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Thread: James McMullen's Rowan, an Oughtred Snooty Tern

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Paul, as far as you, or anyone else, coming along on one of our trips, by all means, yes! Getcherself a sail 'n oar boat and come along!

    It's just like a RAID, except for we have no Trip Leaders, no set agenda, no chase boats, no entry fees, no formal structure and you get to cook yer own chow.

    The rules are simple:
    1. No motors. Tim don't wanna hear 'em. Chad don't wanna smell 'em. I don't wanna feel their wakes. If you need a motor aboard to feel safe, you've got the wrong boat and/or skill set. Sails, oars, paddles, yulohs, sweeps and such are where it's at, baby.

    2. Safety is up to you. You should be self-contained and self-reliant. More experienced folks are happy to encourage less experienced folks, but you're along as an independent contractor, not a passenger on a guided tour.

    3. Routes, schedules, timetables and itineraries are up to the fickle whims of Mighty Aeolus and the inexorable tidal currents of Mighty Rosario Strait. We'll go when and where we can, if we can, all prices subject to change without notice.

    4. No alcohol or drugs. . . .unless you bring enough to share with the rest of us. After sailing is done for the day, of course.

    So getcher boat and come on up to the lovely San Juan Islands, the very best part of the Salish Sea!

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Stelios, the four-strake "Tirrik" stretched to the length of a Rowan is already available. It's called the "Ness Yawl". See if Iain will do a trade-in for your plans, maybe.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    dang. . . i had hoped to go sailing with you sometime. . .

    i would've brought beer
    I hereby wish to hedge my statement completely ...

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Paul, as far as you, or anyone else, coming along on one of our trips, by all means, yes! Getcherself a sail 'n oar boat and come along!

    It's just like a RAID, except for we have no Trip Leaders, no set agenda, no chase boats, no entry fees, no formal structure and you get to cook yer own chow.

    The rules are simple:
    1. No motors. Tim don't wanna hear 'em. Chad don't wanna smell 'em. I don't wanna feel their wakes. If you need a motor aboard to feel safe, you've got the wrong boat and/or skill set. Sails, oars, paddles, yulohs, sweeps and such are where it's at, baby.

    2. Safety is up to you. You should be self-contained and self-reliant. More experienced folks are happy to encourage less experienced folks, but you're along as an independent contractor, not a passenger on a guided tour.

    3. Routes, schedules, timetables and itineraries are up to the fickle whims of Mighty Aeolus and the inexorable tidal currents of Mighty Rosario Strait. We'll go when and where we can, if we can, all prices subject to change without notice.

    4. No alcohol or drugs. . . .unless you bring enough to share with the rest of us. After sailing is done for the day, of course.

    So getcher boat and come on up to the lovely San Juan Islands, the very best part of the Salish Sea!
    Specific to I, Rowboat: No wrestling singlets either. Enough of that.
    Last edited by Yeadon; 02-22-2010 at 06:36 PM.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    I hereby wish to hedge my statement completely ...



    Specific to I, Rowboat: No wrestling singlets either. Enough of that.
    WTF? no rum, no smokes, no motor, no wimmin, no wrestling singlets...where's the fun?

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Peter, in order to build a sister to Rowan, first start out by ordering a set of "Arctic Tern" plans from I.O., and then I will be happy to provide you with the revised station spacings, proportional adjustments and tweaks from my lofting.
    That is a nice offer, James!

    We need a sister ship out here...on the East coast.

    Clint
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Quote Originally Posted by Clinton B Chase View Post
    We need a sister ship out here...on the East coast.
    I couldn't agree more! But where, oh where would we be able to find a boatbuilder who would do it? Preferably it would be someone who knows the glued lapstrake technique and likes both Scandanavian-derived double-enders and the lug cat-yawl rig. Do you happen to know anyone who might fit that description. . . . . .

    I would be delighted to help any, all or sundry who do think they might want to build a "Rowan" for themselves. I'm no hoarder. Share the wealth!

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Quote Originally Posted by darroch View Post
    WTF? no rum, no smokes, no motor, no wimmin, no wrestling singlets...where's the fun?

    Hey, I only specified no motors myself. The rest of that stuff is on yer own lookout, mate!

    Rule #4, the key clause: ". . . .unless you brought enough to share. . . ." There's no blanket prohibition intended or implied. Rum, whiskey, PEZ, psilocybin. . .just make sure you bring enough to share.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Hey, I only specified no motors myself. The rest of that stuff is on yer own lookout, mate!

