Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst ... 23
Results 71 to 100 of 100

Thread: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

  1. #71
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV.
    Posts
    14,431

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    There is a Concordia on ebay if interested

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CONCO...item45f8a1a84f




  2. #72
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    342

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Have a look at the website www.traditionalsmallcraft.com for a selection of boats being built from the designs of traditional boats of the Delaware River Basin. Melonseeds, sneakboxes, tuckups, Delaware Duckers. All are row/sail boats especially handy and light for trailer, launch, drag, snooze.

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    vancouver, british columbia
    Posts
    1,092

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Actually, Alice hasn't posted on this thread since June 16, 2010.

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    vancouver, british columbia
    Posts
    1,092

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Seems so, but maybe she's just a really deep thinker. Still a great thread - hope she doesn't delete it.

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    3,101

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by shaun warner View Post
    Here you can get access to over 250 boat plans...you can either build one or just have a look through at the different designs, sizes etc

    http://www.easyboatplans.com
    Looks like a waste of money to me. Judging by some of the small illustrations, the plans appear to be reprints of old magazine articles. (There's no telling whether the guy selling this package has permission from the designers and/or magazines to do that.)

    I don't care how many plans there are in the package or how many "bonus" things he wants to throw in ... I'm not plunking down $50 for a bunch of old plans sight unseen, especially when there's no real support and no way of knowing exactly what you're getting. (He clearly didn't design these boats himself.)

    There's so much free information online about different boat plans (even downloadable study plans) that a package like this makes no sense at all. Anyone interested in a boat is better off browsing that material, then paying the designer for a suitable set of plans.

  6. #76

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    14 months since I last posted here, so time for an update on where I got to with all this.

    After learning so much from all the wisdom and suggestions here, I went off to do some thinking. The first thing I realised was that after 25 years on land, I really should try to find out whether I still enjoyed sailing, or whether I was just an old woman dreaming of reclaiming some of the pleasures of my youth. So I bought a very cheap Topper dinghy on flEabay, and placed it in the care of teenage friends who live on the coast. They have had great fun out of it, and so have I. Whether ghosting along in a zephyr or blasting through the surf, I found that sailing still gives me deep pleasure.

    With the first question answered, I reckoned that there was a lot to be said for the cheap plastic boat as part of my journey back to the water. However, the Topper is a damnable version of the concept: soggy, overweight, undercanvassed, and poorly rigged. It didn't help that my 300-year old Topper had wornout gear, but fundamentally it's a bad boat, and I deplore the fact that children are now supposed to learn their sailing in such a crock. Its only virtue is its indestructability, but in my bitchier moments I think that's a bit of a vice.

    So I decided to try something else on the plastic cheapie theme, and bought a Tonic dinghy. This is an unusual early-80s English boat: fibreglass hull very like a Laser, but with an open transom and a wishbone rig. Much more fun than the Topper, and feels like a real pedigree animal by comparison. The wishbone rig is great, and I think it is a great pity that the wishbone never caught on for unstayed cat dinghies: less string, lighter loads, better sail setting. I am so pleased with the Tonic that I bought a second one, so that I can keep them both on the sandy beach at the bottom of my farm, and sail with friends. They were cheap enough that buying 2 boats was not an extravagance.

    So, a year after posting here with zero boats, I now have three. Yeeha! However, they are all plastic fun boats, great for quickly hopping onto the water for splashy fun but no good for the leisurely day out on the water. I still want a cruising dinghy, which some day I will use to fulfil my dream of sailing the length of the River Shannon. (That's a 200km+ journey from my farm to the sea).

    Getting back on the water has taught me more about what I want. I realise that I do need to be a boat light enough to handle alone, and after trying to paddle the Topper home in a calm I know really do need something that rows well, which is why I backed at the last minute off from purchasing a magnificently-built Oughtred Fulmar. Wonderful design, but too bulbous to row well, and too much of a handful for one person to sail. I still love the poetry of Oughtred's double-enders, but am increasingly struck by the wisdom of the design of Welsford's Walkabout. My initial disparagement of its looks came partly from concentrating on a photo of one on a trailer, which is rarely flattering for any vessel, and partly from the paint scheme of the boat in question (the painted deck made it look more bulbous than it would with a varnished deck), and partly from the fact that any decked boat will inevitable look a little bulkier than an open variant.

