Charles Wittholz 17 foot Cat

[ddeaton]

Any comments on this design? I am thinking of adding it to my project list. Would it be too cramped with a small inboard?

my current project is a Arch Davis Penobscot 17

[Venchka]

Boat Design Quarterly No. 20 has a nice review of the boat with enough drawings to answer all of your questions. You can buy it from our hosts at the WoodenBoat Store. There is room for an inboard, but it uses up a lot of the cockpit and makes the cockpit non-self-bailing. This is a BIG hunk of 17' boat. 3,080 pounds worth. You could carry the Penobscot 17 as cargo.

Wayne
In the Swamp.

[ddeaton]

Thanks for the info. I will order and read the review. I have the plans already, and this would be my dream boat. Big enough to moor in the local freshwater pond here in the Ohio Valley and camp in.

[Venchka]

If you have the plans, don't they show a cockpit variation with an inboard?

Wayne
In the Swamp.

[ddeaton]

Yes, the plans show the detail. But with my limited experiance, it all looks good on paper. I guess I need to be realistic and think about what would be best. I just dont like the thought of hanging a outboard on that size cat. I need to research and learn more about all this. Seems like all I have been doing is reading and working on the Penobscot.
Love it.

[JimD]

One thing that has always impressed me about the Whittholz catboats is the rig options include a sloop.

[Venchka]

Read B.D.Q. The boat works fine with a 6hp outboard. The inboard occupies a lot of the cockpit. Eliminates the self-bailing feature. Those two wrongs don't quite make a right in my mind. Do the plans show the keel version as well? Getting rid of the centerboard might work if the keel doesn't make more problems than it cures. I assume their is a gaff sail shown for the marconi challenged? Sloop? Huh? There's a jib headed main shown. Sorry, Jim, but marconi main and catboat is an oxymoron in my brain.

Wayne
In the Swamp.

[ddeaton]

Yes, the plans show a keel version. I might trailer this as well, so I may opt for the centerboard. I just purchased a 14' plastic Handycat and will pick it up tomorrow. I cant wait to learn to sail the gaff rig. There is a used Whitholtz on the Catboat Association web site for sale. Sounds like it needs some work though.

[JimD]

Sorry, Jim, but marconi main and catboat is an oxymoron in my brain.

Who said anything about marconi? Am I mistaken about the gaff sloop option for the 17er? There is definitely a sloop rig for his 20 foot Madam Tirza and Livaboard.

[Venchka]

A sloop rig wasn't mentioned in the BDQ article. Just a jib headed and gaff main.

There's a decent Peep Hen for sale in Florida. Not a bad way to go if a cat boat is in your brain.

Wayne
In the Swamp.

[JimD]

These are the descriptions of the rigs offered on a number of the Wittholz catboats. This cut and paste from the The WoodenBoat Store for Madam Tirza. Note the third option. Call it what you like.

Sail Area : Gaff cat - 338 sq. ft.
Marconi cat - 315 sq. ft.
Gaff sloop - 406 sq. ft.

[ 04-30-2005, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: JimD ]

[Venchka]

Look at the article I sent you way back when. Sloop isn't mentioned for the 17'.

Wayne
In the Swamp.

[JimD]

Originally posted by Venchka:
Look at the article I sent you way back when. Sloop isn't mentioned for the 17'.

Wayne
In the Swamp.

Wayne, I believe you. Ken Hankinson also sold the plans for her and I thought his website also showed the sloop option but looks like I'm mistaken and there's no more Hankinson website. Anyway...

ddeaton, I like her too, but this catboat is a boxy single chine affair and although she has a catboat profile her dimensions look quite similar to probably quite a few other beamy v bottom plywood boats. She might end up looking quite homely compared to your Penobscot. She would be quick and easy to build but as a dreamboat the round bottomed Fenwick Williams design would look a lot dreamier, albeit a lot more work to build, either carvel or strip.

[Venchka]

Originally posted by JimD:
... She would be quick and easy to build

I wouldn't count on it. There's a massive keel & deadwood structure to piece together and drift. Gusseted frames galore.

This skeleton takes considerable time to erect and fair, but it forms a solid foundation to build upon.
Mike O'brien.

The 3,000+ pounds can't be all lead. There is 600 pounds of lead and 11 sq. ft. of 3/8" steel. The rest is mostly wood. The good news is a 17 gallon water tank. You could stay gone a good long while with that much water. Hmmmmm...

Wayne
In the Swamp.

[ 05-01-2005, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[ddeaton]

You are right about being a little boxey. I guess I am comfortable with building a ply boat like this, but maybe I better try some traditional building on a smaller scale and shoot for the better looking lines. I am learning more every day.

[Venchka]

Get him in the 12 step program pronto! In the course of this discussion you've talked about building at least 3 boats. You are one of the Clan now.

Build what you want. Just realize the size of the project first. If it fits your time frame, budget, stick-to-it-ness, trailer and tow vehicle scheme then go for it!

ps: Finish the first boat. You may be having too much fun with it to think about building another boat.

Wayne
In the Swamp.

[ 05-01-2005, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[ddeaton]

Wayne,
I did another bad thing. I was starting to get in too big a rush on the Penobscot, so I bought a 1971 Cape Dory Handycat. Plastic, yes, but im on the water now and learning a traditional rig. Now, I can focus on building. I do need the program!

[Venchka]

Getting on the water is never a bad thing. Learning is never a bad thing. Planning the next boat before the current one is finished...that's another thing. Not sure if it's good or bad.

Wayne
In the Swamp.

[JimD]

I wouldn't count on it...

Well there's the difference 'tween you an me, Wayne. I would. Gluing up dead wood is easy. Just stack 2x4s or 2x6s or whatever appropriate dimensions are required, clamp 'em with glue in between, and shape with power plane, belt sander, whatever. Do most of the shaping of the individual boards before gluing even better. Quite straight forward. As for plywood gussetting sawn frames, its a snap. Nothing easier. I take Mr Obrien's comments with salt. You are still dealing with very straight forward basic carpentry for the most part. Of course boats are more work as they get bigger and this is a 17 foot catboat, not a 17 foot kayak but still no steam bending, no keel rabbet and garboards to fit. No perfectly fitted planks to caulk, etc.

[JimD]

Ddeaton, I took study plans for a larger Wittholz plywood catboat with very similar lines to the 17 and redrew it as a double chine, made a 30" plywood model of the hull and lofted a 12' version for a dinghy I may one day build. The extra chine half way from the existing bilge chine to the sheer gives her a much nicer appearance and changes the hull only very nominally. It was a fun and easy little project to do. Something you might wish to consider.

[Railmeat]

Dad has a 17' Witholtz cat at about 85% complete that has been in the barn for 20 years. He's trying to sell it reasonable if you're interested.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Railmeat got a photo?

I cant believe I'm even asking. But but but its a catboat

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
Railmeat got a photo?

I cant believe I'm even asking. But but but its a catboat

There is just no explaining some folk's kids.

Wayne
In the Swamp.

[ 05-02-2005, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[ddeaton]

This is great, I am getting all sorts of answers. My problem is that I am stuck down here in Cincy right in the middle of New England and Washington. I need to start building traditional just to give up the shipping costs on plywood. You are right though, I need to see if this one floats before I go wild with my plans. So far so good though. Thanks for all the help guys.

[Railmeat]

Will work on getting pics from Dad. Stay tuned.

Don