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Thread: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

  1. #1
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    Default Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Hey Everyone!

    My name is Matt and I'm building a copy of a Danish double-ender that was built on Bornholm Island in 1900. For those of you who know Russ Manheimer here on the WB forum, you may have already heard about this project, as he has previously posted some pics of my boat for me. I have a few more snaps to show my latest progress. I am now finishing up the caulking of the deck and seam compound, etc. Soon I'll be onto the cabin trunk which I will laminate out of 3 layers of wana. Please comment or ask questions. I hope you enjoy the pics!

    Cheers,

    Matt



    http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...s/IMG_1433.jpg

    http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...s/IMG_0497.jpg

    http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...s/IMG_0869.jpg
    Last edited by Matt Billey; 05-10-2010 at 04:13 PM. Reason: trying to get the pics show

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Very nice, Matt, thanks for sharing.



    Steven

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    is this boat trunnel fastened?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Nice !




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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Yes Paul, my boat is trunnel fastened through the frames and peg fastened through the laps.

    M

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    Thumbs up Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    This looks amazing. I'd love to see more photos and hear some details about your project. What kind of wood for the frames and how about the trunnels?


    - Brent


    I am not young enough to know everything.

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Hey Wintermutt,

    Thanks for the kind words. The frames are made from hackmatack, oak and black locust. All of the floor timbers are hack. All of the trunnels and lap-pegs are black locust. Here are a few more pics. Is there anything specific you'd like to know about the boat?

    Matt










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    Thumbs up Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Well, I'm fascinated by your trunnel fastenings. Do you think it saved you much on the cost of fasteners, or did you more than make up for that savings with the extra time (if any) involved in this system?

    Were the trunnels turned or hewn with a drawknife, or . . . ? Did you use wedges to secure them? How about epoxy? Did you use any adhesive in the laps?

    What's your LOA and what plans are you working from? Was the original 1900 boat fastened similarly? Do you have any references for a project like this?

    What wood is your decking? Fir?

    Sorry for all the dumb questions.

    Thanks

    - Brent


    I am not young enough to know everything.

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Wow! That is a gorgeous boat. Puts my lapstrake construction skills to shame. Keep the pictures and info coming- I'm looking forward to learning a thing or two.

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Hi Matt,

    Nice to see some progress. Welcome to the WBF.

    What is the difference between the trunnels and the pegs used to fasten the laps? I assume the dark color on the planks is from linseed oil. Will the frames turn a similar color? Great stuff.

    Have you figured out a spot for the stove?

    Looking forward to regular updates.

    Russ
    Hove to off Swan Point......

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    I was just at the Roskilda Museum in Denmark. They would be proud to see the quality of work you have done. They are very jealous of Black Locust and would love to have more over there. They are working on a 28ft centerbaord "eel boat" right now that has very similar construction details to yours. I think I have a few pix of the build if you want to see them please e-mail me at bioelf@mindspring.com

    I just designed a small sail boat based loosely on the Fredriksundjolle (sp?), and Swedish kosters, but smaller and ply glue lap---not real boat building like yours! I have two of these boats being built in WA for my kids right now. Really they are like a Jolle slapped into a Beetle cat and fused with a glue lap boat. Love to show you the desings and get your opinion.

    Love to come and see your progress some time. I am in CT and go my your spot every so often. I just love those hefty stanchions. How long have you been building her? Where did you get the plans? Are you using raw linseed or boiled to soak planking, with tar I assume and terp?? Will you be doing a sprit rig or gaff? Just fantastic!!!!!.

    Since you seem to like the sacany double enders, have look at this.... http://www.woodenboatrescue.org/Swed...estoration.htm not the same workboat quality you have there, but still nice.

    I also have a small double ender for free at WBRF, 1920s and looks like a jolle or sorts, but made in USA. Single cyl Vire Finnish inboard and gunter rig. Spread the word to any scandy double ender lovers - feel free to give out my e-mail for pix of this one too.

    Keep up the good work, I wish I had your skills!

    Cheers, Bruce

  12. #12

    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    great work fellas

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Bruce,

    Can you share your design and pics with us? Sounds interesting. What size are they?

    Thanks,

    Russ
    Hove to off Swan Point......

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Quality boat and super work,keep the pics coming. I have a Koster K25 class, with a similar look down below, chunky oak frames, gives a lot of confidence. Whats the estimate on displacement?