    It seems to me that Walkabout starts from the right place, with a hull optimised for the delicate balance between rowability and sailability, and a sleeping platform on the floor thanks to the offset centreboard. The lug yawl rig is just what I want, but that boat still has one major flaw for me: the steering. The whaler-style remote tiler is a clever idea, but with the friction of the remote tiller and the indirectness of the control lines, a lot of feel will be lost. A tiller is not just a steering handle, it is a way of feeling what is happening to the boat and the water, and I don't want to put a lot of effort into building a boat which lacks that. Osbert Lancaster attributes the gybe-capzsize of his Walkabout Scamp during this summer's Sail Caledonia partly to the tiller getting caught in his body, so I also wonder whether pushing the tiller so far forward was as clever an idea as it looked. With the mizzen so far forward, I think that a direct tiller might would involve pushing the mizzen aft, which would mean enough other changes to amount to a radical redesign. So maybe Walkabout just ain't gonna work for me.

    However, I have come round to the idea that a push-pull tiller-extension may work for me, so that leads me back to thinking that an Oughtred Arctic Tern might be a good bet, being a bit smaller than a Sooty Tern. Tom Dunderdale's Apple 16 also merits a peek; a little more beamy than is ideal for rowing, but light and still easily-driven, and the decked version includes provision for water ballast. Apple has a very different aesthetic to the Caledonia Yawl which first caught my, but in her own angular way she is a very attractive design. Apart from being proven and well-sorted, has the advantage of needing no jigs, and Tom seems open to designing lots of variants.

    Those three boats come closest out of all the options so far, but there is no design which precisely fits my needs. So when the time comes to build I will either modify one of the existing designs or see if I am brave enough to take up Alan's suggestion of using the Carlson Design Hulls program, and roll my own ... though I will probably be a chicken and leave the design to someone more experienced than me.

    However, the build will be a while off. I can see that building the boat I want is going to be a big project, which will take me a lot longer than the advertised times because of my lack of experience. With a farm to renovate I won't have enough time for the next year or two, so as a next step I have settled on a compromise.

    So my current notion is that the next step on my path to a sail-and-oar boat is to practise boat-building by making a simple rowing boat from a kit. I haven't yet decided what to go for, but am thinking about the nesting version of the Eastport Pram, or a Chester Yawl, or a dory of some form. That way I can learn more about the techniques involved in building a plywood-expoxy boat, which will hopefully inform my choices of cruising dinghy. It will also leave me with a simple, light, boat that I can take out on the water without needing to worry about all the gear required with a sailing boat. I love the idea of being able to quickly drag a light rowboat onto the water late in the long windless summer evenings of the West of Ireland, where sunset is after 10.30 at it's still usefully bright at 11pm.

    My boating escapades have to be sandwiched between all the other projects needed on my farm, such as a few miles of boundary needing a fence, a house with no roof, a dozen acres of trees to plant, and other such small jobs. Since my journey to a wooden sail-and-oar cruiser is going to be a longer one than I initially thought, I hope that folks here will forgive me for dipping in and out to discuss it sporadically as I slowly meander towards The Boat. Thanks again for all the help!

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    1,033

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    From reading your posts I would think you have looked enough to have come across this site also ..... but, just in case

    http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/david77/gallery1.html

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    23,593

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by AliceThrewTheLookingGlass View Post
    14 months since I last posted here, so time for an update on where I got to with all this.

    After learning so much from all the wisdom and suggestions here, I went off to do some thinking. The first thing I realised was that after 25 years on land, I really should try to find out whether I still enjoyed sailing, or whether I was just an old woman dreaming of reclaiming some of the pleasures of my youth. So I bought a very cheap Topper dinghy on flEabay, and placed it in the care of teenage friends who live on the coast. They have had great fun out of it, and so have I. Whether ghosting along in a zephyr or blasting through the surf, I found that sailing still gives me deep pleasure.

