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Thread: Cadillac?

  1. #1
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    Default Cadillac?

    Hello everyone, the name's Justin. I live in rural Wisconsin, near Madison. Just picked up this little boat that I plan to renovate with a few custom parts. It's in great shape except for a few areas. The hull is solid.


    Thing is, I have no idea who made this boat! Maybe you guys can help me out. The previous owner has no idea and the owner before him didn't either.

    It's 14 feet long and about 5' 6" wide. It has this on the inside.


    In my research I found that Cadillac did in fact make boats at one time, but those were aluminum or fiberglass as far as I can find.

    There is also a sticker on the transom that I can't quite make out. It might say Anderson Marine and Sport, and Chicago, Ill. Here's a bad picture of that.


    The hull is 1/4" ply and there's very little structure inside, but feels very sturdy.

    Anyway, this is my first go at a wooden boat. I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions but I feel very confident and excited about this. I've all the loose paint and varnish scraped off and am going at it with power tools now. I have the port outer hull cleaned and sanded and it looks really nice. I also have it mostly gutted, the front deck off and other bits and pieces.

    Here are some pictures of how it looked when I got her home.







    Thanks for looking!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    It may be a silly question, but what does the title say? There's a HIN on the boat, and an Illinois registration number, so the DMV must have "some" record.

    Nice looking runabout, too.

    Edit..... If you are near Madison, then you are also near the town of Cadillac, so maybe that's all it means?

    Richard

    EDIT... Oh, and here's an actual Cadillac boat :


    Richard
    Last edited by rickinnocal; 07-14-2010 at 04:46 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Looks like it has potential! Nice find!

    That HIN is one that was assigned by the State of Illinois to a hull built before 13-digit HIN's were required.

    I don't know anything about Cadillac boats. I assume the title (if it has one) doesn't state a manufacturer.

    Maybe "Cadillac" is a name given the boat by a previous owner???

    Wayne

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Thanks Richard.Not a silly question but no title. I guess I could contact the Ill DMV. I actually had no idea what HIN meant. I thought it was just part of the model #!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Wayne, very probable that someone stuck those on there. Must have been a big Caddy fan!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Love the real Cadillac boat!

    Now that I know what HIN means, I found on uscgboating.org that it is a "ILLINOIS HOMEMADE BOAT". I'm guessing in 84 because of the last 4 numbers.

    Here are a few progress shots.




    The decking is loose, I jsut have it on for a place to keep it.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marsh Mellow View Post
    . . . Now that I know what HIN means, I found on uscgboating.org that it is a "ILLINOIS HOMEMADE BOAT". I'm guessing in 84 because of the last 4 numbers. . .
    The first three letters of the Hull Identification Number (HIN) are the USCG manufacturer’s code. When the third letter is a Z, the first two letters will designate the state which assigned the number. ILZ = Illinois assigned number, OHZ = Ohio assigned number, etc. But it is not homemade boats only.

    The states assign them to homemade boats, but also now to any boat built before the requirement for 12-digit numbers came into effect and which does not already have such a number. I think they only started doing the latter because of some law enacted after 9/11/01. I have both kinds registered here in Ohio, homemade and a 1962-vintage Comet made by Beaton Bros. in NJ, all with state assigned HIN’s starting with OHZ.

    I don’t think the USCG format for manufacturer-assigned HIN’s and the codes contained therein apply to state-assigned numbers.

    Wayne

  8. #8

    Default Re: Cadillac?

    All right folks. You should think before you write. This poor guy posts an inquiry and you jump all over him. For shame.

    There WAS a boat manufacturer with the name "Cadillac". It was in no way affiliated with the automobile maker. Cadillac Marine & Boat Company was located at, where else, Cadillac, Michigan. They made molded veneer wooden boats.

    In fact, General Motors filed a lawsuit against Cadillac Marine & Boat Co. claiming the auto maker had rights to the name "Cadillac" and they wanted the boat builder to cease and dissist using the name. In 1964 a federal court slapped the automaker's hands and said they did not have a monopoly on the name Cadillac. GM was ordered to pay $41,000 to the boat maker for legal fees and loss of reputation.

    Now, just because someone put the "14 Ft Cadillac" decal/letters on the inside of the boat does not necessarily mean it is indeed a Cadillac. But that is pretty strong evidence. And yes, the hull ID "ILZ..." is a sate of Illinois assigned ID. It has nothing to do with the boat builder. This one was assigned to the boat in 1984. Again, it has nothing to do with the year of the boat or the manufacturer.

    There is a chapter on Cadillac boats in Volume IV of "The Real Runabouts" book by Mr. Bob Speltz. Check your local library for a copy or borrow it thru Inter Library Loan.

    I am not sure off the top of my head but there may be some Cadillac boat literature at www.fiberglassics.com in the Classic Library section.

    I suggest getting involved with the two chapters of the Antique & Classic Boat Society (www.acbs.org) that cover the Madison, WI area: Glacial Lakes and Blackhawk. There is an antique & classic boat show at Christi's Landing on Lake Waubesa near Madison on 6-7 August. Go to this show and start networking. I will most likely be there with one of my vintage boats. There is another classic boat show at The Abbey in Fontana on Geneva Lake 25-26 September. There is a show in Pewaukee coming up soon as well.