    Rule #4, the key clause: ". . . .unless you brought enough to share. . . ." There's no blanket prohibition intended or implied. Rum, whiskey, PEZ, psilocybin. . .just make sure you bring enough to share.
    If you'd like to contribute one of those pretty little cradle boats to the endeavour, I'd be willing to fill it and tow it with refreshing cold beverages...or perhaps I should just build one myself...let's see, 18-foot boat...what length would look good...3 - 4 feet...enough to hold how many beer...turtleback top...unsinkable, of course...hmmm

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Chad don't wanna smell 'em.
    Goddammit, that's not my code name.

    Specific to I, Rowboat: No wrestling singlets either. Enough of that.

    What, you don't like red? I'm sorry if my comfort dissappoints you. But that's really not my problem.


    So... Who has room in their boat for the beer volcano? I'd stow it in Dragonfly, but the stripper factory is already chewing up some real estate up in the foc's'le.
    Last edited by I, Rowboat; 02-22-2010 at 11:08 PM.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Peter, in order to build a sister to Rowan, first start out by ordering a set of "Arctic Tern" plans from I.O., and then I will be happy to provide you with the revised station spacings, proportional adjustments and tweaks from my lofting.
    James , that is kind of you! I'm going to reread your comments above ,then I'll read them again .

    Paul ,I did Goggle ...I get a very nice link back to this page .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Thanks, James, for photographically pointing out that Rowan can be faster than the average Caledonia Yawl. That makes sense because Rowan is longer and skinnier than a CY so no big surprise there. Just curious, though, what was your crew that day? We both know that all boat designs are compromises. Rowan is a beautiful balance of speed under sail or oars and carrying ability but if she were asked to carry what the CY is capable of carrying, the race might have a different outcome. Yes? No? What do you think?

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Paul ,I did Goggle ...I get a very nice link back to this page .
    you didn't get links to these sites?

    http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/boatlists/ionames.htm

    http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/m.../designers.php

    http://www.mavc2002.com/#

    On that last link, the voyage of the Aegre is a must read.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Rowan, what a fabulous name derivation. About the boat itself, ah, it's all been said.
    Eric

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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Hvalsoe 9000 ain't bad either.
    Last edited by Yeadon; 02-23-2010 at 11:10 AM.

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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Kenjamin, I would say "to each cat, his own rat." Rowan is not capable of carrying the same load as a CY, no, but then I would not want to have a boat of the shape and displacement of a CY, because then I would find it less comfortable to row solo or short-handed.

    I think the Caledonia Yawl is a wonderful boat in her own right, and she is very good at what she does. In fact she's so good that she can even tolerate radical eccentricities like an amidships motorwell cutout, a rudder blade shaped like a Fender Telecaster and unconventional, experimental sail rigs without it resulting in complete disaster. But she's not the boat for me.

    I prefer to leave loud-mouthed fishing buddies who don't even like sailing safely ashore where they won't get in my way. For my purpose, which is self-contained, engine-free cruising in fairly open waters with extreme tidal currents and tide rips to contend with, and fickle and variable summer winds, the Caledonia Yawl is not the best fit.

    I have decided that for me, once I've gotten to the point where a boat is too big to safely and comfortably handle under my own steam alone, I'd rather go all the way and have that inboard diesel, ballast keel and dry, comfy berths in a cabin with a wood stove. That doesn't mean I don't like CY's, or wouldn't recommend them to others. For someone who must needs trailer their boat everywhere, and who needs to bring a lot of people along, and who doesn't mind having an outboard, a CY might be the perfect choice.

    But Rowan or a Ness Yawl is way better for the stuff I do.
    Last edited by James McMullen; 02-23-2010 at 11:11 AM.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Hey James,

    Well said for the most part. Yes, I cut a huge hole in the bottom of my CY to make provision for the larger than usual 4HP Yamaha...



    but I was able to seal the hole flush with the bottom with help from an instrument maker at the Physics Department who designed this 1/2" Lexan port so no harm done there.



    And surprise, I agree totally with you about my guitar rudder that needs replacing before racing and same goes for my shaped-by-eyeball daggerboard. Do you have any good links for machining NACA foils with a router?

    As it turns out, my girlfriend has all of her friends and all of her extended family lined up for rides in Xena this Spring in St. Augustine so we'll being taking crews of five or six sailing which is fine with a CY. The port will be in place and the motor left in Tallahassee because we just don't need it for the protected waters of Matanzas Bay. So you see life has a way of changing one's priorities and needs. It's good to have a boat that can adjust to new uses.

    We are both pleased as punch with efficient hulls that seem to sail better than one would think possible and the man that made that possible was Iain Oughtred.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Comrade, see if you can scare up a friend who is a programming geek and has access to a CNC machine. My cores for my foils were cut by a machinist friend who built his own three axis CNC in his garage as a hobby. A NACA 001 series foil shape isn't all that hard to program, I'm told, though I wouldn't actually know myself. Marine plywood for the core covered with a layer of epoxy and FG each side is simple and effective. The smoother and fairer you can sand them, the better.