    With the first question answered, I reckoned that there was a lot to be said for the cheap plastic boat as part of my journey back to the water. However, the Topper is a damnable version of the concept: soggy, overweight, undercanvassed, and poorly rigged. It didn't help that my 300-year old Topper had wornout gear, but fundamentally it's a bad boat, and I deplore the fact that children are now supposed to learn their sailing in such a crock. Its only virtue is its indestructability, but in my bitchier moments I think that's a bit of a vice.

    So I decided to try something else on the plastic cheapie theme, and bought a Tonic dinghy. This is an unusual early-80s English boat: fibreglass hull very like a Laser, but with an open transom and a wishbone rig. Much more fun than the Topper, and feels like a real pedigree animal by comparison. The wishbone rig is great, and I think it is a great pity that the wishbone never caught on for unstayed cat dinghies: less string, lighter loads, better sail setting. I am so pleased with the Tonic that I bought a second one, so that I can keep them both on the sandy beach at the bottom of my farm, and sail with friends. They were cheap enough that buying 2 boats was not an extravagance.

    So, a year after posting here with zero boats, I now have three. Yeeha! However, they are all plastic fun boats, great for quickly hopping onto the water for splashy fun but no good for the leisurely day out on the water. I still want a cruising dinghy, which some day I will use to fulfil my dream of sailing the length of the River Shannon. (That's a 200km+ journey from my farm to the sea).

    Getting back on the water has taught me more about what I want. I realise that I do need to be a boat light enough to handle alone, and after trying to paddle the Topper home in a calm I know really do need something that rows well, which is why I backed at the last minute off from purchasing a magnificently-built Oughtred Fulmar. Wonderful design, but too bulbous to row well, and too much of a handful for one person to sail. I still love the poetry of Oughtred's double-enders, but am increasingly struck by the wisdom of the design of Welsford's Walkabout. My initial disparagement of its looks came partly from concentrating on a photo of one on a trailer, which is rarely flattering for any vessel, and partly from the paint scheme of the boat in question (the painted deck made it look more bulbous than it would with a varnished deck), and partly from the fact that any decked boat will inevitable look a little bulkier than an open variant.

    It seems to me that Walkabout starts from the right place, with a hull optimised for the delicate balance between rowability and sailability, and a sleeping platform on the floor thanks to the offset centreboard. The lug yawl rig is just what I want, but that boat still has one major flaw for me: the steering. The whaler-style remote tiler is a clever idea, but with the friction of the remote tiller and the indirectness of the control lines, a lot of feel will be lost. A tiller is not just a steering handle, it is a way of feeling what is happening to the boat and the water, and I don't want to put a lot of effort into building a boat which lacks that. Osbert Lancaster attributes the gybe-capzsize of his Walkabout Scamp during this summer's Sail Caledonia partly to the tiller getting caught in his body, so I also wonder whether pushing the tiller so far forward was as clever an idea as it looked. With the mizzen so far forward, I think that a direct tiller might would involve pushing the mizzen aft, which would mean enough other changes to amount to a radical redesign. So maybe Walkabout just ain't gonna work for me.

    However, I have come round to the idea that a push-pull tiller-extension may work for me, so that leads me back to thinking that an Oughtred Arctic Tern might be a good bet, being a bit smaller than a Sooty Tern. Tom Dunderdale's Apple 16 also merits a peek; a little more beamy than is ideal for rowing, but light and still easily-driven, and the decked version includes provision for water ballast. Apple has a very different aesthetic to the Caledonia Yawl which first caught my, but in her own angular way she is a very attractive design. Apart from being proven and well-sorted, has the advantage of needing no jigs, and Tom seems open to designing lots of variants.

    Those three boats come closest out of all the options so far, but there is no design which precisely fits my needs. So when the time comes to build I will either modify one of the existing designs or see if I am brave enough to take up Alan's suggestion of using the Carlson Design Hulls program, and roll my own ... though I will probably be a chicken and leave the design to someone more experienced than me.

    However, the build will be a while off. I can see that building the boat I want is going to be a big project, which will take me a lot longer than the advertised times because of my lack of experience. With a farm to renovate I won't have enough time for the next year or two, so as a next step I have settled on a compromise.

