1950 CC Cruiser Restoration

[Tom Freeman]

Nope. Your college kid is slow. Tell him my wife can scrape 3 times that much in a day and see if it gets him moving. You did give him a heat gun?

[chuckt]

He He--a litlle insult to his masculinity might help. Heat gun?! What's that? I gave him a dental pick and a toothbrush. J.K. He's got a decent heatgun. I might have to give it a try for an hour or two and see what he should be doing. Or maybe some more supervision but he's worked for me before and seems to be a hard worker--must be technique

[chuckt]

Got the last frame done!!! I am so excited to move on to something else. There was only 1 frame out of 21 that wasn't at least 80% replaced. I'm not really done with the frames. I need to bolt many of them to stringers and then make sure they are fair.



Next job is straightening out the transom. Need to remove the bottom planks in the stern and remove this menagerie of blocks and rebuild things properly. The corners have some rot in them and will have to replace sections of the chine log and the timber in the stern.

[ben2go]

You got a real job ahead of you.Good luck.

[Champagne]

Nice progress on the frames Chuckt! the inner transom pict...yikes.. well, you will sort it out I am sure!

Is the college kid getting better at scraping yet?

Brgds

Kim

[chuckt]

lol-no he isn't getting any faster. I need to figure out what he isn't doing. Transom work starts tomorrow.

Another "before" shot of the transom. I'm actually hoping to save this wood. Plane it down after I get the lower plank off and then maybe epoxy on some filler wood--depending on what this wood is--haven't figured it out yet. I cant imagine why the person that did this repair didn't plane or sand it smooth. All these gaps seem ready made to capture water and generate rot

[chuckt]

The more I uncover, the more bad places I find! However, I think I have finally at least exposed all the rot. The only place I haven't uncovered is the starboard chine log. Oh--I eventually need to un-fiberglass the deck--I hope I find nothing there.

Spent all weekend removing that lower transom plank. Then I could see the rot in the corners and pulled the planks off that you see below. Need to rebuild about two feet of chine log on each side and replace the gussets(knees ?) that are in the corners. Then I need to re-sister some previous repairs in the corners and to the engine stringers. They seem solid but some extra support cant hurt and the prior repairs were haphazard and someone used unsealed plywood blocks. Then make and install new sister keels and new wood to support the rudders and prop struts. Then I think it will be time to start making the new keelson and keel. Then I can reblock the keel, remove the temporary bracing under the boat, fair my frames, and start installing the plywood bottom!!

Time for my first prediction on launching. (Dare I provoke the gods?!) Would like to get enjoy it some before it gets too cold. Hmmmm--How about Labor Day (that's early September for those not familiar with our Holidays)

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Steady Chuck steady... deep breaths buddy. Ain't wooden boats fun!!!

[Champagne]

Chuckt,

Looking at at the transom pictures, and seeing that so many strange repairs have been done to your boats stern, do you think the work load, cost and time used with building up partially like you are discussing above versus tearing the whole tail off and rebuilding it from scratch is going to differ much?

You can probably reuse the outer transom boards if you find that their now hidden sides are rot-free but replacing everything else including laminating new rear frames to make sure you have a 100% sound transom.

If I was restoring from a position where the plan was to sell the boat in the forseeable future I wouldn't spend a minute consider doing the full restoration of the transom but if I wanted to keep the boat for the next 20-30 yrs I would take the extra time to uncover everything in the transom and rebuilding it from more or less scratch so that I had that area checked off as sound. Then again you are planning for a Sep launch so I guess you got to draw the line somewhere.

Did I mention I AM VERY JEALOUS of your boathouse

Brgds

Kim

(T-minus 5 days, 13 hours and counting)

[chuckt]

Kim--I certainly gave it a lot of thought and may still completely rip it out. However, despite appearances, the apron and bottom plate (the wood along the bottom of the transom) is in good shape except the knees and the chine log which appear original and are dry rotted. Someone must have done this relatively recently. I think I can just replace the knees and chine log sections and improve on the repairs and be fine. When I get this cleaned up better I will know for sure.



I do really enjoy my workspace--thanks. I just put in a big window air conditioner so the space will be bearable in our brutal humid heat. Unfortunately, many of these projects require generous ventilation so I may not get to enjoy the AC comfort much.

Good luck with your launch--I'm jealous of you!

[Champagne]

Good to hear the transom condition is better than it seemed on the pictures, they really scared me!

In regards to the planned ripping off the fiberglass decks;
Fyi, when I started ripping off my vinyl decks (vinyl cockpit sides in perticular) I got a bit surprised, it was about a year after I had taken the boat out of the water. She was stored in a big watertight but ventilated tent outside during winter and the following summer indoors, and even after all this time, when I started pulling away on the vinyl, the wood underneath was still moist and it dripped when i applied pressure to the rotten bits.

I am not saying that this is what I expect you to find, but the risk is there and you might want at an early stage start to rip some areas free of the fiberglass to find out if it's moist underneath.

Because, as you know, wet wood needs quite some time to naturally perspirate excess moisture till it reaches a level where it is 'gluable' for repairs.

I lost about 4 months cabinside\deck progress because I didn't take the vinyl off at once I was indoors, and had to wait till the wood I wanted to save without removing it first was at a moisture content level where I could safely work (glue) it.


Brgds

Kim

[chuckt]

Pretty much finished the transom work. In hindsight, should have ripped all the old repairs out (did rip a good bit of it out). Nothing they did fit correctly so I had to use wood and epoxy to rebuild parts (that were worth saving) and fill things the last guy left. I think I'm too embarrased to post pics of my repairs--at least till they are painted--lol. They look like heck but everything is now solid as a rock back there now. Next comes fabricating new sister keels, keelson, and keel. Okay--I'll post a pic. I know it looks a bit rough but I think that was inevitable without ripping everything out and starting from scratch which I see no reason to do--I'll be the only sticking my head down there and looking around.



Kim--Good word to the wise on the deck coverings. I think I will take a close look soon--maybe do some test bores with a forstner bit--just enough to get through the fiberglass to see what I have underneath. I would like to save this job for last because I can patch it up and save this project for next winter thus maybe getting the boat in the water this Fall for at least a little enjoyment this year.

College kid much faster with stripper. I had to buy him a respirator but it should be worth the investment--he's getting a lot more done now.

[chuckt]

Making slow progress. I got my transom work done. When whoever repaired it last did the transom, they made it 1/2 inch too high so I added some filler so the bottom will come out fair. I guess they figured out they messed up because they added wedges to fix the boat's trim. Made the sister keels and installed them and have started on the keelson which I will be laminating in place. Somehow it seems more exciting to be working on the keel--makes me feel like I have made some progress. I'll be buying plywood soon. I think I am going with Meranti. Its a bit less expensive than Okoume and, as near as I have been able to find out, just as good albeit a bit heavier and stiffer. Hot as heck down here! Another 100 degree day today. I have a big window air conditioner and it keeps things bearable until about 3:00pm. The workspace is unisnulated so it just cant keep the heat out all day.

[knottyBuoyz]

Very nice work Chuck. I admire your tenacity. It takes a special guy to tackle a project like that. I watched my buddy do pretty much the same thing to this ole' boat.



Two winters ago they pulled an engine (Detroit Diesel) for repair. The yard didn't block the boat properly taking into account the loss of the weight of the engine. Over the winter it hogged and broke the keel and twisted half the frames etc. Insurance paid the owner off and he repaired it himself. He fabricated the keel from two 36' beams (white oak I think) and got the thing back together. It's unsettling for us plastic boat owners to see a nice wooden boat splayed open without planking! Ohhhhh the horrors!

Carry on Chuck. Thnx for the thread.

[chuckt]

Thanks Rick. Scary story--that's a really good looking boat in the pic you posted. Do you know what she is?

[58Connie]

This heat has to go! I went to the boat yard to check on mine and about passed out after 20 minutes! I need your setup for these NC summers!

[chuckt]

I think I need to at least insulate the roof. Came home tonight and turned on the AC in the garage. 2 hours later its still 110 in the garage. I wont get any work done at night if I cant get the heat under control.

[Dan McCosh]

Just saw this thread. My father owned that model CC, one of four CC boats he owned at one time or another--a twin-cockpit utility; a 26-ft. express; a 30-foot express, and a 40-foot express. The 30-footer was in many ways his favorite--fast, a good ride even in heavy seas. As I recall it had two 140 hp. flat-six engines. Nice boat.

[Tom Freeman]

I think I need to at least insulate the roof. Came home tonight and turned on the AC in the garage. 2 hours later its still 110 in the garage. I wont get any work done at night if I cant get the heat under control.

