Floating Farmers Market - New Work for Old Work Boats

[Dave Petrich]

I had a part time gig driving an old 65' halibut schooner a couple years ago for a biofuel research outfit. The company decided to retire the boat last year and asked me if I could think of anything that could be done with the vessel. The problem was that at 100 years old, she is too big for a sensible yacht conversion and too impractical for today's commercial fishing requirements.

She is however one of the oldest halibut schooners remaining from the North Pacific fleet - She has traditional Scandinavian lines and small offset aft wheelhouse that was designed to accommodate a stack of sailing dories on the stern. Here is a shot I took a couple years ago when we were preparing to do a test harvest for seaweed:



The idea I came up with was to use the historic boat as a floating transient farmers market. With a large hold and a huge amount of deck space, it seemed that she would be an ideal platform for dockside transactions of locally grown produce.

Back when the boat was built, small farms around the Puget Sound region transported their crops to market by boat. There were no roads back then--everything went by water. My idea is to re-establish the old trade routes between the waterfront communities along Puget Sound. The project is called "Farmboat". (You can see more about it at www.farmboat.org)

My eventual goal is to have three large historic workboats servicing about eighteen different ports along Puget Sound on a weekly basis. -- delivering CSA packages, offering local agricultural products and crafts as well as carrying adventure seeking travelers from port to port and maybe even hosting maritime music entertainment and cookouts on occasion.

I have been getting tons of volunteers signing up on the web site as well as people wanting CSA deliveries in their port towns. (CSA stand for "Community Supported Agriculture" - it's a an increasingly popular trend for local farms). Many of the ports love the idea because it can be a cool attraction for visitors as it supports local maritime history and sustainable farming. One of my objectives is to get some of the ports to agree to an annual "Floating Market Day" where we can invite many boats to join in selling foods and crafts.

Anyway, so there's my idea to save old work boats. What I am looking for are ideas, comments and suggestions as to how to make it a reality. I am just in the process of forming the organization, writing a business plan and securing funding.

P.S. Here is our new logo!

[Hal Forsen]

Very cool idea.
Good Luck.

[huisjen]

I like it.

Dan

[David Cockey]

Workboats were used on the Chesapeake to carry produce from the eastern shore to Baltimore until the mid-20th century. In the early 1960's the boats were still tied up along Pratt Street selling produce, but it was trucked in and loaded on the boats which remained tied up.

[Harbormaster]

Dave Berry has been doing that in Maine on a small scale for quite a few years now, you might want to get in touch with him.

http://www.maineboats.com/online/har...es/market-boat

[Woxbox]

I like it. But surely you'll offer a selection of seafood, too?

There's also a business to be had selling to cruisers at busy ports. But with that size boat, they'd have to come to you in their dinghies.

[Eric Hvalsoe]

I like it too, and the logo. Hope you are able to move forward.

[Dave Petrich]

Workboats were used on the Chesapeake to carry produce from the eastern shore to Baltimore until the mid-20th century. In the early 1960's the boats were still tied up along Pratt Street selling produce, but it was trucked in and loaded on the boats which remained tied up.

Cool. I will try to find out more about that. Why did they truck in the produce? Was the boats just used as an attraction?

Dave Berry has been doing that in Maine on a small scale for quite a few years now, you might want to get in touch with him.

http://www.maineboats.com/online/har...es/market-boat

I already had the story linked on our history page. Spoke with the photographer who took the shots the other day. She said that he has been doing it for about 15 years. Cool little boat. He is defiantly on my list of people to call.

I like it. But surely you'll offer a selection of seafood, too?

There's also a business to be had selling to cruisers at busy ports. But with that size boat, they'd have to come to you in their dinghies.

Licensing for seafood is a bit of a challenge. However, we eventually plan to offer seafood -- probably smoked and canned at first. I do have a fellow that has a 30' boat and fish packing license who said he would be interested in joining in on some of the Farmboat stops.

Boaters will always be welcome. We have plenty of fenders. Maybe it would be worth while anchoring in Roche Harbor and Deer Harbor in the San Juan Islands during August?

[David Cockey]

Cool. I will try to find out more about that. Why did they truck in the produce? Was the boats just used as an attraction?

The boats provided the space as well as an attraction. No boats to put the produce on would mean no market. The boats vanished with the Inner Harbor redevelopment. My guess is by the 1960's they trucked the produce in for a variety of reasons. A truck is less affected by adverse weather. One driver in a truck could make a round trip from the eastern shore in a day. The truck probably used less fuel. Also, I don't know if this was applicable but getting the produce by truck would have enabled getting produce from geographically diverse sources.

Baltimore has a tradition of peddlers with horse drawn wagons loaded with produce and other items, locally known as "arabbers". In the 1960's they were a common site in residential neighborhoods but the numbers have been steadily declining. Most recent there have been problems with stables for their horses and I don't know how many are on the streets this year.

[Dave Petrich]

The boats provided the space as well as an attraction. No boats to put the produce on would mean no market. The boats vanished with the Inner Harbor redevelopment. My guess is by the 1960's they trucked the produce in for a variety of reasons. A truck is less affected by adverse weather. One driver in a truck could make a round trip from the eastern shore in a day. The truck probably used less fuel. Also, I don't know if this was applicable but getting the produce by truck would have enabled getting produce from geographically diverse sources.

Baltimore has a tradition of peddlers with horse drawn wagons loaded with produce and other items, locally known as "arabbers". In the 1960's they were a common site in residential neighborhoods but the numbers have been steadily declining. Most recent there have been problems with stables for their horses and I don't know how many are on the streets this year.

I thought you were referring to the town of Chesapeake - where I can see that it would have been a long drive around before the Bay Bridge was put in.

I would love to find some photos or more info about the Baltimore farm boat market. I seems like it would be a great reference point for our program. If you remember any other details that would be helpful in searching, please let me know.

On a further note: I am taking delivery today of an old 18' beach seine skiff from the 1930's. It will be used as a promotional exhibit for our farmboat program. Probably could pack a few hundred pounds of produce for dockside retail demonstration in Seattle (similar to what the guy in Maine is doing).

[Harbormaster]

Dave, sorry I missed the link to your page - great site. Dave Berry is a wicked nice guy, be careful he can talk your ear off. Good Luck.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Great idea, the best of luck

[Dave Petrich]

Dave, sorry I missed the link to your page - great site. Dave Berry is a wicked nice guy, be careful he can talk your ear off. Good Luck.

Yes, I think I will talk to him. I just bought an old 18' beach seine skiff from the 1930's that can be used as a "proof of concept". It's sort of similar to Dave's boat. Just a bit smaller, but probably could pack 500 pounds or so for a market test here in the city. Here is a photo:



I just need to cork some seams, boat sauce the inside and put a fresh coat of paint on. I figured it would be a very useful work skiff later if we need to transport things to and from the big boat where we might not have a deep enough dock.

[Dave Petrich]

I did my first "pilot" market test last wednesday. Decided to use a few antique charter boats for the test at Seattle's new Lake Union Park. (the Allure and Corsair operated by my company Cedarwave and the Carol M operated by Enchantress Cruises). It was a great turnout and people really loved the idea of delivering fresh produce from local farms by boat.

Here is a few shots of our first Farmboat Floating Market event:







The last shot is sort of interesting from the standpoint that in the background is the Virginia V which is the last remaining steam powered vessel that was transporting farm products around Puget Sound in the early 1900 before the truck routes were built here.


Still working on the lighter. Seams corked, outer surfaces primed and bilge tared. I hope to have it done in a few weeks before the weather turns ugly for the year.

[Garret]

Dave Berry has been doing that in Maine on a small scale for quite a few years now, you might want to get in touch with him.

http://www.maineboats.com/online/har...es/market-boat

I've purchased off her, as have many other folks at Robinhood.