    So my current notion is that the next step on my path to a sail-and-oar boat is to practise boat-building by making a simple rowing boat from a kit. I haven't yet decided what to go for, but am thinking about the nesting version of the Eastport Pram, or a Chester Yawl, or a dory of some form. That way I can learn more about the techniques involved in building a plywood-expoxy boat, which will hopefully inform my choices of cruising dinghy. It will also leave me with a simple, light, boat that I can take out on the water without needing to worry about all the gear required with a sailing boat. I love the idea of being able to quickly drag a light rowboat onto the water late in the long windless summer evenings of the West of Ireland, where sunset is after 10.30 at it's still usefully bright at 11pm.

    My boating escapades have to be sandwiched between all the other projects needed on my farm, such as a few miles of boundary needing a fence, a house with no roof, a dozen acres of trees to plant, and other such small jobs. Since my journey to a wooden sail-and-oar cruiser is going to be a longer one than I initially thought, I hope that folks here will forgive me for dipping in and out to discuss it sporadically as I slowly meander towards The Boat. Thanks again for all the help!
    You are certainly right about the position of the tiller, your body should be in front of it so that you aren't in the way when you need to swing the tiller. With the mizzen so far forward, I think a wishbone tiller might solve the problem. I've never been a big fan of the push-me-pull-you tiller, though I suppose I'd get used to one. The wishbone looks like one, with the wide end where the helmsman is, and a straight piece between the two ends. I've seen another version where they bend it back around, like two wishbones fastened together at the ends, but I don't see the point of it.

    Having designed my own boat, I can recommend the process, though my needs were far different from yours. Right now, I find my needs have changed, and I'm contemplating changing the boat so that it will be better for sailing off a beach. I designed it around a Snipe rig because I already owned one, and that was great for sailing off a dinghy dock, but I'd like something easier to rig for sailing off a beach.

    Anyway, here's how I did it:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/21456843/B...pie-Black-Swan

    I think the key is to have a very good idea of what you want the boat to be when you start out.

  9. #79

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    You are certainly right about the position of the tiller, your body should be in front of it so that you aren't in the way when you need to swing the tiller. With the mizzen so far forward, I think a wishbone tiller might solve the problem. I've never been a big fan of the push-me-pull-you tiller, though I suppose I'd get used to one. The wishbone looks like one, with the wide end where the helmsman is, and a straight piece between the two ends. I've seen another version where they bend it back around, like two wishbones fastened together at the ends, but I don't see the point of it.
    Thanks for that suggestion, John. I had looked the possibility of a wishbone tiller on a Walkabout, but I have done some calculations and have concluded that it a wishbone tiller is unworkable when the mizzen is so far forward. (If you look at other uses of a wishbone tiller, you'll see that the mizzen mast is quite close to the transom). As you can see from this set of lines, the mizzen mast exits the deck just aft of station 8, which on this 5metre-long boat means the mizzen is 1m ahead of the pintles. A stern-hinged tiller will have to clear this obstacle 1m from its pivot.

    For the tiller to be free to swing Y degrees, the required inner radius of the wishbone is Sin Y * (distance from pivot to obstacle). So even if we were happy to constrain the tiller to 45degrees off-centre (which would not be enough for my tastes), we still need the radius of the wishbone to be Sin45 X 1m = 0.707m =~ 28 inches. Add 1.5 inches for the width of the tiller and we are up to nearly 30inches, which would leave the wishbone protruding right out to the 5' maximum beam of the boat. That is is unworkable, because when berthing against a quay wall with the wishbone on the inner side of the boat, there would no room to swing the tiler towards the wall. If we want to allow a 60 degrees off-centre arc (which I would be more comfortable with), the wishbone inner radius grows to 0.866m, or 34inches. Adding 1.5inches for the width of the tiller, and we get 35.5inches ... which would mean that even with the tiller centred, the wishbone protrudes nearly 6inches beyond maximum beam.

    A further problem is that since the transom is raked, the centred tiller would have to be elevated above the horizontal, so that it didn't catch the gunwales when turned sideways. With such a long span, that would leave the helmswoman's end of the tiller ridiculously high.

    The only solution would be too push the mizzen well aft, thereby shifting the centre of effort aft, requiring some compensating repositioning of the centreboard or mainmast, and/or a juggling of sail areas. That's a major redesign.