    Good luck and feel free to contact me directly: thompsonboat@msn.com

    Andreas

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Andreas,
    I don't normally post on here due to some of the rabbit holes we seem to want to run down. But I have to tell you, that was a squared away answer. You're my new hero.
    David

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Andreas, thank you for the wealth of info, very, very interesting. My wife shall be looking for Speltz's book tomorrow.

    I spoke with the head man at Work Bench Tool on Madison's west side. They sell woodworking tools but also cut custom mouldings and trim. I need a strange piece for this boat but he didn't have any knives for what I need so he refered me to another shop on the south east side. I forget the name right now but he said a man there was a leading person in classic boat rings. Aparently they also sell marine plywood and old boat mouldings. Sounds like a good source, when I get a chance to get there.

    I know Christi's Landing. I'll have to make it a point to make time to get there.

    P.S. I don't think anyone was jumping on me, just giving info they have. No biggie.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Contact the Antique and Classic Boat Society in Clayton, N.Y. For a fee, they'll do research on your boat to track it down. I have an old PennYan and they where able to tell me the year and model from just a picture. Good luck with it. Rebuilding those old runabouts is fun.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Looks like a fun project you've gotten. Some one should mow that lawn across the street from you before it gets to high to deal with.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert W. Long View Post
    Some one should mow that lawn across the street from you before it gets to high to deal with.
    Now that was a corny joke...

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Now that was a corny joke...
    I promise, there's a future in comedy for some of you folks

  15. #15

    Default Re: Cadillac?

    I was not aware that the Antique & Classic Boat Society headquarters at Clayton, NY did research for people. I kinda doubt it actually. They may refer an inquiry to someone with knowledge about that particular brand or style. I have been a member for 12+ years and have never heard of such a service being offered.

    Maybe the Antique Boat Museum at Clayton, which a completely separate entity from the Antique & Classic Boat Society, will do some basic research.

    MarshMellow - I am aware of a professional boat restorer on Farmco Road near the Madison airport. Don't know of one on the southeast side, but that doesn't mean there isn't one on that side of town. Larry Lange of Lange's Custom Woodworking at Lake Geneva is a well respected restorer of classic wooden runabouts.

    A great deal of wooden boat restoration is making due with what you have, as far as tools go, and improvising to replicate some piece needed in the restoration. That's part of the fun of it! I have used router and belt sander creatively to replicate a piece. Who needs a band saw!!!

    Andreas
    Last edited by AndreasJordahlRhude; 07-16-2010 at 07:41 AM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    I think the name of the place is McCormic something, but it might just be a lumber yard. I haven't been there yet.

    After working on many old buildings, improvising is the name of the game! I just have two pieces of trim that are back cut. They look like 1/4 moons in profile. I need the concaved back to work around the bow. I know I can make something work if I can't find what I want, but I like what was on it.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Cadillac?

    I did some more digging into the history of Cadillac Marine & Boat Co. of Cadillac, Michigan. They started in September 1953 as a wholly owned subsidiary of Wagemaker Company (Grand Rapids, MI). Wagemaker also owned U.S. Molded Shapes, Inc. of Grand Rapids, MI. Raymond O. Wagemaker was president of all these firms.

    Cadillac made aluminum boats. US Molded Shapes made molded veneer boat hulls for Wagemaker which finished them and marketed the boats as Wagemaker Wolverine. Wagemaker branded some of the wooden boats they made as "Cadillac" to get more shelf space, so to speak. U.S. Molded Shapes, Inc. aslo made boat hulls for many other boat builders.

    Wagemaker Company started Empire Boats, Inc. of Frankfort, NY in 1955.

    A $750,000 fire wiped out the Wagemaker plant at Grand Rapids circa February 1957. A great deal of production of wooden boats was shifted to Cadillac Marine and Boat Co. In 1959 Cadillac added fiberglass boats to their product line.

    On 15 April 1960 Ray Wagemaker sold all his boat operations to three men: Walter E. Schottt, Jr.; Charles J. Schott; and Harrison O. Ash. The Schott's also owned Lyman Boat Works of Sandusky, Ohio. Operations of Wagemaker Wolverine and U.S. Molded Shapes were shifted to Cadillac Marine & Boat Co. after a $250,000 fire hit the U.S. Molded Shapes plant about 23 April 1960, just days after the sale. Harrison Ash gained complete control of Wagemaker, Cadillac, and U.S. Molded Shapes in April 1961. He changed the company names to Ash-Craft Company.

    Ash was attempting to move all the boat production to West Virginia under another one of his firm umbrellas, New-Kanawha Industrial Corp. in 1961. On 02 November 1962 all the firms owned by Ash filed for bankruptcy.

    I cannot determine if boats were ever built in West Virginia. I do not know when boats were no longer being built at Cadillac, Michigan.

    When the fedarl court awarded "Cadillac Marine and Boat Co." the $41,000 in 1964 in the failed suit brought by General Motors, I don't know who got that money. Was it Mr. Ash or was there a corporate shell of Cadillac Marine still around or did it go to the bankruptcy refree or trustee??????

    Andreas

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marsh Mellow View Post
    I think the name of the place is McCormic something, but it might just be a lumber yard. I haven't been there yet.

