Page 1 of 3 12 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 94

Thread: panga?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,459

    Default panga?

    has anyone built one of the pangas from beateau.com? my brother is interested. they look like they have an awful forefoot: tortured ply deadrise hull, by the website.

    i am recommending the kingfisher dory or the hill long point. it is his first build, and those flat bottom hulls will be easier. i plan on flying out to denver to help him plank.

    he wants to trailer the boat down to the baja and go out on the cortez side. he is very experienced with the sea, though maybe not that much at power boating.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kilmarnock, Virginia!
    Posts
    1,870

    Default Re: panga?

    Can't help with the Panga - but if your brother is in Denver, he should come to the Colorado boat builder's get together we are having next weekend!

    June 19, 10:00 am at Boyd Lake State Park, in Loveland

    Have him email me for more details - no boat necessary, just interest!

    Dave Gentry Traveller1719@yahoo.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    San Clemente CA
    Posts
    1,798

    Default Re: panga?

    Having driven Baja's Highway 1 countless times. I'd say your choice of the more slender Tom Hill Long Point is a very good one.
    The road is NARROW with no shoulders and many poor drivers. A wide boat on a trailer is a recipe for disaster.
    IMO A flat bottom skiff is also the better choice for fishing and exploring the SOC.
    Launch ramps are few and far between.
    One of several reasons I would not choose the Kingfisher. I imagine those twin bilge keels would make beach launches a trial.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    SF Bay Area- Richmond
    Posts
    15,127

    Default Re: panga?

    Didn't Welsford do a panga-type design? I'd trust his work before Batteau's, that's for sure!

    Here it is -


    http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/trover/index.htm
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,459

    Default Re: panga?

    thank you thorne. i will look at that. hal, the designer on the kingfisher mentions the flat bottom as being a positive for beaching, but does not seem to talk much about those keels.

    since this is my brother's choice and not mine, i will ultimately defer to his judgement in the end. hopefully someone can enlighten us on that panga forefoot.

    for further detail, the intended use will be four adults and some dive or fishing gear, with maybe a 25 to a 50 horse motor. the long point might be a bit small for him, although again that would be my first choice. he reckons an 18-22 ft hull would be ideal, with concurrent suitable beam. mcmullen, any comments? you must see many rough water dories up your way...he has recently come from the dark side to the light, so his esthetic sensibility will be more of the carolina skiff type than say, a faering.

    he rejected a diablo grande and a bolger sharpshooter. i don't like the looks of the larger diablo, but really it is the perfect hull for what he wants.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Swiftly tilting planet
    Posts
    7,758

    Default Re: panga?

    Over on Boatdesign, there are people who will savage you unmercifully for even considering a panga. Apparently they don't actually, really, truly 'plane' and that flat bottom will pound you stupid in a chop.

    On the other hand, there are lots of these boats doing yeoman service day after day after day in Oceana. Too bad their owners don't know they're doin' it wrong.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    San Clemente CA
    Posts
    1,798

    Default Re: panga?

    IMO The Long Point is too small for that crew with gear and Mr. Hill says 15HP is plenty.
    I can see the Kingfisher's bilge keels working fine to hold a boat upright but dragging across a sandy beach they'd have to be pretty large to keep 'em from digging in.
    There is a couple more Bolger Boats you might look at.
    http://www.instantboats.com/downeastdories/dories.php
    Glen L and Jeff Spira both have a couple nice flat bottom skiff designs.
    Panga style boats are probably one of the most widespread designs on the planet.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    on-the-cuyahoga
    Posts
    13,060

    Default Re: panga?

    Jacques Mertens' Panga 20 is a vee-hull while Welsford's Trover is dory-style. Somebody has missed the boat.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,459

    Default Re: panga?

    chuck, i think the trover hull is similar to the diablo, and yes, flat bottomed. the point is that this is a first build for my brother. the flat bottom should be lots easier, but that doesn't seem to be what he wants. he wants to build the bateau panga. so my original question was, what does anyone know about that tortured ply forefoot on the bateau panga? and yes, i am asking for any alternate suggestions, as thorne provided. captain blight, some of the pangas are V hulls. of course we recognize that panga has become something of a generic name, like skiff, down south, right?

    the suggested page contained two good hulls, the surfmaster and the 23 ft dory. i couldn't tell if the atkins 23 footer was for sheet ply. slight V bottom looks very good.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Concord, MA
    Posts
    149

    Default Re: panga?

    There's a good sequence of photos of a complete panga build showing the ply bending starting here http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayim...um=1080&pos=14

    Looks like it was ratchet-strapped down before stitching... it doesn't look like that rough a job though... there are some kayaks that will have you snapping panels like twigs for a while till you find one that takes the bend. Don't ask me how I know that.
    Last edited by cprinos; 06-14-2010 at 02:52 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    on-the-cuyahoga
    Posts
    13,060

    Default Re: panga?