    I reckon that Walkabout's current tiller arrangement is flawed even if the helmswoman is happy with an indirect system. If you look at this picture of Osbert downwind on a surfing Scamp, you'll see that he has wisely tried to shift his weight aft to lift the bow. However, even with his bum beside right the rudder stock, he is 1m ahead of the stern (which uncomfortably far fwd), and his control of the tiller is seriously impeded. To clear the tiller, he needs to move forward well beyond station 7, probably up to about station 6, which is uncomfortably far forward when weight needs to be kept aft to avoid burying the bow. Even more importantly, the main boom extends aft of station 6 (see this set of lines again)... so if Osbert moved far enough forward to clear the tiller while gybing, his face would be within inches of being whacked by the clew end of the relatively low boom, and his neck at risk of getting tangled in the mainsheet. Not a good set of choices.

    So ... as far as I can see, Scamp's capsize was not Osbert's fault. It seems to me that it was an accident waiting to happen, as because of a major design flaw. I want a boat with the tiller pivoting on the transom, and while I admire John Welsford's ingenuity in his tiller design, it appears to me from the evidence so far that this particular experiment has not been successful.

    My conclusion from all this is that I should to drop Walkabout from my shortlist, unless JW is persuaded to heavily revise the design on the basis of my cheeky armchair criticisms. The boat has so many other strengths that when the time comes I will certainly ask him to look at my concerns, and JW's huge experience as a highly-respected designer gives me hope that he can either allay my concerns or fix the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Having designed my own boat, I can recommend the process, though my needs were far different from yours.
    Thanks for that encouragement! I'll certainly play with some designs, and see where they lead me.

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    16,258

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    If you are considering a push/pull tiller on a different design why not just put one on a Walkabout? It takes a few minutes to get comfortable with it but they really are great.

  11. #81

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    If you are considering a push/pull tiller on a different design why not just put one on a Walkabout? It takes a few minutes to get comfortable with it but they really are great.
    Good idea, Steven ... but I don't think it's workable. The Walkabout's mizzen is so far forward that a push-pull tiller would be inaccessible on one side of the boat unless the helmswoman was sitting way way forward of the mizzen.

  12. #82
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    11,864

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    I too am very much a fan of the push-pull tiller for sail & oar type sailboats, whether or not the boat has a mizzen. For small boats like the size we a talking about, there is no other steering set up that allows as much freedom to move around the boat and sit anywhere, facing any direction, sitting or kneeling or squatting or even standing up, and either hunkered down inside or hiked out on the rail. Nothing else is so completely out of the way of passengers and crew on any tack.

    But I agree that the Walkabout setup with the mizzen location where it is seems a little problematical. But the Whilly Tern/Tirrik/Ness boat/Ness Yawl/Arctic Tern family of boats is essentially the same kind of boat as a Walkabout, and we know they work great.

  13. #83
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    23,294

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Alice,

    It's a real pleasure to hear your thoughts and reasoning. Your experiences afloat have clearly stuck in your imagination and informed it thoroughly. My first thought reading the original post was "She needs WALKABOUT!!" but your consideration of the limitations of the steering alternatives and what you want out of a boat in the way of 'feel' do, sadly, mitigate against it.

    Ireland sounds lovely. We'll wait to hear how you do, and best of luck with your farm! Please let us know how all that gets on, too!
    "It's a pirate's life for me. Savvy??"

  14. #84
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Freeland, WA
    Posts
    26,348

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    I loved briefly sailing on Rowan with James, and he kindly let me steer for a bit. I too had misgivings about the push-pull tiller. Being used to the direct firm and live feel of a solid tiller, the push-pull felt a bit sloppy and unprecise to me; I kept overcompensating. I suppose once a sailor has a few miles under way one would get used to it. The freedom of movement it provides is a real plus, though.
    Gerard>
    ​Freeland, WA

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic; save the country.

  15. #85

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    I too am very much a fan of the push-pull tiller for sail & oar type sailboats, whether or not the boat has a mizzen. For small boats like the size we a talking about, there is no other steering set up that allows as much freedom to move around the boat and sit anywhere, facing any direction, sitting or kneeling or squatting or even standing up, and either hunkered down inside or hiked out on the rail. Nothing else is so completely out of the way of passengers and crew on any tack.