So there is some good news about our short summers. It was pretty warm here today. I think it hit 72.

[knottyBuoyz]

Thanks Rick. Scary story--that's a really good looking boat in the pic you posted. Do you know what she is?

If I remember correctly she's a converted downeast lobster boat. Bob said the shed was up in his backyard for 7 yrs during the conversion. She's really one of a kind as far as I know.

[chuckt]

Nice boat Knotty. I would not have guessed she was a converted commercial boat. Thanks a lot Tom. You Pacific coast people shouldn't complain about anything else in life because your weather should make up for everything. Stopping by Lowes on the way home to check out insulation options for my workspace. I'm anxious to proceed with my keel lamination. For some reason, I am enjoying this particular task on the list.

[chuckt]

Well, I've been hard at work but dont have much to show for it. Rebuilt the wood above the prop struts. It took a fair bit of time to insure the frames were all in alignment so the keel is correct. So, I have the keelson in place and am about halfway done laminating the keel in place.



Just got my Meranti plywood today. Exciting!

[chuckt]

Another pic. Found out you don't want to do too many lams in this situation at the same time. They are kinda like a greased pig--slippin and squirmin all over the place. I think I read somewhere that someone predrills holes and uses icepicks to keep lams aligned. It wouldn't work if your bending but would probably work well here. I might try it.

Sold my 18' Continental. Now I have some money to finish this project., Just in time too--my 30 sheets of Meranti just arrived. Now if I can just sell this horse that I got on the market I'll have money for tuition in the Fall for my oldest daughter.

[chuckt]

I am pretty excited today. The new keel is on and faired and I my boat is once against resting on her blocked keel and off her "stilts." I had a moment of worry when I realized the shape of the keel did not match the plans at all. I dug the pieces of the old keel out of my scrap pile and pieced it back together and found out that it didn't match the plans either. So, they must have just done what they wanted out on the production floor. I am pretty sure the keel was orginal. Im sure I will be fine.


My wife finished painting the garage/shop. I think it looks pretty sharp.



Next step is to make sure that all my frames are fair so that when I start putting on the plywood, I minimize any filling. Well, first, I have a bit more degreasing to do. I guess Dawn works for oily birds--let's hope it works for oily stringers and frames.

[Soundman67]

I have found a product called biosolve. It breaks down the long hydrocarbon chains into smaller ones. then the bacteria can eat the rest of it. using it to get rid of 60 years of bilge oil in my old fishing boat. could work really well to get rid of oil remnants on your frames. you can thin it right down with water and then spray it on the oily parts. Soap will clean it off the surface but this product is supposed to get right into the pores of the wood and get rid of all of the oil.

I am not done cleaning mine yet so I cant say how well it really works but seems good so far.

www.spilldepot.com is the website of the place I got mine. they are right beside where I work.

[chuckt]

That stuff sounds pretty cool! I just spent most of the day scrubbing scraping and power washing. I finally got it all off--at least off anyplace I can see. I am sure there is some lurking in nooks and crannies but I dont think that will hurt anything. I pretty much replaced all my frames so did not have too much oily stuff to clean up. THis sounds like an ideal product for your situation.

[Soundman67]

when I started cleaning I was using soap in the bilge and leaving her with about a foot of water in the bilge. ended up with almost a half inch of oil scum floating on top. what a mess. had this biosolve in there now for about a week and most of that layer of oil on top is gone now. So it is working. according to the people that sold it to me there is no problem with just pumping out the bilge once the oil film is gone.
too many years of the used engine oil going into the bilge I think.

Doug

[chuckt]

I had the same problem. Is that your trawler in your avatar pic? Got pics somewhere? I like the idea of a safe efficient crusier. Every once ina while Iwindow shop trawlers and motorsailers.

[Soundman67]

https://cid-45a0357881e556fe.photos....x/blue%20eagle

I hope that works. I have a few more but that gives you an idea of what I have here. Thanks for asking. Shes built like a tank. So yes pretty good and safe for coastal cruising I hope.

[chuckt]

Nice boat soundman. My wife would love a big stable trawler for cruising. I am lobbying for a motorcruiser as a possible next boat in a couple of years for some more long distance cruising but maybe this boat will be enough for us.

