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Thread: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Can we keep throwing beach cruisers at you?

    Nathaniel Herreshoff's Coquina





    be sure to check out coquina's steering system...
    Last edited by Paul Pless; 06-16-2010 at 12:56 PM.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    here's a list of the weights of Iain's designs. I think actual build weights are a bit higher though. Others might confirm this with their own builds. See how Caledonia is much heavier than Arctic Tern, which you build light with 6mm ocume and cedar for thwarts and such.

    http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/boatsearch.asp

    Something not far from 100kg might be best to aim for, and lower than this if possible. My son has the plans for Arctic Tern, his possible next build, and is building Iain O's Shearwater 12' dinghy as a training run. He is using cedar extensively. Here's his blog to give you give you some ideas.

    http://boats.duncan.com/cyforum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=885

    This weight thing needs resolving. If on a mooring Arctic Tern / Sooty Tern is fine weight wise. Just a nuisance to have to keep bailing out after rain.

    If on the beach, then even 100kg needs a trolley and reasonable ramp. However go down to 50kg and a small storable on board trolley will do.

    If your crew needs were just yourself and perhaps one other, then there is a solution which meets all your needs, is handleable, affordable, you can sleep on the clear open hull floor?

    I think it's outside your "box" possibly - but Hugh Horton Bufflehead could meet all your needs except more than 2 people.



    Build blog here

    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...1&l=fd3bc9143e

    Brian
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 06-16-2010 at 03:12 PM.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Arch Davis' Penobscot 17 might also be suitable, though you won't get a clear floor to sleep (seems tough todo without the walkabout-style offset centerboard)

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Well Alice, why don't you come over some evening after work and I'll take you for a sail so you can try her out.

    I can sleep on the floorboards of Rowan under the thwarts in a pinch if I need to. I prefer to sleep ashore instead if I can for all the obvious reasons, but I have dozed aboard Rowan for hours in the past, using the sail as a sunshade, waiting for a tide change.

    The push-pull tiller is ingenious once you learn the trick of it. I know several people with sail & oar boats who use it even though they are sailing boats without mizzens just because of how useful it is for letting you sit anywhere in the boat and steer. Narrow, little sail & oar boats will require you to put your weight in the right place at the right time, and the push-pull tiller lets you do that with absolute freedom. The part sticking out sideways from the rudderhead is the actual tiller, and the length of that part is what controls your leverage. The length of the stick in your hand is irrelevant--you just use a length that is convenient. You just need to go for a sail with someone who can show you the tweaks and you'll be a natural after an hour of practice. My tiller-joint hardware made of machined bronze has zero slop or backlash and provides perfect, responsive realtime feedback. Feel free to copy that design detail or any others.

    Still, Rowan really is probably too big and heavy for you if you are mostly going to be singlehanding and aren't going to be doing long-distance cruising. She's at the upper edge of what is small enough for me solo, and I am 6' tall and 195 lbs. I think the Arctic Tern might be a better fit. It'll look almost the same and have 90% of the capacity, certainly. A Tirrik would be another fine choice at about 60% of the capacity of a Sooty Tern. Still big enough for three adults for crowded but fun daysailing.
    Last edited by James McMullen; 06-16-2010 at 04:07 PM.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by AliceThrewTheLookingGlass View Post
    [see disclaimer in prev post]


    I was fascinated by Don Kurylko's Alaska 18. It's a very elegant and intelligent design, answering a similar set of questions to mine. However, I have reservations.

    *I don't like the complication of jib and bowsprit and the stresses that causes on an unstayed mast, but I do like the simple and direct tiller setup permitted by the transom and the resulting offset mizzen.*

    For me, the helm isn't just a steering device, it's a sensitive mechanism for communicating with the boat and the water, and my head says that this critical communication must inevitably be diluted by an indirect helm and blunted by the stubby little tiller on the Oughtred boats with a push-pull stick. (Of course, I have tried neither, and my hand may tell me a different story if I do try).

    But if I'm honest, the Alaska was promptly disqualified for me on aesthetic grounds. It's a stunningly handsome boat, but it seems too yachty for me. The strip-planked build looks to me like a miniature version of something that belongs in a yacht club, and I don't do yacht clubs. I'm a scruffy mongrel woman, a Scots-Irish hybrid with my roots and heart in wild places with wild people and their wild music, but the Alaska feels to me like a string quartet boat for a gentleman with a blue blazer and a lady with a fussy hat. Neither of those people is me, and before someone points out the glaring truth that it's also clearly not any of the people pictured in Don's photo galleries nor the amazing voyager Gary Lundgren, I know that. A wineglass stern to make Hershoff proud probably may have very different associations in his homeland, but despite the common language I live in a different cultural context and I just can't picture myself and the Alaska getting together.
    While I accept your rejection of her as a potential suitor on aesthetic grounds, I cannot let stand the inaccuracies in your description. She has no jib, bowsprit, nor offset mizzen. You're confusing her with another.
    Last edited by darroch; 06-16-2010 at 08:03 PM.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    What about Ross Lillistones Periwinkle design? http://www.baysidewoodenboats.com.au/

    regards,

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  7. #42
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    Cool Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Alaska and the Penobscot 17 allow for a very comfortable sleeping space level with the top of centercase.