    But I agree that the Walkabout setup with the mizzen location where it is seems a little problematical. But the Whilly Tern/Tirrik/Ness boat/Ness Yawl/Arctic Tern family of boats is essentially the same kind of boat as a Walkabout, and we know they work great.
    James, thanks so much for your comments. I am a huge fan of Rowan, although I know that I am merely one of many admirers of your fine craft. It did occur to me that the best solution to my boating needs would be Rowan accompanied by a large man to haul her up on the beach and do the heavy rowing (and stowing himself neatly as underfloor ballast while underway, so I can continue single-handing! ), but I reckon that Mrs McMullen might be just a teensy bit displeased if I was to poach her boatmaster

    I am increasingly warming to the idea of the push-pull tiller, tho I'd have to try one before taking up the religion (as you'll probably have picked up from my posts so far, I am a bit of a tiller fetishist, and to my mind they can make or break the joy of helming a boat). As you say, they are well-proven on Oughtred's double-enders, so that path looks attractive, particularly since Oughtred's boats have a mizzen far enough aft to allow a wishbone tiller as an alternative.

    I am still a little unsure how successfully an Oughtred double-ender could be adapted to my needs. Sleeping on board in the damp west-of-Ireland climate will require side deck and coamings to stop the rain dripping in around the edge of the tent, as well as an offset centreboard so that I don't have to sleep on my side. I have yet to see a photo of one of these boats configured like that, and am a little unsure whether the offset board is quite such a good idea on the more veed hull. The degree of modification required might be a bit more roll-your-own than my limited boatbuilding skills could manage in limited time.
    Last edited by AliceThrewTheLookingGlass; 09-02-2011 at 12:22 PM. Reason: typo fixes

  16. #86

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    Alice,

    It's a real pleasure to hear your thoughts and reasoning. Your experiences afloat have clearly stuck in your imagination and informed it thoroughly. My first thought reading the original post was "She needs WALKABOUT!!" but your consideration of the limitations of the steering alternatives and what you want out of a boat in the way of 'feel' do, sadly, mitigate against it.

    Ireland sounds lovely. We'll wait to hear how you do, and best of luck with your farm! Please let us know how all that gets on, too!
    Thank you! It's wonderful to find so many knowledgeable people ind enough to offer both encouragement and practical assistance in indulging my whims.

    I love my farm to bits, so much so that I fear I might find it hard to drag myself away from it for long enough to do my planned voyaging. Huge amount of work to do, but that's what makes it fun. Over the winter I will be setting up a website on it to keep all my friends in touch, and when that happens I will post a link.

  17. #87
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    378

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    What about Tom Dunderdales 16 foot Electra Canoe yawl. To me it suits your needs and besides, its very pretty on a drawing and I can imagine that she´s a real killer in real life.

  18. #88
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    16,258

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    I think a regular feeling tiller could be managed on walkabout with some sort of linked steering yolks. I think that's how Howard did it on his Eun Mara, Meander. It needn't be too complicated. Maybe a 12" wide yolk on the rudderhead and then out in front of the mizzen a matching 12" wide yolk with a tiller attached. The two yolks could be attached to each other with line or rod. I know I've seen this done before.


    Steven

  19. #89
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Here & there in Texas
    Posts
    6,384

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    I think a regular feeling tiller could be managed on walkabout with some sort of linked steering yolks. I think that's how Howard did it on his Eun Mara, Meander. It needn't be too complicated. Maybe a 12" wide yolk on the rudderhead and then out in front of the mizzen a matching 12" wide yolk with a tiller attached. The two yolks could be attached to each other with line or rod. I know I've seen this done before.


    Steven
    That is the system that John Guzzwell used aboard Trekka. We all know how well that arrangement worked for John and Trekka.

    There are better pulling boat designs for a solo rower than a dory. Dories behave best when heavily loaded. They can be very cranky when lightly loaded.

