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Thread: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

  1. #1226
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    I say paint.
    Agree but I'm rubbish at maintaining bright work.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  2. #1227
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Paint is ok but I do like a bit of varnish for contrast. In fact, I get a chance do a bit of daydreaming and planning of other projects during varnishing breaks. Varnish, to me, is only a hassle if it is let go too long. I use the best brushes I can afford, good varnish and attitude for the job before it gets too long in the tooth!

    A varnished deck house on the H28 makes a good looking contrast to a well painted hull. My own choice and favorite wood for trim is Honduras Mahogany, Bright Star is African which takes a bit more of a fuss to stain it. but it is durable and gives good service. Plus, it looks great when varnished. We varnish Bright Star once a year which takes roughly a week for two of us to accomplish. Masts are done every two years and take about four days to sand and lay on two coats from a boatswain's chair. Since I grew out of my job, I let my wife Anne enjoy the view from the custom chair I built for her. wear sunglasses in order to see the contrast of the holiday skips and thin spots. Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 02-14-2017 at 02:23 PM.

  3. #1228
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    She looks lovely Jay. Well kept varnish does. On other peoples boats

    Greg, it would be worth giving Rogue Empire a call, in Huonville. They are mostly a furniture and antiques store, but have a back room stacked with slabs of tassie timber. And I think I saw a sign in there saying delivery $60, any amount to anywhere in Australia. Big slabs of Huon which would do a cabin side in one go were about $400. I didn't check the price of celery top, but probably cheaper and a great timber, stable, hard and pretty. As I say worth a phone call.

  4. #1229
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Thanks for the comments all, plenty to think about. However I will definitely be giving her a bright finish, that’s been the plan since the very first day I took her on and with Bright Star as the bench mark I know I’ll have my work cut out to come even close to her finish.

    Thanks for the heads up re Rogue Empire Phil, I’ll definitely give them a call and I’ll also price up the celery top for comparison. I had been considering it but a few bits that I looked at on line seemed to be similar in price to the Huon pine. That freight cost, if they’re fair dinkum, sounds worth taking them up on.
    Larks

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  5. #1230
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Greg my experience from the architectural side is that strong sunlight will degrade the timber colour radically, and no UV inhibitors or anything similar will prevent this, though they might slow it down a bit. I'm completely with you on the varnish, and, as long as the hull is white, I also like the lighter coloured timber for cabin sides. However, if the hull is darker, I think the lighter timbers for cabin sides look s**t (less than attractive). So I think cabin sides choice of timber needs to be done side by side with topsides colours. And lastly, in our climate, I think you need a cover over all brightwork, even the small stuff. But you're probably on top of all this already.
    Flat bottomed boats, you make the rockin' world go round.............

  6. #1231
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by johnno View Post
    Greg my experience from the architectural side is that strong sunlight will degrade the timber colour radically, and no UV inhibitors or anything similar will prevent this, though they might slow it down a bit. I'm completely with you on the varnish, and, as long as the hull is white, I also like the lighter coloured timber for cabin sides. However, if the hull is darker, I think the lighter timbers for cabin sides look s**t (less than attractive). So I think cabin sides choice of timber needs to be done side by side with topsides colours. And lastly, in our climate, I think you need a cover over all brightwork, even the small stuff. But you're probably on top of all this already.
    Yes John, topsides will be an antique white, which I think I’ve now got reasonably formulated from the Thames skiff build. And agreed re the covers over brightwork, I’ve been keeping a bit of a quiet eye out for an industrial sewing machine so that I can make covers up myself, eventually.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  7. #1232
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    For Mahogany the trick of not having the color bleach out is to first use filler stain. I mix Interlux red and brown mahogany half and half to get the color of freshly varnished unstained Mahogony before the sun bleaches it. A coat of clear acrylic lacquer sealer goes on first to prevent the stain from muddying the grain pattern. Once it drys, often ten minutes on a hot day, the stain, which has been thinned to the consistency of buttermilk, is applied and wiped off with terry cloth or burlap just as it hazes off. Let it dry overnight and apply the first coat of varnish thinned out with turpentine to get penetration. A full strength hot coat can be put on as soon as it is tacky. If time permits, lay on a third coat when that tacks.
    Double coating can be done up until the sixth coat. I sand beween the next two. Hot coating gives fast build up. Eight coats is the magic number. More than that and you risk turning the job "Varnish Sick" which can result in blisters that result from heat soak and an overly thick skin. Filler stain is made of earth pigments and will not bleach in the sun.
    Jay

  8. #1233
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Yes John, topsides will be an antique white, which I think I’ve now got reasonably formulated from the Thames skiff build. And agreed re the covers over brightwork, I’ve been keeping a bit of a quiet eye out for an industrial sewing machine so that I can make covers up myself, eventually.
    I've just bought one of these for just that job Greg. A friend has one and says it's capable of sewing 5 layers of canvas.
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Singer-se...YAAOSwhOVXeGB0

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  9. #1234
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I've just bought one of these for just that job Greg. A friend has one and says it's capable of sewing 5 layers of canvas.
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Singer-se...YAAOSwhOVXeGB0
    Thanks Peter, what sort of dollars do you think they’re worth? This one says pick up only - any idea on weight if I need to organise a courier?
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  10. #1235
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I paid $100 for mine so I'd just keep an eye out for one at a price you like. Courier probably although Oz Post would do it. I'll go weigh mine now .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  11. #1236
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Greg, 14 kg.with the case.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  12. #1237
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Thanks Peter - it’s not something that I’m in any great hurry for, got a few other priorities ahead of that. I’m hoping to find one closer to home that I can see running first anyway
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  13. #1238
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    This is the machine .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  14. #1239
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    For Mahogany the trick of not having the color bleach out is to first use filler stain. I mix Interlux red and brown mahogany half and half to get the color of freshly varnished unstained Mahogony before the sun bleaches it. A coat of clear acrylic lacquer sealer goes on first to prevent the stain from muddying the grain pattern. Once it drys, often ten minutes on a hot day, the stain, which has been thinned to the consistency of buttermilk, is applied and wiped off with terry cloth or burlap just as it hazes off. Let it dry overnight and apply the first coat of varnish thinned out with turpentine to get penetration. A full strength hot coat can be put on as soon as it is tacky. If time permits, lay on a third coat when that tacks.
    Double coating can be done up until the sixth coat. I sand beween the next two. Hot coating gives fast build up. Eight coats is the magic number. More than that and you risk turning the job "Varnish Sick" which can result in blisters that result from heat soak and an overly thick skin. Filler stain is made of earth pigments and will not bleach in the sun.
    Jay
    Thank you Jay - I’ll confess here that I have a “Jay” file on my computer, which I started in 2009 and where I tuck away all of these gems of advice. Your experiences are not something that can be found in books or google searches and I value them highly.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  15. #1240
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    She looks lovely Jay. Well kept varnish does. On other peoples boats

    Greg, it would be worth giving Rogue Empire a call, in Huonville. They are mostly a furniture and antiques store, but have a back room stacked with slabs of tassie timber. And I think I saw a sign in there saying delivery $60, any amount to anywhere in Australia. Big slabs of Huon which would do a cabin side in one go were about $400. I didn't check the price of celery top, but probably cheaper and a great timber, stable, hard and pretty. As I say worth a phone call.
    Interesting: I’ve compared a few prices and, if I’m doing my calculations correctly, I’m seeing plane Huon pine planks (i.e. not advertised as highly figured or anything special) for sale at roughly $12,000.00 m3 from one seller, $15,500.00 from another and even $24,444 from one .

    But Celery top is showing around $5,000 m3
    Last edited by Larks; 02-15-2017 at 12:00 AM.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  16. #1241
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    For canvas work you don't need a industrial walking foot machine. Any old all metal domestic with a 4-5mm zig-zag will do. My favorite would be a Necchi BU like this one: http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/kirri...ine/1133869032 It's nowhere near you but the price can't be beaten. Old Necchis are almost always undervalued because people don't know them. They only heard of Singer, Pfaff and maybe Bernina, never of Necchi, Janome, Toyota, and others.
    If you like to spend money buy this one, it's a sailrite: http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/kawun...ine/1138499933

    For the cabin I would go for the plywood option. It gives you a leakfree substrate you can then veneer with your choice of wood. You probably could do everything out of your mahagony plank, maybe even the interior if you can slice it thin enough and reduce waste. All matching of course.

  17. #1242
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I've been looking at sewing machines too, for sail covers and the like. As far as I can tell industrial machines just go really fast. As suggested above, many older home machines will do the job just fine.

  18. #1243
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Thank you Jay - I’ll confess here that I have a “Jay” file on my computer, which I started in 2009 and where I tuck away all of these gems of advice. Your experiences are not something that can be found in books or google searches and I value them highly.
    Larks, I had to learn the hard way. As a result of all that effort I try to make things easier for my peers. Have you chosen an engine yet? I am still seeking one for "Bright Star" without having made a final choice. I am leaning towards the Kohler as it is light.
    Jay

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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    Larks, I had to learn the hard way. As a result of all that effort I try to make things easier for my peers. Have you chosen an engine yet? I am still seeking one for "Bright Star" without having made a final choice. I am leaning towards the Kohler as it is light.
    Jay
    I’m still waiting on a price for the Kohler/Lombardini Jay, so at the moment I’m leaning most heavily towards the Yanmar 3YM20. It is bigger and heavier than the Kohler but similar weight to the old Volvo 2002b that I took out, is actually coming in reasonably competitive on price and the Qld head office is very close to home.

    The owner of the marine engineering company that I used to manage is in the process of taking over the Kohler distribution so I’m expecting to get a pretty good price out of him.
    Greg
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  20. #1245
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    Larks, I had to learn the hard way. As a result of all that effort I try to make things easier for my peers. Have you chosen an engine yet? I am still seeking one for "Bright Star" without having made a final choice. I am leaning towards the Kohler as it is light.
    Jay
    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    I’m still waiting on a price for the Kohler/Lombardini Jay, so at the moment I’m leaning most heavily towards the Yanmar 3YM20. It is bigger and heavier than the Kohler but similar weight to the old Volvo 2002b that I took out, is actually coming in reasonably competitive on price and the Qld head office is very close to home.

    The owner of the marine engineering company that I used to manage is in the process of taking over the Kohler distribution so I’m expecting to get a pretty good price out of him.
    Greg

    Jay, since posting the above I’ve received a revised “boat show” price on the Nanni 3.21 and the price on the Kohler (Lombardini) LDW702 and have gone from getting excited about the Nanni (because of price and inclusions) to getting excited about the Kohler because I can get it at an exceptionally good price compared to normal retail (through my industry contacts).

    So I’m now bouncing between the Nanni and the Kohler, each has different benefits -

    - the Nanni is 3 cylinder so should be smoother running, but the 2 cylinder Lombardini is supposedly more modern technology so possibly as smooth running;
    - there is only 7kg difference in weight
    - the Kohler has a 120amp alt v the Nanni at 70amp, but the Nanni (if I am reading it correctly) has an option for a boiler to be installed using the heat exchanger - (I’m still trying to work that one out - this is the comment in the product blurb: "The latest generation heat exchanger im-proves the temperature regulation, whichquality can particularly be appreciated when aboiler is installed. “)
    Last edited by Larks; 02-16-2017 at 03:38 AM.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  21. #1246
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    We heat water from our Yanmar, works well. Hard to know what mr Kohler is talking about though. You heat from the engine coolant, which should be temperature controlled by a thermostat. And I think you might be talking amps, not hp on the alternators.

  22. #1247
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    We heat water from our Yanmar, works well. Hard to know what mr Kohler is talking about though. You heat from the engine coolant, which should be temperature controlled by a thermostat. And I think you might be talking amps, not hp on the alternators.
    Of course, been a long and challenging day - (was playing on the WBF for a bit of relief)
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  23. #1248
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    The engine in "Bright Star" was Universal Atomic 5416 twin diesel that produced 16hp and weighed in at 365lbs/165.5kg.
    I have always wished the engine were lighter in weight. It was installed in the 1960's and gave good service but, even though it had a head exchanger, it gave up to a perforated water jacket and was unreparable. We considered the Yanmar but, I still want less weight in the stern. It looks like the Kohler/Lombardi will be the one I will take. It produces 18HP, two more HP than the old engine and it weighs in at 99kg/218lbs which is 147lbs lighter than the old engine. That makes an amazing difference to my thinking!
    Thanks for the reference to the Kohler/Lambardini Diesel Larks!
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 02-16-2017 at 01:56 PM.

  24. #1249
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Of course, been a long and challenging day - (was playing on the WBF for a bit of relief)
    I can't remember whether I know what work you are doing in Darwin, but if it's one of those top secret Navy jobs you might want to go back over what you did yesterday

  25. #1250
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Finally - after such a long hiatus in the saga of the H28 Larrikin rebuild, (due mostly to working away from home for most of the past few years) today is officially my first day back on the job (until the next contract comes up, possibly in a few weeks).

    Todays task has been to get the covers off, drag all of the last few years of accumulated “stuff" out from around the boat to regain access and to empty and open up the bath and inspect what’s been going on in there.......



    And confession time:

    One thing that I’ve been fretting about for the last few years whilst away from her, has been just what is going on inside that bath and what possible damage have I been doing to an otherwise good hull? Have I slowly turned the deadwood into a pile of rotten pulp and/or have I destroyed what previously appeared to be good keel bolts because of the bath???

    (and am I tempting fate by using photobucket for these pic’s?).

    Well the timber where the water sat certainly looks rather manky and less than pleasant, though there were no bad smells emanating from the bath and, as best I can see. there’s no new rot as a result of the bath. I’ll give it all a good wash with chlorine before repainting it and reestablishing the bath.

    I note that the timbers had taken up more since caulking so that’s also a good indication of the success of the bath in closing up what had been quite gaping gaps when I first went away for work and left her uncovered in the shed.






    I had added a decent quantity of pool salt to the bath when I first set it up, in the hope of avoiding any rot, but I worried what they may do to the fastenings and keel bolts so I dropped an anode in around the aft end as well, (that was probably six months or more after I first set the bath up.)

    I had been keeping an eye on the anode for a while and it didn’t seem to be having any action when I last looked (though I really can’t remember how long ago that was, could have been a year or more ago, the last few years have gone so quickly....).

    But I note that it does seem to have been having a bit of a party since then:






    I’m thinking that’s a good thing as it shows that it has been working and the rudder pintle looks solid and unaffected, but I am still worried about what may have been going on with the keel bolts.

    So before I really crack on with the fit-out, I’m thinking that I really want to set my mind to ease and come up with a way of inspecting those keel bolts without too much pain.

    When I say "set my mind to ease” - I mean in terms of feeling safe when I launch her. If I do have to replace the keel bolts I want to know now rather than when the lead drops off under the slings at the marina. It’d be nice if they turn out to be all solid and in no need of attention, but my gut is saying they’ll be otherwise.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  26. #1251
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    What are the keel bolts Greg ? Stainless, bronze, copper ?

    and it's great to see you on the job again!
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Cool, I've been looking forward to the next chapter. The gaps have closed up from what I remember......could go back and have a look at the early pics I suppose.

  28. #1253
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    What are the keel bolts Greg ? Stainless, bronze, copper ?

    and it's great to see you on the job again!

    They look like copper - this from back when she was all opened up:

    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  29. #1254
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I am glad to hear the bath was successful and your finding some time for the old girl. Good idea to check some of the keel bolts, since loosing the keel while underway would be costly .

  30. #1255
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Full copper fastening seems to be an Australian only thing. A friend of mine, my age who did his apprenticeship at a yard called Goebbel and Fleming in Brisbane about 50 years ago said a 45 foot trawler would be completely copper fastened, the largest diameter being 5/8'' copper rod. No ballast keel of course.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  31. #1256
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I’m thinking I’ll get on with the fit-out and leave the bath dry for a month or two to let the timber dry out a little, without letting it open up again, and then lift the hull up off the keel an inch or two with some bottle jacks to get a look at the bolts.

    If they do need replacing I’ll most likely need to drag the hull out of the shed and get a franner up her to lift the hull right off the keel bolts, pull the lead out to the side, replace the bolts and then get the framer back again to lift the hull back on again.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  32. #1257
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Also found a few new opening glue lines in the planking so will go back and give them the remediation splining process that I did with the earlier ones and I still want to replace (or sister) a couple of floors (probably with some of that timber that you gave me for my 50th Peter).
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  33. #1258
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    62,133

    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Franna ?

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  34. #1259
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia, Australia
    Posts
    913

    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Greg, good to see you back at it.

    She's an extraordinarily beautiful boat, receiving the very best attention!

  35. #1260
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    62,133

    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Greg, do you want me to delete that crane image ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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