atkin shore liner

[wadec]

Hi, I'm new here and am about to acquire an Atkin Shore Liner. Does anyone know what the weight of this boat might be. I have to trailer it a long ways and need the info to find or build the right trailer. I would also love to see any pics of a shore liner if anybody has them.
Thanks, Wade

[Venchka]

Only one way to know for sure-weigh it.

Wayne
In the Swamp.

[maa. melee]

I'm sure you've been here before, right? I think the ballast alone is 300lbs, even though it's hard to read.

[mmd]

From the lines published in Atkins' "Practical Small Boat Designs" I would estimate she'll be around 5500 lbs. Heavy boat for her size and type.

[AngWood]

Okay, I'll say it. Congratu-damn-lations! Will this be a restoration project, or is it ready to go?

[Venchka]

Where are my manners. Thanks for saving an Atkin designed boat.

If Michael is right, and he probably is, you're going to need a 7,000+ pound, or thereabouts, double (or triple?) axle trailer with brakes. I know it's a bit out of the way, but Champion Trailers in Slidell, LA sell decent aluminum trailers in that size range. I haven't looked lately, but their prices seemed reasonable. Look them up on the internet.

Can you say Ford F-250 diesel pick-up tow vehicle?

Wayne
In the Swamp.

[John Bell]

A Shoreliner coming to middle Tennessee? Cool! I'd love to see it sometime! Where you gonna keep it?

[rbgarr]

FWIW with a 9' 1" beam you'll need to check on trailering laws.

[Venchka]

Originally posted by rbgarr:
FWIW with a 9' 1" beam you'll need to check on trailering laws.

Yep. I didn't catch that when I looked at the plans. I talked to our resident trucking expert yesterday about this very thing. He said permits for that size load are quick, easy and cheap via phone/fax. To be perfectly legal, you'll need permits from each state you transit and an oversize load sign front and rear. I've seen the signs for sale at truck stops.

Wayne
In the Swamp.

[Paul Scheuer]

Was that weight determination done with one of those fancy planimeters ? I could be very wrong, but my roundhouse, eyeball integration, using an 8 x 10 print of the drawing, gets the displacement at about 45.4 cubic ft., or 2800 lbs, without the ballast.

Still probably a four-wheel trailer, but with that flat bottom, it shouldn't be hard to find one that will do.

[mmd]

I knew somebody would question my estimate. Here's how I did it:

Known:

LWL = 22 ft. (from text in book)
D = 1.25 ft. (from linesplan)

Estimated:

BWL = 8 ft. (extrapolated from known Bmax and sections drawing)
Block Coefficient = 0.40 (estimated from experience)

Displ = LWL x BWL x D x Cb x water density/cu. ft.
= 22 x 8 x 1.25 x 0.40 x 62.5
= 5500

I've assumed that the waterline is that of fresh water; if salt water the displacement is 5632 lbs. If this displacement is in fully loaded condition, then trailer weight would be that less crew, water, groceries, beer, etc., which will be in the order of 500 lbs. maximum. giving a dry weight of 5000 lbs.

[Venchka]

Analyze, comparisize, estimate, guesstimate. Variations like this is what keeps our 6 man weigh crew busy 52 weeks a year. I know first hand. I bought a trailer without weighing the finished boat first. I won't do that again. I doubled the designer's estimate of the hull weight, rounded up to the next 100 pounds and I was 30% light. In retrospect, I should have known better. The plywood alone weighed more than the designer's estimate for the completed hull. Think of all the variables in a boat. Is it really cedar over oak as designed? Or some other combination of woods? Are all the pieces exactly as stated or a bit bigger or smaller?

Have the boat weighed to be sure. It could mean the difference between too much or too little trailer/tow vehicle.

Wayne
In the Swamp.

[John Bell]

I don't doubt Michael's estimate of DESIGNED displacement.

Who says she floats on her lines, though?! The real thing could be be a lot heavier or a lot lighter, depending. However, the estimate is most useful in planning, though. Based on the two and half ton estimate, I'd only be looking for a big honkin' trailer. No wimpy single axle jobs need apply!

[wadec]

Thanks Folks,
Lets see if I can answer you all.
The boat is on wbrf.org and I am still negotiating for her but if they let me have her I'll take her.
I grew up on a houseboat near Lake Charles La and probably have a relative with a trailer like this forgotten in the weeds somewhere.
If I can get her she will be near Tims Ford Lake and Woods Resevoir in Southern middle Tn
Can't really weigh her because she's in Connecticut but I am hoping Bruce might have some input on that when he gets back on the 7th.
Meanwhile it's all I can think about and the wife is only a little pissed so I know this is a good idea.
Thanks All, Wade
By the way , still hunting pics

[Paul Scheuer]

OOPS. Standby for a revised calculation. I may have screwed up in my conversion of the length to station spacing. It may be closer to Mike's volume estimate. She is heavy.

I'll have to wait until I get home to come up with a new set of Wild A** Guesses.

[Venchka]

Grinning.

Meanwhile, our weigh crew and their calibrated load cells remain 110% employed.

Wayne
In the Swmap.

[Jack Heinlen]

It might be cheaper to hire someone to haul it for you. If you have a suitable tow vehicle and can find a suitable flat bed, maybe not, but just a thought. Unless, of course, the plan is to do all your own hauling at the beginning and end of the season.

Is this the Shorliner off OEX's boat rescue site? I thought that looked like a worthwhile project, though I'd get rid of the silly skylight and, perhaps, install a lifting cabin top hinged forward. Let us know what you figure out.

Good luck.

[wadec]

It's on the wooden boat rescue foundation 's site but it has that funky sky light so it must be the same one. Still keeping my fingers crossed. W

[Paul Scheuer]

I was tempted to let this thread fade, with my artihmetic boo boo, to old-page oblivion.

Just in case Wadec is buying, renting or hiring a hauler, my rough calculation was indeed seriously off (by a factor of two). So, by my now improved estimation, the weight is more like what Mike first suggested.

It does pay to talk to a pro.

Now the question - why so heavy for a 24 footer ?

[wadec]

Wow, I'm astonished she is so heavy and do not understand why. But I am impressed by the effort and response I received by everybody. Thanks Again, W

[John Bell]

Maybe there's a bunch of easily removable inside ballast you could leave behind where you pick her up. You'd replace it with new ballast when you get her home. How much trailer weight do you think that would save? A thousand pounds? More?

This only makes sense if the cost of the new ballast is less than the cost of moving the old. Concrete blocks or river rocks would be easy to replace. A stack of lead ingots would require a little more scrupulous cost benefit analysis.

[mmd]

"Wow, I'm astonished she is so heavy and do not understand why." - wadec

If you can lay hands on a copy of her building plans, you will see why. The backbone, framing, bottom planking, transom, and skeg are all spec'd to be white oak of quite large scantlings. These items alone account for over 800 lbs. Add the side planking, deck & framing, cabin, outfit, spars & sails, hardware, fastenings, people, beer, etc., and 5500 lbs is not that unrealistic. And before the pundits get all in a tizzy and start advocating lesser woods to shave off poundage, consider form stability and why these massive heavy timbers are used so low in the boat. Mr. Atkins was not a dilletante; such construction methods and materials did not happen by mere whim of ignorance.

[Jack Heinlen]

It's on the wooden boat rescue foundation 's site but it has that funky sky light so it must be the same one. Still keeping my fingers crossed. W

Same boat. It's difficult to say without looking at the boat, but it seemed large parts of the deck were going to need renewing, cabin uncertain.

Ya need a plan, my son. I think, from the sound of things, I'd hire a boat hauler rather than try to move it yourself. I'm guessing a grand, with current fuel prices. Unless you have, at least, a tow vehicle able to tow 6500 lbs. Then you need a place to work on the boat. A simple plastic shed will work, and will set you back, say, 600 USD.

Dreams like this sometimes dash hard on the rocks of cash. I hope that's not the case here. Free boats are never that.

It's a great boat! With a mast in a tabernacle you could take this boat all up and around, anyplace there is enough water to float her except open ocean. Great fun!

P.S. As I understand it, this boat could well be the original 'Shoreliner'. Re-rigged thusly,



you'd be sailing a piece of history. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Keep us posted. I hope it works out, and you venture in Shoreliner from rebuilding to grand shoalwater dreams.