    As many have said, there is liitle gain in building a practice boat. Build what you really want first. Use it as a row boat until you have time to build the sailing bits. Be sure to install the centercase during hull construction. They are not easily added later.
    Good luck!
    Wayne
    Somewhere in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    The Straight of Georgia looks big.
    http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/ven...isabeth+Grace/
    http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/venchka/

  20. #90
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    23,593

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by AliceThrewTheLookingGlass View Post
    Thanks for that suggestion, John. I had looked the possibility of a wishbone tiller on a Walkabout, but I have done some calculations and have concluded that it a wishbone tiller is unworkable when the mizzen is so far forward. (If you look at other uses of a wishbone tiller, you'll see that the mizzen mast is quite close to the transom). As you can see from this set of lines, the mizzen mast exits the deck just aft of station 8, which on this 5metre-long boat means the mizzen is 1m ahead of the pintles. A stern-hinged tiller will have to clear this obstacle 1m from its pivot.

    For the tiller to be free to swing Y degrees, the required inner radius of the wishbone is Sin Y * (distance from pivot to obstacle). So even if we were happy to constrain the tiller to 45degrees off-centre (which would not be enough for my tastes), we still need the radius of the wishbone to be Sin45 X 1m = 0.707m =~ 28 inches. Add 1.5 inches for the width of the tiller and we are up to nearly 30inches, which would leave the wishbone protruding right out to the 5' maximum beam of the boat. That is is unworkable, because when berthing against a quay wall with the wishbone on the inner side of the boat, there would no room to swing the tiler towards the wall. If we want to allow a 60 degrees off-centre arc (which I would be more comfortable with), the wishbone inner radius grows to 0.866m, or 34inches. Adding 1.5inches for the width of the tiller, and we get 35.5inches ... which would mean that even with the tiller centred, the wishbone protrudes nearly 6inches beyond maximum beam.

    A further problem is that since the transom is raked, the centred tiller would have to be elevated above the horizontal, so that it didn't catch the gunwales when turned sideways. With such a long span, that would leave the helmswoman's end of the tiller ridiculously high.

    The only solution would be too push the mizzen well aft, thereby shifting the centre of effort aft, requiring some compensating repositioning of the centreboard or mainmast, and/or a juggling of sail areas. That's a major redesign.

    I reckon that Walkabout's current tiller arrangement is flawed even if the helmswoman is happy with an indirect system. If you look at this picture of Osbert downwind on a surfing Scamp, you'll see that he has wisely tried to shift his weight aft to lift the bow. However, even with his bum beside right the rudder stock, he is 1m ahead of the stern (which uncomfortably far fwd), and his control of the tiller is seriously impeded. To clear the tiller, he needs to move forward well beyond station 7, probably up to about station 6, which is uncomfortably far forward when weight needs to be kept aft to avoid burying the bow. Even more importantly, the main boom extends aft of station 6 (see this set of lines again)... so if Osbert moved far enough forward to clear the tiller while gybing, his face would be within inches of being whacked by the clew end of the relatively low boom, and his neck at risk of getting tangled in the mainsheet. Not a good set of choices.

    So ... as far as I can see, Scamp's capsize was not Osbert's fault. It seems to me that it was an accident waiting to happen, as because of a major design flaw. I want a boat with the tiller pivoting on the transom, and while I admire John Welsford's ingenuity in his tiller design, it appears to me from the evidence so far that this particular experiment has not been successful.

    My conclusion from all this is that I should to drop Walkabout from my shortlist, unless JW is persuaded to heavily revise the design on the basis of my cheeky armchair criticisms. The boat has so many other strengths that when the time comes I will certainly ask him to look at my concerns, and JW's huge experience as a highly-respected designer gives me hope that he can either allay my concerns or fix the problem.



    Thanks for that encouragement! I'll certainly play with some designs, and see where they lead me.


    I suppose the setup on Nymph II would solve that problem, but it would be hard to shift your weight forward enough in some conditions. Nat Herrshoff favored a rudder that was controlled by lines that went all around the boat, so that you could steer from anywhere, by I've never tried that system. Maybe Walkabout needs a rethink on the rig.
    Last edited by johnw; 09-02-2011 at 01:45 PM.

  21. #91
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    23,593

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?



    Love the rig on the Tonic dinghy.

  22. #92
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Victoria, BC, Canada
    Posts
    1,111

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    That is the system that John Guzzwell used aboard Trekka. We all know how well that arrangement worked for John and Trekka.
    I just happen to have a picture of said tiller arrangement from when Trekka was in the water in Victoria a few years back.