The market they seem to hit is marinas, town docks, etc. One thing I'd think could be an issue is stepping on any local farms' toes. David seems to avoid that, but don't know the details.

[rbgarr]

I've purchased off her, as have many other folks at Robinhood.

The market they seem to hit is marinas, town docks, etc. One thing I'd think could be an issue is stepping on any local farms' toes. David seems to avoid that, but don't know the details.

Dave and his family also carry alot of baked goods and perhaps even meat pies. I bet you could offer those and fresh coffee and have more appeal than fruits and vegetables. Breads, jams, jellies. Set benches along the railing. People would love to come aboard to sit, eat, take in the atmosphere (as long as there's no serving.... then you're getting into the restaurant business.)
Dave's boat is just too crowded but folks I know itch to ride with him from place to place just for the experience.

Licensing for seafood is often difficult.

[Ian McColgin]

Good idea. Carry on.

[Bruce Hooke]

Interesting idea. Good luck with it!

It does mean there is the extra step of unloading from a truck or other land vehicle and loading onto the ship, but hopefully you can set stuff up so that you don't need to do much setup once you get to a sales location, so that saves the step most farmers have to do of setting up a tent and tables and setting up the "merchandise" once they get to a farmers market.

[Mad Scientist]

Dave and his family also carry alot of baked goods and perhaps even meat pies. I bet you could offer those and fresh coffee and have more appeal than fruits and vegetables...

There was a 'floating bakery' operating in the Maritimes years ago - imagine the crowds you could draw with the aromas of freshly-baked goods and fresh coffee!
[That boat (mv Selchie) was roughly the size of your boat in post #1, perhaps a little smaller. The owners eventually decided to take their boat south and deliver goods to poor folks in the Caribbean. The boat was lost in a hurricane.]

Tom

[Dave Petrich]

Dave and his family also carry alot of baked goods and perhaps even meat pies. I bet you could offer those and fresh coffee and have more appeal than fruits and vegetables. Breads, jams, jellies. Set benches along the railing. People would love to come aboard to sit, eat, take in the atmosphere (as long as there's no serving.... then you're getting into the restaurant business.)
Dave's boat is just too crowded but folks I know itch to ride with him from place to place just for the experience.

Licensing for seafood is often difficult.

I am going to try and get some baked goods for our next couple of markets to see how that goes over. I just rebuilt an old Olympic y-12 diesel stove that should be great for brewing coffee the old fashioned way. It's defiantly the ambiance we are selling. After all, most stuff you can buy at a street market can be more cost effectively procured at Costco, Trader Joes or your local consumer coop. Offering seafood is a bureaucratic problem if you don't catch it yourself. Catching it yourself is another bureaucratic problem.

Interesting idea. Good luck with it!

It does mean there is the extra step of unloading from a truck or other land vehicle and loading onto the ship, but hopefully you can set stuff up so that you don't need to do much setup once you get to a sales location, so that saves the step most farmers have to do of setting up a tent and tables and setting up the "merchandise" once they get to a farmers market.

There is certainly more work in trying to do a market from a boat. Things still have to be set up when you get to the dock. However, our larger boat will sort of operate as a floating refrigerated warehouse--hopefully, we can plan it so that the reefer is running on shore power most of the time.

[BrianW]

What an exciting idea! Was hoping to see the halibut boat in the market pictures, but it was nice with the charter boats.

[Dave Petrich]

What an exciting idea! Was hoping to see the halibut boat in the market pictures, but it was nice with the charter boats.

The halibut schooner is not presentable yet. I decided to start running the markets with other antique boats to build public interest in the idea. I can then more easily raise the $150K to finish off the topside work. Hopefully, if I get enough PR on the idea and enough good photos to show the local ports, we can get the Olympic put together by next summer.

[elron]

I love this idea and have looked at your site several times after discovering it a couple weeks ago. I wish you good luck and will be watching your progress! Jim

[granouaile]

Great idea! Good luck with it. It obviously resonates with everyone who reads your thread, an idea whose time has come it looks like.
Anne

[sailboy3]

I work for david as a salesman in the summer on his boat and go sailing with him in the fall.

at squirrel island:



looking forward from amidships:

[sailboy3]

My boat and his on an overnighter:



In the fall he takes the market tables off and puts on a cabin. The pics in the previous post were from two years ago i think.

[sailboy3]

By the way Dave, as you can see in my photos, David's boat is a 34' sharpie, not an 18' skiff. It's great to see someone else doing this.

[emf]

I love those old halibut schooners. It would be great to rig it traditional with sails.

I knew a guy that had a good size boat and used to sell produce to the indian villages up the coast to alaska in the 70s.

[Dave Petrich]

By the way Dave, as you can see in my photos, David's boat is a 34' sharpie, not an 18' skiff. It's great to see someone else doing this.

Great photos. Thanks for posting them. Gives me a better perspective on how the boat was laid out. My intention with the 18' skiff was to use it as a lighter (ship to shore tender) in communities that did not have adequate docks--the halibut schooner has a 12' draft. My idea is that we would drop the hook and just load enough cargo into the skiff for the day.

Milo, when you guys would pull up to fixed docks that were much higher off the water than the boat, did you lift the produce boxes up to the dock for people to select from or did you just let them tell you what to select? Or do you only sell at floating docks?

Here is a photo from last wednesday's market:



The weather has been so nice at the last two markets that we just unloaded things on the dock to make it easier for people to browse. (*Also because the water level of Lake Washington was lowered about a foot and a half this month in preparation for winter storms.)

I just built a bunch of traditional wood boxes to contain the product. I made them so that they would interlock when stacked so they would not slide around at sea. I was thinking of applying a coat of linseed oil and turpentine with a little pine tar as a sealer. Anyone got suggestions that would not render the boxes poisonous for food?

Progress on the Farmboat skiff moves along a little faster than a snails pace:



edit: for those of you in Seattle this Wednesday (Oct 2oth, 2010) we will be having some maritime folk music entertainment at our floating market at around 5:00 PM. Chris Roe will be performing. I hope to develop an entertainment aspect at many of our future markets next year.

[Bob Triggs]

This is a great idea and I applaud your efforts wholeheartedly!

[Gerarddm]

Sounds great and I hope it flies, er, floats. One thing though: time your visits so as to not step on established weekly farmer's markets?

I bet if you had it at regattas etc you'd do some decent business... or even when cruise ships come in/by, tourists would love the local flavor(s).

[Dave Petrich]

Well, we seemed to have enough people who liked our October dockside market that we thought it would be a good idea to try a winter market. The problem (other than produce being a bit scarce) is that it's damn cold outside in the winter months.

I was looking at the photos from our previous market and it suddenly dawned on me that the big white boat in the backdrop of our market was the last remaining original "farm boat". The steamship Virginia V was built in 1922 to haul farm produce from Vashion Island (a rural island on Puget Sound) to Seattle and Tacoma. She was part of what was then called "the mosquito fleet". The Virginia V was completely restored several years ago right down to her original triple expansion steam engine. Lots of space on the cargo deck and in the main salon to accommodate a bunch of vendors (I figure at least 20).


Farmboat Winter Floating Market Aboard the Historic Steamship Virginia V/

The Virginia V foundation has given us permission to use of the vessel for a floating market venue in November and December. This will be a stationary floating market since we will not be taking the boat anywhere--but it should give people a good idea of what the Farmboat project is about. It's also good for the Virginia V foundation as they get to fulfill their mission to share one of Seattle's maritime treasures with the public in a way that was consistent with the vessels original purpose.

I am making a bunch of wooden tables that will look like "crate tops on saw horses" to try and build up the old world charm factor instead of letting vendors bring their plastic and metal Office Depot tables.

If anyone is around Seattle on Thursdays 11 - 3 up until Christmas (except for thanksgiving), come on by and have a look. If you have not been on the Virginia V, she is worth taking a gander.