H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

[RFNK]

Greg, just a thought re your compression post and wiring. It's probably a good idea to keep witing out of the bilge and it's also a good idea not to run wiring straight down from the mast as moisture will run down it. You should always have a loop just below the deck whenever wiring runs through the deck so that water can't keep running along the wiring. It's also not a good idea to have a hole through the deck below the mast as a lot of water runs down the mast. You need to sit the mast on a block with drainage onto the deck. You should have your wiring set up so that it loops at the bottom of the mast, inside the mast, then exits the mast through a side hole then goes through the deck beside the mast. You can use small skin fittings on the mast and deck with the wiring enclosed in tubing for this.

Inside, instead of running the wiring along the cabin ceiling, why not hide it behind a cabin top beam and run it across, and then run it back under the shelf. That way it's high and dry and you can't really see it. Rick

[banjoman]

That is going to be a huge improvement aesthetically. Nice chunk of wood you found.

[Larks]

Thanks guys, and a good point well made Rick!! I'll freely admit that I hadn't thought of moisture copming down inside the mast, I was really just being a bit opportunistic with using the cavity in the compression post, I wasn't going to actually run it into the bilge but out through the side of the mast step and along the top of a floor. So with a new game plan for wiring, when I make up the deck beams I reckon I might make up one with a bit of a sneakily hidden cover piece on the back side so that I can run the wiring along but still hide it (after the deck has been nailed down). I have a bit of a thing about wiring, I don't want to see any of it from any angle, including when laying in bed at night and peering up into all of the hard to see gaps under the deck (yes I know - dim lighting can hide all sorts of sins - but.....I'll know it's there)!!

[ramillett]

Larks it looks like your getting ready for 20 coats of varnish


[/QUOTE]

[Larks]

Larks it looks like your getting ready for 20 coats of varnish

[/QUOTE]

Yes, although I hadn't planned to varnish the interior, wanting more of a white and mahogany look finish, I reckon I will do so in the saloon and forepeak so that I still have the option to paint her white later if it doesn't look right.

[banjoman]

I vote white with bright beams.
After discovering what was under the paint on Starduster, I am not sure I will paint another thing ever on a wooden boat though.

[ramillett]

It is nice to build your coats with clear , you can always go white

[Larks]

It is nice to build your coats with clear , you can always go white

Ramillett, I must sincerely confess that it was that bilge of yours that inspired me to consider varnishing my huon pine one. I'll still do the deadwood/keel timbers and floors in red lead and maybe off white and have a go at varnishing from the garboard seam up, the huon pine won't rot so doesn't need the red lead.

[Larks]

Here's a bit of a hint as to what I got up to today:



A slightly bigger hint:




It wasn't actually this - which is what I did last night - glue up of the compresion post:




But another hint:



And the result - lots of dust:



After sanding off the thinner paint on the port side amidships which had proven difficult to move with the heat gun and scrapers. Here's the starboard side that I'll do next weekend:

[Larks]

And after cleaning out the dust:



Not a terrific photo, but I'm reasonably pleased with the result. I still need to sand the areas that I'd stripped with the scraper and heat gun but this amidhsips area I may keep clear varnished, 'not sure yet how it will look but I'll probably varnish it with the option of overpainting it. The hull interior had obviously never been faired, presumedly because it was behind the bunks and cupboards, but having now sanded that back to reasonably fair it would seem a waste to hide it behind too much furniture.

[The Bigfella]

Can I park Grantala in your shed for a few months. Now that you are getting the technique right, it'd be a shame to stop at 28'

[Duncan Gibbs]

Ian, is this an admission that you may have too many projects?

How about bumping their respective threads now you're back home. I still reckon you should sand back and re-varnish those cabin top section of Huon.

Nice work Greg! Aren't those sand/grinder /polishers are terrific tools!

[Larks]

Nice work Greg! Aren't those sand/grinder /polishers are terrific tools!

Thanks Duncan, they are pretty useful tools......but...... they need quite a bit of controlling and have the potential to cause a lot of damage very quickly if you don't have a good hold on them.

I'd now have to say that if anyone was asking for the best way to strip paint I'd advocate the heat gun and scrapers over the disc sander/grinder, especially inside like this job. It's been OK for me and necessary for this area which had proven difficult with the heat gun (I assume because of the thin layer of paint) - but it did take a bit of strength and energy and was a bit of a chore rather than the more quiet, dust free, "rythmic" experience of the heat stripping.

[AlanL]

Thanks Duncan, they are pretty useful tools......but...... they need quite a bit of controlling and have the potential to cause a lot of damage very quickly if you don't have a good hold on them.

I'd now have to say that if anyone was asking for the best way to strip paint I'd advocate the heat gun and scrapers over the disc sander/grinder, especially inside like this job. It's been OK for me and necessary for this area which had proven difficult with the heat gun (I assume because of the thin layer of paint) - but it did take a bit of strength and energy and was a bit of a chore rather than the more quiet, dust free, "rythmic" experience of the heat stripping.

In both cases you would have to make certain you are well masked up. Dust and chemical breather for both. Some pretty nasty chemicals in that old paint and you never know what has built up in an old bilge (much like the forum on here ) especially if it has had a diesel engine in it.

[Larks]

Absolutely Alan, I use a very good Sundstrom respirator system

[AlanL]

Absolutely Alan, I use a very good Sundstrom respirator system

I have seen quite a few boat builders who use nothing or at best those little tissue face masks. For the sake of machismo it really isn't worth it, not when you see what can gather.

[WX]

For sanding back Redwing I had the beltsander and a Triton random orbiter sander disk for the 100mm angle grinder. The Triton was the best though I killed it. The beltsander needed careful handling.

[AlanL]

As a matter of interest Larks, did you use sand paper pads? I have used those 3M paint stripper wheels on a number of projects now and find them to be far more kindly (care must still be taken of course, but mistakes in handling are less likely to do irreparable damage). I have used them on both the ange grinder and standard 10mm chuck drill. The drill was more effective and easier to control. The amount of rubbish thrown off was horrendous, however

[Larks]

As a matter of interest Larks, did you use sand paper pads? I have used those 3M paint stripper wheels on a number of projects now and find them to be far more kindly (care must still be taken of course, but mistakes in handling are less likely to do irreparable damage). I have used them on both the ange grinder and standard 10mm chuck drill. The drill was more effective and easier to control. The amount of rubbish thrown off was horrendous, however

Yes I did Alan, 7inch 60 and 120 grit velgrip discs (Velcro grip) on the sander/polisher (hence all of the debris in the pic' before cleaning up) and 5" velgrip discs on a random orbital sander to finish off and to get to some more difficult spots and I used a Zircon fix-clean disc over/around the rivet heads to avoid sanding them off:

[AlanL]

That thing in the picture is what I was referring to. Been pretty impressed with their performance. Obviously different brands/names depending on the market. I have also bought packets of 10 from somewhere in China, but very cheap.

[Duncan Gibbs]

Thanks Duncan, they are pretty useful tools......but...... they need quite a bit of controlling and have the potential to cause a lot of damage very quickly if you don't have a good hold on them.

Yup! I had a few close shaves doing The Mighty Pippin. On edge with 120g it'd rip right through the old 5mm ply. Luckily I made my mistakes on timber that ended up being rotten and requiring removal.

[Larks]

A bit of a victory today, I've finally finished the toughest part of the paint stripping process today with jut some slow and tedious sanding left to do, including fairing all of the deck frames smooth of lumps of glue, old ply and bog.

Here she is today, it was quite nice curling up in the bow to take this picture and spending a bit of time looking back at the shape of the frames and curve of the hull:



a slightly different angle:





and looking back up to my spot in the bow:

[The Bigfella]

Congratulations sir... looking good.

[Duncan Gibbs]

Looks like you'll soon be at the 'adding new bits' stage. That's when you'll really feel like you're progressing.

Well done mate!

[Thad]

Looking very good and fun looking at that shape, even from 10,000 miles away.

[Jay Greer]

Impressive look at your hull Greg! I am reminded again of the genious of Herreshoff who purposly left out bilge and quarter stringers in order to avoid creating hard spots on the framing. He always noted that "Bilge stringers are too close to the center of gyration to be of any effect."
Nice work on stripping!
Jay

[Larks]

Thanks all, and yes Duncan, I'm now "feeling" things going in. One of the nice things about doing this paint stripping exercise has been the thinking time available to think about how to resolve the few little issues that I need to fix and how the fitout is going to proceed.

The first "bits" to go in will be some paint, preceded by probably some CPES along the garboard seam to give me a good bed for the seam compound that I'm going to use there, which will be Fixtech's "Fixseal". As much as I'd like to consider some more traditional seam compound, everything I've looked at so far points to this being the best long term and most reliable option, as long as I clean the seam out properly first and provide a good preparation/bed for it.

I'll then get the mast step refitted and the compression post in place so that I can plan the cabin layout around it.

I bought myself a new toy on the weekend to help get the compression post and fitout in at the right angle, this handy Bosch digital level/inclinometer:
http://www.sydneytools.com.au/shopexd.asp?id=7748&bc=no
It gives me the angle of the water line to the horizontal - 3deg, so that I can accurately set everything up inside relative to the water line.

[RFNK]

Interesting what you say about stringers Jay! The Twister I'm restoring has stringers (quite substantial ones) and I wonder whether I should remove them. I probably won't simply because I'm reluctant to change the design of the hull but I do wonder whether they could do more harm than good.



Rick

[WX]

Looks like you'll soon be at the 'adding new bits' stage. That's when you'll really feel like you're progressing.

Well done mate!

I loved it when I got to that stage.
Still trying to workout where to put my big Henderson bilge pump though.

[Larks]

So back to the compression post for a bit of a diversion from sanding. I glued the pieces up last week with epoxy:



and had a bit of a play this arvo with the planer:



and just because I haven't been doing enough sanding I kept going until I came up with this:



so which compresion post do you reckon I should use??? (not varnished or oiled, just wiped over with a bit of turps to bring the colour up - I'll probably seal the ends and seat in the step with red lead or CPES, but dress the post and visible part of the step with Danish oil rather than varnish):







I'll need to re-square the ends to lock into the mast step and a top plate, which will both be also out of blue gum.....(by crikey but it's bloody heavy!!!) but otherwise I'm pretty pleased with how it's turned out.

[Allison]

so which compresion post do you reckon I should use???

Oh that's a no-brainer that aluminium one just looks so fine, it has all the character you could possibly want, especially after sanding and stripping all the inside of the hull!!

[Larks]

so which compresion post do you reckon I should use???

Oh that's a no-brainer that aluminium one just looks so fine, it has all the character you could possibly want, especially after sanding and stripping all the inside of the hull!!

yeah,...maybe I should spray the inside of the hull with a silver hammer finish pant.

[Allison]

Well it would save you having to worry about anymore aesthetic judgements for the rest of the job. From such a low point there would only be one way to go!

[RFNK]

I think you're just showing off! Use the aluminium post and try to be more humble!! Rick

[Larks]

I think you're just showing off! Use the aluminium post and try to be more humble!! Rick

You're absolutely right Rick, guilty of showing off a bit, but I am really quite surprised at how nicely this timber has come up and it reinforces for me the need to keep at least some of the huon pine hull showing, I think the two timbers are particularly compatible with each having a kind of nice warm depth of colour.

[RFNK]

Well, I reckon it looks great! The only reason to paint the inside of a boat is to keep it all light, I think. Many boats with varnished interior seem quite dark and unwelcoming inside. However, huon is such a lovely light timber that I'd certainly varnish it (nice satin finish) if I were you. Also you get to REALLY show off all your stripping work. If I were you I'd leave all the huon bright and just paint the ply furniture etc. with a nice off-white or cream enamel. You can trim it up with a bit of something that matches the compression post, framing or planking ....

I'll send you my bill for interior design consultancy later by private post .....
Rick

[Larks]

Well, I reckon it looks great! The only reason to paint the inside of a boat is to keep it all light, I think. Many boats with varnished interior seem quite dark and unwelcoming inside. However, huon is such a lovely light timber that I'd certainly varnish it (nice satin finish) if I were you. Also you get to REALLY show off all your stripping work. If I were you I'd leave all the huon bright and just paint the ply furniture etc. with a nice off-white or cream enamel. You can trim it up with a bit of something that matches the compression post, framing or planking ....

I'll send you my bill for interior design consultancy later by private post .....
Rick

That's pretty much my thinking as well Rick...great minds eh!!

[PeterSibley]

Greg , I reckon you have earned all the showing off you desire ! Well done indeed .

[AlanL]

That's pretty much my thinking as well Rick...great minds eh!!

You just trying to get out of paying the bill :P

Nice lump of wood that. Got to use it now.

[wizbang 13]

Sitting up in that bow lookin aft is where I sometimes get stuck, with a 6 pack. Here is an h28 I saw the other day, very clean.

[Larks]

Sitting up in that bow lookin aft is where I sometimes get stuck, with a 6 pack. Here is an h28 I saw the other day, very clean.

It's a surprisingly comfy spot isn't it Wiz!! That seems to be quite a high freeboard for a H28, but she does look very nice.

[Phil Y]

Look'n good Greg. I haven't seen either party announce a policy yet, maybe its in the fine print. But I'd say it should be illegal to paint Huon Pine.

Phil

[Larks]

Had a long weekend here this weekend so did a bit more tinkering with the mast step/compression post set up. I had been given a nice big heavy lump of Spotted Gum a couple of years ago specifically for the new mast step and was lucky enough to be given another plank of it last week to use for a few matching bits and pieces here and there. Here's the step itself next to the compression post (which is when I realised that the compression post is blue gum and the step spotted gum, although very similar in weight):



I made up a base surround using some of the SG plank:



Nice to be able to grab some tools from work, this barrel sander is a very handy bit of kit:



But the Dremel ended up doing most of the shaping work to get it right - I love that tool, even on this incredibly hard wood:

[Larks]

Anyway, long story short - this is what I came up with:



and with the compression post fitted:





I'm not sure that I've done the right thing with the varnishing though. I'd used Danish il on the compression post but decided that I'd sand it back and varnish it, so went down to the paint shop specifically to buy some satin finish varnish, however I found myself talked into buying a water based floor finish - Cabots CFP: http://www.cabots.com.au/interior/fl...waterbased.asp by the guy in the shop who claims to have been a boat painter/finisher prior to working in the shop. I had used this product on our Jarrah floors in Darwin and remember it beng very tough indeed, easy to apply and actually a better finish than the two pack product that we'd used in other parts of our house up there.

I was really trying to avoid having anything that looked like a "plastic" finish, which is also why I've become so fond of Danish oil and other similar products and why I've lost touch with what varnishes are available. Anyway, I've done it now and looks pretty good really after three coats, I'll see how it hardens over the next couple of days.


Meanwhile though, while waiting for the paint to dry, I scrounged a heap of scraps about the house to make up a set of stairs for accesing the boat - sort of at my missus request because she didn't like balancing on the top of the ladder to get in, but also because it actually saves a bit of space by being able to tuck it behind the shed pillar, where the ladder wouldn't fit. It also gives me a staging platform that extends back to my makeshift storage loft. No work of art, banged up literally out of rough cut bits of scrap with the nail gun in about an hour, but bloody solid.

[seo]

Years ago I put a bowsprit and masthead stay on my H-28. It worked okay, looked good, I'm not sure it was worth the effort.
But as I was trying to figure out how to proportion the bowsprit, I spent a lot of time looking at other LFH designs in "Sensible Cruising Designs," and ended up seeing the LFH used a pretty consistent ratio of 7:1 deck length : bowsprit length. My layout ended up being based on Neriea, and Araminta, as I remember. This was 28 years ago...
Another thing that I noticed in LFH's plans was that if you lay a straight edge on the line of the top of the coachroof, the line will just touch the stem. This is common to many of his prettiest boats, and I think that it's critical in tying the sheerline and upperworks together visually. If the line projects above the stem, the cabin trunk will look bloated and ungainly. If the line dives into the foredeck, the boat will have a sort of salty-mate, "arghh, me hearty" look, which I think looks okay in profile, less so from other angles.
SEO

[RFNK]

Looks great Greg! Those steps are a good idea. I'm going to build some when I get more time to devote to the Twister. Remind me to send you a proper ruler by the way so you don't have to keep using that cricket bat. Rick PS I'm also a big fan of the Dremel!

[JimJ]

by crikey but it's bloody heavy!!!

It will let you carry a bigger Esky in the cockpit

[peter radclyffe]

your steaming Greg, thats the first time i've seen spotted gum, it looks like iroko or keruing

[Larks]

Thanks guys. Yes Peter, the spotted gum is quite similar in appearance to Iroko, though I reckon it's quite a bit heavier - I'm not familiar with keruing.
And you're right Jim, it's all about trim!!

[Duncan Gibbs]

Very nice mate! I do like you air driven Dremel!