    After working on many old buildings, improvising is the name of the game! I just have two pieces of trim that are back cut. They look like 1/4 moons in profile. I need the concaved back to work around the bow. I know I can make something work if I can't find what I want, but I like what was on it.
    Hey Marsh.

    Yep, McCormick lumber. They do, in fact, carry a small selection of marine ply. Nice guys but typically they have to place an order... I hope you can just waltz in and out with what you need, but I wouldn't be the boat on it.

    I'm anxious to see your boat progress! It looks like you've made a nice start.

    Something about your neighbor's "yard" looks mighty familiar.
    -sos

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasJordahlRhude View Post
    I did some more digging into the history of Cadillac Marine & Boat Co. of Cadillac, Michigan. They started in September 1953 as a wholly owned subsidiary of Wagemaker Company (Grand Rapids, MI). Wagemaker also owned U.S. Molded Shapes, Inc. of Grand Rapids, MI. Raymond O. Wagemaker was president of all these firms.

    Cadillac made aluminum boats. US Molded Shapes made molded veneer boat hulls for Wagemaker which finished them and marketed the boats as Wagemaker Wolverine. Wagemaker branded some of the wooden boats they made as "Cadillac" to get more shelf space, so to speak. U.S. Molded Shapes, Inc. aslo made boat hulls for many other boat builders.

    Wagemaker Company started Empire Boats, Inc. of Frankfort, NY in 1955.

    A $750,000 fire wiped out the Wagemaker plant at Grand Rapids circa February 1957. A great deal of production of wooden boats was shifted to Cadillac Marine and Boat Co. In 1959 Cadillac added fiberglass boats to their product line.

    On 15 April 1960 Ray Wagemaker sold all his boat operations to three men: Walter E. Schottt, Jr.; Charles J. Schott; and Harrison O. Ash. The Schott's also owned Lyman Boat Works of Sandusky, Ohio. Operations of Wagemaker Wolverine and U.S. Molded Shapes were shifted to Cadillac Marine & Boat Co. after a $250,000 fire hit the U.S. Molded Shapes plant about 23 April 1960, just days after the sale. Harrison Ash gained complete control of Wagemaker, Cadillac, and U.S. Molded Shapes in April 1961. He changed the company names to Ash-Craft Company.

    Ash was attempting to move all the boat production to West Virginia under another one of his firm umbrellas, New-Kanawha Industrial Corp. in 1961. On 02 November 1962 all the firms owned by Ash filed for bankruptcy.

    I cannot determine if boats were ever built in West Virginia. I do not know when boats were no longer being built at Cadillac, Michigan.

    When the fedarl court awarded "Cadillac Marine and Boat Co." the $41,000 in 1964 in the failed suit brought by General Motors, I don't know who got that money. Was it Mr. Ash or was there a corporate shell of Cadillac Marine still around or did it go to the bankruptcy refree or trustee??????

    Andreas
    Andreas, I can't thank you enough for the research you've done. You had way more luck than I've had!

    Your previous info and links gave me comfidence that this was a Cadillac but now I think I can be sure. The year is still a mystery but it's close enough!

    Here's what I found the other day inside the hull.


    Looks like "Molded Shapes" to me. This and some other evidence from your links above is pretty solid.

    Or, through a string a strange occurances and coincidences, it's some other brand that ended up looking like a Cadillac.

    Again, thank you very much. Your info is very helpful and interesting. It's great to learn some history of the different companies.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottO12_3 View Post
    Hey Marsh.

    Yep, McCormick lumber. They do, in fact, carry a small selection of marine ply. Nice guys but typically they have to place an order... I hope you can just waltz in and out with what you need, but I wouldn't be the boat on it.

    I'm anxious to see your boat progress! It looks like you've made a nice start.

    Something about your neighbor's "yard" looks mighty familiar.
    -sos

    I was able to make it there today but I missed them by 6 @#$%&* minutes. Grr...

    I found some ply on-line but I prefere to keep the sale local. I also need to see if they can help me with that funny trim I need.

    Progress hasn't gone too much further. I've been jsut beat from work and the warm humid weather just takes it outa me. Here are a couple shots of where I am at now.





    A little more finish sanded off and some more parts stripped out. I'm getting there!

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Well, now is the time I'd like to start asking you all about finishes and repairs and such. I still have a ways to go but I need to know how much further I need to take this apart. I'll ask for each specific areas I have questions about, that way anyone in the know can answer for that area. I know this has all been discussed to death, but I've been researching for two day and there are just so many options and opinions, I'm at a loss. Also, please forgive my ignorance of boat terms but I am trying.

    I'll start with the bottom and keel. The forward part of the keel seems to be part of the hull and in great shape. Where the bottom straightens out is a screwed on piece and needs fixing. Here's a shot.


    It doesn't seem to be rotted, just compromised at the seal, maybe some fungus. It's going to be painted below water-line again so what can I do here? What can I use to reseal it to the hull and fill in any voids and screw hole?

    What should I use to paint the hull below water-line? It will need to be faired(?) also, what to use for that?

    Next, the transom. It's in good shape too but the seal to the hull needs something. I'd like the wood to show through here and on the entire hull above water-line so what can I use to seal here and still allow the wood to show through? Here's a shot of transon to hull.



    Obviously I need to clean it out more.


    Next, some spots of rot.

    hull and gunwale


    inside center-line


    Here's the only really bad spot. Transom upper left corner.


    to be continued...

