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Thread: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

  1. #1
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    Default Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Hello, this is my first post.
    I have always been fascinated by the idea of the one sheet boat, although it is doubtful whether such a thing makes sense at all. There are some nice designs and thoughts about it at Hannu's boatyard. http://koti.kapsi.fi/hvartial/index.htm

    Now I have made a design of my own and want to present it to you. The name of the design is "Little Guide". It is a one sheet canoe about the size of the Wee Lassie.


    1:10 scale model



    linesplan


    layout for 8' x 4' plywood sheet 4mm


    scheme for assembly

    Beam
    Specificationes:

    LOA 11,8'
    Beam 28"
    Beam on waterline 23"
    Centre depth 9"
    Draft 3,5"
    Displacement 210 lbs
    Weight 28 lbs

    As you can see the potential of this boat is limited. But I think in very protected waters, on a day when you don't mind to take a swim, it could be fun to mess around with it.
    Last edited by flo-mo; 08-20-2010 at 05:14 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    You just need a pair of 'em. Strap one on each foot like snowshoes.
    If this post did not meet all of your needs, please consult this thread for more options.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    I like it!! Has more aesthetic appeal than the 6hr canoe I made years back... and would be a a barrel of fun just as she was!!! Good on yer!!!
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    I like it. But I'm 30 lbs over!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    If you think this boat is too small for you, just look at it from the right position.

    From foreground to background:

    One sheet canoe "Little Guide" 11,8'
    Plywood canoe Hiawatha 15'
    Plywood canoe Prospector 16'


    It also gets larger if you scale down the paddler:
    In front "Little Guide" 11,8'
    in the background Hiawathwa 15'

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    That is a very, very, elegant little boat - might suit a paddler up to what, 120/130lbs?

    Have you a list of point to plot on an 8'x4' sheet so as to generate the panel shapes?
    Public Domain design?

    Nice.
    Even when they work, they don't work well. I blame engineers.
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    its neat! i like it. and great to get the young ones out on the water. well done!

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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Well done - I cant imagine anyone beating that for a one sheet boat. No waste and a stylish, elegant stitch and glue canoe too.
    I have one slightly larger and am constantly surprised by how capable such little boats can be. Not fast but lots of fun in small waters.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe


    Without any standard of comparison you could think it is a grown up canoe.


    ©Schiffleitner
    But with a paddler with a weight of 180 lbs the boat has almost reached it's maximum capacity.
    Last edited by flo-mo; 11-10-2010 at 08:54 AM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Very Nice...Looks like something I might use in the tiny lake that is in a local nature park. Like the man said above...would you happen to have offsets for the panels that you would be willing to share? That looks like freeship (or delftship)...how did you split up the planking to get it to nest like that? Did you export it to a different program or did you figure out a way of doing it in FS/DS?
    Steve Lewis
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    One of the best one sheet designs I've seen.

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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    I second the request for offsets that is a pretty little boat

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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    The inspiration for this design is Michael Storer's Eureka canoe. http://www.storerboatplans.com/Eureka/Eurekacanoes.html
    When I tried to design something similar, I realised that the panels of a small version might fit on a single sheet of plywood.
    I used a CAD progamme for nesting the panels. Then I built a scale model to see if it is developable, changed it a little bit, built another model..... until I was pleased with the result. I took the lines of the final model and did some calculationes with freeship before I actually built it.


    ©Schiffleitner
    I'm quite happy with the characteristics of the boat, although it takes some skill to handle it because of it's narrow beam on waterline (23") and the resulting low stability. It helps to be seated low. Children with thier lower center of gravity will feel more comfortable than adults. Because length on waterline is nearly the same as LAO and the small amount of rocker, directional stability is very good. This reduces maneuverability but with a double paddle it is easy to control. Of course the light weight (28 lbs) is the greatest benefit of a canoe of this size.

    I would be glad to see someone else building this boat and I am willing to share the offsets. It will take some time for me to work it out so I can be sure it will be understandable. I also plan to post some pictures showing how I built the boat.

    Regards,
    Stefan
    Last edited by flo-mo; 11-10-2010 at 08:51 AM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    The prettiest one sheet boat I've ever seen. I would build one with my son in an instant. Oh, and, uh, nice build, by the way. Very nice stitching and gluing, sir.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe


    This is my Armada of one sheet boat scale models. Some of them represent different stages of one design.



    These are the designs that I considere worth building. The only one I have actually built is the one up right.





