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Thread: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

  1. #2346
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    We had a metre of rain here in five days, with half a metre of that falling in the 34 hours from midnight Sunday to 10AM yesterday - Monday. So we won’t be doing any glassing this week while I let the hull dry out a bit. It’s in the shed but 55 years of being in salt water means that the hull does a nice job of soaking up atmospheric moisture and there’s but plenty of that.......

    Meanwhile I’ve been debating for the past few weeks whether to cast my bronze chainplates or to shape them out of flat bar stock. I’ve never done any bronze casting before but it’s something that I’d like to learn - the cost of setting up for it has been what’s been putting me off and had me leaning towards cutting and shaping them from flat stock.

    However the condition of my bottom rudder pintle is kinda’ pointing me back towards the casting option.


    You can clearly see the dezincification around the cracked area - not worth trying to braze it back together I’m thinking so I’ll use it as a mould for a new one.


    [IMG]IMG_3138 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_3139 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_3140 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    My father was a partner with a cousin in a non ferrous foundry, specialising in boat fittings. His skill set iwas primarily as a moulder. It will be a very rewarding exercise to research and set up to cast your own.


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  2. #2347
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Well done on the hull Greg you must be stoked.

    If you set up to cast the gudgeon would that have you in a good place to cast more pieces later on?
    I recall Don Kurylko's build a while back, he made some great templates by warming up acrylic sheets over the shapes he wanted, like mast fittings etc...
    would be a great freedom to be able to deliver that to yourself.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  3. #2348
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Looks like a great excuse to pick up some new tools and skills, Greg.

  4. #2349
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Thinking about it more: I could make my own kiln and tongs so I think I really just need a crucible and some casting sand - as well as the refractory blanket and refractory cement for the kiln.

    Having seen what the very much missed Peter Sibley achieved with the anchor windlass that he cast himself I’m quite interested in learning the skill. And yes, as you say Trev’, I reckon I’d do a lot more with it after the boat parts are done....
    Larks

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  5. #2350
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Well done on sanding the hull back Greg, not a job I’d be volunteering for. Looks beautiful. Just on casting your fittings, you’ll have to allow for shrinkage so using your old fittings as mould-patterns won’t work if you want new fittings the same size. I had some portholes cast and they came out a bit smaller than the patterns. You’ll have to make new larger patterns.

  6. #2351
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Donald View Post
    Well done on sanding the hull back Greg, not a job I’d be volunteering for. Looks beautiful. Just on casting your fittings, you’ll have to allow for shrinkage so using your old fittings as mould-patterns won’t work if you want new fittings the same size. I had some portholes cast and they came out a bit smaller than the patterns. You’ll have to make new larger patterns.
    Thanks Andrew - that’s really interesting to know and not something that I was aware of. I’ll need to read up on shrinkage rates, volumes and so on.
    Larks

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  7. #2352
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    You really wouldn’t think that this boat has been out of the water for about 15 years:

    Above the waterline:

    [IMG]IMG_3145 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]


    Below the waterline:

    [IMG]IMG_3146 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_3150 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_3152 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]



    And with more rain expected for another week or so I can’t see any glassing happening anytime soon......sadly...



    (and I can’t work out why my photos have suddenly gone large format, I’ve not changed any settings anywhere????)
    Larks

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  8. #2353
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    ^ I'm not sure how those moisture level meters work, but if it's more or less just measuring resistance, how reliable is it on old timber that has probably had a good dose of salt soaked into it.
    I mean, wouldn't it feel damp, if it was really at 44%?

    Pete
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  9. #2354
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    ^ I'm not sure how those moisture level meters work, but if it's more or less just measuring resistance, how reliable is it on old timber that has probably had a good dose of salt soaked into it.
    I mean, wouldn't it feel damp, if it was really at 44%?

    Pete
    It does indeed feel (and look) damp below the waterline Pete, which is what prompted me to check it with the meter and monitor it. When it was still raining heavily (Monday), there were beads of moisture on the surface of some areas. Although the timber below the waterline always looked a little darker than above after the paint came off (from 40 years of seawater saturation), it looks quite a bit darker and damp at the moment.

    The difference above and below the waterline is very noticeable.

    These pin type moisture meters measure conductivity rather than resistance - the higher the moisture level the greater the conductivity.
    Larks

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  10. #2355
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Any thoughts on whether I’ve overlooked anything here for pouring some lead? Any issues that I’m not seeing?

    This is for an additional chunk of lead to be fitted up forward of the existing lead ballast (which I’ve discussed elsewhere in this thread) but I’ve never undertaken this sort of task before.

    The mould is made from plaster and has been drying for quite a long time so I have no concerns regarding moisture.

    The frame has proven sturdy enough for the amount of lead that I’ll melt and the gas bottle crucible is easy enough to tilt all the way using an old piece of angle iron and with the weight in it as shown in the photos below. There will be a little more on top of this but given how easy it was to control as is I don’t have doubt that it will be just as easy to control.

    My plan is to raise the burner on blocks to melt the lead and when it is ready remove the burner and slide in the mould to pour directly into it.......

    I’ll have a sheet of cement fibre board alongside the whole setup as a shield from heat and lead splashes.

    Question? Do you think I need a spout on the crucible to direct the lead or will the lead play nicely and pour cleanly from the lip as it is? (Since answered - I will add a spout)



    [IMG]IMG_3188 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_3190 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_3188 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_3189 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_3191 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_3192 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_3194 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]
    Last edited by Larks; 03-08-2022 at 03:47 AM.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  11. #2356
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I think you’re right Greg, create a small spout by bending a small lip out with multi grips. Molten lead is surprisingly “watery” so rather than a 2” wide mess flowing out o he edge, trying to direct it more or less can’t hurt. Try it with water to see how it pours. I’m wondering from which end of mould to pour into may be better. The shallow end may be better due to less distance for liquid to travel and splash? Dunno

  12. #2357
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I dont have first hand experience, but looking at the crucible I think a simple spout may avoid the lead running down the side of the container, and also avoid a splash if you try to avoid that happening by tipping it more suddenly.

    Good luck with the pour!
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Donald View Post
    I think you’re right Greg, create a small spout by bending a small lip out with multi grips. Molten lead is surprisingly “watery” so rather than a 2” wide mess flowing out o he edge, trying to direct it more or less can’t hurt. Try it with water to see how it pours. I’m wondering from which end of mould to pour into may be better. The shallow end may be better due to less distance for liquid to travel and splash? Dunno
    Quote Originally Posted by Stiletto View Post
    I dont have first hand experience, but looking at the crucible I think a simple spout may avoid the lead running down the side of the container, and also avoid a splash if you try to avoid that happening by tipping it more suddenly.

    Good luck with the pour!
    Thanks guys, a spout it is then......I was going to do one but it was a stinker of a day here today and I confess that I got a bit lazy by the time I got this far.......
    Larks

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  14. #2359
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I've done some smaller lead casting into steel moulds, and zinc casting into a plaster of Paris mould (only about 500g).
    Spout good.
    Mine is a 6kg gas bottle sitting inside a 9kg over the burner to keep the heat in.
    I alway heat the plaster mould up in the oven for 30 minutes or so to drive any moisture that may be in it out, and to stop some of the heat shock.
    It's not exploded or cracked so far, so either that worked or was not necessary. Yours is a a lot bigger, so maybe put a burner inside it for a while just in case.
    There is plenty going on getting everything else ready.
    I would also not put all that lead in at once, so you get a pool of molten to help transfer the heat to each piece as it is added.
    I hope I'm not writing stuff you already know.
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  15. #2360
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Nice rig Larks.

    Totally no experience at this, but I wonder will it be a bit splashy?
    Its one of 'those' solutions that's easy to write - but what about a pipe/tube fixed in below the top edge, that is bent downwards. Like an upside down teapot spout. Say 120mm at 45degrees.

    Problem would be as the pot empties and the angle gets shallower, the spout would aim backwards....
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  16. #2361
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Nice rig Larks.

    Totally no experience at this, but I wonder will it be a bit splashy?
    Its one of 'those' solutions that's easy to write - but what about a pipe/tube fixed in below the top edge, that is bent downwards. Like an upside down teapot spout. Say 120mm at 45degrees.

    Problem would be as the pot empties and the angle gets shallower, the spout would aim backwards....
    Yes, I’ve been thinking about the splash - there shouldn’t be much as it’s reasonably close and I can control it well enough but I reckon I’ll make up a sort of a small plate sized splash shield on a stick that I can get one of my mates to hold over the pour area and move as needed, rather than complicate the container any more.
    Larks

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  17. #2362
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacko View Post
    I've done some smaller lead casting into steel moulds, and zinc casting into a plaster of Paris mould (only about 500g).
    Spout good.
    Mine is a 6kg gas bottle sitting inside a 9kg over the burner to keep the heat in.
    I alway heat the plaster mould up in the oven for 30 minutes or so to drive any moisture that may be in it out, and to stop some of the heat shock.
    It's not exploded or cracked so far, so either that worked or was not necessary. Yours is a a lot bigger, so maybe put a burner inside it for a while just in case.
    There is plenty going on getting everything else ready.
    I would also not put all that lead in at once, so you get a pool of molten to help transfer the heat to each piece as it is added.
    I hope I'm not writing stuff you already know.
    I love doing this and get a sense of satisfaction even though my efforts are agricultural.
    Definitely not writing stuff that I already know - I’ve never done this before so am just going on what I’ve seen others do. Thanks for the advice re heating the mould, I can do that easy enough with another burner and gas bottle.

    Although I’ve just loaded all the lead today to check the rig against the weight, I had kinda thought I could indeed leave it all in at once rather than having to try and feed the heavy ingots in safely.....somehow.... without cutting them down.

    But I’ll take your advice and will come up with a means of feeding them in one at a time, or half at a time.
    Larks

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  18. #2363
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Yes, I’ve been thinking about the splash - there shouldn’t be much as it’s reasonably close and I can control it well enough but I reckon I’ll make up a sort of a small plate sized splash shield on a stick that I can get one of my mates to hold over the pour area and move as needed, rather than complicate the container any more.
    yes I was thinking about the splash and thought you could make a sorta guide piece of flat bar with an insulated handle to pour the stream against so it doesn’t hit the perpendicular bottom of mould, sorta like when you pee down the wall, rather than straight at it, of a urinal. If you’ll excuse the crude analogy.

  19. #2364
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I managed to get my small ballast keel extension poured today without any significant problems. A second pair of hands would have been “handy” to run a burner for me while I poured and, although I checked the pot before pouring, I still found a small lump of unmelted lead in the bottom so I didn’t get the whole lot poured in one hit - which was a nuisance.

    I did end up with the lead at the depth that I really needed but I had extended the mould depth by 15mm so that I could lay in a little extra to help with shaping. So although I may end up shaving most of it off anyway, I ended up doing a second pour over the top by melting the remaining lead, cleaning up and heating the top of the already poured lead with a torch and pouring that last bit over the top. It looks good but we’ll see what sort of bond the second pour has had when I remove it from the mould - I don’t have any particularly high expectations but in reality it doesn’t really matter as most may be shaved off and what is left will end up sandwiched firmly when the lot is bolted to the hull.

    It should be roughly 105 kg (231lb) - less what rubbish I skimmed off....

    [IMG]IMG_3204 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]



    [IMG]IMG_3205 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]



    while waiting for the lead to melt I went to work on this beautiful slab of scented rosewood - 3 metres x @900mm x 43mm. One of my mates who is building a Catspaw dinghy up here at the moment gifted it to me to become my cabin top frames.

    It seemed absolutely criminal to cut it up but cut it up I did - enough to get it through the 300mm thicknesses for the moment:

    [IMG]IMG_3206 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_3214 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]


    I welded a few “dots” as 2 litre markers at the rear of the pot so that I could an eye on where I was at. I’d calculated that I needed a minimum of 9.5 litres of lead to get to my original mould height - ie without having anything to shave off:

    [IMG]IMG_3211 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Just under the 10 litre mark before skimming off the crud:

    [IMG]IMG_3212 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]
    Last edited by Larks; 03-14-2022 at 05:35 PM.
    Larks

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  20. #2365
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    First pour, no splashes, no dramas:

    [IMG]IMG_3215 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_3217 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    except for this still in the pot:

    [IMG]IMG_3216 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]


    end result - I’ll let it cool overnight before tipping it out:

    [IMG]IMG_3218 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]
    Larks

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  21. #2366
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    Default

    That's another major milestone all but completed. Well done Greg.


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  22. #2367
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I like your pouring setup, Greg. I'm hoping that rosewood will be bright finished? That's gorgeous!

  23. #2368
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by brucemoffatt View Post
    That's another major milestone all but completed. Well done Greg.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thanks Bruce, cheers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    I like your pouring setup, Greg. I'm hoping that rosewood will be bright finished? That's gorgeous!
    That’s the plan Hugh, it’ll contrast with the Huon pine cabin sides but I’m hoping it'll look right by carrying up the colour of the mahogany and cedar cabinetry.
    Larks

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  24. #2369
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Can't wait to see it out...

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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Can't wait to see it out...
    wait no longer JB:

    ‘Happy with the result - you can see the line of the second pour but it’s solidly bonded. A couple of blemishes and air pockets that need filling but otherwise as good as I could have hoped. It came out at 101kg / 222lb::

    [IMG]IMG_3219 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_3220 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_3221 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]


    [IMG]IMG_3225 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    and for anyone who may have an interest in how the plaster mould went - it held up surprisingly well with only a few pieces of the extended height coming away when I tipped the lead out:

    [IMG]IMG_3222 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]
    Last edited by Larks; 03-14-2022 at 08:24 PM.
    Larks

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  26. #2371
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild


  27. #2372
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    The appropriate word would be..
    Cool.

  28. #2373
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I would call that a very successful pour. Outside looks like it needs none or very little work. Well done.


    Mal
    Last edited by Quest; 03-22-2022 at 09:04 PM.
    Quest

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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Nice one Greg. That should alter the trim a little...in a good way.
    Last edited by Mike1902; 03-14-2022 at 09:41 PM.
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1902 View Post
    Nice one Greg. That should alter the trim a little...in a good way.
    Thanks Mike, that’s the intention. She had about 60kg of lead ingots under the fw’d berth when I got her but it looked to me like she had always been low in the stern when compared to the drawings so my aim (hope?) is to get her back to her designed trim. I expect that she will also benefit from some extra anchor chain in the fw’d chain locker.
    Larks

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  31. #2376
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Nice work Greg!! .........and that rosewood is great timber! I bought some slabs of Queensland rosewood back with me from a road trip to NSW in the 70's and they are still in my little wood stack in a chook shed at a mates place!
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  32. #2377
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    71,370

    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I am enjoying your build thread Greg, anything like it is way beyond me now.

  33. #2378
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wongawallan Oz
    Posts
    17,028

    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    Nice work Greg!! .........and that rosewood is great timber! I bought some slabs of Queensland rosewood back with me from a road trip to NSW in the 70's and they are still in my little wood stack in a chook shed at a mates place!
    Thanks mate - and I’ll look forward to seeing what you do with your rosewood. I’m hoping to get a big enough stash of it shortly to build four quite large bookcases and base cabinets to fit out a library......fingers crossed...

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I am enjoying your build thread Greg, anything like it is way beyond me now.
    Thanks Jeff, ‘hope you’re well down there mate.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  34. #2379
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    71,370

    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Good as gold on our own little patch Greg, no covid, but it's dry. less than 100mm in 4 months, but it's drizzling at present and the bureau promises more overnight. Been a reasonable sailing season, apart from a preponderance of easterlies in an east/west estuary wuth a big tide flow...

  35. #2380
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Between Bourgeoisie and Proletariat - Australia
    Posts
    7,184

    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I watched the video of the pour, very smooth work Greg - really impressively under control.
    Now, a 100kg beast to man handle. Mind yer back!
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

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