1950 CC Cruiser Restoration

[chuckt]

Just realized I misnamed this thread--the boat is an "Express Cruiser" model--not the "Cruiser"

Well, I'm starting this thread 100 hours into the project but I really didn't want to start until I got through the "demolition" part of the project--not much interesting about that. Back to November--We had been looking for several months for a small Chris Craft bullnose cruiser (1950s). Several trips and a lot of internet browsing later, I stumbled across a 1950 cruiser that had been donated to the NH boat museum and had been sitting around attracking little interest. She had obviously been well cared for by the previous owner who did a lot of good things like replacing the wiring, adding decking, electronic ignition, etc. However, I could see she had some rot deep in the bilge and at least one cracked rib. And the bullnose had a lot of rot from sticking out of its storage shed.







$5000 plus the cost of trasnport to South Carolina and she was ours! There was a little excitement moving the boat to a lift to go on the tractor trailer. The trailer it was on had probably not been serviced in many years and the bearings on three of the wheels disintegrated. SoI had to pay extra for a local lift trailer to get her off the side of the road. the rest of the trip was uneventfuland she arrived in S.C. none the worse.



I was planning on building a garage so I went ahead and made a center section big enough for the boat. That project took a month and isn't really done yet.

[Lew Barrett]

That is a pretty cabin cruiser! The bullnose is a notorious weak spot, as you know.
Still, my favorite post war Chris Craft were built right smack in the middle of the vintage you have, just into the 50s. More pictures are always appreciated!

[chuckt]

First task was to get the garboards off. There was more rot than I expected at least six frames had substantial rot. There was an oily residue throughout, rot in the transom, and a couple of frames under the engine were oil soaked. The stem and gripe had areas of rot. I agonized over the plank removal because the outer planks looked really good but I finally decided the frame issus would be too difficult to address without doing it. Turned out to be the right decision. A substantial number of the screws had no "bite" in the wood at all and more rot was revealed as the planks came off. The first method I settled on for screw removal was to put a heavy wire brush on my grinder and grind away the filler material above the screw heads and expose them. At some point it was faster to run a sawz-all up both sides of the frames.

Postscript--I found the best way to remove the screws waswith an impact driver. However, if the slots had any stuff still in them it really helps to first take a phillips bit and hammer it into the screw a little to create better slots for the impact driver. If the driver spins in the head then the grabit tool was assume.

Oh--the pipe clamps were not a good idea because they werent wide enough to span the width of the stem and therefore applied more pressure to one side versus the other. I was able to shape the stem to fix the slight disfigurement this caused




Removing the aft planks required dropping the struts and pulling the prop shaft which was a huge pain.


The next step was dropping the keel. First, I built a support system. Dropping the keel was actually easier than I thought it would be. Removed all the nuts above the floor timbers and a little banging on the bolts and off she popped.



This was starting to be a lot of work. I really wanted to save the stem and gripe but it had a couple of areas of rot. I uncovered panking until I revealed good wood on the stem and cut off the remainder. I laminated a replacement and have done my best to replicate the angles. Unfortunately, the rot made it dificult to be sure I was getting it right. I'll have to fine tune it when I get it remounted.

[chuckm]

That is a very well designed boat shop. I esp like the side windows and air vent for light and air flow. Very nice.

[chuckt]

I have to confess that i will not be doing a traditional restore. Frankly, I have msigivings about this decision but have already committed to it. I am going to do a cold molded bottom. I guess I became sold on this when I saw a CC of the same vintage with one. Man is it solid! And this boat is going to on and off the trailer so I like the idea of no soaking in. Also, because the boat will live in the boat house well away from the water for several months of the year it is really going to dry out--I think the cold molded bottom will tolerate this much better than a traditional bottom. I do believe this bottom will be very strong and reliable over time. I struggled for a while about how to attach to the frames. The problem was the white oak frames have a rep for not taking epoxy well. I have decided to go with 5200 and screwing the first ply layer on. I really have misgivings about this because I know 5200 makes future repairs very dificult and destructive but I am very much a belt and suspender guy and I want no doubts about my bottom if I'm scooting between Florida and the Bahamas and get caught in bad weather. But I really have had second thoughts about doing it this way. (POSTSCRIPT: The frames turned out to be mostly mahogany. The consensus of the experts is that I would be fine epoxying to the mahogany. Also, I ended up replacing allmost all the lower frames with Douglas Fir so there actually wasn't much Fir to Mahogany epoxying going on. I used very very little 5200)

