparing than I thought and it is not the process I expected (Building a house might be simpler)
    Had to laugh at your rant. I remember the feeling well. Building a house is without question easier than even a small boat. More work but at least you are dealing with straight lines and regular shapes. I think there is so much to learn before you can build a boat most designers have to assume the amateur builder will do the research themselves. And, I suppose that is what all the boatbuilding books are for.

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