    A boat needs a captain

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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Beautiful lines. Make one twice the dimensions and you've got a winner.

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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe



    Can you tell us more about the pram, the foremost one, without a rower, in the photo?

    I am looking for a small very light tender, and this looks like it might fit the bill.

    Thank you.

    Your models are very well thought out and nicely made.
    Steve Martinsen

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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe


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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Looking at the glued-up panels, it looks like it could be made as a "folds flat" canoe. Use long strips of poly hinge to join the five panels, then, say, bolts through a pair of internal stems and a pair of ribs to hold it open.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Flo mo I am really impressed by that flickr building page you set up. keep it up!

    BTW I have been really wanting to design my own canoe in stitch and glue using CAD, but I'm having difficulty transferring the curved panels to a sheet of flat ply. I have been using google sketchup (I know it's not designed for boats but it's so user friendly). I tried Hulls, but can't figure out how to get the dimensions of the panels onto flat ply. Would you mind explaining which program you use and how you transfer the panel dimensions to ply?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    @SMARTINSEN

    Thank you for your kind words but I am sorry to disappoint you. Although this design could be built it would be realy difficult. It should be made of 6mm ply and there will be enormous twist in these short planks. Even with the model it was hard to get everything in shape. I am also not quite satisfied with the design. It has too little rocker, so at desiged waterline bow and stern transom are not completely out of the water.

    Nevertheless here is some more information (weigth only estimated):



    PS: You could print out the panels and try to make a cardboard model and see if you like the design.
    Last edited by flo-mo; 07-26-2010 at 03:33 PM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    @peterchech

    I am using prosurf for developing the plates. Then I export them as dxf-file and proceed with autocad.
    I am using a prosurf demo-version. It is the complet program but savings are limited to 25 times. Also up- and down-loads are decremented. There are also prochine and probasic which are the same progam with some restrictions. With all three programs together you have a total of 75 savings. After that the program still works but without the ability to save any changings and you can not up- or download any longer. It took some time for me to be able to work with it, but now it is a very useful tool.

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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    I know it defeats the one sheet concept, but rather than a canoe, it looks like adding a deck - it would make a heck of a cute kayak.
    Which comes first," someone asked Ira Gershwin, "the words or the music?" "The contract," said Gershwin.



  24. #24
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    I'm impressed. I built a one sheet flat bottomed dinghy some years ago that turned out quite well. I should hunt it up. If I remember it came from an article in Practical Boat Owner.
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    That's a perfect design for a CNC kit project. A really nice boat that could be sold in kit form for a very reasonable price. I like the size, too. Very handy.

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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Cool - I like the canoe and I like your models! The little double ender, with the rower, is pretty neat, too.

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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    I am struck by your wee boat, beautiful in its simplicity. It will be interesting to watch the design develop. How are your marketing skills? Best of luck to you, keep on posting.
    Sail, blog, eat, sleep:
    http://www.seawardadventures.com

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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Quite remarkable ...I'm very impressed !
    Try to work out what the marketing guy wants you to do then do precisely the opposite.

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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    I think we all want the set of offsets don't we? It's a great simple design - please post the offsets! Rick

    PS Yes, the build looks great - well done!!

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Me too on the offsets. I am really impressed with your taking the whole idea of a one sheet baot to a new level.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    I've seen many variations on this, but the nesting is fantastic (clever 2 part bottom forward), the boat comes out with nice lines, and that is one of the best series of end-to-end construction photos I have seen, very clean work. I love the shot of the "waste material" from the original sheet.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    My...sounds like you have a winner! I haven't seen this much interest in a tiny design since Gavin Atkins' Mouse and the PDRs.
    Steve Lewis
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Seems you have quite a fan base on the forum. All your models have great lines and if you ever decide to do something that maximizes 2 sheets I would be very interested. One sheet boats are just a little small for me. I am 6'3 and 225. But if you ever scale up that double ender I would love to see plans.

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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Too small for me, too. Looks like a great watertoy. Scale it up to 5'x10', if you could find such a sheet these days. The top two panels might be put on a second sheet, and all of them widened proportionally, so you'd get -maybe- three chubbier canoes from four sheets. Kind of like the "Ruben's Punt".

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    As promised here are the offsets.

