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Thread: Greenhouse Update

  1. #491
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    Just did the math: of those who view this thread, fewer than one percent (0.62%) respond.

    That's not much encouragement, given the effort involved.

    If you enjoy it, say something.
    Very good thread and lots of very good and otherwise difficult to find information. If you ever tire of measuring rivers, this thread is the basis for a good book on personal greenhouse management. It is mostly written and well illustrated, but needs editing. I have recommended this thread to several non-boat gardeners.

    If I have nothing more useful than bad advice on aphids. I think it is best to leave the contributions to people who have more useful information to offer. Your standard is too high for my lame gardening anecdotes. Between the weeds and being overrun by rabbits and deer, what can I add? The bear didn't eat anything? So semi-useful contribution attempt #2: CGMMV info from Queensland, and Amseed.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  2. #492
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    Very good thread and lots of very good and otherwise difficult to find information. If you ever tire of measuring rivers, this thread is the basis for a good book on personal greenhouse management. It is mostly written and well illustrated, but needs editing. I have recommended this thread to several non-boat gardeners.

    If I have nothing more useful than bad advice on aphids. I think it is best to leave the contributions to people who have more useful information to offer. Your standard is too high for my lame gardening anecdotes. Between the weeds and being overrun by rabbits and deer, what can I add? The bear didn't eat anything? So semi-useful contribution attempt #2: CGMMV info from Queensland, and Amseed.
    +1 . An excellent idea Dave.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  3. #493
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Thanks for the comments. I've published how-to books on other subjects, mostly outdoor stuff. Lately I've been writing (and not publishing) fiction. My experience with the greenhouse is pretty narrow. A friend, Shane Smith, wrote a good book on the subject—



    He manages a large set of greenhouses, soon to be much larger, at the Cheyenne Botanical Gardens.

    The childrens' village—



    Spiffy landscaping.


  4. #494
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    I'm still reading! My greenhouse (made out of a trampoline frame) is doing fine at giving me tomatoes, peppers, and basil in what has otherwise been a cool, cloudy northwest early summer. I'm also growing saffron crocus in a half barrel in there, to save them from the squirrels, and from 25 bulbs they have multiplied in two years to fill all my saffron needs.

  5. #495
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Quote Originally Posted by katey View Post
    I'm still reading! My greenhouse (made out of a trampoline frame) is doing fine at giving me tomatoes, peppers, and basil in what has otherwise been a cool, cloudy northwest early summer. I'm also growing saffron crocus in a half barrel in there, to save them from the squirrels, and from 25 bulbs they have multiplied in two years to fill all my saffron needs.
    Saffron. That's something I never thought of growing.

    Could you make a bit of cash supplying local restaurants?

  6. #496
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Ginger is another , restaurants are always looking for that. I have a square metre of ginger in my garden , that patch is a lifetime producer.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Maybe, if someone is willing to pay for locally grown saffron! Harvest is with needle-nose pliers.

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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Quote Originally Posted by katey View Post
    Maybe, if someone is willing to pay for locally grown saffron! Harvest is with needle-nose pliers.
    I reckon you could find a market in the Seattle area. But it might take more ground than you've got, and more stoop labor.

    "Saffron, the most expensive spice, is usually sold by the gram - just a small cluster of slender red threads in a tiny glass bottle. At the Spice House in Chicago, owners Tom and Patty Erd sell a gram of superior grade saffron for $6.79, and an even finer version, known as coupé grade, for $8.29.

    The threads are the stigmas of tiny crocuses, grown primarily in Spain, Iran, Greece and India. Since each flower only has three stigmas, many blossoms are needed to produce even a small amount of spice. It takes an acre of land and hundreds of thousands of flowers to produce one pound of saffron threads.

    There are 200 to 300 threads per gram, and you only need a few threads at a time," Erd says. "You use it so sparingly that in the long run it's not much more expensive than any other spice."
    But be careful to invest in quality, advises Vanilla Saffron Imports president Juan San Mames. His San Francisco direct-import business currently offers saffron for $1,162.24 per pound, or $72.95 per ounce, and carefully vets its saffron for compliance with ISO standards. (Yes, the ISO has saffron specifications.) Cheap saffron producers often leave in the tasteless yellow stamens, adding weight and diluting the red stigmas that give the spice its famous taste."

    http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fsb/0807/gallery.most_expensive_foods.fsb/4.ht

  9. #499
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Time to thin the baby marjoram.



    I'm not fond of thinning plants that are too tiny to eat. Next time I'll be a more careful sowing the seed.


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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    I can scarcely prune fast enough to keep up with the tomatoes. Seems like they throw out a stem that grows a foot per day. But we're definitely in the high season for heat-loving plants.

    The basil is just about ready for a first cut to make a batch of pesto.



    I've been plucking sprouts and baby plants for salads.



    The Sun Gold tomatoes are delightfully sweet and rich tasting. The morning humidity fogs the lens.



    Both the black plum and black cherry tomatoes are at their peak right now.

    The San Marzano-type sauce tomatoes are coming on strong—



    New Zealand Spinach (tetragonia) is a creeper species of the shoreline dunes, that now volunteers in my greenhouse bed. If you let seeds get out in a temperate climate, you'd never be rid of it. It's a tasty cooked green, but requires a change of cooking water to shed the oxalic acid. (The potted plant left is a strawberry. The small-leaved plant is chickweed.)


  11. #501
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Do you eat the chickweed? If so, how?

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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Quote Originally Posted by katey View Post
    Do you eat the chickweed? If so, how?
    I've tried it, chopped and steamed. Definitely edible, but I wasn't keen on it.

    It's highly esteemed as a potherb in Japan, the subject of a festival.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanakusa-no-sekku

  13. #503
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    I posted this, of the New Zealand Spinach (Tetragonia) which is a creeper of the shorefront dunes. It spreads in all directions and grows fast: this plant is about three weeks along—



    It was taking over the walkways and I decided to harvest it before I buggered it up by walking on it.



    All that vegetation just to yield this much edible green stuff—



    Which will cook down to about three or four cups.

  14. #504
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    You'll be safe from scurvy.

    AKA "Cook's Cabbage," named for Captain Cook, who used it to ward off scurvy.

    It's almost a super-food, due to vitamin and mineral content.

    Nutritional value per 100 g (3.5 oz)
    Energy 51 kJ (12 kcal)
    Carbohydrates 2.13 g
    Sugars 0.25
    Dietary fiber 1.4 g
    Fat 0.17 g
    Protein 1.3 g
    Vitamins
    Vitamin A 3622 IU
    Thiamine (B1) (3%)
    0.03 mg
    Riboflavin (B2) (9%)
    0.107 mg
    Niacin (B3) (3%)
    0.39 mg
    Pantothenic acid (B5) (5%)
    0.256 mg
    Vitamin B6 (18%)
    0.237 mg
    Vitamin C (19%)
    16 mg
    Vitamin E (8%)
    1.23 mg
    Vitamin K (278%)
    292 μg
    Minerals
    Calcium (5%)
    48 mg
    Iron (5%)
    0.66 mg
    Magnesium (9%)
    32 mg
    Manganese (25%)
    0.526 mg
    Phosphorus (3%)
    22 mg
    Potassium (2%)
    102 mg
    Sodium (7%)
    107 mg
    Zinc (3%)
    0.31 mg


  15. #505
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    I planted some of that about eighteen years ago - and have had it emerge somewhere every year since. I normally encourage a bit and pull out the rest. Provides good greens and unlike real spinach it regrows all season until the frost gets it.
    I also had a good run of recurring pumpkins for a few years but the compost heap must have worked too well one year and the line died out.

  16. #506
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    18 pumpkins here this year, all Japs .
    Last edited by PeterSibley; 08-15-2016 at 01:58 AM.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  17. #507
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjim View Post
    I planted some of that about eighteen years ago - and have had it emerge somewhere every year since. I normally encourage a bit and pull out the rest. Provides good greens and unlike real spinach it regrows all season until the frost gets it.
    We used to live on the Harbour, on Governors Bay Road west of Rapaki. I asked one woodsy chap to show me an edible plant and he walked a few paces and pulled a handful of greens.

    "This is right good, I reckon."

    It was Italian Flat-leaf Parsley.

  18. #508
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    Thanks for the comments. I've published how-to books on other subjects, mostly outdoor stuff. Lately I've been writing (and not publishing) fiction. My experience with the greenhouse is pretty narrow. A friend, Shane Smith, wrote a good book on the subject—



    He manages a large set of greenhouses, soon to be much larger, at the Cheyenne Botanical Gardens.
    OK, I bought the book. Good advice, thanks. I would also recommend the book based on a preliminary look.

    I still think you could or should compile much of this thread into a book (or booklet) that would be of considerable general interest, if not quite so technically detailed as Smith's book. A good more anecdotal companion to the more text like GGC.

    Having established my expertise at aphid control, I looked to see what your friend Shane had to say. Among other controls mentioned, a promising spray, cinnamite, was recommended. I looked for it, but it seems to have been discontinued after the company making it merged with... oops, closed the tab. Anyway, Ceylon cinnamon oil may be of some help.
    Edit 2: Last post for now, so might as well edit as bump.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times...edible-flowers
    Tansy, also known as mugwort and golden buttons - You won't see ants anywhere near tansy so plant it around citrus trees to discourage them from farming their prized aphids and whitefly that they rely on for honeydew.
    https://whatyousow.wordpress.com/201...g-fruit-trees/
    Chives –Chives, like garlic, is one of the most popular repellents because of its powerful ability to repel beetles and aphids.
    Dill – is an effective natural repellent to aphids, Cabbage Loper, spider mites, and squash bugs.
    http://homeguides.sfgate.com/insectd...nts-36534.html
    Garlic chives mint coriander anise petunias repel aphids
    Last edited by MN Dave; 09-01-2016 at 11:25 AM. Reason: inserted (or booklet), an 11 page thread is short of a book
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  19. #509
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve McMahon View Post
    Thanks Chip and pipe.
    I want to gear up something small for growing greens in my office for now. In the near future when I move to Newfoundland we are looking to adding a year round 12 x 12' greenhouse / solarium with solar heat and integrated led lighting. I expect some infrared heaters might be part of that mix as well. I will re read this thread a few more times. Please don't ever delete it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    Container growing is not much work and quite productive. Before I built the greenhouse, I used fluorescent grow lights on a stand under an east window. Now there are red and/or blue LED lights that use less power and are said to promote faster growth (at a price.) Of course the aspect depends on where you are. In the northern US and Canada, a south window is best. In NZ and Oz, a north window.

    Successful small container crops I've grown include flatleaf parsley, herbs (oregano, thyme, rosemary, sage, savoury, marjoram, chervil, cilantro), basil, pac choi, spinach, mixed leaf lettuce, arugula/roquette, curly cress, mache/corn salad, claytonia, radishes, and others I can't recall. Some, such as flatleaf parsley, have vigorous regrowth, so you can clip stems for a steady supply and expect 4-6 months of production.

    Basil needs regular thinning (with the sprouts good on salad, omelettes, and as garnish) until it matures. Then I cut the largest plants and make pesto. There are smaller plants that take off after the competition is lessened, and that provides a second cutting which finishes the bed, usually about 2-3 months from seed. Mixed leaf lettuce follows a similar arc. If you are judicious in plucking leaves, it regrows nicely for about 2 months before starting to bolt. Some strawberries also do well in containers, giving you enough fruit for your morning cereal or evening ice cream.

    Spinach, pac choi, and roquette most often provide 2-4 harvests before bolting or getting buggy. If you have aphids (the horror!) you can control them by 1) taking the container outside and knocking them off with a fine spray; 2) spraying with insecticidal soap, pyrethrins, Neem oil, etc.; or 3) harvesting the whole batch, washing the aphids off in a spinner, and storing what you can't eat immediately. If you let aphids infest your containers they'll spread and be damned hard to get rid of.

    Success on a small scale might prompt you to expand. Just don't get more stuff going than you can keep track of.
    Aero Garden is a source for LED plant lights and hydroponic setups for very small scale hobby gardens. They have a number of dwarf cherry tomatoes and other plants that do well in confined spaces. This is not so much for a greenhouse as for gardening in a small apartment, but the dwarf pant varieties may be of some interest.

    They also supply fluorescent grow lights, but the LEDs al seem to be packaged in the container devices.



    LED lamps advertise various wavelengths. I don't know how these compare, but it is a starting point to look into LEDs. There is a lot of information on lights here. It sounds good, but it will take a while to decide how reliable this site is. More lights here.

    Examples:
    MEIZHI led grow lights with full spectrum 450~475nm, 620~630nm, 650~660nm, 730nm and 5500-6500K. Scientific ratio is better for plants photosynthesis and growth. The upgraded version add infrared rays, which can bring a better result for your plants.

    Galaxyhydro Wavelength (9 band): 430~440nm, 450~460nm, 610~615nm, 620~630nm, 650~660nm, white, IR, UV 380~400 nm,470nm. IR&UV included, great function on plants growing. (Suitable for every stages of plants)



    Unrelated, but I couldn't resist mentioning Aphids again You really have to hate aphids to use these in a small greenhouse. For $300 you can save $5 worth of basil. $94 for 1000 parasites (Aphipar)... can be stored for 2-3 days... repeat weekly for 2-3 weeks.) Each... will treat 3600 – 7200 square feet
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    i'm in the wrong business. . .

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    You really have to hate aphids to use these in a small greenhouse. For $300 you can save $5 worth of basil. $94 for 1000 parasites (Aphipar)... can be stored for 2-3 days... repeat weekly for 2-3 weeks.) Each... will treat 3600 – 7200 square feet
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Wonder if planting chives around the cukes in self-watering pots would keep the aphids off? Problem is that the cukes grow tall and aphids spread with egg-laying adults that fly, so it probably wouldn't do any good.

    I just came in from mixing a batch of soil for the tomato pots and herb planters, using some of the compost from the worm farm: way rich.

    Pruned several old but still vigorous tomato plants back to the stump. Some rebound with an even better second-growth crop and some just fade away from the shock. There are three young plants of the Peasant variety, a Russian heirloom similar to the famous San Marzano tomatoes— just starting to flower.

    Snapped some photos of the recent pick: Peasant, Black Cherry, Black Plum, Sun Gold, and some undersize Siberians. The green ones go in a paper bag to ripen.

    Last edited by Chip-skiff; 11-05-2016 at 01:16 PM.

  22. #512
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    Wonder if planting chives around the cukes in self-watering pots would keep the aphids off? Problem is that the cukes grow tall and aphids spread with egg-laying adults that fly, so it probably wouldn't do any good.

    I just came in from mixing a batch of soil for the tomato pots and herb planters, using some of the compost from the worm farm: way rich.

    Pruned several old but still vigorous tomato plants back to the stump. Some rebound with an even better second-growth crop and some just fade away from the shock. There are three young plants of the Peasant variety, a Russian heirloom similar to the famous San Marzano tomatoes— just starting to flower.

    Snapped some photos of the recent pick: Peasant, Black Cherry, Black Plum, Sun Gold, and some undersize Siberians. The green ones go in a paper bag to ripen.

    Your results in your climate are impressive. I'd be happy with that. The best thing I could have ever done with regard to aphids was neem and dormant or 'anytime' oil treatments for my grapes and berry bushes and have been hitting the tomatoes with it as well. Neem oil at a rate of 3 tbsp/gallon, and equal amount Bronner's Sal-suds soap for an emulsifier. I sprayed my plants every other 2-3 nights until I got a slight bit of buildup. The other mitigation program was ant lures and traps.

    Something planted it's young under the leaves of my most prized blueberry bush. I gave it a dose of neem/soap and it has not spread. Fortunately, the plant yet will go dormant and drop those leaves, and I will give them a couple applications of dormant oil to smother anything left behind.

    My single stem tomato trellis is working well. One plant has a ph issue and it's making tomatoes so I am not going to replace it at this point in the season. Is proving to be much easier to maintain and use a lot less water.



    Won't be long now.

  23. #513
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    One of my favorite threads deserves a bump...

    Jeff C

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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Quote Originally Posted by leikec View Post
    One of my favorite threads deserves a bump...
    Thanks for the nudge. I've not done much with this since last year, when there was this catastophe. Didn't even post a pic of our Christmas tomatoes, so here they are, Trust, a scarily perfect hybrid, one for each—



    I built the greenhouse based on our former weather pattern, in which there was a clear, cold interval between strong storm fronts, which allowed me to collect and store solar heat in the big water tank and transfer via a pumped loop, to the thermal mass of the floor, which is insulated from the surrounding earth. In previous years, the floor has stayed above 50°F/10°C even during the coldest part of the winter. This year, we had lots of slow storms with little snow accumulation, and cloudy or hazy periods of cold between. Thus, the collector didn't take in much solar heat and the floor temp went into the 40°F range. The tomatoes didn't grow or bear worth a damn.



    Note the yellow foliage, which is cold damage, I think. This variety, an heirloom called Peasant, usually holds way more fruit. The chives did fine and also the New Zealand spinach, which is established in the beds and spreads like the devil.

    I started a few tomato plants, but mostly just pruned back the indeterminate toms that were already bearing sparsely, like the black plum–



    The tomato basket was seldom more than half-full.



    More in a bit. . .
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  25. #515
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    All the pics look like this:



  26. #516
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Donn View Post
    All the pics look like this:


    Not sure what you're on about this time. Here's the same shot with flash.

    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! —Cole Porter

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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    I don't see any pics in #514 but see the tomato pic in #516. I often don't see your pics Chip.

  28. #518
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    I'm not "on" about anything. I'm simply letting you know the pics in #514 weren't rendering correctly. Here's a screenshot of the first pic in the post:


  29. #519
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    I cannot see anything. iPad will not view pictures from accounts.google.com
    Steve Martinsen

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SMARTINSEN View Post
    I cannot see anything. iPad will not view pictures from accounts.google.com


    Not seeing it either.

    Kevin


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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  31. #521
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Donn View Post
    I'm not "on" about anything. I'm simply letting you know the pics in #514 weren't rendering correctly.
    Sorry for the misunderstanding. Ever since the Google Monster shut down the Picasa hosting site and shifted my files to Google Photos, there have been problems. The present host generates long strings of address info, such as the following:

    lh3.googleusercontent.com/oBOZqGklFz5tvhb0kjrvTAHqclLKWXfrkhtzY811OcFqSW5eDx 9cr7FQ-0v6MbRxPR2UMnvltUfz5oLvxP5YuvJcGjLHMbUtj2z0nRoWc1D HI8pZNJGwGYSa1ClQMYuA6pBFS-wR_F_dG4Lwv2eIFy34GI8q_CyVvBqOlNtHM9q6U4qanTnDwRx_ xwxugBpdZ8_07umsFl1CGkyH1EQajr-zo0pWB2T0nPSkeLV3jj_D-DrdC_OUFSsQaOJi66aGavL6tsYOFlen_472v7apQLGbIM42zK8 fWxd7d2vBpxnFcXhk3uxBi9E_7iW7x5qHZbto0ED52GFccBNCh QCU8F2f13zFG7wXqd0lp3E3vPSuyo71aJBThDnZpvPNU3IgGrp JTsmfyKxSIkpfVbPsljPb5qC9_PZRCkp5w-6_3mb_YvcLsq0PzU6WvREUomNwCOlR-I3Hvu1TMoukqJ8huqbLzqkHXjfJDIJ8oWlrOaSd3zb4Wm-N_vVP3EMfZ0a0Wv41E7wcCEVb3yJAtkVGWMqLWc1bO4PuzavN_ OLnjS1IpqzTqsRbOrKV6UwT3z0Abh7sWiq7SqORuSIEsNx-Z6dep7QvusEKB5wCF0u1kwxBxVmgA9mm=w547-h850-noOn

    Others have mentioned not being able to view my pics, alas, but I have no way to correct the problem on my end.

    Sorry for the trouble.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! —Cole Porter

  32. #522
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    I can't see your pics on either Firefox or Chrome Chip. If it's your photo host Photobucket works well for me.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    I think that there is some way to do it, woxbox figured it out upstairs.
    Steve Martinsen

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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Now I don't see Chip's tomato pic in #516 that I could see earlier, and still don't see any pics in #514. Only change on my end is a different ISP.

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    Default Re: Greenhouse Update

    Just spent a half-hour posting more stuff and it poofed. Gone. Nothing.

    It's getting harder to justify wasting time on this rubbish.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! —Cole Porter

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