Okay--plywood installation has started. I was expecting to just be able to staple (Monel staples) the 6mm Meranti to my frames but the staples could not handle even the pretty mild curve in my frames. So I had to quickly scramble and cut some small battens that I put screws in to force the Meranti to conform to all the frames reasonably tightly.

This is taking more epoxy and filler than I expected. Really having to glop it on where the plywood meets the frames and the keel. Oh well. I don't want ever have to say "I guess I needed more epoxy there."

I am not worrying about the plywood edges on the first layer not meeting at a frame. I figure I will staple the edges hanging free to the next layer of plywood. Three layers to go on total. I am worried a bit about the curves in the bow which will require a compound curve in the plywood. I figure a lot of dry fitting experiments will tell me how to do it. The first try will just be to cut the plywood into 10 inch strips and see if it can take the compound curve. Anyone have any tips?

[chuckt]

So any suggestions on how to form the plywood to these curves at the bow?

I will get a better pic up in about an hour so you can see the curve all the way to the stem

[mucrewbtp]

How about steam?

[chuckt]

I worry if I steam it will have an advers effect on the epoxy. Can you steam plywood?

[chuckt]

No work on the boat this week!

[Candyfloss]

Chuck, if you want to do a double-skin ply hull, normal practice here in NZ would be to plank the forward, flared section on the diagonal. Stop the first skin fore-&-aft planks on a convenient frame, diagonal plank the forward section, then stop the second skin one frame back & plank the forward section on the other diagonal from there. Or diagonal plank the whole thing. I wouldn't do planks any wider than six inches.

You can make a jig for your router that will shape planks for you on the boat. I know this is a very different style of boat, but here is how I did it on my 25ft cruising yacht: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...he-way-we-were....

[chuckt]

Yes, I see what you are saying--it takes the curve nicely at a diaganol. I'll study on that. Do I need the 80s big hair doo and mustache to make it work?

[mucrewbtp]

Chuck, I have seen someone steaming plank stock before, but it may have been solid stock come to think of it. It would probably be best to run some tests first. And yes, I think the hair and moustache are an integral part of the double diagonal process.

-Mike

[chuckt]

An update. All this was covered in a seperate thread but I will summarize here to keep this build thread complete. Basically, I am now adding on the layers of 6mm Meranti plywood to the bottom. Three layers with West epoxy on each layer. I first cut a piece of plywood to install. The stern sections are widest beginning at 18 inches and smaller toward the bow due to the curves that become more significant as you move forward. I dry fit the pieces and mark where they meet the framing. The first layer goes on after first coating the framing and the inside of the plywood with epoxy. Then I gloop on a generous amount of epoxy where the plywood meets the frames. Then, using small wood blocks with decking screws in them, I screw the plywood onto the frames. Like this:



Toward the bow, a lot of blocks are required because of the compund curves and I am using about 5 inch wide "planks" applied horizontally. I will go with diagonal planks at the bow after the first layer. Not planning on doing diagonal except for the forward 1/4th of the hull. The blocks are generally about 6 inches long. For the second and final layers, I will use the blocks but use screws and block widths such that the screws do not penetrate all the way through the innermost layer. The screws get removed after about 8 hours and I will fill the holes with epoxy delivered via a syringe. The scond layer is applied after coating the first and inside the second with unthickened epoxy applied via roller. Then I apply thickened epoxy to the inside second layer and using wood cut to the right length temporarily hold it in place until I can screw it tight to the first layer. The dificulties I have found are: (1) the epoxy work is quite messy; (2) i really have to hustle to beat the epoxy kicking too much (switching to extra slow hardener tonight) (3) having to sand off old epoxy from previous work so I have a good bonding surface. This job would be a lot easier if I had one or two guys to help and I had all day. Cest la vie. I'll get there. Depsite the dificulties, this is kinda fun but the novelty is wearing off. Its neat seeing a bottom appearing after months of looking at her skeleton.

[chuckt]

Making progress. Slow messy job. I think I'll be putting on this plywood at least the rest of the month. My shorts now stand up all by themselves because of all the epoxy I been sitting in.

[Tom Freeman]

That's tough sledding, Chuck. When you work overhead, you work against God.

[chuckt]

Yes--Flipping the boat sure would have made things easier. I think I was told that several times but I just couldn't muster the will to pull engines and build a contraption that would allow me to flip and then maneuver her into the work shop. It's going okay. I'm working with 12" "planks" now and that seems easier than trying to put on larger pieces. The bow will still be a challenge.

I still don't know whether to do a fiberglass layer for abrasion resistance. Applying fiberglass overhead I don't even want to imagine. Reuel Parker says its a must but I don't know. Need to put something on the bottom of the keel for abrasion--thinking Kevlar but a sacrificial shoe of white oak might be good--I just hate to put screws in the laminated keel and provide a path for water to get in it. I guess I could G-Flex epoxy or 5200 the sacrificial shoe on--hmmmm

[chuckt]

Inspecting the inside, I see I have some voids. Doggone it. I should have anticipated it because it happened in two predictable (in hindsight) spots. Both spots were in-between frames where two pieces of first layer plywood met. I think this happened because it was just the edge of the plywood and, because of the lack of framing at that spot, the first layer could flex slightly away from the second as I applied the second layer. For the rest of the second layer, I will be more careful these areas are screwed snugly to the second layer or add extra epoxy to fill the gap. I will repair these voids by drilling numbers of holes just through the first layer (from the inside of the boat) and then filling with epoxy. Then I will use blocks and wedges or screws or both to force the first and second layer into good contact.



I think this will be less of a problem, or will not be a problem at all, for the third layer because by then the first two layers will be quite stiff and there will be no unsecured edges. Maybe this is why I have heard some boat makers who do plywood bottoms screw the second layer to the framing as you would if you were doing traditional planking.

[chuckt]

More plywood going on the past week and for two more weeks to come. Here is a shot of the second layer at the bow going on at a diagonal.



This Meranti sure is stiff. I am having to screw a lot of blocks on to force these 4-5 inch "planks" to the previous layer and leave no gaps. I think I need to go with slightly narrower pieces. Also having to be careful that the first plywood layer doesn't move away from the second between frames as I am screwing in. A few strategically placed screwed-on blocks on the inside take care of this. One thing I like about the epoxy is it leaves a little room for error if things dont fit perfectly. I admire you traditional construction guys who must live up to a much more exacting level that I am not sure I can attain right now. It just wouldn't do in traditional construction for there to be an 3/16 gap between your plank and say, the chine log. Would it?

[sdowney717]

Are you going to glass it over when done?
You could even use kevlar cloth and keep those river logs from holing the boat and ruining all your hard work.

Making the plywood strips narrower and putting less stress into the glue laminations sounds like a good idea.

http://www.noahsboatbuilding.com/noa...atus=0&Tp=&Bc=
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...?pid=4264&BASE

How thick would you have to make it take a log without sinking your boat?

[chuckt]

Not sure what kind of blow she would take. 7/8 inch of alternating epoxied plywood will be considerably stronger than the original doubleplanked mahogany (I assume) but how much stronger I do not know. With Kevlar on the inside I think she would be extremely strong at the bow and it was in my plans to do this in the bow only. I have not decided about the rest of it but was originally planning on one layer of Xynole on the entire bottom. I am undecided as to whether this is worthwhile or a waste of time and money. What do you think?

[sdowney717]

IMO, not a waste of money
keeping the outer layers drier means less trouble I think.
And also the worms and gribbles wont be eating the wood.

Anything you do to improve the structure and survive ability of the boat will be appreciated most likely sometime down the line. If not you then the next owner.

Kevlar I was thinking you could do that on the forward bow area as the boat at speed is most likely going to impact in that area. Which is why you ought to also have a collision water tight bulkhead in the bow.

[sdowney717]

we recently lost the 'Barnacle Bill' in Hampton Va. The owner was up on the Rappahannock river and a freakish wave hit the stern. He said it was only 6 foot. The transom cracked open and the boat went down in 15 minutes in 40 foot of water. Boat was an old lapstrake sedan type of cruiser around 40 footer. Everyone on the boat is ok.

[chuckt]

A watertight compartment is an excellent idea. Glad you mentioned it. As you say, getting holed is likely to occur in the bow. I will take a look at it today and start visualizing.

[chuckt]

Does anyone know why the diagonal planks near the bow require a little tapering to fit snugly to one another? Obviously it has to do with the curve of the bow but I cant visualize what is going on spacially.

[chuckt]

Duh!. Nevermind--I figured it out playing with some pieces of paper taped to the edge of my desk. Twisting the planks forces it forward. It becomes obvious once you exagerate the twist.