H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

[Whameller]

"Very happy to have the cockpit side decks both glued down now and feeling really nice and solid. Took a bit of a mess of screws along the outboard edge to keep it nice and flat, I initially spaced them at about 150-200mm but the edge didn’t want to sit flat between the screws so I had to close them up a bit more - happy with the outcome:"

I think that's the penalty you have to pay because you have had to use a single layer of thicker ply, Greg. I haven't had that problem with two layers of 6mm (plenty of others though ....).
Looking good, very good.

[Larks]

"Very happy to have the cockpit side decks both glued down now and feeling really nice and solid. Took a bit of a mess of screws along the outboard edge to keep it nice and flat, I initially spaced them at about 150-200mm but the edge didn’t want to sit flat between the screws so I had to close them up a bit more - happy with the outcome:"

I think that's the penalty you have to pay because you have had to use a single layer of thicker ply, Greg. I haven't had that problem with two layers of 6mm (plenty of others though ....).
Looking good, very good.

It seems counter intuitive but I reckon you’re right Nick. The other penalty of using the stock of ply “leftovers” that I have is that there’s a little more scarfing involved and might look a bit more patchwork until it’s all cleaned up and painted

[Slacko]

The advantage of all that scarfing is that any rot you do get down the track stops at the scarf joints.

[Larks]

The advantage of all that scarfing is that any rot you do get down the track stops at the scarf joints.

Good point! I might start telling everyone that’s why I’ve done it this way....

[Larks]

‘Snuck a bit more decking on yesterday (showing off the patchwork skills ), over the bridge deck and a short length of the side decks either side. It’s really nice to have a solid deck to step off the ladder on to instead of just the framework but that’s as far as I’ll go for the moment while I get on with interior fit out. I’ve got a cupboard hard up against the hull side starboard midship that’ll need dismantling and moving to access that area properly and I’d rather leave that there for as long as I can.....

Some interesting scarfing in this section though, with joins on two sides - to both the cockpit side decks and bridge deck. Stb’d was a little easier because there was a gap between the two scarfs that were at right angles to each other, however the port side piece of ply that I chose was a bit narrower so I had overlapping scarfs - easy to say much less easy to paint a picture of and how tricky it turned out to be.........using epoxy for the glue down helped .......


Not quite the finished scarf joints but showing the start of shaping the two-way scarf on the port side:

[IMG]IMG_1728 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

The port side-deck to bridge deck scarf sits underneath that panel and over the bridge deck, but sit’s on top on the stbd side and under the bridge deck piece as I laid the stbd piece first, then the bridge deck piece and finally the port side.

[IMG]IMG_1732 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]


I didn’t notice until I downloaded the photos but that starboard deck to bridgedeck join ended up looking messier than what I expected to come out with from the more difficult port side one - I’d lost a bit of the leading edge of my bridge deck piece scarf so slathered a bit of epoxy over it at the last minute - in real life it doesn’t seem to look that bad and will clean up well enough:


[IMG]IMG_1734 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_1752 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[John Husky]

I really appreciate this thread. It’s a wellspring of techniques and clever solutions. Thank you for the content.

[Larks]

I really appreciate this thread. It’s a wellspring of techniques and clever solutions. Thank you for the content.

Thankyou John, and I really appreciate your comment, ‘makes it worth the effort of posting.

[Mike1902]

There are a lot of quiet observers out there Larks.
Progress is progress, you are moving right along, keep up the good work.
BTW I have one of those cordless Makita vacs, damned handy they are.
Cheers,
Mike.

[Illinois Switzer]

I really appreciate this thread. It’s a wellspring of techniques and clever solutions. Thank you for the content.

Agreed. No pretentions or unhelpful, unnecessary, condescending, childish references about "frozen snot". I'm all in on just about any boat building, repair of maintenance topic. Disparaging others just isn't cool. There's no way I could have pulled off building my overpowered "dingy" without a lot of sound advice gleaned from the members here.

[Mike1902]

[QUOTE=Larks;6371470]Very happy to have the cockpit side decks both glued down now and feeling really nice and solid. Took a bit of a mess of screws along the outboard edge to keep it nice and flat, I initially spaced them at about 150-200mm but the edge didn’t want to sit flat between the screws so I had to close them up a bit more - happy with the outcome:

Hi Greg,
May I suggest that next time you have to glue an edge as this that you screw through a strongback of some sort to spread the load along the edge. This would avoid the pressure points where the screws are inserted.
The strongback could be a stiff wooden batten or what I have used in the past is a hollow rectangular aluminium extrusion set on it's edge.
Cheers,
Mike.

[Larks]

[QUOTE=Mike1902;6375360]

Very happy to have the cockpit side decks both glued down now and feeling really nice and solid. Took a bit of a mess of screws along the outboard edge to keep it nice and flat, I initially spaced them at about 150-200mm but the edge didn’t want to sit flat between the screws so I had to close them up a bit more - happy with the outcome:

Hi Greg,
May I suggest that next time you have to glue an edge as this that you screw through a strongback of some sort to spread the load along the edge. This would avoid the pressure points where the screws are inserted.
The strongback could be a stiff wooden batten or what I have used in the past is a hollow rectangular aluminium extrusion set on it's edge.
Cheers,
Mike.

Thanks Mike, good idea. I confess that I took the lazy way out with the extra screws - I did think of pulling the screws out and running a hardwood stiffener over the top but I tried the shortcut route first (never usually a good idea) and fortunately it worked. I had expected the 12mm ply to be stiff enough but either the thickness of the epoxy under it or just that extra bit of twist and curve in that aft quarter held it up.

I closed up the screws a bit in that next glue up and didn’t have any problems but I reckon might get a few of strips of aluminium and drill them out ready to use as you suggest for everything moving forward, I guess essentially as long washers. I just need them flexible or short enough to cope with the curve of the hull but stiff enough to provide the uniform compression....

[Larks]

Agreed. No pretentions or unhelpful, unnecessary, condescending, childish references about "frozen snot". I'm all in on just about any boat building, repair of maintenance topic. Disparaging others just isn't cool. There's no way I could have pulled off building my overpowered "dingy" without a lot of sound advice gleaned from the members here.

Thankyou I.S., very much appreciated.

[Mike1902]

Sometimes too if at all possible is to place and fix a plastic covered block or thick ply under and over the scarf join edges. You would have to use something that would curve to the deck also. It can help line up the opposing surfaces as well as spread out any epoxy squeeze out, this will fill any small voids along the join as well as feather out the epoxy and ease the sanding process.
Cheers,
Mike.

[Larks]

Thanks Mike. Fortunately the scarfing has gone well so far (knock on wood - and apart from the one that I knocked the leading edge off of and filled with epoxy). I’ve cut them so that they line up over framing and the screws and washers have worked well enough levelling them out - I think the curve of the deck works to my advantage with the scarf’s bedding down. Where I didn’t have frames under the scarf's along the bridge deck I did have to back them with a block of plastic coated ply, they were only short scarfs but the blocks helped.

[Larks]

Believe it or not, this would be mockup #8 of my engine box arrangement.....

I keep going back and forward on this item but I think I’m getting close to what I want so this one is done from cheap structural ply rather than MDF so that I could make it a bit sturdier to check out step spacings.

Rather than use a seperate ladder I’m leaning towards incorporating the steps into the engine box as I have here (albeit they would be wider and deeper - these were old verandah plank pieces used just to check spacings), but I’m still not quite convinced....... my concern being that with the engine box cover taken off to work on the engine you’re access in and out of the boat becomes limited. IE if you need to get to the back of the engine you’d need to step onto the galley bench or nav’ table to get out.......

On the other hand I’m trying to maximise space in the cabin, particularly standing space in front of what will be the galley to port - doing without a ladder and using this arrangement will help with that...particularly if I can build the steps so that they can fold up flat against the engine box (and still be strong enough to take a heavy footfall in a clumsy seaway....)

[IMG]IMG_1764 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

Spacings are 300mm ........at the moment......... with the top step being the top of the engine box (cabin sole to bridge deck is an even 1200mm). If I go with this arrangement the steps will be the full width of the box face and deeper and I’ll likely recycle these teak steps to make them:

[IMG]IMG_1766 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

Mockup #7 about to be turned in to a mockup for something else....

[IMG]IMG_1765 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[WX]

Probably not much help but this was the engine box I built in Redwing.
EngineboxA.jpg

[Slacko]

I need to make an engine box too.
I'm still not totally decided whether to keep the cabin entry to starboard down the side of the engine, or rebuild the back of the cabin to come over the top of the engine. I'm leaning towards keeping the status quo for now. I think I have gained enough extra room to make it easier to negotiate.
The over the top option would need to have the steps built into it like you are proposing, so would have the same access issues once the box is off.

I met the guitarist of Status Quo at a party once by the way. We were giving him a hard time for still dressing like it was the early 70's.

[Larks]

Probably not much help but this was the engine box I built in Redwing.

Funnily enough I’d had an image of Redwings in mind when I was trying to come up with alternative concepts, but the uniform central box seems the best fit.

[Larks]

I need to make an engine box too.
I'm still not totally decided whether to keep the cabin entry to starboard down the side of the engine, or rebuild the back of the cabin to come over the top of the engine. I'm leaning towards keeping the status quo for now. I think I have gained enough extra room to make it easier to negotiate.
The over the top option would need to have the steps built into it like you are proposing, so would have the same access issues once the box is off.

I met the guitarist of Status Quo at a party once by the way. We were giving him a hard time for still dressing like it was the early 70's.

I’m thinking a small telescoping ladder hidden away in the laz’ for if/when it is needed would resolve the access issue: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/40265383...RoCcCcQAvD_BwE

[Andrew Donald]

I’m thinking a small telescoping ladder hidden away in the laz’ for if/when it is needed would resolve the access issue: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/40265383...RoCcCcQAvD_BwE

Genius, one of those ladders could be perfect when I finally get Margaret on the trailer

[MattSplatt]

I've been not looking at the forum much and didn't even know you were back into Larrikin work, Greg! I haven't checked since some time in mid 2019.

I've really enjoyed the catch up read. Thank you. Keep up the excellent work.

[Quest]

Mock up eight is an impressive amount of chin scratching. What material are you using when you finish planning? And how are you going to support the steps if I may ask? I need to put a couple of small ones on the side of mine about 20cm long (like a toe hold) to get up ontop.

Updated the signature block as well!

Mal

[Larks]

I've been not looking at the forum much and didn't even know you were back into Larrikin work, Greg! I haven't checked since some time in mid 2019.

I've really enjoyed the catch up read. Thank you. Keep up the excellent work.

Thanks Matt, very much appreciated mate.

Mock up eight is an impressive amount of chin scratching. What material are you using when you finish planning? And how are you going to support the steps if I may ask? I need to put a couple of small ones on the side of mine about 20cm long (like a toe hold) to get up ontop.

Updated the signature block as well!

Mal

You’re asking all the right questions Mal, the same ones that I’m asking myself. I don’t want the box to be too heavy as I want to be able to lift it completely out to access the engine, rather than make a door, but it needs to be sturdy enough for the steps. I plan to make it from the same 12mm marine ply as the deck, which I have swags of.

At the moment I’m trying to decide on overall colouring down that aft end - IE I pan to build the galley and Nav’ station out of the same red cedar as what I have up fwd but am debating whether to use Huon pine for the tops of both or something else - I need to experiment to see how well the two colours will go so closely together. The coach roof sides will be Huon pine so there’s continuity but in that instance it’ll be spared from the red cedar.

But the engine box will be first and so I need to decide whether to cover the engine box with a cedar veneer or to just paint it white with the Teak steps to seperate the galley and Nav cabinetry.....which is what I’m leaning towards.

I want to be able to fold up or move the steps themselves for clearer access to the galley area if wanted - two options that I’m considering are: hinge the steps with SS piano hinges and include a @1” square block underneath for a bit of extra strength - (Kate’s preference but I’m not convinced they’ll be strong enough)...; or build a seperate panel for the steps that can hook onto the front of the engine box with a couple of sturdy SS flat hooks to secure them.

The engine box itself will still need to be held in place sturdily enough to take a body weight on the steps and I’ve got a couple of these to secure it to the aft bulkhead, using hardwood backing blocks behind the ply:

[MattSplatt]

Could you hinge the steps but rather than a 1" block underneath have a hinged triangular ply brace which flips out (vertical hinge) under the step? You'd want it to be somehow captive in that position so it can only be folded away deliberately. That should make it possible to get plenty of strength but still have everything fold away flat.

[Larks]

Could you hinge the steps but rather than a 1" block underneath have a hinged triangular ply brace which flips out (vertical hinge) under the step? You'd want it to be somehow captive in that position so it can only be folded away deliberately. That should make it possible to get plenty of strength but still have everything fold away flat.

Sounds like a good idea Matt.

[Larks]

Another idea that Don, (Illinois Switzer) just put me on to might be to support the hinged steps with a strut up the outside corners through each step that would both support the steps and fold them up together - something like a loved blind control arm.......... 'got me thinking anyway

[gypsie]

my ladder seperates, i don't find it any trouble that i've noticed.
It would certainly solve a weight issue, and the box itself could be built far lighter.

Space when its all installed would be a consideration, i can see the attraction to built in treads there.

Simpler is better, unless of course......

[Hugh MacD]

Hmmmm....seperate ladder that can also be used as a boarding ladder????

[gypsie]

I wonder could you have a single step on a frame that fits around the engine box.
That could be replaced while the box is out to facilitate entry/egress at the same time.

IMG_7978.jpg

[Mike1902]

Gidday Larks,
Good progress there mate.
Why not make a separate step ladder , it would only be 600 mm high, not sure of the width but it should be easy to stow out of the way when you need access to the engine or the room.
Two treads, two stringers, rebate the bottom tread into the stringer, sit the top tread on top of the stringer.
There are various quick release ways to connect the top of the stringers to the box. A couple of towel bolts on the bottom (as long as the stringers cannot lift up) into the cabin sole to hold steady.
Light, strong, quick release, easy to stow and simple.
Keep up the good work.
Cheers,
Mike.

[Larks]

Thanks for the ideas and the interest Trev’ and Mike. I’ve actually already finished the engine cover and steps, 'just been a bit slack on the updates and photos and have now stripped everything out again, including the settee frames, to try and get the floors more level throughout before laying down the cabin sole.

I seem to be spending a lot if time waiting for paint and oil finishes to dry so it hasn’t felt like there’s been much of interest worth posting here.

[gypsie]

I love watching paint dry! Please post.

Seriously, paint is my world at the moment, so any discussion around the traps is of interest to me.

[Larks]

I’ve not been much chop at taking photos lately, I keep forgetting to take some - but a quick update to show that there’s still some action on the H28:

It’s all about the interior fit-out at the moment, which for the last 14 years or so has been the part that I’ve been looking forward to the most. So I’m trying not to rush anything here and also trying to remember ideas that I’d thought up along the way (mostly all forgotten.)

I confess that it’s going slowly because I’m finding myself reworking a few things that I’ve not been happy with - also somewhat more time consuming than I had planned for because I’m making and re-making a lot of templates and mockups. But overall I’m pretty happy with how it’s coming along.

Making up the settee back with storage space behind it. The seat back will hinge down to access the storage:

[IMG]IMG_1903 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_1906 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_1917 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_1925 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[Larks]

This rather cute eyed little tree snake isn’t likely to do me much harm with a bite and I’d left him alone because he’s a good pest controller. But I swear he’s been close to doing me in with a heart attack - twice I’ve nearly picked him up sorting timber and yesterday he just about landed on me as I was dropping the roller door - he must have been curled up inside it - so yesterday I moved him up the road a bit into some good bushland.

[IMG]IMG_1914 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_1896 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[gypsie]

Nice mate there Larks!

Have you got any guiding principals for the layout?

when i built a little runabout a few years back, we called it Picnic because we thought that's probably what we'll use it for most. half day trips to little coves and beaches, chuck in the hook, have lunch and motor back. As such i laid it out so everyone could face into the center - no thwarts. Worked really well. Convinced me of the value of thinking through likely 90% use and design accordingly.

With my current boat (thats on the hard) i'll use it pretty much anytime, but the family are only keen in fine weather. When its fine, the boys sleep on deck, so the v-berth is not used much. Me and SWMBO use the saloon berths. If i was designing from scratch i'd use the space forward differently, make storage better and maybe put the fridge etc.. up there. Or, flipping that, make the salon more ergonomic from a living perspective, and the V-berth easier to get into! Crawling all 6ft 4" of me in there is a joy to behold.