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    That's a nice boat. Don't put some huge outboard on her. A moderate 25 to 35 hp will do fine.
    “So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    There is slight rot along the side of these runners along the bottom in areas. Don't know whats under them but they sound and feel solid.


    I'm thinking CPES to stabilize the wood? Then fill it with? I'd like it to blend with the finished wood if possible.

    There's a lot of staining inside. Sanding will take care of a lot of it but what about the deeper stains like the oil or diesel near the transom?

    How do I seal all the seams inside? Like the hull to transom and verious parts of the transon? Those runners along the bottom? What will allow the wood to show through?

    Where is bedding compound needed? Should I seal all surfaces of wood parts where they meet other wood parts?

    What to use for filling screw holes? Some of the screws I'd like to leave exposed above water-line. Is that possible?

    Now the finish inside and out. Just use varnish? I like the dark exteriour hull and other various parts with a lighter interior. Is that stain or part of the varnish? Something like this.


    Whew, that's a lot of questions. I really appreciate any and all advise from you guys. As I said earlier, I've done a lot of research but there are just so many options and opinions that it get's to be quite confusing adn I want to do this right.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    That's a nice boat. Don't put some huge outboard on her. A moderate 25 to 35 hp will do fine.
    I was thinking the same thing. The plate inside says 40 hp max anyway.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Cadillac?

    I can see "US Molded Shapes" stamped into the keelson of the boat. Cool to know her origin!

    The outside of the hull was stained and varnished. The inside was probably just varnished, no stain. That's pretty common on small speed boats. Use marine spar varnish. Do not use polyurethane.

    Famowood is a good filler for screw holes. It can be stained.

    Any good quality marine paint is good for the bottom. If the boat will sit in the water all summer, you want to use an anti-fouling bottom paint. But if she's trailered, just use any topsides paint.

    To me it looks like decay in the outer keel where it butts up with the outer stem. If so, the wood needs to be replaced. Tossing some goop at it is not the answer.

    Appears as if the fasteners from hullsides and bottom to transom are loose. They need to be tightened. Or new ones installed. Clean out all the old goop, loose up the extisting screws and retighten or install new ones.

    You need to remove all that rotten wood in the upper port side of the transom and replace with new wood. You can make a "dutchman" patch. Pouring googe in there is not the answer.

    Andreas

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Marsh Mellow,
    Well welcome to the forum, fine looking boat. Happy to see a old wooden boat being cared for, congratulations.
    Just a few observations.
    You say that the the hull is 1/4" ply and not much framing, yet very stout. From what I can see from your photos (though not too clear to me) it seems more like multiple layers of solid, thin, wood, lapstrake on the bottom over that and some fine craftsmanship.
    You need to be sure before getting materials for repair.
    What AJR says is good information, try to replace with what was originally done and same materials, as opposed to filling and patching.
    For example, if there is no transom framing, than it is most probably built of multiple layers of thin planking, or a couple layers of thick (3/8-3/4") ply and glued and screwed to the planking. If so, you might remove the fastenings, run a saw down the joint, and (gulp) remove the entire transom, making it easier to repair, clean out the faying surfaces (joint surfaces) and epoxy back together. Same approach with the outer keel as AJR says: remove and repair/replace.
    Sounds drastic, but is usually cheaper and easier(?) in the long run.
    Also, you already know this, but if it is 1/4" ply, that outer veneer is way thin, be careful not to sand through.
    Just my 2 cents and probably worth every penny.
    Best of luck, keep up the energy, and keep us updated (and stay out of the Bilge).

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    I see a few other madison guys here, so I thought I would pop my head in on this thread. I live in Oregon, wi.

    Cool boat!

    Also, if you end up having to pay a shipping charge for plywood please let me know because I need some too. Shipping could be split up between us. Keep this updated and let me know where you get your ply from. I am itching to work on my thompson!

  28. #28

    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Hey E (240sxguy),

    Glad to see you pop in here! I most likely will be attending the Glacial Lakes chapter ACBS show at Lake Waubesa 06-07 August. Probably bringing my '55 Thompson 14 ft. Thomboy. I have a family event that same weekend NW of Madison. So after the show on Saturday I'll be heading out to join the bickering bickersons, I mean the family. Maybe we can meet? I'd like to see your boat.

    Andreas
    thompsonboat at msn.com

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Andreas, that would be fantastic! Ill send you a PM directly with my phone number and information. I would like to attend the show actually, I guess I need to pay closer attention. Always so much stuff going on around these parts.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasJordahlRhude View Post
    I can see "US Molded Shapes" stamped into the keelson of the boat. Cool to know her origin!

    The outside of the hull was stained and varnished. The inside was probably just varnished, no stain. That's pretty common on small speed boats. Use marine spar varnish. Do not use polyurethane.

    Famowood is a good filler for screw holes. It can be stained.

    Any good quality marine paint is good for the bottom. If the boat will sit in the water all summer, you want to use an anti-fouling bottom paint. But if she's trailered, just use any topsides paint.

    To me it looks like decay in the outer keel where it butts up with the outer stem. If so, the wood needs to be replaced. Tossing some goop at it is not the answer.

    Appears as if the fasteners from hullsides and bottom to transom are loose. They need to be tightened. Or new ones installed. Clean out all the old goop, loose up the extisting screws and retighten or install new ones.