    First some explanatory words.
    To reduce waste to a minimum I cut the panels with a knive. This means cut thickness is zero and makes very accurat edges. Most of the cuts produce the edges of two panels so each mistake effects both sides.
    Cuting 4mm okoume plywood with a knife takes some consideration. Make a cut on both sides of the plywood sheet with superimposing lines. This can be achieved by drilling holes rightangled to the sheet with a 1mm drill bit at each offset point to transfer it to the other side. First make a slight cut using the fairing batten as a ruler and pay attention that the grain of the top veneer does not misguide you. Then with more pressure a second cut is guided by the first one and will eventually already go through the top veneer. If not a third or forth cut is needed that will also cut the first fibres of the inner vener.
    Then do the same on the other side. After that bend the plywood sheet cautiously along the line and the last fibres of the inner venner will give in.
    This is a complicated procedure but it is the price for minimum waste. Feel free to do it different but this is the way I did it.

    The given numbers in the offsets are metric and the dimension is millimeter. This means a plywood sheet 4' x 8' is equal to 1220mm x 2440mm. The plywood sheet should have straight edges and rectangular corners.

    You only need the offsets of four lines. These are drawn red whereas the black lines can be produced by using parts previously cut as templates.
    The first cut follows a straight line parallel to the longer edge of the sheet. Now you have two pieces. One 876mm x 2440mm and a smaller one 344mm x 2440mm.
    Proceed with the smaller one and make a cut as the red line in the drawing indicates. Then use this part as template to produce the twin panel from the rest of the smaller piece. The dash-dotted line indicates the middle of the panel. This is important later on as assembly starts from the middle. The dashed line indicates which part is used as a template for the rest of the panel on the larger piece of plywood.
    Now take the larger piece and first make a cut indicated by the red line next to the longitudinally middle line and curve of the bow/stern. Use the resulting smaller part as template to produce the cut symetrically to the prior one and you have the larger part of the bottom panel.
    Now cut along the fourth and last red line and do as described as above.
    The missing smaller parts of the panels can be created by using the parts already cut as templates again.

    This was hard work for me as English is not my first language as you might have already notice and I do not know if it makes things any clearer. But maybe the drawings and the pictures will help. Once again the link to the slideshow of my build:http://www.flickr.com/photos/flo-mo/...7620531428419/



    Please be sure to know the characteristics of this boat before you start building so you are not disappointed in the end. This is a very small boat and it is more like a kayak than a canoe and it requires some skill to paddle it. As it is not decked you should only use it in very, very protected waters. To be on the save side I would say capacity is about 150lbs. If you still want to build it go for it and have fun.

    Regards
    Stefan

  36. #36
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Thanks for sharing this with us Stefan.

    I designed a one-sheet dory style boat and drew up the lines and offsets to enable it to be reproduced and I know there's a fair bit of effort involved, especially in finding space for all the dimensions on the drawing, and your canoe has twice as many parts.

    I'd love to have a go at building this with my son this summer.

  37. #37
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe


    A picture of the shape of the curve for the stem with a 10mm grid

  38. #38
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Stefan, a very generous post. The great late Phil Bolger used to see how much he could get out of a sheet or two of ply, but never did he suggest cutting with a knife to reduce waste. Most remarkable. And, come to think of it, it's a quiet way to work, keeps the air dust-free and saves vacuuming.

  39. #39
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    For a while I played with making the cuts at a 45º angle, gaining a bit over 1/4" per cut with a 1/16" sawkerf in quarter-inch plywood.

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    This is the text from post #36 with some pictures attached. As you are allowed to insert only 6 pictures in one post it will require several posts.


    First some explanatory words.
    To reduce waste to a minimum I cut the panels with a knive. This means cut thickness is zero and makes very accurat edges. Most of the cuts produce the edges of two panels at one time so each mistake effects both sides.



    Cuting 4mm okoume plywood with a knife takes some consideration. Make a cut on both sides of the plywood sheet with superimposing lines. This can be achieved by drilling holes rightangled to the sheet with a 1mm drill bit at each offset point to transfer it to the other side.



    First make a slight cut using the fairing batten as a ruler and pay attention that the grain of the top veneer does not misguide you.




    Then with more pressure a second cut is guided by the first one and will eventually already go through the top veneer. If not a third or forth cut is needed that will also cut the first fibres of the inner venner.



    Then do the same on the other side. After that bend the plywood sheet cautiously along the line and the last fibres of the inner venner will give in.

    This is a complicated procedure but it is the price for minimum waste. Feel free to do it different but this is the way I did it.
    Last edited by flo-mo; 08-03-2010 at 06:18 AM.

