H28 "Larrikin" rebuild

[Larks]

Very nice looking piece of work! Keep doing stuff like that Greg and you'll paint youirself right into a snug corner which will not allow you to build anything else below that standard. Will you be putting anything like beeswax, into the lower pocket, to handle any weeping?



Cheers!


Peter

If I don't start putting cash into my lower pocket soon there will be plenty of weeping Peter........


other than that though, which lower pocket do you mean???

[P.L.Lenihan]

I was referring to the lower end of your compression post,which appears to sit in a nice "pocket".

Perhaps I should get my favorite witch to cast a spell and send it out your way to bolster your opportunities toward securing a steady flow of ready into your lower pocket(s) ! Best of luck on that front, magic spells notwithstanding!





Cheers!


Peter

[Larks]

I was referring to the lower end of your compression post,which appears to sit in a nice "pocket".

Perhaps I should get my favorite witch to cast a spell and send it out your way to bolster your opportunities toward securing a steady flow of ready into your lower pocket(s) ! Best of luck on that front, magic spells notwithstanding!





Cheers!


Peter

Thanks Peter, yes please re the favourite witch and her spell!!! I need all the help that I can get at the moment.

I originally wrapped the base of the compression post in plastic (so that it was easily removable) and temporarily bedded it into the slot in the step in epoxy to get a nice snug flat base before drilling out the holes in it for bolting the step to the floor below the mast and for bolting the mast to the step. But I confess that I'll also end up sealing the top of the slotbetween the post and the step with a very thin strip of brown silicon to dress the join.

[Larks]

I minor update, ( or just an unabashed bump really as the thread was dissapearing off my own "subscribed threads" page). The bilge has its final two topcoats of paint, after 2 coats of white "triple prep" over the read lead, mast step is bolted down and I'm just playing with some plugs to cover the bolt holes in the step:






Yes that is a twist in the forward end of the step that you see (closest to the camera above) and no, I'm not going to do anything more about it, other than what I've now done to the underside of it to seat it into/onto the floors solidly.

Despite this lump of wood having sat on a rack in the shed of a local boat builder for 10 years or more and then in mine for 2 years before being squared and sanded and shaped by me when I made the step many months ago, it has managed to assume a new shape while wrapped up in an old bed cover and stowed under my bench. Call me a lazy bastard but with the amount of work that went into making it and getting the mast step area and the slots for the floors just right I'm not about to pull it all apart and resquare it when it now sits firmly on all floors and the forward 70% of it will never be seen again under the forward bunks.

I've found that at some point you have to just say "that's enough, it works!" and move onto the next project.......rightly or wrongly!

It's bolted through three floors and into the keel timbers. The mast will also be bolted down through the step with the nuts being screwed up frim under either side of the floor below the mast:



The are the plugs that I've made up to cover the fwd bolt/nut holes. I'm not entirely happy with them so may make some more but was just experimenting at this stage. They are just cut with hole saws, first cutting part way through the back side with a smaller hole saw to match the bolt hole size and then cut right through from the other side using a large enough saw to spread over the hole.

The hole from the hole saw drill bit is then just plugged with a piece cut using my new plug cutter sets.

These ones are rosewood and Queen Ebony, not yet properly sanded or oiled but just dropped in to have a look at them. I've not decided which to use yet and I may try another out of huon pine. They'll be covered over anyway by the bunk, but I want to block the holes up to keep rubbish and water out of them, I'll bed these in gently in a thin bed of sika/fixtech so that they are semi waterproof but can be eased out if need be down the track (ie not jam in so much sika that they're a nuisance to get out..)

[PeterSibley]

Mate that is the prettiest mast step I've ever seen! You are setting a high bar Greg !

I haven't used it but there is a compound available in tubes from the local autoparts shop for repairing / bedding windscreens . It doesn't harden ,just remains tacky with a faint skin. It might be worth a look.

[Larks]

Mate that is the prettiest mast step I've ever seen! You are setting a high bar Greg !

I haven't used it but there is a compound available in tubes from the local autoparts shop for repairing / bedding windscreens . It doesn't harden ,just remains tacky with a faint skin. It might be worth a look.

Thanks Peter. I'll have a look at SupaCheap, I reckon I know the stuff and it'd probably be available in a reasonably small tube.

[RFNK]

You could always use blu-tac

Rick

[snow(Alan H)]

You could always use blu-tac

Rick

Known as 'smurf snot' when I was a lad

[m2c1Iw]

Looks terrific Greg but I can't help think you are being overly concerned for the frustration levels of the next caretaker. FWIW I'd just dab some shellac/varnish to hold em in place, you're not planing any inverted self righting tests are you?

[Larks]

Looks terrific Greg but I can't help think you are being overly concerned for the frustration levels of the next caretaker. FWIW I'd just dab some shellac/varnish to hold em in place, you're not planing any inverted self righting tests are you?

Thanks Mike. I do tend to approach things in the hope that the next bloke/lass might be blessing me rather than cursing me (as I have done once or twice with some of the jobs that I've uncovered). But a small dob of sika to seal the bungs in easy enough to do and probably actually easier even than shellac or varnish for that matter. Not something worth overthinking anyway.

[PeterSibley]

Can you ever get the Sika out ? It's a strong as Fixtec.

[AlanL]

Known as 'smurf snot' when I was a lad

Ahem. Smurfs were not around when you were lad :P

[RFNK]

Known as 'smurf snot' when I was a lad

We know you grew up rough

Rick

[Larks]

In the juggle to start fitting out with the first thing first in an order where I don't have to go back and rework something because it gets in the road of something else later on, I've started with the cabin sole, (I plan to work pretty much from the anchor locker/chain shelf back until I get to around about the galley area then leave that and work from the laz' fwd' to do the galley and nav' areas last.)

I already had a temporary 12mm ply sole down as a base to work on so I used that as a sort of jigger board to mark off the hull frames/ribs, their angles and positions in relation to the edge of the ply sheet, as well as measurements for the mast step and the higher fwd' and aft floors.



Although this scribble may look a mess it does represent something to me, I just had to make sure that I didn't leave it so long that I'd forget what it represented:



All the marks and measurements transferred onto a couple of 7mm sheets of MDF, some nails tapped into the marks that represent the inside corners of the hull frames/ribs and a 10mm length of quad curved around the outside of the nails to mark what will be the outer edge of the cabin sole.



All of that cut out with a fine tooth, antique, horsehair tensioned Scottish bowsaw under candlelight in the middle of a blizzard before notching out the rib slots with my teeth....

Trial fitted and minor adjustments made so that it sat nice and evenly



Before transferring the accurate template to the teak and holly sheet that I'd labouriously laminated from strips that I'd cut by hand from stock recycled from the wreck of the HMS Endeavour, hand sanded with the callouses of my bare hands down to a smooth and perfectly consistent 8mm.




Although 12mm might be considered more suitable for a cabin sole, I decided on 8mm so that I could maximise available head height.

So here is the first section in place. The fw'd edge is where the aft and of the fw'd bunk will sit, I've stopped it here so that the bunk frame/face will sit down onto the floor rather than onto the cabin sole. I'll continue the sole forward onto the next sets of floors as well to form a base for storage under the bunk.

[johnno]

Now don't that look sweet! I'm amazed by the tools you have to hand, and the salvaging work you've done to come by these rare and precious materials, but the persistence, the sly trading, and the under-counter deals have paid off handsomely. I'm truly floored!

[m2c1Iw]

I'm solely tempted to call you a story teller.

[Larks]

Another view. Although I've notched the sole around the frames/ribs, I've not taken it right out to the hull side, leaving a gap of about 80mm all around to allow circulation.




Meanwhile, I'd been hunting through my coin collection to find something suitable to plonk under my mast (or in this case, my compression post). I came up with what I thought would be reasonably suitable, a 1967 50c piece with an immage of the "Endeavour" on it. Although I would have been only six at the time, I didn't think we had 50c pieces with the Endeavour until quite a bit later..........





But a peak underneath revealed the horror of my mistake:



So the search is on for an alternative. I have both a shilling and a half penny from 1961, my own year of birth, but that doesn't feel like a proper fit, however I believe from my drawings that LFH drew up H28 in 1943 and I do have a 1943 penny, so failing finding something from 1967 in the meantime, the 1943 penny may find itself in residence under "Larrikin's" compression post.

[Larks]

Now don't that look sweet! I'm amazed by the tools you have to hand, and the salvaging work you've done to come by these rare and precious materials, but the persistence, the sly trading, and the under-counter deals have paid off handsomely. I'm truly floored!

All in the interests of authenticity John, I dare not take something so hideous as veneered ply or so noisome as an electric jig-saw to a precious job like this!!

[WX]

That looks sweet Greg, nice job. 1967 was the year I left school with the firm view that the education system at the time was not meant for me.

[RFNK]

Just grind her off Greg and the coin will look just right. The sole looks great but I'd have used the Hebridean bowsaw.

Rick

[PeterSibley]

A lovely job Greg and the wee gap around the edge is just the right size to allow sundry screwdrivers and small furry animals to enter and in one case come and go.

Very flash ! .... yes, flash is the word !

[Jay Greer]

Greg, no matter what coin you use under your compression post be sure to use one that is struck in copper. I have seen silver coins used that promoted some amazing amounts of electrolysis resulting in damage to both wood and metal components.
Cheers,
Jay

[Larks]

Greg, no matter what coin you use under your compression post be sure to use one that is struck in copper. I have seen silver coins used that promoted some amazing amounts of electrolysis resulting in damage to both wood and metal components.
Cheers,
Jay

I hadn't thought of that Jay, thanks for the advice. I think I'll go with the 1943 Penny in commemoration of her design then.

[PeterSibley]

Copper salts are good, silver are strange ...

[WX]

I hadn't given much thought to putting a coin under the mast step. Maybe I should see what I have.

[Larks]

I hadn't given much thought to putting a coin under the mast step. Maybe I should see what I have.

Mines because I'm changing her name Gary, I'm not sure what the protocol is for a new build. BTW, do you have a name for yours?

A lovely job Greg and the wee gap around the edge is just the right size to allow sundry screwdrivers and small furry animals to enter and in one case come and go.

Very flash ! .... yes, flash is the word !

Sorry Peter, I forgot to reply to yours. There will be bunks and cabinets around the edges with backs to them all the way up to their top edges and beyond....a bit, so anything that falls or crawls down there will have to do so with a bit of gymnastics involved. The idea is to try and promote circulation right from the bottom of the bilge around to cabin top

[PeterSibley]

The ventilation versus screwdriver and animal ingress is a bit of a toss up, if animals can't get there air may have trouble too.

[Larks]

I don't really think there's that much of a problem or toss up Peter. This rough sketch may make it a bit clearer, the back of the bunks and cupboards are lined down to meet the cabin sole, air can move from between the floors in the bilge freely behind that lining, between the frames/ribs and out the top behind the bunks. If rodents really are a concern, adding a bit of mesh or grill between the hull frames/ribs and the hull and bunk lining will keep most critters out.

I've had to deal with a rat on a 57' yacht in Djibouti so I'm aware of the issues of what damage they can do and how hard they can be to find on a yacht of that size, the H28 is quite a different kettle of fish and the fitout much more simplified so unlikely to be such a problem:

[davidagage]

2 coins Greg!? one for the original launch year and one for the year you launch her...
Regarding your setee backs, I thought of maybe hinging them at the top so that they could e made into pilot berts if ever required.
Very nice sole (soul) by the way

[Larks]

2 coins Greg!? one for the original launch year and one for the year you launch her...
Regarding your setee backs, I thought of maybe hinging them at the top so that they could e made into pilot berts if ever required.
Very nice sole (soul) by the way

Thanks David, I may well hinge the backs up, though there wouldn't be enough height to make a berth out of them. It'd be more to provide a bit more shoulder room up to the hull sides and a storage shelf for kit when sleeping on the settees

[Larks]

Time to teach myself how to make some raised paneling for my bulkheads, with my thanks to those who responded to my thread on them for their advice and instruction:

I decided to first try one of the two methods of shaping the panels on my table saw and chose the "slide the panel accross the lowered blade for a slightly curved" method first (as opposed to the "cutting a flat shape with an angled blade" method).

So for those who may be interested, here's how it went:

Set up a fence to guide the piece along the blade. This length of timber isn't really stiff enough but for the purpose of my test piece it did the job, I'll use a heavier, more solid piece of DF when I do the real thing:



I set the blade height where it simply looked right for the exercise, however when I get some ogee router bits for the styles I'll take more care to set the height so that the thickness of the edge of the piece properly matches the slot that router bit cuts:



I didn't have a spare hand to take a shot of the process of cutting the shape, but essentially I simply slid the piece over the top of the blade from left to right, taking it in three or four passes to chew the shape away bit by bit. The first few passes were just freehand, ie I didn't bother moving the fence, working from about an inch away from the fence and getting progressively closer so that the last pass really didn't have much meat to remove other than squaring the whole shape up to the fence.

This shows the finished shape, however the closest edge was as a result of making the last pass a little too quickly and not doing a nice slow pass back again. It mostly sanded back OK, but I'll remember to be more patient and cautious with that last pass against the fence:



I made up a sled to give me a nice square face for a final pass to square the inside edge off, (I'll be able to use this same sled when (if) I try the alternative shaping method of running the piece through vertically with an angled blade).

I set the blade to just take a flees' dick off the inside edge of the curve, this also cleared away a few chips from the veneer face of the panel:



Another shot of the sled:



And the result after that final pass:

[Larks]

I cut up a few Tassie Oak floorboard offcuts to make some styles for the mockup, though without the ogee bits I used the table saw to cut the slots for the panel to fit. No science involved, just lined the panel up to the fence and set it weher it looked riight, ran all of the styles through once, moved the fence a bit and ran them through again, checked the fit, moved the fence a pufteenth more and ran them through one last time and they were ideal:



Whacked the whole lot together:




Glued it up and just shoved one screw through each end to hold it together (this is not how I'll do the final ones but it suited the job for the mockup:




Then painted it with the most awful paint that I've ever used (but which I want to get rid of) Dulux Aquanamel. Don't ever buy this paint, it is absolute rubbish!!!

But, for the sake of the mockup, it showed me that the edge of the ply, when shaped like this and given a half decent sanding, is indeed just fine for my bulkhead panels!!



And, ignoring the back of the floor boards, here's the back of it:

[Larks]

Now all I have to do is come up with the same concept on a more "interesting" shape, the bulkhead behind the anchor locker:



This pic isn't particularly clear, but here's a sketch of the panel layout that I think will work (or that I think is worth a try anyway):

[WX]

Mines because I'm changing her name Gary, I'm not sure what the protocol is for a new build. BTW, do you have a name for yours?

Redwing...of course.

[PeterSibley]

That panel is pretty good Greg, how much sanding did it need before painting ? I reckon I might try one too, just for the fun of it but in solid wood instead of ply.

[Larks]

Redwing...of course.

Doh!! For some reason I'd been thinking that was the design......as in Hartley Redwing....(slaps forehead!!)

[Larks]

That panel is pretty good Greg, how much sanding did it need before painting ? I reckon I might try one too, just for the fun of it but in solid wood instead of ply.

Not much sanding at all Peter, mostly to get rid of those ridges from the side where I pulled the saw through too quickly. Though I reckon I'll be a bit more careful with the shaping but it will still need some sanding. It actually looked smoother before the paint, the Aquanamel is impossible to get a decent finish on.

I'd prefer to use solid wood too, but I have such a good supply of decent ply that I'd like to use it. I tried it out after some positive comments on the other thread (about raised panels), there were a few negative comments about ply for this sort of job but I think it depends on the ply (and possibly on whether the comments were based on experience with it or just on conjecture).

[WX]

Doh!! For some reason I'd been thinking that was the design......as in Hartley Redwing....(slaps forehead!!)

Na, it's a Hartley Spindrift 24, originally called a Powersailer.

[chas]

Speakin' of fleas, there's none sticking to you, Greg. You've picked up on the panel-making pretty quick. Remember that epoxy is your friend on the ply panel edges.

I use high-build primers over painted millwork but that's because I'm rough with the sandpaper. Not so good with the crisp lines; roundovers are my friend. Lookin' good so far. / Jim

[Larks]

Thanks Chas, I've had good instructors. And thanks for the tip re the epoxy

[RFNK]

I reckon your panel cutting technique and your proposed forward bulkhead layout all look great. I was also going to suggest saturating those ply edges with resin. I'd sand them smooth, saturate with resin, then sand again once the resin has cured, then paint after assembly. My view would be that plywood is the perfect choice for bulkheads.

Rick

[shade of knucklehead]

You might find that cutting panels in that manner is a bit easier if you angle the piece to the blade. I also normally cut with the work on the other side of the blade. That way the blade doesn't constantly push against the work. I make cuts like that all the time at work. The biggest problem I have is the dust, its a really dirty way to cut wood.

[Larks]

You might find that cutting panels in that manner is a bit easier if you angle the piece to the blade. I also normally cut with the work on the other side of the blade. That way the blade doesn't constantly push against the work. I make cuts like that all the time at work. The biggest problem I have is the dust, its a really dirty way to cut wood.

I debated which side to use when I was setting the fence up but figured this would be the cleanest way of doing it dust wise. However I didn't try the other way so will give that a go as well, thanks for the advice.

I'm also planning on building a router table with a fence that includes a dust extractor port behind recess for the router bit (as in post #12 in the homemade router table thread http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ables-Any-pics ) so perhaps that may be the solution to the dust problem if I do it that way.

[RFNK]

Do you have a jointer Greg?
Rick

[Larks]

I reckon your panel cutting technique and your proposed forward bulkhead layout all look great. I was also going to suggest saturating those ply edges with resin. I'd sand them smooth, saturate with resin, then sand again once the resin has cured, then paint after assembly. My view would be that plywood is the perfect choice for bulkheads.

Rick

Thanks Rick. Unfortunately I don't have a jointer (other than a biscuit jointer), do you think it would work for cutting the profiles?

[WX]

I really like the way you cut the bevels Greg, I would not have thought of that.

[chas]

"However I didn't try the other way so will give that a go as well, thanks for the advice."

If you go that route, Greg, change your modus operandi. You cannot freehand your way with multiple passes into the fence. Each pass needs to be backed, which means you raise the blade each time you make a cut. Much more time consuming. And dangerous if you're not jigged up correctly! If you use a ply that has excessive tearout with your current method, put a knife to the face veneer at the finish cut line first and cut to that. good luck, don't put out a window, LOL. / Jim

[JoshuaIII]

I never really liked the idea of a coin under the mast step (Sorry for the romanticism!)

The coin will absorb all the weight and tension of the mast until either the mast step or the mast give up and let the coin smash enough wood to be totally in it.

It's kind of doing a really bad fit, and just hoping that pushing hard enough with the rig it will disappear.
A small sheet of copper which will help to keep rot away which I can understand...But for a pleasure of a coin... Why not carve the year of the refit in a deck beam, with a funny sentence and epoxy the coin into it At least you can see it without removing the mast!

Anyway just saying out loud... What happen with the work Greg you seems to have slow down a bit

[Bernadette]

coins under masts are traditional. silver dollars were also the tradition so far as im aware.
i sent to america to get a silver dollar for DECATUR.
anyhow, ive had coins under all my masts: 3 in total to date. cutting a small recess for the coin will avoid damage to the coin... (and you can just lay in with a tiny bit of sikaflex to stick it to the mast)...this has been proven when the masts were lifted out of the boats. i have never heard, nor would i expect to see electrolysis from a silver coin in a 'dry area' under a mast. ive placed very large silver coins and 'medals' under masts over many years (with previous yachts we had in the family, MINKE (now NORMA JEAN), CYGNUS and PROVIDENCE V. none have caused nor suffered any damage and to the best of my knowledge, the masts and the coins are all still intact.

if you want to wreck a mast do what some fellow did on a very well known and classic schooner on the east coast of queensland: tack an electrical wire up th elength of the mast. poor bloke he lost the top 8' or so of the mast due to rot. oooops!

[Larks]

"However I didn't try the other way so will give that a go as well, thanks for the advice."

If you go that route, Greg, change your modus operandi. You cannot freehand your way with multiple passes into the fence. Each pass needs to be backed, which means you raise the blade each time you make a cut. Much more time consuming. And dangerous if you're not jigged up correctly! If you use a ply that has excessive tearout with your current method, put a knife to the face veneer at the finish cut line first and cut to that. good luck, don't put out a window, LOL. / Jim

The freehand worked pretty well Chas, but I do agree with you, I'd rather have it a bit more controlled. My problem with raising the saw in increments is getting the final height exactly right each time. I've been thinking about ways to pack the fence out either side instead and I reckon if I make up two or three roughly 10mm thick spacers the length of the fence they'll do what I was doing freehand but a bit more steadily.

Stephane, I have a recess cut with a spade bit in the mast step ready to take the coin and I'll either bed it in epoxy or a bit of clear silicon, the compression post won't even know it's there.

As for the work on the boat, you are right but I've been doing a few bits and pieces that haven't been worth posting in preparation for bulkheads etc, time consuming fiddly bits such as getting the floors level with each other and making up templates for the bulkheads.

But I've also been quite distracted trying to find some real work to pay for all of this, so have been spending a lot of time on submissions, CV's, chasing up contacts and applications and so on, as well as trying to get as much work done on the house as I can while I can. The reality for us, unfortunately, is that we are having to prepare for the worst work wise and that means trying to get the house to a sellable stage. I built it about 5 years ago and whilst it is perfectly liveable and comfortable, there are a lot of little things that I never quite got around to once we moved in, such as the decorative wall paneling in one of the toilets, trim around the back of the kitchen bench, a few cupboards, some landscaping and so on.

I should add, there is every chance that the job I end up in will take me away from home for quite a while as well, so the work on the house has had to take priority.


The H28 is my sanity bank.