    You need to remove all that rotten wood in the upper port side of the transom and replace with new wood. You can make a "dutchman" patch. Pouring googe in there is not the answer.

    Andreas
    Quote Originally Posted by jackster View Post
    Marsh Mellow,
    Well welcome to the forum, fine looking boat. Happy to see a old wooden boat being cared for, congratulations.
    Just a few observations.
    You say that the the hull is 1/4" ply and not much framing, yet very stout. From what I can see from your photos (though not too clear to me) it seems more like multiple layers of solid, thin, wood, lapstrake on the bottom over that and some fine craftsmanship.
    You need to be sure before getting materials for repair.
    What AJR says is good information, try to replace with what was originally done and same materials, as opposed to filling and patching.
    For example, if there is no transom framing, than it is most probably built of multiple layers of thin planking, or a couple layers of thick (3/8-3/4") ply and glued and screwed to the planking. If so, you might remove the fastenings, run a saw down the joint, and (gulp) remove the entire transom, making it easier to repair, clean out the faying surfaces (joint surfaces) and epoxy back together. Same approach with the outer keel as AJR says: remove and repair/replace.
    Sounds drastic, but is usually cheaper and easier(?) in the long run.
    Also, you already know this, but if it is 1/4" ply, that outer veneer is way thin, be careful not to sand through.
    Just my 2 cents and probably worth every penny.
    Best of luck, keep up the energy, and keep us updated (and stay out of the Bilge).

    I took Jackster's advise and pulled the transom. It was a rain day for me so I got at it about noon. Took me all afternoon. It wasn't hard exactly, but there were a LOT of srcrews and some of them gave me issues with stripping heads. Also, there were a dozen or so 2" ring-shank nails. Those were fun! I had to drill out the heads on all of them as they were counter driven a bit. The transom just pulled right off after all fasteners were out.

    The transom consists of 1"+ thick ply on the outside and verious pieces of mohog on the inside. Pretty stout.

    There is virtually nothing left of a seal between the transom and hull so now I'll get to clean it up really well and do a proper Dutchman's patch on the upper corner that's rotted. Then seal it up tight and put 'er back in.

    Jackster, as far as the hull goes, I guess it very well could be multiple layers of solid, thin, wood, as you said. I'm not sure how to describe it but on the edges it looks like plywood. The lapstrake is actually built into the ply, is really the only way I can describe it. There aren't any gaps. It's pretty inpressive to me. I tried to get a picture but it didn't work out.

    There is a lot of oil in the wood back there. It's in the bottom of the transom, all blocking on the bottom and hull. How can I get that out?

    Shot of the transomless hull.





    Quote Originally Posted by 240sxguy View Post
    I see a few other madison guys here, so I thought I would pop my head in on this thread. I live in Oregon, wi.

    Cool boat!

    Also, if you end up having to pay a shipping charge for plywood please let me know because I need some too. Shipping could be split up between us. Keep this updated and let me know where you get your ply from. I am itching to work on my thompson!
    Thanks 240!

    I stopped in McCormick's Lumber(on Milwaukee St. in Madison) this morning. The stock meranti marine ply. They have sizes from 3 mm to 18mm. Not every mm but most. I checked it out and it's nice. A 4x8 6mm(1/4") is $70. I found it for less online but I priced one with crate and shipping and it would be about $240! I'm just going to get it from McCormick's.

    I talked to the nephew of the owner and he said his uncle refurbishes wooden boats. He has West products there and a poster for the meet and Cristies Landing so I'm sure some of you guys have met him. I'm sorry I forgot to get his name.


    Any of you Madison area guys get hit with bad storms today? All day here in NE Dane county. I watched a group of clouds start rotating right over over my house and it turned into a funnel cloud 3 miles east of me. That's too close for comfort! A few minutes ago the air was green outside!

  31. #31
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    May 2002
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Justin.

    Well! It is obvious you have at least one of the essential qualities needed for this project to succeed - courage.
    And I think some of the others as well-confidence, energy, woodworking talent and/or experience, a little disposable income and an understanding spouse.
    From what you and Andrew have found out about the builder (impressive research by the way, and very interesting, thanks for sharing) the materials used were probably custom milled in their shop. Looks like shiplapped, tapered, lap planks, glued I think to the layers of 1/8" planking, mahogany, looks like. Too thick, I think to be called veneers.
    So, it looks like you will need some of this stock, or something close, for repairs. Might be a little hard to find, but can be milled up at a local woodworking shop from thicker stuff, or, if you don't already have them, an excuse to buy some tools-bandsaw, thickness planer, jointer, table saw and more.[(understanding spouse? disposable income?)].
    The sites Andrew mentions might be your best source for information for materials and more.
    Keep up the good work and thanks for the great pictures and updates.

  32. #32

    Default Re: Cadillac?

    These hulls are thin veneers glued and stapled at 90 degrees to one another. Plywood in essence. 5 or 7 plys. A resin adhesive was used, maybe resorcinol. They were formed over a mandrel (no, not Barbara) which was covered with something. The entire package was then pushed into an autoclave (oven) and cooked.

    Here is a picture of the autoclave and boat hull ready to enter it at Carver Boat Corp. in Milwaukee circa 1955:


    I am sure U.S. Molded Shapes made their hulls in the same manner. They probably had many autoclaves.

    Andreas (not Andrew)

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Weather was BAD yesterday, we got hammered. I am pretty sure I saw rotation near my house too. What town do you live in?

    Thanks for the information about the lumber, that is a pretty reasonable price to be able to grab it local!

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    ANDREAS yes!!!!! My profuse apologies offered.
    You are a wealth of information, or at least access to it. Thanks for sharing it.

    I did some work on one of the Luders 16 a few years ago and when you mentioned the autoclave, it made sense about the construction of Justin's boat. Very nice craftsmanship and unusual planking stock. I think they also used resorcinal.
    As I recall, the Luders owner said the autoclaves at their yard in Connecticut were also pressurized.
    Thanks again for the interesting information. [(Andreas...Andreas...Andreas...dummy, read the words!!)]

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    That looks like it was very well built, and a handsome thing it will be when done. Keep at it, well worth your time and effort.
    Gerard>
    Everett, WA

    Il colore del cielo, la forza del mare.

  36. #36
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Jackster, well, I have an undersatanding wife at least! Seriously though, I was the kid who took everything apart and could(usually) get them back together. So I'm good with my hands. If I were to screw up this project I will have a bunch of firewood!

    Andreas, I was telling my father-in-law today about how I thought they made this type of hull. I was close but didn't know about the bake-it-until-it's-a-nice-golden-brown step. Again, thank you very much for the info. Everything you've posted have been very interesting and I'm learning a lot about this boat!

    240, my address is Marshall(no connection to my user-name) but I live in the country, west of there. Marshall reported a funnel cloud yesterday.

    Gerard, thanks for the encouragment. I'm really enjoying it.

  37. #37
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    Aug 2010
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    1

    Default Re: Cadillac?

    I stumbled upon this discussion about the Cadillac Boat Justin is rebuilding. I am glad to know more of the history of Cadillac boat as I have a 53 (??) Cadillac Seville that I am in the process of refinishing. The story of the GM lawsuit was interresting. At one time I thought GM made boats. The chrome Cadillac emblem is the same one would find on a car.
    The boat has been stored for about 30 years in our warehouse and is in excellent shape with exception of the varnish. It has alternating colored deck planks red stained mahogany with white birch (??) It has the same hull shape as Justin's and I think is 15'. there is a hull # visible on the inside of the transom. I have the original battery and tires on the trailer (which I believe is identical to Justin's). The evinrude is perhaps 30 hp and has some of the original factory grease which, along with the hull condition, make me believe it has few hours in the water. I know I have taken it out maybe 10 times during the 30 years.
    I need to get back to the refinishing and am glad to know that a good spar varnish will do the deck. I am concerned about a mold stain on a light plank near the transom and think it needs to be bleached. I plan to tape off the red stained planks, bleach where necessary, and put a coat or two over the light wood to protect it from a restaining of the red planks. Then a coat or two over red. I have all the caulking removed but need to find the proper white caulking to go back with, then I think another several coats of varnish. Then I will need to flip the boat to do the bottom.
    I live in central Texas and hope to someday attend a wooden boat meet, or hook up with a club. I have heard there may be one in Austin, Texas. I will look for the "Real Runabouts" by Speltz and would appreciate any response or thoughts about how to proceed with the deck. Also I need a replacement glass lens for the running light and am missing the flagpole.
    Does anyone know of a fully restored Cadillac Seville?

  38. #38
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    Jan 2011
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    Floyd, NY
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Hey Justin!

    Some pictures of my 1957 Wagemaker you have requested. This is before I started some work on it. I now have her fully gutted and flipped upside down so I can work on her. Won't be until Spring though. There 3 1/2 feet of snow out there now and way too cold for me to strip paint off! BRRRRRR! 16 below tomorrow!

  39. #39
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Learning to Post pictures. Bare with me here.

  40. #40
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    Apr 2010
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    West Central Ohio
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    No question in my mind, that boat was made by Wolverine Wagemaker of Grand Rapids, Mich. Cadillac built theiir own boats and as I know it, merged with Wolverine Wagemaker when Wolverine wanted to get into the aluminum boat business that Cadillac boats were already in building. This may not be 100% accurate, just repeating what I heard and read somewhere. I was not aware that Cadillac had any wooden boats in their name at this period in time, so this is a first for me. I have learned allot of firsts though when it comes to boats. The bottom is what is called "Plylap". As you can see it is lap strake designed as a Lyman would be, yet the whole hull is molded plywood. There was a boat virtually identical to this in Fleabay that is located in Indiana, that was in Fleabay in the past 2-3 weeks. Do a search of completed auctions under Wolverine and you will find it listed as a '59. Your boat is of the later style or I should even say last style of wood boats that I have seen and that is what I was looking for. Great boats and pretty fast. Mine will do easily 28 mph with a '86 Johnson 30hp on it and 2 adults on board. It drops to 26 mph with 4 adults on board. I think that is good speed without allot of horsepower. I am redoing a '58 Plylap right now and of course I looked a long time to fine one. Then after you find one, you find others, figures doesn't it. But, I love mine and after 2 runs with it this fall, I hope to complete the restoration by Memorial Day. If you get a chance, send me a PM. I hope you are still watching this thread.

    I need to give Andreas a hand, I didn't read close enough all the posts in this thread and Andreas had some very good anwers I shuold have seen.

    Marsh Mellow, you are doing some VERY good work on that boat. Do you have any updated pictures or stories?
    Last edited by Dave Katt; 01-22-2011 at 06:18 PM.

  41. #41
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  42. #42
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawn-til-Dusk View Post
    Learning to Post pictures. Bare with me here.
    Here are Thornes how to post pictures directions.

    Here's how to post photos on this forum:

    FIRST - Don't attach photos. Only a tiny version will display.

    SECOND - Post the photos on the web. Use your own website or a free image hosting service like www.flickr.com, picturetrail, photobucket, etc.

    Once posted on the web, right-click the photo to "Copy Image Location", or drag the photo to another browser window, then copy the URL (web address). You can test by pasting the photo URL into the location field (http://* ) of a web browser and see if the photo displays. Remember that this process will not work for photos only located on your computer, or uploaded to members-only Yahoo groups.

    (In Flickr - You usually have to first click the photo to bring up the black-framed viewer, then click the "View All Sizes" link near the top right. Then you can get the URL by right-clicking the image. If you don't want the largest size (displayed) you can then click another option in the "Available sizes" links above the image.)

    THIRD - ONE TIME PROCEDURE TO SET UP ENHANCED INTERFACE:
    1. Click the "Private Messages" link in the browser window in the top left of the menu bar.

    2. Click the "General Settings" link about 2/3 down the left column under "My Account".

    3. At the bottom of the next page in "Misc Options", select "Enhanced Interface - Full WYSIWYG Editing" from the Message Editor Interface options. Click the Save Changes button.

    FOURTH - DO THIS EVERY TIME TO POST IMAGES IN THREADS:
    A. Once the above Enhanced Interface has been set up, in any "Reply" window you can click the "insert image" icon --> a little yellow square icon with a dot at each corner, a tiny tree in the center.

    Depending on browser version and Reply/Edit status, this may bring up a simple window to paste the URL into, or the "Add an Image" window described below.

    B. If the window titled "Add an Image" comes up, click the "From URL" tab, paste the URL of the photo in the field, deselect the box for "Retrieve remote file and reference locally", then click the "INSERT IMAGE" button. The Forum software will resize some large images, so look at your post to see the actual displayed images.

    YouTube video on how to select the image URL in Firefox, navigate the "Add an Image" tabs and paste the image URL -
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkfB_...layer_embedded

  43. #43

    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Cadillac Boat and Motor Company was started in 1953 as a wholly owned subsidiary of Wagemaker Company. It was never a start up firm that later on merged with Wagemeker. It was formed by Wagemaker in 1953. Wagemaker also owned U.S. Molded Shapes. Cadillac made aluminum boats only at the outset. They later added wooden boats using hulls made by U.S. Molded Shapes.

    Andreas

  44. #44
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    Default Re: Cadillac?



    Many Thanks to Jimmy W. I was able to post better images of my boat for you Justin. I had took the windshield off and most of the hardware before these pictures were taken. I have most if not all the original hardware. I'm looking for a new/newer rubber for the windshield as well as the plastic chrome trim. If anyone can knows how to clean off the mold and varnish from the original rubber trim I'd be extremely grateful. Also the air compressor for the horn is missing and the speedometer need to be replaced unless someone knows how to free it up and replace the lens that melted out of it from being stored in a hot barn for years. Those are the only thing I think this boat needs minus a new interior and paint/varnish. I have a 1965 40 HP Evinrude that came with it. It last ran in 1982 and I think it might still work. I'd love to get a 1957 motor for it. Preferably a Johnson Seahorse. The trailer was completely restored to it's original color. The stickers are the original on it as well... many thanks to my father long hard work to get it to this state. I have the original trailer lights but replaced them with the modern led light for more visibility. I don't want any mishaps when it come to towing my new pride and joy.

    Can't wait to get back to work on her. Tomorrow brings -17 degrees! Gotta love Upstate New York. I'll keep you posted or might even start my own thread. Keep this thread going so we all can pass on advice! Andreas has provide a lot of good information thus far. Might be able to share what I have come across later about some of the history of these crafts. Seems like everyone hit the highlight about them so far.

    Can anyone prove to me that this is in fact a 1957 boat? Hull number stamped on the transom is A8370. I learned from another post that this could give you a model number, length and year. Here is what they said... hull number 41454 means the boat is model 4, 14 feet long and was built in 1954. But my hull number doesn't coincide with that at all. The hull was made by US Molded Shapes as seen in your boat. So it's a later year boat.

    Chris

  45. #45
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    Apr 2010
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    West Central Ohio
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Mine is titled as a '58 and the ser. no. on the stern is A 7123. I was trying to post pictures here as well, but they are too large. I am not sure how to shrink them to attach them here. They are on my Kodak Easy Share. Now, just where does it get easy?

  46. #46
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Hey Dave! Look at the thread above mine (two thread above). Jimmy W did an awesome job explaining how to post picture here. I started an account with Photobucket and it worked well. I don't have a yahoo email so I skipped the flickr one. Hope this helps.

    Chris

  47. #47
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    Feb 2010
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    northern Georgia, USA
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    1,853

    Default Re: Cadillac?