    If you have any questions about any Bateau design you can ask your question on the Bateau Forum. If it is a very technical question you should get an answer from Jacques Mertens, himself.
    http://forums.bateau2.com/index.php
    Mertens is fairly familiar with Carribean craft like the Panga because he ran a business down there for a considerable time
    I haven't seen the plans for a Panga but I suspect it's in line with his other powerboats. Vee hulls are usually " ply which is overlaid inside and out with about 13 oz. biax glass and epoxy. So all you are bending is " ply. If there is anything extra required like kerf bending he will tell you.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Guam, USA
    Posts
    124

    Default Re: panga?

    Along these lines be sure to check out Mark Bowdidge's First Mate - 7' beam, 23' overall, 10-40 or 50 hp, v hull (but not too much in the stern), very nice looking and appears to be a relatively simple ply build.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Guam, USA
    Posts
    124

    Default Re: panga?


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    FL. USA
    Posts
    6,774

    Default Re: panga?

    Flat bottom might be nice to sit on the beach but nobody sits in their boats on the beach so it doesn't matter if it sits flat. What I am getting at, beach your flat bottom and have the water give way to low tide and it is a back and forth torture to get it back into the water and the boat might as well be built of lead. I had flat bottom net skiffs at the bay where I grew up and it would take me a half hour or more to move it 6 ft and the wetter the sand at the shore break, the worst it got. Let off the struggle to catch your breath and the suction takes over once again. I'll never have a flat bottom beachable boat again.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Dallas and points north
    Posts
    7,629

    Default Re: panga?

    In the Houston Boat Show a couple of years ago... I saw this production Panga 18 footer... that has a flat stern bottom and can handle plenty of chop due to the front V....

    This boat is supposedly used in the bahamas and the Carribbean in and out of open water between the isles... This company has built several sizes based on this hull....

    http://www.pangamarine.com/skiff_specs.html











    RodB
    Last edited by RodB; 06-14-2010 at 10:40 PM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Long Beach CA
    Posts
    1,226

    Default Re: panga?

    Look at Jeff Spira's web site. The Pacific Power dories are ment for beaching and launching thru surf. They were designed for rough water and the're flat bottomed.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    FL. USA
    Posts
    6,774

    Default Re: panga?

    RodB,

    Those are the best of the pangas. I have been on that type and they are pretty incredible boats. Shallow draft that will still handle the rough stuff. I was looking for a pic of that delta pad keel. The boats are very nimble performers. I build things for those occasionally.

    The people that own them, love them. People with more conventional vee hulls are critical of them saying they are too tender, etc but it's just not true. They also make efficient use of HP.I always thought if I was to build another power boat, that is what it would be.
    Last edited by pipefitter; 06-15-2010 at 10:07 AM.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    San Clemente CA
    Posts
    1,798

    Default Re: panga?

    That style Panga is the most common boat there is in Baja on both sides of the peninsula.
    You could buy a new panga with motor in Baja for a lot less then you could make one and outfit it with a Baja proof trailer and Mexican insurance.
    Haulin' a panga to Baja is like takin' coal to Newcastle.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    FL. USA
    Posts
    6,774

    Default Re: panga?

    Probably true, Hal. But then again, we could afford a jon boat to catch fish all day long here and yet something compels us to suffer through the build, along with the money we throw at it above the budget when it comes down to the wire.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    San Clemente CA
    Posts
    1,798

    Default Re: panga?

    That's why we're here.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    FL. USA
    Posts
    6,774

    Default Re: panga?

    Those pangas share a similar sheer profile as the Lafitte skiffs.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Western Washington
    Posts
    2,716

    Default Re: panga?

    It's worth a trip just to study the boats and see how the locals use them prior to forming too many conclusions as to which hull form might be better. Here's a simple and cheap form. I know, it's plastic, but it's damn good for what it does.

    Sometimes walking the beach you can "smell polyester resin in the morning." The locals do cheap, fast repairs on the beach.





  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,459

    Default Re: panga?

    i am trying to convince him to build a wooden boat INSTEAD OF of buying one those glass pangas, and begrudgingly i admit they are a good performance hull for the area conditions. he could buy a boat down there (maybe take the bare trailer) but then i'll have to go fishing in a god awful floating toilet seat for the next ten years ( how does this affect me...). it looks like a boston whaler with a lowered sheer, which is to say, camel a*# ugly. i am surprised the salesman doesn't have a 300 lb model in a fullpiece budweiser swimsuit sitting on the deck. remember in the 70s when people used to show up at allman brothers concerts in hats that were woven yarn and cut out beer can panels? i'd have to find one of those and wear it if he bought that thing. i mention flat bottom above less for getting in and off a beach, and more because the diablo/trover style hull is an easy build for a first timer. i think the bowdidge hull recommended above is an elegant, very good looking boat, for what it is. appears the shallow V is less tough than some of the deep Vs, but i say that from looking at the design. i haven't read up on it yet. i like that one an awful lot. i personaly think he should build a diablo grande or the long point. he is stuck on the traditional glass pangas.