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    In response to Wintermutt's questions;

    There was a considerable amount of time put into making those trunnels, but I think it nearly balanced out compared to buying large copper square shank nails and dished roves. I made the trunnels in batches. Mass producing them in this way, I was able to produce a single trunnel in about 2 minutes or so. If I was to do it again, I'd probably shell out for the rivets, to save time. But since the original boat was fastened with trunnels, I wanted to do that too and gain some experience with them. Both the lap pegs and the frame trunnels have a swelled head on the outside. Soon I will post some pics of both the trunnels and pegs and the devices which I made to create them. The swelled end is on the outside and mates up with a matching countersink in the planking. I split the trunnels with the band-saw and wedged from the inside. When I first started planking the boat, I was using a little bit of 5200 on the heads of the pegs, but later abandoned that when a Danish master-shipwright told me that wasn't necessary. Instead I dabbed the heads with some pine tar as a preservative. There is no adhesive between planks at the laps. I did paint the laps with shellac and smeared a small amount of bedding compound to make up for any holidays. Also, there is a very small caulking bevel at the laps. This is to allow a few strands of cotton wicking to be lightly set in place. The same shipwright told me this was for a little extra insurance in the spring when the boat first goes in the water and hasn't fully swelled tight. The LOA is just over 27 feet (25 Danish feet). The Danish inch is a little bigger than the English inch! I'm not kidding either. I lofted the boat using this old-timey measuring system. I got an abbreviated set of plans from the Seafaring Museum at Kronberg Castle in Denmark and created my own table of offsets from the basic lines drawing. This museum houses all of Christian Nielsen's drawings from when he travelled around Denmark by bicycle and measured many of the old boats he came across. This is much like what Howard Chapelled did in this country. I first became aware of this boat "Haabet" in his book "Wooden Boat Designs". You were right in guessing that the deck in Douglas fir.

    Matt
    Last edited by Matt Billey; 05-11-2010 at 03:16 PM. Reason: adding more detailed info

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    In response to Russ Manheimer's questions.....

    As far as I know, pegs are simply a specialized kind of trunnel. When I met Bill Gilkerson in Nova Scotia, he was emphatic about calling the lap trunnels pegs. I didn't ask him why he was so emphatic. The laps pegs are smaller than the frame trunnels. When I think of a peg, I think of a small wooden dowel or whathaveyou. Whatever the case, everyone will know what you're talking about if you call a lap peg a lap trunnel. As you know, there are a million different ways to say the same thing in boat building.

    The planking is dark from linseed oil, as you guessed. When I first set the boat up, it was outside between two pine trees in some friends' yard. Then I moved the boat to Gloucester and she was still outside to the weather. For a while, she had a basic tarp roof over her, but that was it. As you may know, linseed oil darkens quite a lot from being in the sun. You can see from the photos that the first planks were out in the weather the longest, until finally when I got the sheerplanks on, after I moved her to her present location and built a shed around her, the upper planks are bright and new looking. In places I've scraped away some of the dark oil to discover bright and new looking oak beneath. Since I put the frames in her after I moved her into the shed, they won't get dark in the same way the early planking has. They just won't see the harsh sunlight, having a deck over them. They have turned a nice golden color which comes with age, but they won't get black.

    You asked if I have a spot picked out for my stove. I'm thinking I'll put a cute little enameled Sardine either to the left or the right as you come down the companionway. Depending on which way the door opens, I may want it on one side or the other. Do you know Navigator offers a glass insert now for the Sardine and the next size up (Little Cod?). That could be very attractive. As far as the placement of the stove goes, I've read somewhere that it is better to place the stove farther into the cabin, away from the companionway. Supposedly, you can have draft troubles if you have it too close to the companionway. Russ, do you have any true knowledge on this subject?

    Matt

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Beautiful.
    Looking forward to following your progress.
    Keep the photos coming please!

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    In response to questions from OEX (Bruce)........

    Hey, I'd love to see your drawings of your new design. I'm sure there are others on the forum that would also.

    You are more than welcome to stop in and have a peak at my project whenever you pass through the Northshore area. Just give me a little heads-up, so I can be sure I'll be there.

    I've been building my boat in my spare time for 8 years. It's hard to believe it's been that long. A lot has happened in my life in that time. Finally, I feel like I can see the end of the tunnel. For the longest time, I was in the "Valley of Despair". It can be frustrating to find at the end of a Saturday, that you have only fit and fastened 1 1/2 frames. The planking was a very drawn out process too. I admire the guys who can put a round of planking on a boat like this in one day. The closest I came to that was one strake in one day. A couple of strakes in the middle of the boat had to be done in three sections, due to the amount of shape in the hull. Both sheerstrakes were full-length pieces. I was pretty amazed to see how straight they were when laid flat on the ground.......

    While planking, I slathered everything with a mixture of raw linseed and turps or kerosene, if I didn't have or couldn't afford turps. Similarly, I soaked the backbone with kerosene. Talking with Bud McIntosh's long-time protege, Gordon Swift, he said he loved kerosene for it's preservative properties. And it's cheap too!

    "Jette", as I will call her, will have her original gaff cutter rig. The mainsail will be loose-footed. No boom. The bowsprit will be unstayed and set to the starboard-side of the stem. It tight quarters, it will be very easy to reef and haul inboard in a short amount of time. There will be a yard tops'l, looking like a standing-lug sail, set at the top of the long pole-mast with no topmast. It has always been my plan to keep the rig as original as possible. I will be lengthening the mast on the recommendation of a Danish master-shipwright friend of mine. He says the wind is much stronger in Denmark. If I was to build the rig as shown in the plans, she'd be under-canvassed for New England waters. I've decided to go up by one set of reef points. His suggestion was to go up, but no back. I'm guessing going up will give you more area without bringing the center of effort too far back. We'll see how she behaves. I may have to makes adjustments as time goes along.

    Please show pics of your free-for-the-taking small double-ender. I'm not really in the market for ANOTHER boat, but I'd love to take a look nonetheless.

    Thanks very much for the kind words regarding my project. It's so nice to hear from people who appreciate this kind of thing. Most people couldn't care less.

    Matt

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    In response to Skaraborgcraft's questions.......

    As I mentioned earlier, about 8 years ago, I went to Nova Scotia and met Bill and Kirsten Gilkersen. As many of you know, they own "Elly", an original Swedish double-ended fishing boat converted to yacht, dating from 1875-ish. She is essentially the same size as my boat. She is the same length, a little wider and built even heavier, if you can imagine that. As an example, her planking is roughly 1 1/4 inches OAK! and her frames measure 4 inches by 5 inches OAK!. With ballast, Bill thinks she displaces around 5 1/2 or 6 tons. So, with my boat being a tad smaller and slightly less beefy, she should be around 5 tons. Just a rough guess.

    Matt

  20. #20

    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Wow what a project. When Russ posted some of your pictures here and on his blog I ran out to buy Nielsen's "Wooden Boat Designs" often wondered about plans. Thanks for sharing. Great work; far beyond my limited skills.

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    Thumbs up Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Thanks Matt. 8 years and counting - Wow, that's tenacity.

    Did the joggled frames go in after the planking? Must have been quite a process.

    - Brent


    I am not young enough to know everything.

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Very impressive Matt , quite marvelous and I love the bit about the Danish inches !
    Try to work out what the marketing guy wants you to do then do precisely the opposite.

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Matt,

    I thought about placing the stove aft but thought it would be in the way and the draft affected. With it forward, the heat doesn't escape so readily out the hatch. Also the smoke head forward doesn't get in the way as much. I still have occasional draft problems on a Starboard tack with such a short run. I'd imagine your stove pipe would be longer.

    I think I'd like to stop by this summer as well. Will you be around in early August?

    Russ

    Ps. Any thoughts about coming to the WoodenBoat Show?
    Hove to off Swan Point......

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Hey Russ,

    Thanks for the thoughts on stove positioning. I like where you have your stove on Sjogin, but it kind of kills my idea of having bunks on boths side of the boat. I don't feel like I have many options. Well, I guess I can just try it and see how it works. If it doesn't work, I'll make a new plan then.

    I do plan to be around Cape Ann in August. Don't hesitate to drop by. It would be fun to meet you in person and talk boats and whathaveyou.

    As of now, I don't really have any plans to go the WoodenBoat show at Mystic. I really like seeing workboats and there usually aren't enough of them there to make it worth my while to go. Quite a while ago, I used to go to the Small Craft Meet at Mystic with lots of small boaties in attendance. I think they hold that in early June. Depending on what I have going on, I may be there this year.

    Matt

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Billey View Post
    In response to Wintermutt's questions;

    The LOA is just over 27 feet (25 Danish feet). The Danish inch is a little bigger than the English inch! I'm not kidding either. I lofted the boat using this old-timey measuring system. I got an abbreviated set of plans from the Seafaring Museum at Kronberg Castle in Denmark and created my own table of offsets from the basic lines drawing. Matt
    Thank you! Thank you! You're comment above solves a mystery that has been bugging me for many years now.

    I obtained a set of plans for the famous J. Laurent Giles "Dyarchy" pilot cutter maybe twelve years ago from the Giles firm for the purpose of building a model (which I've framed up and set aside while other projects press). The original Dyarchy was, IIRC, built in Sweden or Denmark back in the late '30's. The plans are bilingual: "oak" is "ek" and stuff like that. The plans are drawn to a scale neither I nor the present naval architects at the Giles firm were able to explain: 1:12.5 or "one inch equals twelve and a half inches." We never could figure out why Giles used this scale instead of one inch equals one foot. It certainly isn't any usual architectural scale. We guessed maybe it was to confound people who might try to copy undimensioned study plan lines published in various books and magazines in order to build without paying for the rights to the design. To further confuse the matter, the length of the boat was described in contemporary literature at varying lengths, such as 43' or 46'. I ended up "shrinking" a foot ruler scale on a copy machine to make a 12.5" "foot" ruler and then have worked from this scale that reads the plans in US feet.

    Now it appears clear. While I haven't done the math to reconcile the various published measurements of the boat with the measurements on the original designer's drawings, it is now apparent that Giles drew the plans with the intended builders in mind, providing them with dimensions based on the 12.5" Schandahoovian "foot."

    Mystery solved! Ya learn something new in here every day.

    Nice boat ya got there, too!
    Last edited by Bob Cleek; 05-12-2010 at 11:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    Thank you! Thank you! You're comment above solves a mystery that has been bugging me for many years now.

    ...

    Mystery solved! Ya learn something new in here every day.

    Nice boat ya got there, too!
    Stuff like this is why I love this forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    Double-enders are optimistic.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Billey View Post
    In response to questions from OEX (Bruce)........

    Hey, I'd love to see your drawings of your new design. I'm sure there are others on the forum that would also.



    Please show pics of your free-for-the-taking small double-ender. I'm not really in the market for ANOTHER boat, but I'd love to take a look nonetheless.

    Thanks very much for the kind words regarding my project. It's so nice to hear from people who appreciate this kind of thing. Most people couldn't care less.

    Matt
    Here are the lines and plans details---will get it into a kit form soon.
    Last edited by OEX; 05-13-2010 at 01:16 PM. Reason: save room

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Matt, for some stupid reason I cannot find my Roskilde photos. But their site, which i am sure you are more familiar with than I am, has some great updated pictures of the Eal boat in build. Also a nice little video of the eel boat as well as the Jolle I am using as a slight base to my boat design.

    I know i have a load of pix of the Viking Ship museum Roskilde somewhere---I will find them asap

    cheers, Bruce

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    By the looks of all my pictures, I must have been in the middle of the aft section designs and rudder of the Deer Isle Koster.......... Ya think?

    Could not resist the shot of Havhingsten fra Glendalough looking less free than a few month earlier.

    cheers

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Wow--I am repeatedly humbled by the ability and hard work of the craftsmen who post to this site.
    Chuck Thompson

    1955 18' Chris Craft Continental
    1950 30' Chris Craft Express
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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Nice video of the guys building a similar boat in Denmark. Soren, head guy there will be happy to see your work Matt.

    http://www.podhandle.dk/showsingle.asp?epid=7339&iid=12

    cheers, Bruce

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Hey there everybody. In case you are curious, here are a few pics of the trunnel making machines I made. As you can see, they are basically over-sized pencil sharpeners. I rough-turned the square blanks on my lathe, then went the rest of the way with the trunnel makers. Let me know if you have any questions.

    Matt





    Last edited by Matt Billey; 05-24-2010 at 09:15 PM. Reason: fuss with photos

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    this just gets better all the time!!!!

    thanks Matt

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Billey View Post
    Hey there everybody. In case you are curious, here are a few pics of the trunnel making machines I made.
    Now that is cool...
    -- John

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    Check out my blog: http://www.unlikelyboatbuilder.com
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    Thumbs up Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Thanks Matt, those are really neat little machines. Did you chuck the Black Locust in a drill, or turn them by hand when you were 'sharpenning' them?

    - Brent


    I am not young enough to know everything.

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Hi Brent,

    In response to your question about how I did the final shaping of the trunnels........

    I milled the trunnel blanks to a size that fits snug inside a 36 mm socket (the same sized socket that you can use to remove the big nut from an air-cooled Volkswagen Beetle cooling fan!) I cut the female end off of a ratchet extension, then chucked that up in my Milwaukee "Hole Shooter" drill motor. Once the trunnels were rough-turned on my lathe, I spun then into my "pencil sharpeners". It took a little fussing to get the irons set properly. But once I did, the whole thing worked the bomb!

    In fitting a trunnel in the boat, I had to first drill a shank-sized hole and then run in a specially made countersink bit. The countersink matched up perfectly with the swelled portion of the trunnel. So, the idea was to drive the trunnel in just snug, not hard. I was afraid of splitting the plank by driving the trunnel too hard. On the inside, I split the end of the trunnel with the bandsaw then drove a wedge across the grain of the inside plank.

    Matt

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Hey everybody,

    Does anyone reading this have any experience with TDS (Teak Decking System) caulking products. I've chosen to use it on my fir deck, thinking that if it will stick to teak, it ought to stick pretty well to fir. Any thoughts?

    Matt




  38. #38
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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    I've redone a number of my seams on my Alaskan yellow cedar deck with TDS last summer. Only one year is by far not a long term assessment, but thus far they look great and the application/prep went just fine.

    When doing my own research, TDS seemed to hold a pretty good reputation up here in the Pacific Northwest. I don't forsee fir being a challenge for the product, especially sense it seems more likely for the deck planks to be thicker and not a planked veneer like so many teak ones.

    Here are some photos of the project: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?t=100045
    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    Double-enders are optimistic.

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    It's beautiful! I've used TDS and it works great and is priced right. Sticks like crazy until YOU want it gone.

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Thanks for the info guys on TDS caulk. I was getting worried that it might have been formulated to work ONLY on teak and nothing else. Glad to hear some of you have had good luck with it.

    Matt

  41. #41

    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    are your covering boards keruing

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Just want to say that threads like this make life worthwhile!
    Really nice work. Clive
    Have nothing .., which you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful. - William Morris

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Peter,

    I have no idea what keruing is. I assume it's a type of wood. Am I right? Anyway, my covering boards are made from wana. You may have seen it before. It's kind of like a medium-density mahogany. I bought a ton of it from Brad Ives of Deep Water Ventures a number of years ago. I used it for the top 6 hull planks also. It is very nice to work with. Even grain, long and wide planks. Supposedly, it is very long-lasting too. We'll have to see about that.

    Matt

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    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Clive,

    Thanks for the kind words. It is remarks like that that help keep me going ahead with the whole thing.

    Cheers,

    Matt

  45. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    central cal
    Posts
    233

    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Re: trunnel pencil sharpeners.

    Not only are you skilled, you are smart. Consider your trunnel maker idea stolen; I use trunnels on SOF boats and furniture (gots to pay the bills). My spokeshave is going on vacation!

    Your dovetail, by the way, is what I judged your skill by, as much as the rest of your beautiful craft. Lovely work, lovely boat.

  46. #46
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    317

    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Amish Rob,

    I wish I could say I invented those "pencil sharpener" trunnel machines. I actually stole the idea from someone else! That's how it goes it seems. I'll happily take the credit though.

    Matt

  47. #47

    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Great thread..

  48. #48
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    317

    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    I just did some sanding of the foredeck. She's starting to look down right boatie. I'm trying to decided now about what to put on the deck for a finish. I like the simplicity of linseed, turps and pine tar, but don't like how it turns black. I don't want the deck to get too hot. I like the way Deks Olje #2 looks, but I feel like it's too slippery when wet. I want the deck to be bright, so paint is out. Does anyone have any suggestions?



    Last edited by Matt Billey; 06-03-2010 at 07:38 PM.

  49. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    6,176

    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    Pine tar, linseed oil and thinner might look good on this boat. It's easy to renew and doesn't get too slick.

    This is a great thread, and a remarkable boat. Thanks for posting.

  50. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Vancouver,BC
    Posts
    3,676

    Default Re: Danish double-ender project in Gloucester, MA

    This is one sexy thread!
    basil

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