  41. #41
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe


    The given numbers in the offsets are metric and the dimension is millimeter. This means a plywood sheet 4' x 8' is equal to 1220mm x 2440mm. The plywood sheet should have straight edges and rectangular corners.You only need the offsets of four lines. These are drawn red whereas the black lines can be produced by using parts previously cut as templates.



    The first cut follows a straight line parallel to the longer edge of the sheet. Now you have two pieces. One 876mm x 2440mm and a smaller one 344mm x 2440mm.



    Proceed with the smaller one and make a cut as the red line in the drawing indicates. Then use this part as template to produce the twin panel from the rest of the smaller piece. The dash-dotted line indicates the middle of the panel. This is important later on as assembly starts from the middle. The dashed line indicates which part is used as a template for the rest of the panel on the larger piece of plywood.



    Now take the larger piece and first make a cut indicated by the red line next to the longitudinally middle line and curve of the stem.




    Use the resulting smaller part as template to produce the cut symetrically to the prior one and you have the larger part of the bottom panel.

  42. #42
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe


    Now cut along the fourth and last red line and do as described as above.



    The missing smaller parts of the panels can again be created by using the parts already cut as templates.



    next step



    nice puzzle



    waste



    panels

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Wow.
    Which comes first," someone asked Ira Gershwin, "the words or the music?" "The contract," said Gershwin.



  44. #44
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Wow is right! You have designed the nicest one-sheet boat I've ever come across. Thanks for sharing.

    You can definitely see the Eureka design's influence. I hope you've shared this with Storer. He would be very proud and impressed.
    Goat Island Skiff and Simmons Sea Skiff construction photos here:

    http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w...esMan/?start=0

    and here:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/37973275@N03/

    "All kings are not the same."

  45. #45
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    This is brilliant as well as generous Stefan! Thanks very much! Now I just have to find a way of saving this thread so it doesn't disappear by the time I get around to building this lovely little boat!! I also look forward to seeing what you'll build with that neat little pile of waste!! Rick

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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Excellent little boat in its own right. Apart from its obvious cost efficiency (to make or sell as a pre cut kit) there is a unique application for one sheet boats for amateur wooden boat builders...this must be the best use for that remaining sheet of plywood, left over from a bigger build.

  47. #47
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    AMAZING. I love the way it takes shape in the photos... and how your "boatyard" moves from one room to the next!

    Was it necessary to glass (in German - "Leichentuch") over the interior completely? Mirrors, which are usually only epoxied, develop rot in the interior layers of the plywood when the epoxy develops micro-cracks. Wouldn't taping the seams and a conventional flexible clear varnish be a more long-lived?

    Two of these hulls, decked over and joined together, would make a super mini-catamaran.

    Thanks for the post!

    Gernot H.

  48. #48
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    The little boats are very beautiful. I already experience riding a boat, it really scares me.

  49. #49
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Use your browser and go to file save as entire web page...it will save pictures and all. You should end up with a folder with the pictures and an html page with the coding.
    Steve Lewis
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  50. #50
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    Default Re: Little Guide - a one sheet canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by flo-mo View Post
    The inspiration for this design is Michael Storer's Eureka canoe.

    http://www.storerboatplans.com/Eureka/Eurekacanoes.html

    When I tried to design something similar, I realised that the panels of a small version might fit on a single sheet of plywood.
    Regards,
    Stefan
    Thanks for putting the link to the Eureka Canoe up Stefan.

    Nice that it preserves the original good looks of the 15.5ft Eureka. I worked really hard at that aspect. Also to get the fine-ness in the ends that a good canoe needs to go straight when the wind and waves get up.





    I have to put a link to flickr for the user agreement - lots more eureka pics here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik...7604717277238/ ... blah blah.

    But the small size makes your smaller version somewhat jewel like.

    I did have a shorter Eureka that came first, but it was a bit twitchy with two adults aboard - a 13 footer. Learned a lot about the stability effect of rocker - it moves the payload a fraction deeper in the boat and also means, expressed roughly, that the more stable mid body of the boat carries a bigger proportion of the weight.

    If you put in a bit more rocker it would help the stability characteristics - that's the way I went with the second (and final Eureka). I don't promise it will help a lot ... but it will help.

    The big struggle with the Eureka was to get the panels to work right to produce the shape I wanted. There were lots of hours in that part of the plan development. But it goes together really well, but took quite a few iterations to get there - builders always find something interesting when building! Preserving the design shape was the hardest part of the design process.

    Best wishes
    Michael
    Last edited by Boatmik; 08-17-2010 at 06:09 PM.

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