    We are all guilty of putting too much stock in the appearance of a boat to it's audience. When you are on the business end of the boat you can't see things like a wine glass transom. It is comforting to know that such shapes evolved as the best solution to making a boat work right.

    A skin on frame whitehall derivation might be the answer to the beach haul out problem. I have an old copy of WoodenBoat with a story about an 18' skin on frame rowing/sailing boat that two people cruised Baja California in. The boat lookd similar to Alsaka and the Penobscot 17. A proven boat shape.

    http://sites.google.com/site/erichvalsoe/

    Last edited by Venchka; 06-17-2010 at 08:16 AM.
    Wayne
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    The Straight of Georgia looks big.
    http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/ven...isabeth+Grace/
    http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/venchka/

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    I have an old copy of WoodenBoat with a story about an 18' skin on frame rowing/sailing boat that two people cruised Baja California in. The boat lookd similar to Alsaka and the Penobscot 17. A proven boat shape.
    I think that boat was a double ender, a derivation of LFH's Carpenter design IIRC.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Sleeping space level with the top of the centercase is probably up above the center of the axis of rotation--not what I would consider comfortable when a boat wake came by. Do you want to be rocked in a hammock or try to stay put on top of a barrel? Down on the floorboards seems much more preferable to me.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Nothing to add here, but an awesome thread and an awesome first post by the OP - great information for people to get started with!
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  11. #46
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    If we are going to talk "Skin on Frame" and this will be an Irish build, then we have to consider the wonderful lightweight Irish Currachs.

    http://www.mmara.ie/map.html



    Which is nearest?

    Great racing video here

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjOna5wWAmQ

    This site is a major resource on Currach building

    http://currachs.thisbetterworld.org/





    Brian
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 06-17-2010 at 10:52 AM.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Alice

    How aboat a glued lapstrake Alaska, see this thread
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...light=hornpipe

    Regards

    Nick

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Sleeping space level with the top of the centercase is probably up above the center of the axis of rotation--not what I would consider comfortable when a boat wake came by. Do you want to be rocked in a hammock or try to stay put on top of a barrel? Down on the floorboards seems much more preferable to me.
    Indeed ! So when it comes to my JIM design ,I think a little bit of Doug Hylan's SIRI might have to enter the fray ,specifically a 5" deep external keel to house the centreboard and so allow a slightly raised (say 3") sole and a flat floor very close to the waterline The cross thwart might have to be removable .It's not going to help the rowing situation as it will increase the wetted area,it's a trade off and I think overnighting aboard will win .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    NickW, Alaska sure is pretty, how could anybody dislike that stern! Not just pretty, purposeful, just right I would say.



    Brian

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Paul,
    Maybe. I'll check the article when I gat back to Houston.
    James,
    It's a coin toss. Room to spread out vs. reduced rock and roll.

    The lapstrake Alaska looks very right and proper.
    Wayne
    Somewhere in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    The Straight of Georgia looks big.
    http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/ven...isabeth+Grace/
    http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/venchka/

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    What about an Umiak?

    Lightweight, double ended goodness, easily removable thwarts, deliciously good looks?


  17. #52
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Find yourself a Mirror dinghy (or other small dinghy) capable of row and/or sail and you'll find that: A) your back hurts less, and B) you take her out a lot more because of 'A'.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Hi from Scotland

    the Duck Trap's Christmas Wherry has already been mentioned and I second that. I built mine from 9mm ply and built in flotation boxes, so it's quite heavy to row. Would be much easier in 6mm ply. I rigged her with a sprit sail and built a daggerboard forward to get her to balance, and in so doing cleared the internal space. She's a delight to sail and really seaworthy. I've sailed her in some pretty stoory conditions and tide rips here (Argyll) with no problems.

    You can get a kit of planks pre-cut from Jordan Boats in Fife for about 1200 euros. This would take some months off the building time and ensure a well-lined hull.

    Please send me a private message if you want more info.