    Alex

    "A man who is not afraid of the sea will soon be drowned, for he will be going out on a day he shouldn't. We do be afraid of the sea, and we only be drowned now and again" Aran Islands Fisherman

  23. #93
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Here & there in Texas
    Posts
    6,384

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Thank you!
    Wayne
    Somewhere in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    The Straight of Georgia looks big.
    http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/ven...isabeth+Grace/
    http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/venchka/

  24. #94
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Freeland, WA
    Posts
    26,348

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    That yoked tiller arrangement is cool, thanks for posting that photo. If you used rod and tightened everything right up, I bet you'd approximate standard tiller feel.
    Gerard>
    ​Freeland, WA

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic; save the country.

  25. #95
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    23,593

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJZimm View Post
    I just happen to have a picture of said tiller arrangement from when Trekka was in the water in Victoria a few years back.

    I think that's the arrangement Walkabout has, only it's under the deck. I can't help feeling there's got to be a way to make that work, but with the mizzen right behind the cockpit, it's a bit difficult.

  26. #96
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    23,294

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    I wonder what John Welsford would say to someone who built Walkabout as an open rowing boat with the intent to complete her deck and sailing rig at a later time?
    "It's a pirate's life for me. Savvy??"

  27. #97
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    913

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    I had a Tonic many years ago - it was a delightful little boat, much nicer than a Topper, easier to handle than a Laser and with lots of neat touches such as the mainsheet attaching to the rudder head ( I have never got on with centre mainsheets ).

    If you are considering stuff like the Eastport pram or Chester Yawl you might like the PT 11 from PT watercraft. It looks like a great boat with a good pedigree. You might even be able to use the Tonic rig from the looks of things.
    Last edited by Clarkey; 09-02-2011 at 07:10 PM.

  28. #98
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    West Australia
    Posts
    145

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Hi Alice, as a caledonia yawl owner who grew up on the lower shannon I thought I'd say hello, sorry to hear the cy is not the boat for you, it certainly isn't much fun to row but I think with your sailing experience not a problem to sail single handed but I can't help hopeing you may yet settle for smaller oughtred design. I use a push pull tiller but I have yet to come to love it, although it has its advantages. I'm thinking of using an old mast step from a windsurfer to connect it to the tiller arm, to get a more positive attachment (something similar to what James has) because I don't like the play in the setup I have at the moment but it does give you a lot of flexibility as to where you sit and thus trim the boat. Having spent a fair amount of time boat fishing for trout on lakes on the shannon and the west of Ireland (OH happy days!) I would also consider the many boulders the last ice age kindly left in our lakes and their effect on the unwary, when trout fishing we would usually concentrate on the margins of lakes and around islands but my recollection is of seeing whacking great boulders often with scuff marks from boat bottoms out in 12 ft of water and deeper too so I would be wary of using a lightly built boat myself, our family fishing boat had 1/2 inch larch clinker planks and she has taken a few knocks over the years, even when landing at a small island for lunch there are invariably plenty of smaller rocks about so stout planking would be a priority for me. Tony

  29. #99
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    SF Bay Area- Richmond
    Posts
    15,386

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    I know this thread is ancient, but in case anyone finds it while researching tiller types, there is another, very rare style of tiller designed to work around a mizzen mast -- the Bellcrank. I just bought a CY and it has a similar system to the one shown. Hard to describe but easy to picture -

    Here's the previous owner steering mine -



    And a slightly different implementation...and I think nicer...of the same Bellcrank design that keeps the tiller connection in the sheerstrake, not a lower strake as in my CY.


    Last edited by Thorne; 04-15-2018 at 07:09 PM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  30. #100
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Victoria, BC, Canada
    Posts
    1,111

    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Very elegant setup in the lower picture. Looks like heim joints (aka rose joints for those in the UK) at either end of the rod. Would give precise control of the rudder with no slop.
    Alex

    "A man who is not afraid of the sea will soon be drowned, for he will be going out on a day he shouldn't. We do be afraid of the sea, and we only be drowned now and again" Aran Islands Fisherman

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •