1950 CC Cruiser Restoration

[chuckt]

Here's what the bilge looks like now--a big change!. I guess painting might be unnecessary but I think I will paint it with grey bilge paint anyway. Your looking down through a big hatch in the aft deck. The rot in the yellow cedar planking is the deck. Dealing with that is down the list.

[chuckt]

Now I am wondering if I am sensitized to epoxy after all. As the above indicates, I had one reaction and got small welts all on my forearms but have had epoxy on me since then with no skin reaction. Of course, I am more diligent about getting it off me.

Pulled my instruments and sent them off to Clawsons Instruments. He ain't cheap but they need significant work and he has very good references.

[chuckt]

Second plywood layer complete! Third and final started (barely). This was interesting for a while but I am now kinda tired of epoxying plywood layers to the bottom. After the third plywood layer, I need to finish laminating the stem in place and then I am ready to put a layer of xynole on. That should be interesting working upside down. My plan is to roll a thick layer of slightly thickened epoxy on and give it some time to get gooey. Wet out my fiberglass and roll up on one of those swimming noodles. Unroll onto the bottom and hope it doesnt sag. Hope hard it doesn't sag. I think the trick will be to wait until the epoxy is just gooey enough to hold the fiberglass in place. Any voices of experience out there care to comment?

[Soundman67]

Looking great. Keep slugging away at it. Cant wait to see how it goes.

[chuckt]

Found this advice on boatbuilding.net:

"Glassing large overhead areas calls for a different technique and a helper or two. Most successful jobs are done by rolling on a coating, then allowing it to cure to a tacky state. The cloth is then rolled out as smoothly as possible into the tacky coating. This is where youÂ’ll probably need more than one person. Get the wrinkles out as you go along, you wonÂ’t be able to slide them out because the tackiness of the coating will hold the cloth in place. Once youÂ’ve got the cloth where you want it press it into the tacky undercoat with a dry foam roller. Then wet it out using the roller cover and a roller pan. Use just enough epoxy to wet out the cloth. When cured finish in the usual way."

http://www.boatbuilding.net/article..../02/06/1350218


So apply the cloth dry, then wet it out. I guess you have to apply several coats unless you dont care if it is smooth or not. The roller cover sounds like an excellent idea--I pictured an epoxy rainforest with all the dripping that would be going on.

[Tom Freeman]

I'll say a little prayer for you at the start of this process. Get yourself a pair of throwaway coveralls.

[sdowney717]

I have seen a metal roller of many circular stacked plates with knobbies on it.
You could use this to press the fabric into the googe.
something like this

[chuckt]

Got the third layer on the starbaord bow. I tried to heat the plywood with a heat gun to get some pre-bedn. It didn't seem to work very well but I probably didn't heat it long enough. In a seperate thread, I think it was concluded it would work. Anyway, it was possible to force the plywood into shape by the use of many blocks. I think this third layer was harder than the second diagonal layer beneath it because of the angle--too much compund curve. For my last diagonals on the port bow, I am increasing the angle and they seem to be going on much easier.



after

[Champagne]

Nice progress Chuckt!

Brgds
Kim

[mucrewbtp]

Chuck,

Have you considered not fiber-glassing the bottom? If it were my project I would CPES the bottom below the waterline and fair it with west system and microfibers or possibly G-Flex with microfibers. I would then just red lead it and paint the bottom. Fiberglass over wood makes me nervous. Just my two cents.

Regards,
Mike

[chuckt]

Mike I have. It certainly would be easier to do it that way. In his book on cold molding, Reuel Parker really recommends it for this method of building as do the Gougeon tech guys. I would never in a million years put glass on a planked vessel but it seems to be the accepted method for this way of doing it. But my knee jerk reaction was like yours--it made me nervous. I worry about moisture getting above it and dealing with future delamination and I just dont like the idea of glass. But my understanding is its real important to seal up and protect a ply bottom. I'd be interested in hearing from more folks on this.

[chuckt]

Most recent progress. Just more plywood so I know this doesn't look like much is different. I am about two evenings work away from finishing the bottom (well, the very bottom). Still need to replace the first two topsides planks, finish laminating the stem, and then do fiberglass and paint before I am done with the bottom work and can move to the cabin and deck projects.

[sdowney717]

But my understanding is its real important to seal up and protect a ply bottom. I'd be interested in hearing from more folks on this.

continually water saturated plywood could simply fall apart, delaminate on the bottom, so why take that risk.
I once replaced a floor on a fiberglass runabout with exterior PT plywood and it soaked up water and completely fell apart after 5 years.

so just do it, it will be fine.
You could put salt , green antifreeze, timbor, borates in the bilges or run some seawater into them to try and kill fungus.

[mucrewbtp]

My Lyman is all marine ply lapstrake. The bottom and the whole hull is only finished with bottom paint below the waterline and brightsides polyurethane above. It is going on 50 years on the original bottom with no delamination or rot in the plywood. in fact I recently replaced about 1/3rd of the white oak ribs but the ply is still sound. Based on my experience with marine ply boats is that marine ply does very well on its own and does not require fiberglass to be protected.

Regards,
Mike

[chuckt]

Got all three layers on the bottom now. Over the weekend I removed all the old topside planks that went below the waterline and will replace those next. Then a handfull of little jobs to prepare for the xynole covering. I was just a little fearful of finding some new rot when I removed these planks but found only one small spot that I can dig out and epoxy easily. Cool! I now know for sure that the boat is 100% free of any rot or soft wood. I am pleased with the three layers of Meranti on the bottom--it is impressively solid.

[chuckt]

I decided to coldmold the sides below the water line. Hopefully, if I do a nice enough job with the planking above what I replaced, you will not be able to tell where the plywood ends and the planking begins.

Somewhere up earlier in this thread did I say Labor Day for relaunch? HA Ha Ha! (that's nervous/maniacal laughter BTW). Not even close. As I approach each new phase of the renovation, I think of ten new tasks for each one task I actually anticipated. And the ones I anticipated take longer than I planned.

[wizbang 13]

Chuck, you have Brass ones to do that.I'm sure it will work and be better than new.

[sdowney717]

mostly you have a like new boat.
Biggest thing I worry about with power boating is fuel price issues

Can you add a mast and sail to an egg harbor 37?
If fuel goes to $10 per gallon, who will still be power boating?
Europe has very expensive fuel and do they get to subtract out certain taxes (which doubles fuel costs) on their fuel?

[chuckt]

Yes--fuel costs stink. And cost of conversion to diesel stinks. If it gets bad enough, I may have to find some big Sparkman & Stephens sloop to restore (which I would do in a traditional manner).

Thanks Wiz. I assume its a compliment.

[Eric D]

One other trick to overhead glass work that I have done is use the Raptor plastic staples and staple the glass on dry along with blue tape on the edges. They you just wet out the glass as is in place, leaving the staples in. Trying to unroll or straighten glass on tacky or partially tacky epoxy is just a PITA BIG TIME. I would use harsher words to truly discribe my personal feelings about it, but it is a family site and you get my drift. Not an easy task, but for me, the staple job with tape worked way better with less wrinkles. Oh, and another vote for the steel rollers. Keep in a bucket of (ice cream size) of plain white vinegar keeps them fresh and rolling through SEVERAL glass jobs (although I am sure you will properly clean them perfectly, it will just be the helper that forgot and that is the reason they now don't roll!!!) Love those things to get bubbles and squeeze out the excess epoxy so the glass does not float.

Good Luck.

[chuckt]

although I am sure you will properly clean them perfectly.

That's a funny one Eric. I would be ashamed to show you what my drills look like right now. I try to clean them each day but I don't do a good enough job to keep them spot free. Same with my clamps. And bit by bit they come to look like an old piling at the beach.

What you say makes sense. I've got monel staples so will use those. My biggest concern is I will staple it on and then after I goop it, I then I discover it doesn't fit in some nook or cranny or there is a wrinlkle and I can't fix it because the cloth is stapled. Actually I think wrinks would be easy--just cut them and pat it down but if I dont have enough fabric, for example, where the cloth bends from keel to bottom, I think it will be dificult to deal with. But I guess I only need to staple the overhead portions so can leave the part on the keel loose. I am sure what I just typed makes no sense to anyone reading it. THe picture in my mind is clear--I think I lack the proper descriptive powers to convey what I am thinking will be a problem.

Already got a bubble roller--your "cleaning" comment reminds me I should have have a couple more as backups

[chuckt]

I was crawling around underneath and saw this for the first time. I guess I know what my fuel tanks are made of now.



I don't know Chris Craft production history but I doubt these were original. Monel must be expensive and I think Chris craft was keen on being efficient and keeping cost low and they didn't overbuild their boats to have really long lives. My own boat gives me the impression that it was not really intended to last 60 years. She seemed to me to be very lightly built. I think the bottom I have put on her is far stronger than the orginal.

[chuckt]

This boat is taking forever! I suffered from a touch of burnout so I took some time off. Most recently have finished laminating the stem and gripe in place. I had to fair it a good bit to get it symmetrical. I don't understand why one side of where the plywood meets the stem differed from the other so much. Anyway, the epoxy mixed with microballons was very droopy. I was getting very frustrated pushing it back in place just to watch it sag again. After 20 mintues the idea occured to me to lay wax paper over it to hold it in place. Worked like a charm! Maybe this is a known trick but wasn't known to me. The wax paper just happened to be right at my feet because I use it under the wood blocks I use to tighten the laminations down. Used over the fairing epoxy, wax paper has the added benefit of really smoothing things out.

I wonder how fair the bottom needs to be? Thats my next step. This boat will have anti-fouling paint on the bottom so I figure it doesn't need to be super-fair like I hope to do the topsides.

FYI--You can see I already started fairing. And the pictures makes it look like there are open seams between my planks. There aren't. Its the epoxy in the seams that makes it look that way.

[nedL]

Nice find those monel tanks! I agree with you & would be a bit surprised if they were original.
As for the amount of fairing needed, I'd say you need only do what you are happy with for cosmetics. I think at that point you will be beyond anything that will 'improve' performance or fuel efficiency on a hull of that design & intended speed.
Looking great. I agree that you are ending up with a much stronger bottom.

[Tom Freeman]

I wonder how fair the bottom needs to be? Thats my next step. This boat will have anti-fouling paint on the bottom so I figure it doesn't need to be super-fair like I hope to do the topsides.

Our shipwright is fond of saying "the fish don't care, and the ducks only care a little."

[donald branscom]

A great job. Looks like it will last many more years now.
I think you made the best decision to put fiberglass cloth on the outside of the ply.

[chuckt]

Got the stem and gripe laminations done and faired. Also, there is a "wave deflector" between the chine log and the planking. I did the best I could to make one out of wood. My best was pretty pitiful. In my defense, it is a very complicated piece of wood. Each of its three faces was a compound curve. Fortunately, the epoxy hides my sins. I still need to fair the deflectors more. Then it is time to sand, fairing epoxy, sand, fairing epoxy, etc. and then glass and paint the bottom.

[chuckt]

Progress has really slowed since mid-August. I have been spending time with my youngest daughter who will be off to college next year. I figure the boat will be here for quite some time but my sweet little girl will be soon only be home for short visits--I better enjoy her company while I can. Sniff.

[simonmags]

Hi Chuck, great project. Always good to spend time with Family, but are you sure progress hasn't stalled because of all the sanding and fairing

[chuckt]

Could be that as well. I think the xynole cloth application is intimidating me as well.

[mucrewbtp]

I still say you should just do some mild faring, give it some CPES, paint the bottom and enjoy it. The bottom job you have done is already stronger than the original. There are many boats out there with painted wood bottoms doing just fine. That is just my opinion however.

Regards,
Mike

[chuckt]

Finally got back to the boat after a hiatus of several weeks. Not total hiatus. I have been fairing, sanding, and fairing etc a bit at a time. Today was the first full day in a while. This xynole is stapling on much better than I expected. It's fairly stretchy and conforms to the hull really nicely.

Had to brace the sides and remove the stands. I was a bit worried its not supported enough but I didn't perceive any movement as the stands were removed.

Anyone know if I can overlap the cloth at the edges or just I try to do my best to butt the edges together? And what's this stuff like when you sand it? If I sand into the xynole, will it be dificult to get it smooth again?

[wizbang 13]

Geeze Chuck. I think you should try resinating one piece before you stapel them all up.

[chuckt]

Laugh--well too late now. Actually, I did do an experiment to make sure it would work. I made a mock bottom and side about 4x4 and put cloth on it and epoxied it--worked great but sure takes a lot of epoxy. I also tried putting a layer of epoxy down and rolling out the cloth dry. It was dificult--as Eric stated above. So I am following Eric's suggestion and stapling the cloth down and then I will roll epoxy onto it. 4-5 layers I think. I will try to do this all in a 2-3 day period so I get chemcal bonds between layers.

I will definitiely need some extra hands for the epoxy job. I have volunteered my wife and youngest child for the work crew.

.

[chuckt]

Excited about today's work. Installed a gas heater for the garage workshop. I also added some more insulation using this bubble wrap stuff from Lowes and a celing fan up top to circulate the heat. The shop is actually quite toasty now. A huge change from last winter. I think it would have been dificult if not impossible to do the remaining epoxy work without some better temperature control in the shop. I need to do some research on whether I actually need to re-introduce some ventilation to make the 30,000 btu heater safe. Anyone know how to evaluate this?

[ben2go]

I don't think you will have ventilation issues with that heater in that large of a shop.If you feel like you need a little air,just open a bay door a couple inches.That's what we do when we run a kerosene heater in a friends 30x30 garage.

[wizbang 13]

will a gas heater induce moisture into the air? I do not know, but moisture in the air increases that dang blush!!

[Soundman67]

propane heater will give off alot of moisture. one of the products of combustion of propane is water

[chuckt]

I am diggin this heater!! Nice and cozy in my shop. I think since my shop is not very airtight, I am fine. I did know about the moisture but am monitoring things with a humidity guage. Doesn't seem to make much difference so far.

Started applying epoxy to the bottom. Had a moment of panic when I couldn't get the Xynole to make good contact everywhere. Wizbang was helpful--mostly a matter of applying just the right amount of epoxy, rolling a lot, and spreading the excess. Wizbang was right--no way to do it in one go. This will take several full days. I'm not sure I will even try to start it in the evenings because there isn't enough time. I almost got 1/3 of the first coat done in about 5 hours. The picture doesn't show much but here it is.

Oh--Kudos to Paul Oman and his epoxy. Paul is a member of this forum. I'm very happy with it and I really appreciate the cost savings over the other stuff.

[ben2go]

Our kerosene heater seems to cause the moister in the air to drop out or condense.I've never noticed it with propane heater or our wood stove.

[chuckt]

I hate to keep posting pics that don't show dramatic progress but I spent the week (in bits) applying epoxy to the xynole cloth, finishing filling my seams and rebuilding my supports so I can once again remove the keel blocking so I can apply cloth & epoxy to the keel. Doesn't look like it, but this was a good bit of work but mostly done in 8 hours on Saturday. Glad I decided to put the xynole on. This is some impressively thick and strong stuff and is going to seal everything up great. I can see why folks like it for abrasion resistance. I am sure it will give me some great protection. After application, as Wiz suggested, I gave everything a light sanding and will apply a layer of epoxy+fairing filler. Probably several on the sides to make sure it looks good. Ran into a bit of a problem with some epoxy in the routed seams not curing. Probably will have to dig it out and reapply.

[chuckt]

Kinda slow going applying epoxy/fairing-filler to the bottom, sides, and seams. Hopefully my next pictures in one to two weeks will show a painted bottom. I have started to work on deck issues in between waiting on the epoxy to dry. Almost done applying xynole. Was working on putting extra layers on the bottom of the keel. Ready to shift the keel blocking to get to the spots I could not reach before and finish that in the next couple of days. Then more fairing and sanding, repeat, repeat. Hopefully will begin painting the bottom next week. Oh shoot--I forgot I have to fabricate and relace a rub rail on the starboard side and a piece of trim on the port side. So I dont know when I will get to paint. Sigh.

[simonmags]

Hey at least there are no holes in the hull anymore, the cloth is looking good Chuck. Verty Impressive job, doubly so from my point of view never having done anything similar. It's admirable the amount of work you have done and I can well imagine spending so many hours just to get the boat to look similar to when you started. But at least now you know it's so much tougher and will last for a few more years :P

[chuckt]

Thanks--yes, from about 25 feet away it won't look much different from when I got it--laugh. And the insde looks like a huge mess but will be a lot less work than the bottom was (at least I hope so)

[chuckt]

Getting there with the fairing

[chuckt]

Not sure why I'm awake at 3 in the morning but maybe updating my thread will make me sleepy. The past two weeks has seen more fairing. I'm on my third pass now and it looks like one more ought to make things pretty dang nice. The whiteish appearance to some of the epoxy is some white coloring you can add to your mix. Really helps see flaws better.

The third shot shows what I did with my port window openings. I wish I had taken a before picture. They were "lined" with a strip of copper sheet just nailed in there. That seemed like asking for trouble to me so I put two layers of xynole to line the opening. Curiously, there were no signs of rot there. I used West G-Flex as my epoxy. I figured with all that endgrain, I would need flexibility for it to last.

Made and installed some new rubrails of white oak. Also laminated with G-Flex for some flexibility. I figure even though its white oak, the G-Flex will do the trick and, if it becomes a failed experiment, its no big deal to replace the rub rail.

Other than that, I have done a whole lot of sanding. And I'm sitting now with the heating pad on my back--I'm a bit sore from hours at a time working scrunched up under this boat. I've also started on the rot around my aft hatch in between waiting for epoxy to cure. It takes several days to cure to the point it can be sanded due to the low temperatures. I'm keeping the workshop 55-60ish. We are setting some record lows here in the sunny South. 20 degrees right now which is frickin cold for us. That aint helping.












Yes--I am feeling sleepy. That did the trick. Back to bed and some sleep I hope.

[chuckt]

I foolishly thought I might be painting this weekend until I found this while sanding.



The culprit appears to be this window drain. And there is rot on the cabin side below the drain. Not sure how I will piece somethign in and get it to match well.



And the rot is all in there.



Sigh.

[P.L.Lenihan]

Wow! That is a surprise and certainly not something anyone needs to discover! However,if it can be any consolation, keep discovering and repairing stuff like this and you'll end up with a darned near trouble free boat for years to come! Don't give up!!

Long live epoxy!



Cheers!


Peter

[chuckt]

Thanks for the encouragement. It hit me last night that this is what probably caused the chine rot in this area that I repaired many months ago. Unless you looked really close, you can't really see that water had a way of getting through the deck. Hopefully, I'll have it all dealt with today

[knottyBuoyz]

Just lookin' in to see how you're doin' Chuck. Sorry 'bout the latest little surprise. Good thing you found it now though! I do say you're going to have one gorgeous boat when you're finished!