    Bye

    Ewan
    Ewan G Kennedy

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Gavin Atkin has a design, the Light Trow inspired by a Dorset inshore fishing boat, which meets your practical specs completely, looks miight be ok too. It's just been updated to a MKII version which includes a sleeping platform and building in S+T from a kit from Alec Jordan. Plans are a free download from Gavin at the link below. Why not download the plans, have a good read of Ben's Blog and away you go....



    http://intheboatshed.net/2010/05/18/...now-available/

    Ben Cranshaw has been sailing and rowing one in the Mediterranean. His blog is here,

    http://theinvisibleworkshop.blogspot.com/
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 06-30-2010 at 02:59 AM.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    I'm a woman who sails alone on Lake Ontario. I have been caught in all kinds of nasty bits of weather and waves. Last time was 20 Knots with 30 gusts. I have been in 6 feet waves and chop. (I don't think I enjoyed it much but I did not take in any water and did not come close to tipping.)
    I sail John Harris' Skerry from Chesapeake Light craft.
    I built her from plans but they offer nice kits. I'm no expert woodworker and I found it easy to make.
    I would forget about the standard sprit and change the rig. He offers a gunther that seems to work well. I have a larger sprit and it is working very well. Doesnt point particularly well but is a nice easy rig to handle and moves the boat as fast as it will go. I will be putting a balanced lug. It can be reefed easily.
    It is very pretty and rows nicely. You don't even have to remove the sailing rig.
    I would recommend it with no reservations.

    Chesapeake Light Craft Skerry Page:
    http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/r...inghy-kit.html

    My Build:
    http://www.christinedemerchant.com/skerry.html

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christine DeMerchant View Post
    I'm a woman who sails alone on Lake Ontario. I have been caught in all kinds of nasty bits of weather and waves. Last time was 20 Knots with 30 gusts. I have been in 6 feet waves and chop. (I don't think I enjoyed it much but I did not take in any water and did not come close to tipping.)
    I sail John Harris' Skerry from Chesapeake Light craft.
    Those are rough conditions for a Skerry! I wouldn't do it myself without modifications to improve the ability to recover from a capsize. A fellow named David Bixby capsized his Skerry ("Bonnie Dune") a few years back, and wrote a detailed account for the Skerry owners and builders forum. it's worth reading if you haven't seen it.
    .

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Yes I have read David's account. I have also done the usual capsize drill. I learned that I would have to dismast in order to keep it righted because the sprit rig is top heavy. I have set up my mast so that is not hard to do. Once the mast is slipped off then the boat rights itself (possibly because of the bumpers I have) and is extremely easy to re enter and bail. I'm not sure I could have emptied it if the conditions had been really awful but it would have stayed upright. I wrote about the test: http://www.christinedemerchant.com/capsizerecovery.html (Unfortunately David Bixby's link doesn't work any more.)
    I agree that my examples were quite extreme conditions and not ones I would deliberately go out in, but it doesnt take long for the weather to change drastically on lake Ontario and its reassuring that my little Skerry was able to get me through with no problems at all. I was pretty scaired though. Lake Ontario is really cold too. In the spring I sail with a short wet suit.
    I think the Skerry is happiest between 10-15 kt wind. Waves above 3 feet start to make me pay attention.

    The bottom line is that most of the boats that have been mentioned here would be capable of coming through rough conditions if the skipper handled her properly and was not too unlucky.
    Christine

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Hello,

    row and sail boats are class of its own and there are not many boats around if you put the Dories out of your possible designs. For a row and sail the slim and "classic inspired" double enders are best.

    Iwould go with the "Estrid", you can find it here:

    http://vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/index.p...L=0&tx_ttboats[tt_boats]=26&tx_ttboats[backPid]=1301&cHash=f38192a2bb6b59fda120907ef7c1b008


    a little long and perhaps but a really beautifull boat going along with the irish tradition.

    OK, I stop kidding now!

    For my taste the CY or the NY is a little to big for one . I would go with the arctic tern or the J2, the biggest boats for one to row comfortably.

    If the look with a flat bottom and two strakes each side is ok for you go the skerryskiff 17

    http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/detai...kerrieskiff+17


    Grrreetings from the North Sea Coast, Michel

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    http://vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/index.p...L=0&tx_ttboats[tt_boats]=26&tx_ttboats[backPid]=1301&cHash=f38192a2bb6b59fda120907ef7c1b008

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    ok, link is to long try copy and insert!

    Its worth it, Estrid is a beautyful boat!

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Oh sorry, forgot the Elfyn as a smaller option and easier to build because it has only four planks per side.

    http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/details.asp?Name=Elfyn

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christine DeMerchant View Post
    I learned that I would have to dismast in order to keep it righted because the sprit rig is top heavy. I have set up my mast so that is not hard to do.
    Pete Culler wrote about using the whole rig as a sort of sea anchor ...

    The rig can be taken in rapidly in the event of weather making. If need be, once the knack is learned, the whole thing can be thrown overboard to leeward, still spreeted out, on a slack but fast sheet (dont lose the end!) and ridden to as a sort of sea anchor until such time as its convenient to drag it aboard and furl it. A very handy thing to know, yet the knowledge of this trick has nearly been lost."