[ 12-03-2004, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

[Jack Heinlen]

This,



from the boat rescue site, isn't Atkin's 'Shoreliner'. The bow isn't plumb. I don't know what it is. He's calling it a 'Shoreliner', but it isn't a 'Shoreliner'. FWIW.

[ 12-04-2004, 12:39 AM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

[John Bell]

I agree, Jack. Also, according Practical Small Boat Designs, SHORELINER's cabin sides are flush with the edge of the deck.

[wadec]

Well crap,
If it isn't a shoreliner then what is it? All that work on estimating weight just went out the window. I found that triple axle trailer in the weeds in La I was looking for. It even has an aluminum work boat I have to take to get the trailer. So one more project, oh well. The money is an issue but not yet. I have to admit I liked the Atkin boat but if it is not my interest might fade. I'll give the fellow from the site a chance to explain before I get worried. I still like the looks of this boat. But its a thousand mile trip for me and I need to be able to trust I'm getting what I expect. Thanks again, W

[holzbt]

This boat more closely resembles "NEW SISTER" which is a gaff rigged sister to "SHORELINER". She has some of the features of SHORELINER but more of NEW SISTERS' features. I think there were several variants drawn for clients who wanted minor changes. I think it highly likely that this is in fact a modified NEW SISTER.

[ 12-04-2004, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: holzbt ]

[Jack Heinlen]

wadec,

Don't lose heart yet. Holzbt may well be right. A different boat, but maybe a better one, in some ways. The offset bowsprit isn't in the original plans of New Sister, and there's no clipper bow, but that could well be a modification to plans.

A measure of LOD and beam would say much.

I know, I know, I was disappointed taking a closer look at the photographs last night. But she could still be a really good boat, and have that Atkin pedigree, even if not a 'Shoreliner'.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

[Venchka]

The aluminum work boat might be a keeper too. If it came from Hanko's in Morgan City, LA it is a real keeper. Bullet and bomb proof! Just about any south Louisiana/south Texas work boat built for the oil patch will be mega-stout.

Wayne
In the Swamp.

[holzbt]

If you like the boat why would you automatically reject it if it turns out not to be an Atkin design? It looks like a great boat for a modest investment. There are planty of really good boats built/designed by unknowns. Having said that I still think it's likely a NEW SISTER variant. Very few boats are built strictly to the plans. Invariably the owner/builder will have some better idea and change something along the way.

[Old Sailor]

How about getting some of our CT members to go take a look.
Old Sailor

[wadec]

Hey all,
I will not automatically reject the boat. My concern comes from wondering if I can trust the info I've gotten about her from the other site. This may very well be a honest mistake. I make them all the time. The other side of this is it is a long drive and a lot to do and I'm basing all this on information from someone I don't know. If anybody in Ct wants to go see her great. Or if you know anything about WBRF let me know. I am inclined to believe the best and think this is all a simple error. Just gonna wait and see. Did I mention someone has offered me what they think is a cypress planked 30' Higgins boat built before WW2. It is on the TO Do list for me. Not sure about the Higgens part yet, but a lot of the story seems to fit.
Stay wet, W

[Jack Heinlen]

wadec,

OEX is rescuing forlorn boats in his spare time. He's not, necessarily, researching their history. Here's what went down: "I've got this boat for your site. I think it's an Atkin 'Shoreliner, might even be the original." "Okay, send me the pics and I'll post it."

That said OEX has gone to some length to research Ben Bow, but that was out of personal interest more than a driving need to know the history of every boat he posts.

Personally, before I hauled any boat, free or not, home I'd want to either look it over in person, or have someone who knows a thing or two do it for me. So maybe one of our Connecticut members will volunteer an afternoon to go poke around, make a few measurements. Better do it soon, the winter will eventually come to NE and the boat will be covered in snow.

[jasonmcgrath]

I have a shoreliner down here in Tasmania. she is over three tons maby even three and a half (we use metric down here ) I know this is a old article but I would love to hear from an other owner of a boat like this. my boat is only ten years old and built out of our native timbers. Jason

[johngsandusky]

Jason, there's an Atkin forum on Yahoo too.