My plan on the frames is to replace those I must with laminated douglas fir and to add frames beside many of the old oak frames that are good enough to remain in the boat. The next picture shows what I have done so far to the forward frames and show my stem/gripe installed. The lamination is 12, 1/4" strips of DF and then I added more lams on top as "filler" so the stem/gripe fit into the existing frames. I really should have used more clamps and blocks. The curve did not come out true and I had to do some shaping to get it right. I'm using West epoxy for any laminations and, as I said, 5200 wherever I attach to oak. The Gougeon tech guys actually approved of using 5200 this way even though it isn't their product. I could have used West's G-Flex but the 5200 has a long track record of use in this way

[chuckt]

Guys--feel free to criticize or comment. While I'm a woodworker, I have no experience restoring boats. Keep me from screwing up if you can! I have brought you up to speed now and will be repairing frames for the next several weeks--then start the keel replacement. I hope I don't turn too many of you off by my decision to cold mold and use 5200. You purists just hold your noses and please help me despite my heresy.

More pics here http://s571.photobucket.com/home/cmeke0870/index

[chuckt]

Here is the boathouse/garage finished except for some more painting. I nixed the plans for windows all along the sides up top. I was tired of the project and anxious to get going on the boat. I think I will have to go back and add some insulation and a window air conditioner. It already gets rather warm in there even on 80 degree days. When we get into the 90s here (which wont be long from now) I imagine it will get rather unbearable

Thanks Lew and Chuck

If anyone can telll me how to make my pics a little smaller, I would appreciate it. I am using Photobucket








Here is a pic of a typical rotted frame. I may sister some in where the rot is not as extensive as this one but I plan on adding fir frames to bolster the white oak frames that I repair.

[chuckt]

Here is a pic of the boat on Lake Winnipisaukee (sp?) with her prior owner. I found out he was an older gentlemen who loved the boat very much. I managed to track down his son from some documents the museum gave me. He unfortunately became ill and I suppose could no longer keep up with her and arranged the donation to the boat museum. The prior name of the boat was "Nifty Fifty." She will be renamed after my two daughters "Emma-Kate"

Oh--in the process of researching, I found a guy in New Jersey who is restoring this very same boat right now. And then, just a few weeks ago a guy in New York contacted me and he is restoring the same model!! I think that's amazing to have three restores of the same boat going on at the same time and for us to have found one another.

[58Connie]

Great looking boat! my boat also came from Lake Winnipisaukee...so maybe they got to hang out sometime during their stay there! Keep the photos coming.

[240sxguy]

great boat, its nice to see someone making some progress unlike myself!

[chuckt]

Lew--What is the favorite you refer to? I love all these bullnose boats

One more frame done tonight. I'm not the first one to have repaired frames in this boat. Looks like a lot were cut out and replacement pices sistered in. These seem pretty strong but I cant stand how haphazard they look--no effort was made to make the sistering look workmanlike. To the left is the next frame to repair and to the right is an example of how I am sistering and bolstering the framework. (I stille need to sand to make it look more finished)

[chuckt]

FYI--I got a impact screwdriver yesterday only because it came in a 2 for 1 package. These are great! I wish I had it when I was removing all those screws. Its a little 18V Dewalt machine--really makes a difference extracting screws. I don't think I've have a single stripped head using this machine whereas a regular screwdriver seemed to strip every fourth screw head.

Taking the day off to satisy Uncle Sam's demands for paperwork and money.

[Grand Chillin]

Chuck,
I resize my pictures as soon as I load them on photobucket. When they finish loading move your cursor to the top of the photo and a menu will pop up.(You might have to click on the photo first) Use resize for standard sizes or edit for custom sizes. If the photo is already loaded just hit edit right above the picture. I hope this helps.
Did you find your Douglas Fir locally?

[chuckt]

Thanks GC--Yes, You can get it from Shuman Owens in Columbia out on Shop Rd near the stadium.

[Grand Chillin]

Your Welcome,
I have done searches for DF in SC on the net and always came up empty. The funny thing is I bought some nice cedar from them about 5 years ago to build some wood duck boxes. I quess they don't have a website. Thanks

[Lew Barrett]

Lew--What is the favorite you refer to? I love all these bullnose boats

Yours will do Chuck I say "Chris Craft" as a plural, rather than "Chris Crafts" so I'm speaking of them as a class.

For looks and ambience I like them through the first part of the decade, maybe through '53.

I'm not the CC expert here on the forum (I've owned one though) but I prefer the darker look and the somewhat more "pre-war" ambiance of the interiors and the narrower beams. But anything through 56 or so is good by me. And like a fair number of people, I have a preference for the bull noses as far as looks go.

Yours is a pretty model. A bit of 50s, a bit of deco.

[chuckt]

Thanks Lew--we love this boat. When I first saw her I knew I was going to buy her. I had to try real hard not to show my excitement and it was excrutiating waiting a few days to make an offer so they wouldn't know how anxious I was. Luck was on our side--they were anxious to move her and it was (is) a buyers market.

[ishmael]

When I was a kid, a boat that circulated in the mind was the Zibby M. Same hull form, but smaller, no cabin. It was one of the few CC built during the war. Mahogany was scarce so they planked her with cedar and painted the boat. A very pretty open boat.

Zibby, the woman, was a recluse, who summered in a replica of a Swiss Chalet. Not one of the erzatz replicas, a Swiss Chalet. She came from money, made from pumps, Meyers pump co.

She was married to Carleton Mitchell. Yes, that Carleton Mitchell. It always struck me as odd, the way money works.

Anyway, those are nice boats. Sounds like you've got your work cut out for you Chuckt. May the force be with you!

[chuckt]

Thanks Ish. I'll have to check Conrad's Chris Craft book to see which old CC you are talking about.

[nextse7en]

Do yourself a huge favor and pick up a pro grabit screw extractor bit for your driver. That one tool saved me at least 20 hours of manual screw extraction when replace the chines on my Chris.

You're doing a very clean job, always nice to see another bullnose saved from the burnpile, even if she is just a little tyke. (Spoken from the keeper of a 45' bullnose.) I think your reasoning and method for cold moulding the bottom is sound.

Only work when it's fun, take breaks from time to time, and keep your sense of humor about you. Other forum members have suggested keeping a "moaning chair" next to the boat, in the event of time consuming (and inevitable) mistakes. I've adopted that idea, and added a "moaning flask" full of fine whiskey.

Cold molding is a long, tedious, time consuming job, but I think the results will be payment enough.

-Patrick

[chuckt]

"Moaning flask" sounds like an excellent idea. However, it also might prolong the moaning chair sit. As someone suggested, I try to avoid contemplating everything that must be done. I try to only think as far ahead as the leadtime needed for ordering stuff. Anytime my brain involuntarily starts reviewing everything that must be done, I stick my fingers in my ears and loudly chant "la la la la la" until it goes away.

I really have nothing to post. Working on frame number 7. The rest of the frames have the petroleum gunk on them so it is time to do some degreasing. Haven't decided whether to use Dawn, engine degreasor, and/or the power washer. There are old posts suggesting all three and at least a couple of suggestions not to power wash. I'll probably experiment.

[Champagne]

Chuckt, fantastic boat, warms my heart to see you are restoring her keel & up.

The boathouse & garage is outstanding, I am very jealous.

Looking forward to following your progress, post lot of pictures please.

Brgds

Kim

[chuckt]

Thanks champagne. Its nice being able to walk 15 feet out of the house to the boat. I get a lot of work done in two hour pieces in the evenings. Won't be anything interesting to post for a while--I am working my way back frame by frame.

[Champagne]

Thanks champagne. Its nice being able to walk 15 feet out of the house to the boat. I get a lot of work done in two hour pieces in the evenings. Won't be anything interesting to post for a while--I am working my way back frame by frame.

I know how that feels, sometimes it takes months to get past labour intensive parts of the project and you don't really see any progress at all.

Keep up the good work

Brgds

Kim

[CByrneiv]

Here is a pic of the boat on Lake Winnipisaukee (sp?) with her prior owner. I found out he was an older gentlemen who loved the boat very much. I managed to track down his son from some documents the museum gave me. He unfortunately became ill and I suppose could no longer keep up with her and arranged the donation to the boat museum. The prior name of the boat was "Nifty Fifty."

Now that's interesting... I grew up summers (and some winters) on Winnipesaukee. The Center Harbor and Moultonborough area in particular, but my family had been on the lake since the late 50s, and all the long timers around the lake knew each other back then

There are only 8 real towns around the lake, and their year round populations are pretty low. Even today, the year round population around the lake is only about 45,000... and I'd wager it was more like 10,000 back then (and it's a pretty big lake). That was before they started allowing the condo developments, and the high density "lake accessible" planned communities etc...

My Grandfather bought 10 acres out at the end of Moultonborough neck in 1959, for $5,000, and built a house for another $3,000.

We had three different houses on the same lot over the years. The first burned down in.. '67 I think? They built a new five bedroom place (8 kids) and kept that til '87 when they actually raised the house intact, put in another floor under the original, gutted out the interior and completely rebuilt with a new layout etc...

Ended up with a 5,000 square foot, six bedroom, three bath "luxury home", with 200 feet of lakefront, a private dock, float, and mooring bouy (dock and moorage rights extended out 500 yards), hot tub, steam room etc...

We had that place (though we sold off five acres to finance a rebuild) until my grandmother sold it, a couple years after papa passed back in '96.

At the time, I had the money to buy it, and I wanted to, but my grandmother wouldn't sell it to me. She didn't want it staying in the family, because she thought there would be trouble over one of us owning it etc...

Anyway, to the relevant topic.

Funny thing... I'm pretty sure I've been on that boat... some time in the early 80s if I remember correctly.

It's the name that really pulls the memory for me; since there were more than a few similar boats out on that lake, but the name stuck in my head.

I'm pretty sure the gentleman in question was a friend of my grandfathers, but strike me if I can remember the name.

[chuckt]

That would be interesting. I think Mr. Steele acquired the boat in the 90s though but, of course, it could have already been on the Lake. However, I remember my contact at the museum saying it made a trip from Minnesota from a restorer out there (Mitch LaPointe?). Once again, however, maybe it was sent there for restoration and then came back to the Lake.

[54 Conqueror]

Chuck, great boat!

As you can see by my handle, I kinda like the old 50's Chris Craft's too :-)

Now about that garage.... DANG, I want one for my land based vehicles, cars, truck, tractors etc...

Was that from a kit or did you design and just go for it yourself? Beautiful work on both!

[chuckt]

Thanks a lot 54. I just made it up. It kinda fits in with the design of the house and the horse barn that is not far away.

I agree with you--there is something about those 50s bullnose Chris Crafts.


I am kinda bumming right now. It looks like I will have to cut out all of the remaining frames. I was hoping that most of the frames midships and back were fine. They look fine but they seem to have lost their density and are soft. Sigh.



Typical floor frame-soft and oily

[Grand Chillin]

Chuck,
I hate to hear about the other frames, but think about how bummed you would be to find out the frames were bad after you sealed the hull back up. Keep up the good work and keep us posted.

[chuckt]

Yes--I guess 60 years in the bilge will tend to soften wood up a bit. And you are right. Any time my brain says "Oh--its good enough, " I remind myself I don't want to find out I'm wrong somewhere between Florida and the Bahamas. Which reminds me of a story about the professionalism of the Bahamian authorities. I used to fly small planes (not any more). I took one trip to the Bahamas. All of the Bahamian radio navigation beacons were out of service so we had to rely on a uncertified GPS device. The Bahamian air controllers were laid back to say the least. They frequently did not return radio calls and, when I asked about conditions at my proposed landing airport, the response was "Oh mon--go ahead--you be alright." So--I'm not going to count on being rescued by the Bahamian Coast Guard--so these frames better be 100%

[58Connie]

You would have a real mess on your hands if you didn't replace those frames, sucks to think about how much longer its going to delay getting her in the water.....but it will be worth it!

Please dont even think about taking this boat to the Bahamas...really bad idea.

[chuckt]

Why is it a bad idea to cruise the Bahamas with this boat? Well, after she's restored that is. Its about an 80 mile scoot between Florida and Bahamas--and short hops from there. I certainly wouldn't risk the crossing in iffy weather but have been over there in similar size boats. Lots of protected anchorages and harbors once you get there.

[chuckt]

Here is the work so far. I'm up to frame 10 (counting both main and auxilary frames) which is not quite halfway. Time to buy more Douglas Fir today. I also spent time this weekend trying to get the forward frames fair. In another thread I talk about how the forward frames had been cut out at some point in the past and they didn't do good job of replication so it was dificult to get a correct replication of the original design. So now I am adding a couple of pieces and carefully sanding down others to get the correct shape.

I probably could just replace floor timbers on many of the frames but found that is was a lot easier to just cut out the lower part of the frame--floor timber and all. The floor timbers are glued to the frames with something that is very tenacious--takes a lot to cut one away from the frames. So I am just replacing the whole lower assembly of the frames. Like this:



Much to my surprise, beginning around frame 6, they are mahogany. These are clearly orginal frames and was very surprised they are not white oak. Some guys on the chris craft forum say Chris Craft did sometimes use white oak forward and mahogany for the rest.

I also experimented with degreasing. Scrubbed in engine degreaser followed by a power washing works remarkably well. Some (only a few) of the remaining frames now look pretty good but I think I will still stick to the plan to replace most. If I do this right, it'll be another 60 years or more before someone has to do much to her frames again.

[chuckt]

Well, I'm hitting my first significant discouragement. I wa skinda bummed when I figured out all the remaining frames need significant repair. Tonight I saw three frames in a row rotten up to the chine log--including the knees. When I examined the chine log, I see it is pretty rotten or soft 2/3rds of its length. Right now I dont know how to replace it or support the port side of the boat when I take the old one off. I have to remove my boat statnds under the chine log and then unbolt the log from all the knees. Really worried she might shift out of shape. Started a seperate thread to see if I can get some good advice on how to tackle this.

[Lew Barrett]

Sorry to see these extra torments Chuck. Go slowly and it will work out fine. It appears you have plenty of support to hold her there. Thank goodness you have a great working environment. This job might frustrate a lesser person but you are going to see it to a happy ending.

When I hit big snags in our restoration, I usually finished whatever I knew I had to do (that we'd torn into) and then took a break from it. Disappointment is part of these jobs sometimes, and the boats don't always come together in a "straight line" of progress.
You tackled a challenging project but with all your skills you are more than up to it.

Take a week or two's break if you feel discouraged.......

[Tom Freeman]

Chuck, I don't have any advice to offer here as I haven't done that bit of work. I will say that after pretty much living at Jensen Motorboat Company for 9 months, I saw a lot worse come and go. The repair is doable. Take your time and keep the faith.

[chuckt]

Thanks for the encouragement. Deep breath--plunge ahead

[Upshur]

fabulous. make sure you attach a brass plate somewhere inside with resoration info , date, name ,etc.

[Upshur]

Well, I'm hitting my first significant discouragement. I wa skinda bummed when I figured out all the remaining frames need significant repair. Tonight I saw three frames in a row rotten up to the chine log--including the knees. When I examined the chine log, I see it is pretty rotten or soft 2/3rds of its length. Right now I dont know how to replace it or support the port side of the boat when I take the old one off. I have to remove my boat statnds under the chine log and then unbolt the log from all the knees. Really worried she might shift out of shape. Started a seperate thread to see if I can get some good advice on how to tackle this.

OMG!

[Upshur]

Here is the boathouse/garage finished








Holy----, WOW, just put a hull on that and you'll be stylin.







Here is a pic of a typical rotted frame. I may sister some in where the rot is not as extensive as this one but I plan on adding fir frames to bolster the white oak frames that I repair.

Holy----, WOW, just put a hull on that and you'll be stylin.

[chuckt]

Thanks upshur. Not sure about putting a hull on the garage/boat shop. Don't really care for the ark look.

[chuckt]

After getting some good advice, I did the bracing pictured below, blocked the outboard stringer and pulled the plank above the chine. The rot was not as bad as it first appeared. I still have a 10 foot section in the middle to repair and 2 feet at the transom but this seems more manageable to me. I feel a bit like Chicken Little having overreacted.

[chuckt]

Rotten section of chine replaced and a couple more new frames. The next 8 frames should go more quickly than the others because I "only" need to cut out the lowest 3 feet of each frame and replace them. The last frame and the transom will be a mess but it will be a couple of weeks before I get there.

[Candyfloss]

Glad it turned out easier than you feared Chuck.

[chuckt]

Thanks Kiwi. I think will get a lot of frames done this weekend.

I wonder why it is that no matter how many times I dry fit the frame parts I make, they are never perfect when it comes time to glue and clamp. Oh well, thank goodness for sanding machines, fairing strips, and fairing epoxy

I am very glad I am replacing these frames. So far, every single one has been broken in the middle or so soft (from the oil I think) that I could fairly easily break it

[Pencils]

Great work Chuck! Love the shop. I have been replacing several of the same pieces and parts on my 1950 CC enclosed sedan. The transom was rebuilt last summer, and yes it can be a pain, but do not lose hope. You are doing a great job!

[chuckt]

Thanks Pencils--youv'e got a closely related boat. I'm still pluggin along replacing frames. 5 more until I get to the transom!

[chuckt]

Muuuh Haaaa Haaa Haaa Haa Haa Haa (evil laugh). I have found an unsuspecting naive college kid with no summer job to strip paint off my boat. Muuu Haa Haa Haa Haa Haa Haaa!!!!

Seriously--this has to be the worse boat job there is. I can't wait for him to get started.

[mucrewbtp]

Make sure he is a meticulous college kid with attention to detail so you dont end up with a bunch of scraper gouges in your hull from him trying to get the job done quickly.

On another note I feel your pain with the frame replacement. I am replacing all of the steam bent frames in a Lyman right now. Originally I thought I was going to do a few. After getting in to it, even what I thought were the good ones were a dive site waiting to happen.

Regards,
Mike

[chuckt]

Making some progress. Five more frames to repair and then I'm to the hot mess in the transom.

My college intern is doing a nice job scraping paint but he sure is slow. One full day of work and he did about 18 sq feet. Acually maybe that's not too bad to scrape off three layers of paint down to the wood.