Ultimate RAID boat

[OEX]

Classic Boat had a "design a raid boat" competition---any results yet or did I miss an issue?

Maybe we (WBFites) should design one? FreeShip people?

Any ideas on water ballast for a RAID boat---i.e pump it in as needed, out to row/drag in mud?

Cheers, Bruce

[YMT]

I was wondering about the same thing. Odd.

[StevenBauer]

The January issue has the winners, next month has the runners up. Also an article on Albert Strange yawls and one on sailing a Cape Charles 19. And another on Jamie and Niki Perryman's Auk dingy/lifeboat. ClassicBoat has shaped up into a great magazine lately.

The winner of the raid boat competition was David Payne's 'Perentie': 23' loa, 5'11" beam. Second is Matt Newland's Craic: 21'10" loa, 5'11" beam. Third is Francois Vivier's Beniguet: 19' 2" loa, 6'11" beam.
Also a neat article about "Sparkle"

Steven

[OEX]

How did I miss it---what are your thoughts on it?

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

Man... the mail is slow out your way. I got the issues with the runners up three days ago.

[StevenBauer]

No mail involved. I just go down to Hamilton's and buy it there. February hits the stands in England on Jan 15th but isn't at Hamilton Marine for a couple of weeks after that. Who designed the runners up? Any thoughts on the winners?

Steven

[Hwyl]

Bruce, would you like me to photocopy it and send it to you?

[OEX]

If I do not get it soon, I would love a copy. I have a two year subscription so it is just "out my way"---they loose a good amount of stuff too on the way here. b I will let you know in a week if it not there, thanks.

What are your thoughts though on what you have read?

Cheers

[J. Dillon]

I was thinking something along these lines. a jet ski hunter killer.


JD

[Donn]

I don't know what qualifies as a 'RAID' boat, but JD's got some nice armament on his.

[Thorne]

Bruce -

Sorta makes one wonder if the whole RAID system / event / idea is slowly settling into a more fixed scenario -- large bodies of open sea, boats that can't be rowed, etc.

The recent pics of the Scandavian RAID sure make you consider larger boats, but if the wind had stayed dead like the first day, I wonder if the ideal RAID boat wouldn't be a bit smaller?

Overall, I'm very excited about the whole RAID thing, and looking forward to taking part in the rough equivalent here in SF Bay & Delta this June 5-11.

[Hwyl]

Originally posted by OEX:

What are your thoughts though on what you have read?

The winner was based on an Australian surf lifeboat. A little out of the ordinary.

Somewhat inspired by P.I. Stazzer N's idea to outfit a Tornado cat with oarlocks. I was thinking and doodling an outrigger canoe with arched crossbeams (ala Newick ama or is it aka)so that oars could sweep underneath. A trampoline big enough to put a pup tent, but with general mummy like sleeping arrangement in the main hull. It turned out to be the good ship procrastination.

[ 01-27-2006, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: Hwyl ]

[OEX]

I see RAID boats based needs sailing where I grew up ---in and around downeast Maine. I want a light boat that I can drag over the mud, or even, in a pinch, logroll over an isthmus or...? I want a stable boat that will take gusty weather, I want to be able to row for short periods, I want an outboard (I not in RAID Races), I want ballast to get some sail up (water ballast seems good to me), centerboard, tent or? Structure ability....Shallow draft. Stable enough to jump in and out while afloat (swimming, off rocks, etc).

I use a Tehri plastic (ABS) boat up there to poke around and a Drascomb lugger---the lugger is too heavy, but the sail arrangement is great. The Terhi is a small double ender without sail rig or anything, but if it could be made in a light weight wood with a C-board, rig like the lugger, and water ballast it would be very close to what I think would work in most conditions. The Caledonia Yawl seems like a possible.
Plywood seems to be the answer (I do not like it, but for weight and strength---good for this application). Water ballast---what about two flex bags with hand pumps next to the c-board case?

cheers, Bruce

[OEX]

Tell more about the RAID in the SF area

[StevenBauer]

Have you seen this video Bruce?

www.whitehallatraidfinland.com

[Thorne]

SF Gunkholing starts at China Camp on the Marin side of the Bay, and heads off East to various parts of the Delta. At that time of year, it is very rough on the Bay -- in effect a HUGE downwind run often with the joys of mixed swells and counter-tides to make it even more wet.

This year the dates are June 5-11.

http://www.nps.gov/safr/local/odyssey.html

(from 2004: )

Gunkholing! - Maritime Park Association
Date: June 13-19
Fee: $160
Instructor: Pete Evans

Explore the rivers, bays, and sloughs of the area with a fleet of traditional small craft. Bring your camping gear, a seaworthy vessel, and a taste for adventure. The Park's scow schooner, Alma, will follow as a base camp. Reservations necessary. Limited space available.

[ 01-30-2006, 04:39 AM: Message edited by: Thorne ]

[OEX]

Whitehalls are just a bit too tender for me. Add a bit of freeboard, beam, and some ballast and your there.
But I do like the "not over designed, tradition tried and trueness"

cheers, Bruce

[OEX]

check out this thread---please-- link

I think I am going for a Moosabec Reach Boat at 18 X 5.5 feet. RAIDified a bit with sliding seat capabilities, floatation, etc. I went though Mystic Sewaports collection looking at dories, etc and that boat just caught my eye, and then screamed at me to get one on the water!!! Just too great.

Never know if the oslojollen is fun in a RAID during the summer---then, the REACH RAIDER might have competition?

Cheers, Bruce

[ 02-17-2006, 07:12 AM: Message edited by: OEX ]

[Thorne]

Bruce -- your link points back to this thread, but I assume you meant to point to a site showing the boat design you mention?

[OEX]

oops---sorry, fixed it and here it is too
link

cheers

[ 02-17-2006, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: OEX ]

[Craic]

An old thread,
but here comes another fairly new serious raid boat: The 'Multimono' from Philonautic in France. A bit too modern for my own taste, but sure goes well. Can be righted after a capsize by two crew, there is a capsizing sequence among the photos of the Sail Caledonia 2008, www.sailcaledonia.org .
The Multimono, and the SeaRaider from Swallowboats are IMHO presently the ultimate raidboats on the market.
C.

[CoastalRower]

In light of the upcoming Small Reach Regatta, can we resurrect some interest in RAID boat designs? Maybe WoodenBoat could do a feature on amauteur designs for camp cruising and raids much like they did several years ago for Subaru engine conversions.

[Thorne]

Swallowboats sure do some nice designs! Still think that the Ness Yawl has a lot to offer for courses that require a lot of rowing.

I missed the SF Gunkholing trip the last few years, but am participating this year -- in fact am all packed and ready to go. We will try something new - a loop through the Delta rather than a downwind trip, although I suspect that many of the smaller boats will need to be towed for parts of the upwind leg back to Eddos Boat Harbor.

The concept is somewhat different from what has developed out of the various RAIDs, but is well suited to the rougher conditions and limited anchorage/mooring/docking found on the wilder parts of the California Delta.

Certainly worth considering if an organization wants to host a RAID-like event but not have the race/competition element be so important -- and to keep better track of the participating boats.


2007 story & photos - http://ooto.com/blog/gunkhole07.html
(Click the photos to see three pages of images)
2007 video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8q0FhxjU1E

[Ben Fuller]

I echo Bruce. These boats for the Euro stuff have left rowing behind. If you can't row it pretty close to sailing speed you lose buckets of function. You only need water ballast or other movable ballast if your rig has grown so big that your butt on the windward rail can't hold the boat down. Just had the faering down at the museum for kids to crawl on as a unit in studying Norse boats. A few rollers ( pvc, but they could have been spruce) and its off the trailer and vice versa.

Harrier is going to be in the next Small boat magazine. They did not have much wind to play but the almost the most interesting part was going ashore to have lunch, then stick some fenders under Ran Tan for a relaunch. Could have done an isthmus like that.

[Captain Blight]

Instead of water ballast, even in jugs, why not a couple of 8'x4"-6" spars to be used as hiking boards, complete with trapeze(s)? Lash 'em alongside or even tow them when not needed, and they could double as rollers for land crossings. Wedge/lash them athwartships, side by each, and have somebody go for a short walk up the uphill side when needed.

[Craic]

.... These boats for the Euro stuff have left rowing behind. If you can't row it pretty close to sailing speed you lose buckets of function. You only need water ballast or other movable ballast if your rig has grown so big that your butt on the windward rail can't hold the boat down. ...

Not really. These Euro boats row at 4 knots, and sail 5-6 while tacking close hauled. Reaching at 8 - 10 even in rough seas. You cannot ever do that rowing or in a Faering. The new designs have the balance between rowing and sailing quite right, in the sense that they perform much better overall.

BTW, raid boats of today must comply with all mandatory RCD / ISO standards, typically for category C -offshore-. I cannot see a Faering type of boat comply with RCD /ISO. Too little freeboard, too tippy, probably unable to carry crew when swamped.

C.

[Craic]

An old thread,
but here comes another fairly new serious raid boat: The 'Multimono' from Philonautic in France. A bit too modern for my own taste, but sure goes well. Can be righted after a capsize by two crew, there is a capsizing sequence among the photos of the Sail Caledonia 2008, www.sailcaledonia.org .
The Multimono, and the SeaRaider from Swallowboats are IMHO presently the ultimate raidboats on the market.
C.

There will be three Multimonos in this years Sail Caledonia, crewed by some hard ex-services guys. As Sail Caledonia http://sailcaledonia.org/ is really the toughest and most sportive of all Raids in Europe, and as there will be a very varied and well qualified fleet in the competition this year, the overall results will give a good indication of the order of performance raidboats today.