    I am glad that the directions helped, but they were written by Thorne. I just posted a copy of his directions. I use Photobucket myself.

  48. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    West Central Ohio
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    Default Re: Cadillac?

    [/IMG]Let's give this picture thing another try. This boat is titled as a '58, I have the original bill of sale for it, from that year. Of course, that doesn't really tell us what year it was built, it actually tells us what year it was sold and then titled. But on the inside of the stern, there is a stamping that says A7123. This boat is actually titled as an Elgin, but Wolverine/Wagemaker was building some of the boats for Sears/Elgin. It is also marked on the bottom side of the deck 6-14- Fleetline. The original motor to the boat was a 30hp Elgin. I do have one located, but I am very fond of the Evinrude blue and actually had one like the 35 hp I am putting on it, on a '57 Wolverine I had back in '67. The picture of the boat together is before I stripped her appart to redo it this Winter. The motor on the boat will be finding a new home soon, which is a shame as it is a good running motor, but I am also restoring a '57 Evinrude electric start Big Twin 35hp. This is the boat that I have asked many questions about when using Ephaines (sp?) varnish. The seats and all the interior is getting close to being finished. There is a new deck cut and ready for final fitting. But first, I want to flip her over and do the bottom.

    A little shameless plug here. I am looking for the Evinrude script on the engine hood and thenI can take all the parts to boat and motor to the platers. I am trying to hustle, as before you know it, it will be time to hit the water.

    Chris, mine has the very same motor pad on the transom as yours. I wonder,was that a standard issue item on these boats? I am enjoying looking at the details about the different Wolverines/Cadillacs here as I am attempting to make mine as near as original as reasonably possible.


    Well, I thought I followed the instructions correctly, but now they are small. WTH?



  49. #49
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    Jan 2011
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    Floyd, NY
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    44

    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Dave,

    I don't know if the motor pad was standard or not. Mine says something about vibration reducing on the pad. So I'm assuming it's to absorb some of the wear and tear that the motor mounts puts on the transom. I highly recommend leaving it on there especially since I'm sporting a '65 40HP Big Twin Evinrude.

    Where are you finding parts for your boat? What kind of stripper are you using for the bottom? I can seem to find stuff strong enough to remove the bottom paint. You mentioned having a 57 wolverine once. Can you provide more information about it? Any and all you can recall would be really nice. By the way I clicked on your pictures and got a bigger preview. It also sent me to your album and I was able to see more of the work you're doing.


    Thanks for sharing,

    Chris

  50. #50
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    Jul 2010
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    In the country, Wisconsin
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    26

    Default Re: Cadillac?

    Whew! Thread has been busy recently! I've been very busy this winter too, but not with the boat. My wife is having our first baby(a boy!) in April so I've been finishing up projects around the house before we run out of time and money. Plus I had a water pipe freeze and break this morning. Argg!

    I didn't get too much further on stripping the boat before winter set in. Inside is mostly stripped but the black stuff on the bottom is brutal. It's a very heavy sand paint, eats up all my stripping pads. I thought about leaving on and touching it up but the wood underneath has dried in spots and split. So I might just have to keep working at it.

    Another thing that has taken a lot ot time is the transom. I have it completely apart, I mean all the pieces that make it up are seperated. I'm trying to get all the oil/fuel out. I bought a bunch of "Bilge Bully". It has helped a lot but everytime I applied it and rinsed, I'd still see oily water coming off. That too will just take time.

    Most of the hull above waterline is rough stripped, and some of the bottom is cleaned. I have everything that's bolted in removed. The small stuff is inside so I might be able to get to refinishing that stuff this winter yet. The boat itself is now in storage, snowed in.

    So, I'm not sure how long it's going to take me to get it done now, not going to rush it but I'm still very excited to get it out on the water. I'm having day-dreams of me and the wife and son enjoying it! However, I'm really nervous about varnishing it. It sounds like if you don't get it perfect, you start over, or live with the faults.

    Thanks to Andreas and the others, I was able to did up some info on these things.







    Just some info and adverts, but pretty interesting! Seems you could buy a blank hull from Molded Shapes and build a bout yourself. How cool would that be!

    I see evidence that mine might have has that white half arrow down the side but I don't have any trim for it. Also, the rub strip along the gunwale is all but rotten. I have to find 17' white oak and make them myself. Going to be expensive. I don's see any evidence of there being a windsheild but the front deck was in horrible shape and I think had been replaced before. I will have a windshield but I don't think I'll ever find an original. Mine has the transom bad too, might be a stock part.

    Other things mine doesn't have a horn or any rubber trim. I have that lower rub rail but no metal moulding on it, and definitly no apolstered seats! Those look nice! There is a speedo but nothing to run it! There was a tube coming out the speedo however.

    Dave and Chris, beautiful boats! Thanks much for posting pics. I have A8468 stamped into my transom, no idea what it means. Kinda wish it was the more simple # like Chris mentioned.

    Dave's also seems to have way more accesories than mine. Looks real good! I love the idea of you using a period Evinrude. I will be using one too. I work in a town called Cambridge, WI. This is the same town that Ole Evinrude lived in and started it all, on lake Ripley. That is where I'll launch her for my first time, with an Evinrude of course!

    Thanks for the revival of this thread. It's great to know there are a few of these around and being restored!

    Justin

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