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Thread: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

  1. #71
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I hope not Jay, I've been watching this timber dry up and shrink over the last two years or so while I've been working away in Darwin, but will have a closer look and see if any can be drawn out easily. They do "sound" OK and those that are visible between the deadwood appear solid and don't show any signs of waste. I posted some pics of them on another thread a while back:
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?t=109980

    Keel bolts "seem" to be a mix of copper and stainless or monel. Those that only run into the deadwood appear to be copper but any forward that also run into the lead appear to be stainless or monel.
    On this copper one I've scraped off some of the verdigris to get a better look at the condition of it and there didn’t seem to be any wastage of the visible area:



    the one below is forward of that and also beds into the lead:



    those two as they line up:







    and here's an old photo and the thread from when I first started to worry about the shrinkage: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?t=82015

    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
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  2. #72
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Ahh, I am relieved to see that your bolts are not the galvanized that so many of the modified H28's were built with. Certainly then, shrinkage, albiet drastic, is to blame for the multipull gapposyies.
    Jay

  3. #73
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I was going to wait until I was finished with the paint stripping but Kate took a few pics today so 'thought I may as well post them. I still have a couple of hours to do tomorrow to finish the stern area and then I'll tent it up and set up a fan and extractor and sand her throughout the weekend after next. There's an area you can see covering about three ribs amidships that I haven't tried to heat strip, unlike the layers and layers elsewhere it's very thin paint so it'll sand off very easily when I'm doing the whole hull.

    I estimate that I've put in about 100 to 110 hours into scraping paint so far:








    Believe it or not, despite a very crook back from it, I've actually been enjoying this......

    Last edited by Larks; 07-17-2010 at 04:19 AM.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
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  4. #74
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Terrible admission isn't it but I enjoy scraping paint too! I hate sanding though .... Looks great Greg - you've got to be glad you've done it. Rick

  5. #75
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Well done Greg .BTW , that is definitely a case of applied mascochism !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  6. #76
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    It's definately something you need to keep going with while you're in the swing of it. I've been on it pretty well every spare hour, @2 to 3 hours Wednesday evenings, @4 to 5 Friday arvo's (2.00pm finish day) and every Sunday afternoon for about 6 - 8 hours. It's a bit like picking a scab really, then there's the motivation of looking forward to seeing how it looks finished. I also now need to get my back fixed but figure it's a waste of money until I've finished the job.

    The problem now though,... I'd been wanting a classic white finish and some mahogany details, but am now wondering about a varnish finish, the huon pine is just so nice. So the plan is to sand and varnish it anyway and if I want to paint it white later I still can.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
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  7. #77
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    This is a pic of one of the "openings" in the strip planking of the hull that I'll have to deal with. This particular one, and the one in the adjoining strip to the right, I plan to spline, it looks like it's been there for a while and been filled with sika or something at some stage. There are a couple of other much finer ones that I may just end up back filling with epoxy.



    As a result of the paint stripping I've pretty much contorted myself into every corner and angle of the boat and as such have seen much that I suspect the builder never expected to be seen again. There are a couple of ribs that appear to be cracked, but they appear to have been cracked during the build, which makes me suspect that the builder felt that the strip planking construction and second layer of rib would perhaps suffice to not bother replacing the cracked one. The boat has lasted fine for 46 years or so so it seems he may have been right. I'll get a couple of pics of them tomorrow.

    However, whatever I do now, I hope (intend) to do it in a way so that someone doesn't bust their back in years to come, only to grumble or swear at me for how I've done it.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  8. #78
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Glad to see that there's a respirator hanging there.
    You look a bit too clean and relaxed so it must have been at the beginning of the day

  9. #79
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Allison View Post
    Glad to see that there's a respirator hanging there.
    You look a bit too clean and relaxed so it must have been at the beginning of the day
    certainly was, I was just about to set up to get started up in the stern area when my missus snapped it. I've no idea what the old paint is so use the respirator religiously, also the head light hanging with it is one of the handiest things I've bought recently for this job.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  10. #80
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    FWIW if I had to do it and considering she's been out of the water for some years I'd think abt stripping the hull exterior first and laying on a thick coat of red lead/ white lead and then metallic primer. BUT do this in the most humid part of the year to minimise shrinkage of exposed timber surfaces. Then move to the interior, strip by sections and do all but the final coat in portions while replacing hanging and lodging knees where necessary, preferably with paperbark.

    If the deadwood and keel fasteners are OK but the gaps too severe for cotton caulking use oakum with an overlay of "shanam" (chiu naam) that is guano mixed with linseed oil. It sets up really quick! You may have thought of in the interim saturating the keel, keelson and deadwood in a mix of turpy and raw linseed and linseed oil.

    As you have chocked the hull very carefully to minimise distortion then check stringers, beams and other structural timbers very carefully as these can again distort the hull form real quick if not fastened soundly.

    As for the engine beds then again turpy is a good choice but steer clear of metal esp the greater if the variation in the galvanic series the greater the rate of corrosion of all metals.

    Apart from that as she'll be used in a mild climate I'd recommend a bridge deck to improve engine access and lengthen the cockpit space to abt 7 foot (can sleep outside) while trimming the coach house abt 2 foot at the front and run a full through deck mast. Jest my trey bit's worth.

    After a minimalist fitout of white painted ply with varnished solid timber cap mouldings then I'd recommend a cutter rig with a taller stick and Robert's yer father's brother!
    Last edited by purri; 07-17-2010 at 06:41 AM.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Looking good Greg! I should go for an "extended site visit" to Riverstone and pop up for a cuppa and a sticky one arvo. Be interested in seeing how your irrigation system is working on those gaps in the backbone.
    Jarndyce and Jarndyce

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  12. #82
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Hey Greg you weren't at the Coomera Service Station today were you? I was waiting for a coffee and someone that looked like you walked past.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  13. #83
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Hey Greg you weren't at the Coomera Service Station today were you? I was waiting for a coffee and someone that looked like you walked past.
    Not today Gary. At work for a couple of hours this morning then home all day.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  14. #84
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I heard Brad Pitt was at Coomera today - was probably him. Easy mistake to make. Rick

  15. #85
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Well, the positive way to look at stripping as you are doing it is, that you will never have to do it again. That is one of the rewards of doing a job right. Dremmel makes brass wheels for their grinder. I should think that would be an answer for your delema.
    Looing good!
    Jay

  16. #86

    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    yeah good on yer Greg

  17. #87
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I'm glad I didn't call out to him then.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  18. #88
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    Looking good Greg! I should go for an "extended site visit" to Riverstone and pop up for a cuppa and a sticky one arvo. Be interested in seeing how your irrigation system is working on those gaps in the backbone.
    You know you're welcome any time Duncan, though I've stopped the irrigation while paint stripping. I had too much paint and dust falling through the garboard gap and into the reservoir so decided to leave it until I've finished with the scraping and sanding. I'll then give it a bit of a go with either the salt water or ethylene glycol.

    Meanwhile though, a bit of another milestone having today actually finished all of the paint scraping with just the area amidships left to do that I'll sand out in two weeks when I sand the whole hull and the frames:



    The cracked ribs that seem to have been there since build. Starboard side:



    The other side of that rib:




    A little further aft:



    and the other side of that one:

    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  19. #89
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Amazing tenacity Greg and an inspiration for all!! Good job you've got done so far and I agree totally with your getting into the zone when doing this sort of work.Mind-numbing, back-wrecking,arm wrenching work that just feels so darned good when it's over that you almost want to keep doing it....almost!

    Continued success!!!



    Cheers!

    Peter
    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
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    This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by purri View Post
    As for the engine beds then again turpy is a good choice but steer clear of metal esp the greater if the variation in the galvanic series the greater the rate of corrosion of all metals.

    Apart from that as she'll be used in a mild climate I'd recommend a bridge deck to improve engine access and lengthen the cockpit space to abt 7 foot (can sleep outside) while trimming the coach house abt 2 foot at the front and run a full through deck mast. Jest my trey bit's worth.
    Thanks for the input Purri, most of what you've said I've had quite a bit of time to consider options and opinions before moving ahead so think I'm on the right track. We're thinking much along he same lines regarding the set up for use in mild weather though, I am certainly aiming to set her up for more "outside" living more than inside and that is one of the reasons for taking her back to the lower original single level coachroof.

    I'd also wanted to "stretch" the cockpit but had been hesitant to do so whilst the framing seemed all quite solid. However having now found some bogged up rot in the aft corners of were the coachroof sat I'll need to replace that cross beam and as such have the opportunity to "modify" my cockpit a bit and go back to what I had originally hoped to do.

    So the plan will be to remove that cross beam with the rot, sneak the front end of the cockpit bridgedeck / aft end of the coachroof forward approx 300mm with the new cross beam, likewise the aft end of the bridgedeck with another new beam, and replace the longitudinal side frames of the cockpit and at the same time widen the cockpit by @100mm, each side.

    This will not only give me a modestly larger cockpit but will allow me to fit the engine through the cockpit well rather than through the companionway.

    Here's a rough pic of the plan, if you can make it out, showing the areas of rot in the frames (circled) the beams to removed and roughly where the new ones will be:

    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  21. #91
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by P.L.Lenihan View Post
    Amazing tenacity Greg and an inspiration for all!! Good job you've got done so far and I agree totally with your getting into the zone when doing this sort of work.Mind-numbing, back-wrecking,arm wrenching work that just feels so darned good when it's over that you almost want to keep doing it....almost!

    Continued success!!!



    Cheers!

    Peter
    Thanks Peter.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  22. #92
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    In the case of streatching the cockpit, there would be no harm in building it to the original plan. More than that might be risky.
    We can jamb nearly ten friendly people in "Bright Stars" copit during cocktail hour.
    Jay

  23. #93
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Greg, I can walk you through the maze of mast building when the time comes. I am planning to rig "Bright Star" with the sloop mast that LFH designed for the H28. However, I will keep the mizzen in place. This puts the proportions similar to what he designed for "Araminta" and in my humble opinion is an all round better choice for the H28 if you don'e mind reefing more often. It will give more power in light airs which is where the H28 needs more power under sail anyway. Oddly enough the boat performs better with the working jib than it does with that big "Rule Cheating" genoa that requires an extra "Gigolo Yacht Jockey" to handle it.
    Fair Winds, and more input on your progress if, you have time.
    Jay

  24. #94
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Thanks Jay, 'not sure if I mentioned it before but I bought her with quite a new aluminium mast and rig so the plan is to put that back in, for the time being at least. I don't have a particularly handsome budget at the moment so any new timber spars will be off in the future a bit. Once I've finished sanding the interior I'll get some paint into her and then start on replacing those deck beams, as well as another cracked one further forward, after which I'm looking forward to working on some of the interior fitout before I put a deck on.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  25. #95
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Nice work Larks. BTW the composite ribs shown may be of CTP (celery top) as the growth rings appear a bit wider than what Huon usually has.

  26. #96
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by purri View Post
    Nice work Larks. BTW the composite ribs shown may be of CTP (celery top) as the growth rings appear a bit wider than what Huon usually has.
    I reckon you're right Purri. Though I was a bit surprised to find some huon pine in some of the deck framing and, foolishly, I ran the sabre saw down the middle of the old cabin top sides before realizing that it was also huon pine that had been glassed over. I didn't pick up the smell because I had a mask on for the glass, a shame because despite the large window cutouts I could have saved a couple of nice long lengths. As it is I still have some good pieces but will have to strip the glass off them before I can use them.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  27. #97
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Nothing particularly special to report, I still need to get back in and sand the hull back however our dust extractors are in use on a project at work so I've left that alone until next weekend. But I have found something else to occupy a pleasant winters Sunday afternoon here.

    I'd found this length of hardwood in a shed at work, Queensland blue gum I think, which is just the right length to make a new timber compression post from:




    It was only just the right length so I didn't want to loose too much in cleaning it up, so a very small slice to square the end up:





    And it weighs a heck of a lot for its size, approx 40-50kg(ish) and is bloody hard, however my el-cheapo GMC thicknesser didn't seem to have too much trouble with it, just took it slow and steady:



    and what a nice colour this timber is!!:



    I know I could probably do a better job on a bigger and better planer and with a decent feed bed either side, but I have to say that I'm quite pleased with the result with the GMC and a bit of care using this dodgy set up:

    Last edited by Larks; 08-01-2010 at 05:19 AM.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  28. #98
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Still quite a bit of work to do, but this is what I got out of that length:




    The plan is to laminate it as a box with a bit of hollow to run the masthead wiring up from below rather than along the cabin top, and although I may still thin the middle lengths down a bit so that it doesn't look quite so square, this is roughly the idea:




    I think it will be quite an improvement over the aluminium one.

    It will also be quite a bit heavier than the aluminium one, however I pulled out a few lead ingots and length of chain up forward that was obviously there to trim the hull, so I'm doing a bit of a weights on/weights off exercise as I rebuild this boat with the aim of building in a little more weight forward, a little less aft and moving a little more from aft to the midships area (water and fuel tanks from under the cockpit to under the saloon area):



    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  29. #99
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Larks, you are making great progress! I am interested to watch how your deadwood and keel take up. We are in the same...boat..so to speak.

    Black Spirit Dead Wood Thread

    Looking good!

    DG
    "The desire to build a house is the tired wish of a man content thenceforward with a single anchorage. The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth, unwilling yet to accept the idea of a final resting place." -Arthur Ransome

  30. #100
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Hi,
    good to see that you could find something to keep yourself busy with

    That Blue Gum post looks so much better than the piece of Aluminium junk next to it, way better!

    keep up the good work!

    Have Fun,
    Allison

  31. #101
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Greg, just a thought re your compression post and wiring. It's probably a good idea to keep witing out of the bilge and it's also a good idea not to run wiring straight down from the mast as moisture will run down it. You should always have a loop just below the deck whenever wiring runs through the deck so that water can't keep running along the wiring. It's also not a good idea to have a hole through the deck below the mast as a lot of water runs down the mast. You need to sit the mast on a block with drainage onto the deck. You should have your wiring set up so that it loops at the bottom of the mast, inside the mast, then exits the mast through a side hole then goes through the deck beside the mast. You can use small skin fittings on the mast and deck with the wiring enclosed in tubing for this.

    Inside, instead of running the wiring along the cabin ceiling, why not hide it behind a cabin top beam and run it across, and then run it back under the shelf. That way it's high and dry and you can't really see it. Rick

  32. #102
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    That is going to be a huge improvement aesthetically. Nice chunk of wood you found.

  33. #103
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Thanks guys, and a good point well made Rick!! I'll freely admit that I hadn't thought of moisture copming down inside the mast, I was really just being a bit opportunistic with using the cavity in the compression post, I wasn't going to actually run it into the bilge but out through the side of the mast step and along the top of a floor. So with a new game plan for wiring, when I make up the deck beams I reckon I might make up one with a bit of a sneakily hidden cover piece on the back side so that I can run the wiring along but still hide it (after the deck has been nailed down). I have a bit of a thing about wiring, I don't want to see any of it from any angle, including when laying in bed at night and peering up into all of the hard to see gaps under the deck (yes I know - dim lighting can hide all sorts of sins - but.....I'll know it's there)!!
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  34. #104
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Larks it looks like your getting ready for 20 coats of varnish


    [/QUOTE]

  35. #105
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by ramillett View Post
    Larks it looks like your getting ready for 20 coats of varnish

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, although I hadn't planned to varnish the interior, wanting more of a white and mahogany look finish, I reckon I will do so in the saloon and forepeak so that I still have the option to paint her white later if it doesn't look right.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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