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Alice: Have you looked at Francois Vivier's YOUKOU-LILI?

    She's an 18-foot long double-ender, not unlike some of Iain Oughtred's boats but with a narrow flat bottom. I mention her in part because your original post says that you want to build from a kit, and kits for YouKou-Lili are available on both sides of the Atlantic. (But also just because she's a beautiful boat.)

    http://www.vivierboats.com/html/stoc...ar.html#youkou

    Last edited by Steve Paskey; 07-05-2010 at 09:00 PM.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    I'd say Elfyn or Tirrik, if you really love Ian Oughtreds boats. Do you really need a 19 foot boat? Tirrik rigged as a gunter sloop would be pretty quick on her feet and if your aesthetic sense says "lug" then go that route.

    I've seen a CLC skerry built from a kit and it's so close to what I've designed myself, that it's eerie. The hull is absolutely lovely, and you can build it yourself from a kit. My parameters and yours are much the same, except that I sail on San Francisco Bay, and I'm a 280 pound dude. There's enough room to lie down in a Skerry, if you recline in the aft half of the boat and are willing to prop your knees up a bit.

    Finally, I have one more thing to say that will probably raise the ire of many on this board. You know what you like. You are not stupid. You have sailed. you know what sailing a mirror dinghy is like. You have some sort of reasonable idea what will work. So......design your own.

    Your vision. Your boat. Do you want to build stitch and glue-epoxy-plywood? Then get the Carlson Design Hulls program (it's a free download) and build some cardboard or balsa or thin-sheet plywood models of what you think you like. Refine..refine. Draw some fair curves where the computer cannot. Keep your goal in mind. And then, in a few months, or a year, buy some plywood and get to work.
    Last edited by Alan H; 07-09-2010 at 08:37 PM.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by luckystrike118 View Post
    Oh sorry, forgot the Elfyn as a smaller option and easier to build because it has only four planks per side.

    http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/details.asp?Name=Elfyn
    Actually, Elfyn has three planks per side. Per the plans it can be built with either partial decks fore and aft or the traditional wrangs. Since my Elfyn is very much still a work in progress, I can't say whether it will fit your needs. It is intended to be a row and sail boat.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    bump. If you're out there Alice, take a look a this thread:
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...il-and-or-fans

    It's another interesting candidate known as a "Salty Heaven."


  32. #67
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Paskey View Post
    bump. If you're out there Alice, take a look a this thread:
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...il-and-or-fans

    It's another interesting candidate known as a "Salty Heaven."

    Oooh...I've never seen that. That's nice!

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Have fun choosing your boat Alice! Not quite what you are looking for, but I'll be building a Pocketship designed by John C. Harris of CLC Boats...
    I'm still not sure how well it will work out for rowing, but I was going to tow a dinghy which should row well with the PocketShip behind if ever needed. Without the dinghy, a yulloh might work better than oars.

    Keith
    Attached Images Attached Images

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Dia dhuit ! Is mise patrice an Fhrainc (T m ag foghlaim na Gaeilge). I follow this thead since it has been posted. Curious to see what you 've finally decided to built...
    As far as i am concerned, the oughtred's CY is a sleek and gorgeous design, don't let that be a question of weight (if so the ness Yawl will suit) and the help of a small outboard is not an heresy for you 'll appreciate it in a lot of conditions (rowing against a strong wind or simply wanting to get fast to the pub)...
    bail o Dhia ar an obair!

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Which wooden sailing dinghy for one woman? Caledonia yawl?

    Dear Alice, you have opened up pandora's box of opinions on a perfect boat for you, Most, if not all, are good considerations for you.

    My opinion you may also consider.

    Another forumite mentioned LE SEIL by Francois Vivier.
    you said you want a wooden boat, well you have 2 options with Le Seil,
    it is a set of plans for plywood construction, and is also a GRP hull with wooden benches,wooden mast,rubrails, floorboards, cleats etc...
    It will run rings around a drascome, and do it safely, I was on a leseil and we won in class Sail Caledonia! it is a very easy boat to sail,row and in general a very good boat, please read the PDF which is a copy of the article I wrote about the boat in 2004

    it is also available in kit form, If I was you I would find a used grp one(it has plenty of pretty wood on it and you can have it NOW if you find one),they are sought after and hold their value very well.check with the le seil association (over 100 hulls built)
    the company,who was also a friend of mine, went bankrupt sadly.

    www.vivierboats.com/Img/watercraft47seil.pdf

    There's one rich man onboard and there's twentyfive poor men and they enjoy it more then the rich man does -Jim Kilroy when asked if yacht racing is a rich mans sport.

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