  24. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    San Clemente CA
    Posts
    1,798

    Default Re: panga?

    Old School Panga



    The only place you can still find many old school pangas.



    Modern Rancho Leonero "Super Panga"


  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Western Washington
    Posts
    2,716

    Default Re: panga?

    I would have like to have heard the discussion when the mold was built for this hull variation. The designer may have been overly concerned with moving the boat on the beach. I didn't see others like it and I preferred the simpler flat bottom.






  26. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,459

    Default Re: panga?

    dave wright, you posted while i was writing my diatribe above. my brother is going to cancun this morning to dive. he says he is giong to photograph some boats and "check out the local craft". i think it will be easier for him to buy one of those glass boats. but let's all keep our collective fingers crossed that he will stay on the light side, and won't slip back into the dark.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Western Washington
    Posts
    2,716

    Default Re: panga?

    Quote Originally Posted by davebrown View Post
    i am trying to convince him to build a wooden boat INSTEAD OF of buying one those glass pangas, and begrudgingly i admit they are a good performance hull for the area conditions. he could buy a boat down there (maybe take the bare trailer) but then i'll have to go fishing in a god awful floating toilet seat for the next ten years ....
    Well, you might feel that it's a toilet seat, but I'll tell you, it's a very simple toilet seat in a very simple paradise


  28. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,459

    Default Re: panga?

    i look at these and think, wow, ain't plastic boats great? and i truly appreciate the contributions. don't misunderstand me. i am grateful for the input. but i am going to use these photos to point out why he shouldn't buy one.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Western Washington
    Posts
    2,716

    Default Re: panga?

    I understand completely! I keep my very nice home made ply skiff in the garage between jaunts. It's lighter and has features unavailable from the "mold," plus I enjoyed building it.

    But.........life is short and the modern world and mass production intrudes everywhere and is hard to resist for all sorts of reasons. I don't know how long my skiff could live on a tropical beach without very special care and attention.

    Anyway, best wishes to you and your brother; build quick and dirty, and go boating!

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    157

    Default Re: panga?

    The northern equivalent to the panga is the freighter canoe, and the ones I built weight in at (23ft long and 230- 270lbs) considerably less weight than the glass boats. They also mean beach launching short-handed is feasible. When I went down the Baja I had mine on the roof of the suburban, no trailer necessary. Interestingly I did see some really old wooden hulls (in peoples back yards) in a few villages that were dead ringers for my boats.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,459

    Default Re: panga?

    Regarding the discussion mentioned in post #25, I think it went like this:

    Fisherman 1: "Say, those Pangas are ugly as a camel's a#$, don't you think?

    Fisherman 2: "They sure are! Remember when boats were made of wood?"

    F1: "Yes, but the boats were too good looking. Our lives were too desirable. North Americans kept trying to move here. "

    F2: "How can we make the pangas even uglier?"

    F1: "We can put a flat bottom on one. That might make them even uglier than a camel's a%$."

    F2: "Uglier than a camel's a%$. Wow. Let's try it!".

    F1: "Have you ever seen a camel's a%$?"

    F2: "No, but I have seen Dave Brown's second mother-in-law."

    F1: "From now on, let us no longer call them "Pangas". Let us call them "Culo de Camellas".

    And that is why, all over northern Mexico and the Baja, nowadays, if you refer to boats as "pangas", the fishermen will all give you a funny look, and scurry inside their sheds and garages, where they keep their hand polished, immaculately maintained wooden boats, which they never, ever allow Norte Americanos to see.

    etc.
    Last edited by davebrown; 06-15-2010 at 11:24 PM.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Western Washington
    Posts
    2,716

    Default Re: panga?

    The freighter canoe is a great idea! Do you have pictures or a plans source?

    The Surfmaster mentioned in earlier posts isn't too much beamier than a freighter canoe. If I didn't have my current skiff and an unfinished kayak hanging from the ceiling I'd be tempted to slap out a Surfmaster at lowest possible cost and time just for the heck of it:


  33. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,459

    Default Re: panga?

    can you tell i had a trial cancel today, and now i will do anythign to avoid my staff and the mountains of paperwork following me around like so many fiberglass culo de camellas? i also liked that surfmaster. it is the same type of flat bottom, two plank design that bolger uses on so many hulls.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Western Washington
    Posts
    2,716

    Default Re: panga?

    Quote Originally Posted by davebrown View Post
    .....And that is why, all over northern Mexico and the Baja, nowadays, if you refer to boats as "pangas", the fishermen will all give you a funny look, and scurry inside their sheds and garages, where they keep their hand polished, immaculately maintained wooden boats, which they never, ever allow Norte Americanos to see.

    etc.
    I don't think you'll find those boats. It may be that poor folks embrace our technology every bit as much as we do, if not more, and then recycle it in ways we've never considered:


  35. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,459

    Default Re: panga?

    dave, see my edit on the conversation betwen the fishermen.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •