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Thread: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

  1. #2171
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Superb Greg..

  2. #2172
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Thanks Martin - what’s the latest on Kate? I can’t recall seeing any news on her lately....or have I missed it?
    Larks

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  3. #2173
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    brightwork looks beautiful.

  4. #2174
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    [QUOTE=Larks;6483171]



    [IMG]IMG_2320 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_2321 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]


    These two have really shown the worth of taking your time Greg. Beautiful.

    Mal
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  5. #2175
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Greg, what’s the headroom in a H28?

  6. #2176
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Thanks Willin' and thanks Mal.

    Andrew, ‘depends on the H28 and whether it's as designed where there isn’t any headroom or if it has a stepped cabin top. This one had about 6’2” of headroom aft when I bought it but it looked like a block of flats and was particularly ugly, though the original owner was 6’2 so it suited him. I’ll be rebuilding the coachroof to pretty much as designed which takes it down to something like 5’3” (without checking the drawings), so from this:



    to (hopefully) something more like this - without the mizzen:

    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
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    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  7. #2177
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Significant improvement! I'm looking at this month's Wooden Boat Calendar and if you wanted a bit more headroom you could crown the coachtop like Nielsen's "Lucy". Might not look too bad

  8. #2178
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Thanks Hugh - the risk with departing so far from the design is that there’s so much work involved doing it without knowing how it will look until it’s finished. I will rebuild the cabin top "close" to the design - ie using the same “principles” and lines - but it will still extend forward of the mast using the original deck frame configuration and I will included a slightly larger cockpit hatch opening as well as a butterfly hatch just aft of the mast so that I have both headspace just above the galley as well as somewhere further forward to stand up to put my shirt on.....

    I am still a little dubious about how it will look when completed with the extended cabin area but I have absolutely no doubt that it will look 100% better than it did.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
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  9. #2179
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    The improvement thus far exceeds 100% significantly

  10. #2180
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    The improvement thus far exceeds 100% significantly
    Thanks mate, cheers
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
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  11. #2181
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    There should laws about cabins like that. Is your mast further fwd or aft? Maybe you could photoshop a pic to get an idea of how it’ll look. That boat’s all about gentle sweeping curves and I’ve no doubt you’ll do it justice

  12. #2182
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    to (hopefully) something more like this - without the mizzen:

    pretty boat Holiday, spending this summer in Mattapoisett Massachusetts. On the other hand, my 5'-5" wife says it would be nice to stand up (I should measure the actual headroom).


    H- Foggy Morning.jpg
    Last edited by SalsDad; 07-14-2021 at 05:51 AM.

  13. #2183
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by SalsDad View Post
    pretty boat Holiday, spending this summer in Mattapoisett Massachusetts. On the other hand, my 5'-5" wife says it would be nice to stand up (I should measure the actual headroom).
    Pretty? I’d go with “gorgeous”. Your Holiday and Jay’s Bright Star have always been my inspiration for this rebuild.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  14. #2184
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Donald View Post
    There should laws about cabins like that. Is your mast further fwd or aft? Maybe you could photoshop a pic to get an idea of how it’ll look. That boat’s all about gentle sweeping curves and I’ve no doubt you’ll do it justice
    My mast is located for a sloop rig and so is slightly further aft than on Holiday’s ketch rig arrangement. I don’t know the history but a dodgy extension of the mast step (it is a deck stepped mast with a compression post) suggests that it was originally built with the mast located as in the ketch drawings but moved aft later on when they realised that they couldn’t balance the rig that way without the mizzen...

    I have the original Herreshoff plans for both the ketch and sloop rig so I can kinda see that they got a hold of the sloop plans sometime after building the boat to the original plan (sans mizzen) and realised their mistake.......perhaps......

    This was how I found it when I bought it:





    This is the replacement step and compression post arrangement



    I don’t believe that it ever had a mizzen but this old photo shows that the cabin top was raised and possibly extended at some stage - hard to really say but it looks like the mast was forward of the cabin in this pic.

    [IMG]Aground in Sandy Straight by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]
    Last edited by Larks; 07-14-2021 at 04:45 PM.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  15. #2185
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Thanks Martin - what’s the latest on Kate? I can’t recall seeing any news on her lately....or have I missed it?
    No movement I'm sorry to say...covid, work etc. I'm not in the UK much these days, but will get back to her soon. Not much left to do har har

  16. #2186
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    My mast is located for a sloop rig and so is slightly further aft than on Holiday’s ketch rig arrangement. I don’t know the history but a dodgy extension of the mast step (it is a deck stepped mast with a compression post) suggests that it was originally built with the mast located as in the ketch drawings but moved aft later on when they realised that they couldn’t balance the rig that way without the mizzen...

    I have the original Herreshoff plans for both the ketch and sloop rig so I can kinda see that they got a hold of the sloop plans sometime after building the boat to the original plan (sans mizzen) and realised their mistake.......perhaps......

    This was how I found it when I bought it:





    This is the replacement step and compression post arrangement



    I don’t believe that it ever had a mizzen but this old photo shows that the cabin top was raised and possibly extended at some stage - hard to really say but it looks like the mast was forward of the cabin in this pic.

    [IMG]Aground in Sandy Straight by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]
    Greg, I don't know, maybe I'm a tad too much on the safe side, but I find it a bit strange that the maststep (or compression-post-step) is not supported sideways. Sure, the stays are meant to do this work in a way, we're not talking of a gigantic ship with huge forces involved and it clearly has worked like this for years, but still ... can there be anything found in the plans? I can see that you made the base of the new compression-post longer aft and I guess you're planning to bolt it to the floors, so this will for sure make a difference.

    Your new compression-post looks awesome, great job!!!
    fair winds, Dody
    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain
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  17. #2187
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I can understand your concern Dody and I shook my head at what I found when I was pulling it apart - it certainly doesn’t go back together that way.

    The new mast step itself is slotted into the floors (to varying extents depending on the floors) and is then bolted through the floors to the keel. It’s out of the boat at the moment because I dropped what was a wooden forefoot in front of the lead ballast keel and I will be recasting that in lead and eventually that also will be through-bolted to the mast step through the floors.....if that makes sense (it will make more sense to me when I actually go ahead and do it).

    The compression post is recessed into the mast step, those collars at the base are firmly epoxied down but are really more of a dressing around the recess where I bedded the compression post in epoxy to get a nice snug fit into the step. The compression post is then supported laterally at the top by the cabin and deck frames and I intend to beef up the previous arrangement by adding a couple of nicely finished knees from the deck to the cabin top either side of the mast step.

    IMG_9583.jpg
    Last edited by Larks; 09-18-2021 at 04:23 AM.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  18. #2188
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Really nice, Greg. I had been wondering if you were staying with the sloop rig or converting to the ketch.

  19. #2189
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    The aluminium mast, boom and rigging were reasonably new when I bought the boat Hugh, the previous owner had lost the Oregon mast in a Brisbane to Gladstone race, so my intention was always to stay with that rig. The value (to me) in the boat when I bought it was the Huon Pine hull, the relatively new rig and sails and the then quite reliable Volvo Penta engine - which I’ve sold for replacement with the Yanmar 3YM20.

    Which has me thinking - I’ve had the sails in storage now for about 15 years so I’m rather nervous about what state they will be in when I pull them out - I’d washed and dried them before sealing them in heavy duty yard bags so fingers and everything else crossed that they’ll be OK. I guess there’s no point worrying about them until it’s actually time to get them out and bend them on for a look......
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  20. #2190
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Nice! I'd think that as long as they were clean & dry when you stowed them they should be fine. Mylar might be problematic, but dacron seems to hold up as long as UV doesn't get to it. Thanks for sharing your efforts on this!

  21. #2191
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    I can understand your concern Cody and I shook my head at what I found when I was pulling it apart - it certainly doesn’t go back together that way.

    The new mast step itself is slotted into the floors (to varying extents depending on the floors) and is then bolted through the floors to the keel. It’s out of the boat at the moment because I dropped what was a wooden forefoot in front of the lead ballast keel and I will be recasting that in lead and eventually that also will be through-bolted to the mast step through the floors.....if that makes sense (it will make more sense to me when I actually go ahead and do it).

    The compression post is recessed into the mast step, those collars at the base are firmly epoxied down but are really more of a dressing around the recess where I bedded the compression post in epoxy to get a nice snug fit into the step. The compression post is then supported laterally at the top by the cabin and deck frames and I intend to beef up the previous arrangement by adding a couple of nicely finished knees from the deck to the cabin top either side of the mast step.

    IMG_9583.jpg
    Yes, that looks sooo much better and you nicely distribute the forces to several floors/frames fore and aft, and any possible movement sideways is stopped by notching and bolting this beam into the frames/floors! Also the knees are a great contribution - you are bolting them to the deckbeam, aren't you?

    I don't quite get this with the wooden forefoot and re-casting it in lead. Re-casting it in lead you will put more weight forward. Does she need this weight to be better balanced? What was the original purpose of the wooden forefoot? Something to be easily replaced if one hits something without damaging the ballast-keel and everything involved? Was it that they found out she is too heavy forward, cut something off the ballast-keel and replaced with wood to keep the shape? Strange ... what did you find out about it?
    Last edited by Dody; 07-17-2021 at 05:29 PM.
    fair winds, Dody
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  22. #2192
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    There’s a bit of a longer story on the forefoot back on page 46 Dody, http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...rebuild/page46, but essentially the lead keel on my H28 wasn’t laid up as designed and, instead of the lead running all the way through to the forefoot as is shown in the drawings, mine had a wooden block shaped in front of the lead. To make up for the lost weight there were a handful of lead ingots and some extra chain stowed under the forward bunk at that time.

    I’m using the shaped wooden block as a mould and replacing it with the lead (plus a bit more) that was under the bunk and will lock it into the existing lead keel when I fit it in place (something similar to the sketch below, though likely with refinements as I think about it more when I get closer to doing it).







    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  23. #2193
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Just out of interest, My H28 which was a 1950 built ketch had some lead (50kg) in the bilge just behind the mast step.
    The previous owner did this when he upgraded the engine to a 20hp beta with stainless steel water and fuel tank under the cockpit seats.
    With the extra weight in the back of the boat (especially when the tanks where full) the boat would squat and sit transom down. The extra lead helped it keep in trim fore and aft.

  24. #2194
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Thanks for the drawing, plan and the picture Greg! I couldn't find the discussion on page 46, nor on 45, nor on 35 ... and it's quite some pages you've got together but it doesn't matter. Someone might have mentioned this before, however as they possibly did the mast-arrangement for the ketch-rig and changed their minds later in the building-process it is very well possible that they expected that there was too much weight forward without the mizzen, took the forefoot off and found out later that actually she still needs a tad more weight there. This is all hit and miss because your interior might distribute the weight differently, your engine might have more or less weight, you might install a water- or diesel-tank in a place where there was none before, you might have a longer anchor-chain, a heavier windlass and and and ... all this you can only really find out when she's back in her element. It's certainly not for me to say but I would be careful at this stage how and where to alter weight-distribution, although I can really understand your wish to have it all nice and tidy.

    Oh, and I'm so so so jealous about you having these nice plans with even the bolts marked out! I wish I had something, and if it's only a rough drawing of what is hidden ... as it is the only thing I can do is cut open and look what's there.
    fair winds, Dody
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  25. #2195
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    My lead comes forward as you've drawn - it gives a nice sense of security knowing there is a butch piece of metal to meet any unintentional encounters.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  26. #2196
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by James Chilman View Post
    Just out of interest, My H28 which was a 1950 built ketch had some lead (50kg) in the bilge just behind the mast step.
    The previous owner did this when he upgraded the engine to a 20hp beta with stainless steel water and fuel tank under the cockpit seats.
    With the extra weight in the back of the boat (especially when the tanks where full) the boat would squat and sit transom down. The extra lead helped it keep in trim fore and aft.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dody View Post
    Thanks for the drawing, plan and the picture Greg! I couldn't find the discussion on page 46, nor on 45, nor on 35 ... and it's quite some pages you've got together but it doesn't matter. Someone might have mentioned this before, however as they possibly did the mast-arrangement for the ketch-rig and changed their minds later in the building-process it is very well possible that they expected that there was too much weight forward without the mizzen, took the forefoot off and found out later that actually she still needs a tad more weight there. This is all hit and miss because your interior might distribute the weight differently, your engine might have more or less weight, you might install a water- or diesel-tank in a place where there was none before, you might have a longer anchor-chain, a heavier windlass and and and ... all this you can only really find out when she's back in her element. It's certainly not for me to say but I would be careful at this stage how and where to alter weight-distribution, although I can really understand your wish to have it all nice and tidy.

    Oh, and I'm so so so jealous about you having these nice plans with even the bolts marked out! I wish I had something, and if it's only a rough drawing of what is hidden ... as it is the only thing I can do is cut open and look what's there.
    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    My lead comes forward as you've drawn - it gives a nice sense of security knowing there is a butch piece of metal to meet any unintentional encounters.

    Yes, I hear what you are saying, though I’ve had some pretty reasonable experience with “weights off - weights on” management through my job in managing commercial marine refits but I confess that there will still be a bit of a finger in the air element to this refit.

    I’m replacing like for like with the fuel and water tanks, same locations same quantities, and the Yanmar 3YM20 engine is much the same weight as the Volvo Penta that came out of her. I will loose a wee bit of weight in the cabin structure aft but will also loose a similar amount removing the head from up forward. I will gain a tiny bit aft with the Lithium 200w house battery, loose a tiny bit there with a slightly smaller AGM start battery and will add a bit more lead in that forward ballast that I’m casting than was under the bunk. I’m also adding an electric windlass up forward and the mast compression post is heavier than the original one and I’m moving the head and holding tank for it aft.......(empty 99.99% of the time)....and so on.....

    Bottom line is that I’m very conscious of the weights off - weights on element of this rebuild, it doesn’t mean that I’ll get it absolutely correct but I don’t expect any unmanageable surprises when she’s relaunched..
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
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  27. #2197
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    After changing my engine over the last summer I am bow down about 50mm.
    Haumuri is so weight sensitive that when I put the new house batteries on the transom (52 Kg), the waterline was near enough to correct.
    Unfortunately the old ones were 65kg, so I had a net loss from the change of batteries.

  28. #2198
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    very conscious of the weights off - weights on element ... don’t expect any unmanageable surprises when she’s relaunched..
    Holiday is ballasted with cast iron rather than lead; the draft is extended to almost 4' as a result (wrapped in epoxy/glass years ago, so there is minimal chance for inspection). The first photo above shows she was a bit light in the bow, but nothing a big "emergency" folding anchor and a couple hundred feet of chain couldn't even out.

    One of these years, I need to re-scribe the boot-top, which is a bit wavy on the port side for my taste; see the second photo. Any pointers for getting this right?

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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    After major surgery, I went with the original waterline then adjusted the next time it came out of the water.
    I used a laser to get it straight, although you need to make it curve up at the bow about 40mm to make it "look right".

  30. #2200
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    I just checked the headroom in Holiday. To the bottom of the deck beams, it is 4-9 (145cm) at the companionway, down to 4-6 (137cm) forward. Makes for pretty lines, but cramped when you have to spend a rainy day at anchor!

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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by SalsDad View Post

    One of these years, I need to re-scribe the boot-top, which is a bit wavy on the port side for my taste; see the second photo. Any pointers for getting this right?
    I managed a slipway years ago in Darwin and once watched a guy pour food colouring in the water all around his waterline just before we slipped the boat. He’d previously based the waterline on the scum mark around the hull but ended up with one side higher than the other because of the prevailing wind in his berth. It seemed to work well enough for him to mark the waterline with a scribe before pressure washing the hull.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  32. #2202
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    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    One of the more frustrating jobs that I’ve done - shoehorning the black water system into place, it’s a tight fit..... The job included plugging up four holes in the hull with Huon pine plugs and backing blocks and replacing them with two holes of the right size where they were more useable (sea water flush feed and BW overboard).

    The set up allows for the toilet (electric with macerator pump) to be flushed directly overboard or into the holding tank and the holding tank has a second macerator pump to allow it to be pumped ashore to a waste station, rather than sucked, or pumped back overboard.

    Yet to be squeezed in are a fresh water flush line to the holding tank so that it can better cleaned every now and then, as well as the vent line. FW flush fitting is hidden behind the inlet and outlet lines in the tank cap and the vent line has a piece of green masking tape over it. I’m also yet to fit a few hose brackets to tidy a few of them up a bit and keep the where I want them.

    The nav' station desk sits over the lines against the hull on the right and the electrics board and switch panel sit in front of them, so you can be sure that I’ll be testing it all to make sure that there’s no leaks before I start fitting the rest of the nav' station furniture and the electrics next week:

    [IMG]IMG_2524 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]




    [IMG]IMG_2521 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
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    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  33. #2203
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Rushworth, Australia
    Posts
    996

    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    That diagram makes my head hurt 9(like electrical diagrams) thank god for buckets

    just realised the pun haha

  34. #2204
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    LPBC, SC USA
    Posts
    1,600

    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    One of the more frustrating jobs that I’ve done - shoehorning the black water system into place, it’s a tight fit..... The job included plugging up four holes in the hull with Huon pine plugs and backing blocks and replacing them with two holes of the right size where they were more useable (sea water flush feed and BW overboard).

    The set up allows for the toilet (electric with macerator pump) to be flushed directly overboard or into the holding tank and the holding tank has a second macerator pump to allow it to be pumped ashore to a waste station, rather than sucked, or pumped back overboard.

    Yet to be squeezed in are a fresh water flush line to the holding tank so that it can better cleaned every now and then, as well as the vent line. FW flush fitting is hidden behind the inlet and outlet lines in the tank cap and the vent line has a piece of green masking tape over it. I’m also yet to fit a few hose brackets to tidy a few of them up a bit and keep the where I want them.

    The nav' station desk sits over the lines against the hull on the right and the electrics board and switch panel sit in front of them, so you can be sure that I’ll be testing it all to make sure that there’s no leaks before I start fitting the rest of the nav' station furniture and the electrics next week:

    [IMG]IMG_2524 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]




    [IMG]IMG_2521 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Thank you for this post. I may be rehabbing a fiberglassic sailboat soon and the head needs much attention. Having a way to discharge waste would be great without using a vacuum system. My other idea was a Nature's Head composting toilet. They're kind of pricey tho. A link for reference in case no one has seen them. Most people that have them like them.

    https://www.amazon.com/Natures-Head-...f_=as_li_ss_tl
    This sig line is proudly provided by The Wooden Boat Magazine Forum. If it ain't The Wooden Boat Mag, it just a rag.

  35. #2205
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wongawallan Oz
    Posts
    17,022

    Default Re: H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by ben2go View Post
    Thank you for this post. I may be rehabbing a fiberglassic sailboat soon and the head needs much attention. Having a way to discharge waste would be great without using a vacuum system. My other idea was a Nature's Head composting toilet. They're kind of pricey tho. A link for reference in case no one has seen them. Most people that have them like them.

    https://www.amazon.com/Natures-Head-...f_=as_li_ss_tl
    I did look at the Natures Head units but they were just a bit too big for my space and set up.

    If my set up interests you, a more simple option for the overboard discharge from the holding tank (than having a diversion valve to the deck discharge point or back to the through hull discharge) would be to just trail a short 1” hose from the deck discharge and pump out through that.

    I did consider it and in hindsight probably could/should have gone with that option given the difficulties that I had fitting the diversion valve in place, but I baulked at the inconvenience of having to store a length of hose that might have been difficult to get completely clean at sea after pumping black water waste out through it.

    The overboard discharge point has a cam lock fitting that screws into it that any shore waste station should fit.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

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