    It will make a shocking and impressive difference to your pointing ability in my experience.

    I, Rowboat's Dragonfly is getting a new set of sophisticated foils this summer too, by the way.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    I foiled my marine ply centerboard (roughly, by eye) early last summer. I noticed an improvement in my pointing ability almost immediately. I would admit my foil is crude, but it's better than just a bullnosed board. It could also be that I've grown less chicken of big wind as time has passed, and with more wind comes more pointing. Also a factor.

    I suppose I'll do the blade on my kick-up rudder sometime this year, too. The blade is a solid piece of 3/4 inch purpleheart, and I'll likely have to glue on some thin fattening cheeks near the leading edge, then fair it out to the trailing edge.

    The beta boat lives.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Carving a flat board to an NACA foil is not much different than carving a round spar from a square blank. Getting one delivered form CNCastan would be easier but shaping with a plane (manual or power) or a belt sander (my favorite) is not hard. Layout a flat fore and aft; then two more flats tapering the first apexes; then smooth to final shape by eye. Use paper templates to check your progress if you are really anal. Kind of like 8 siding, then 16 siding a mast, then eyeballing it round.

    There is a chart to lay out NACA foils here http://www.boat-links.com/foilfaq.html
    Denny Wolfe
    www.wolfEboats.com

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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    CNC machining the foils - oh just call them a rudder and centerboard for christs sake - with a router - for a traditional 18 or so footer, c'mon. You have just about convinced me to foil my rudder and centerboard, but I don't think most people need a CNC machine to do it.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Quote Originally Posted by kenjamin View Post
    Hey James,

    Well said for the most part. Yes, I cut a huge hole in the bottom of my CY to make provision for the larger than usual 4HP Yamaha...

    One of the coolest, most tricked out campcruisers I've ever seen is Chris Cunningham's CY here in Seattle. He has an offset centerboard trunk, because he enjoys a footwell. And he also has a motorwell where he uses a small electric motor. The control for the electric motor is a small dial down near his feet. As he sails up to the dock on a quiet day, he'll tap the dial with his toe and suddenly gain an amazing amount of pointing ability. Magic.

    He brought Alison to Home Built Boats Weekend at CWB last year. Here was his description:
    Description: Hull and sail rig (lug main with leg o' mutton mizzen) were built to the plans. I Redesigned the entire interior to serve as a camp cruiser. The centerboard is offset, opening up the cockpit. Floorboards aft can be placed at bench height to create a sleeping platform. A dodger encloses the sleeping forward. A separate canopy covers the rest of the cockpit.
    The outfitting of the boat generated three articles in WoodenBoat
    magazine: Thole pins, spar lathe and private signal flags.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Hvalsoe View Post
    CNC machining the foils - oh just call them a rudder and centerboard for christs sake - with a router - for a traditional 18 or so footer, c'mon. You have just about convinced me to foil my rudder and centerboard, but I don't think most people need a CNC machine to do it.
    The reason we call them foils is just because it's easier. I got an OK for a daggerboard for my CY from my boat's designer, Iain Oughtred, when he wrote that "a daggerboard should work fine". Some are centerboards, some daggerboards, some offset boards etc., so you can see how the word "foils" covers everything and rudders too.

    Thanks for the link, Denny, that's almost what I'm looking for. I saw an article about machining with a router using templates (with lots of pictures) and that's the one I'm getting around to finding and following. I think it may have been Duckworks but I'll probably find it.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    I know, I know. Sorry I was in acid comment mode. CNC seems, so, high tech. Interesting though. I can see a router following templates with an extended base. Less sweat, but so much noise.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Stelios, the four-strake "Tirrik" stretched to the length of a Rowan is already available. It's called the "Ness Yawl". See if Iain will do a trade-in for your plans, maybe.
    Thanks James.What is the draft of "Rowan"?

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    James,

    On the Caledonia Yawl forum, there's a guy who frequently suggests to raise the sheer line of the arctic Tern. Here's a recent statement:

    "I would strongly recommend that you raise the sheer both fore and aft. The boats beam is carried well aft and it can look quite "droopy" is planked to the marks on the pattern. Iain's plans are a guide only so I would use the planking marks on them as a starting poing then eyeball the whole planking layout with some battens tacked to the molds."

    Did you see any issue/concern in the sheer when building Rowan?

    By the way, this is a very interesting post particularly since I plan to build an Arctic Tern but with no modifications.

    George

  26. #61

    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Quote Originally Posted by kenjamin View Post
    Thanks for the link, Denny, that's almost what I'm looking for. I saw an article about machining with a router using templates (with lots of pictures) and that's the one I'm getting around to finding and following. I think it may have been Duckworks but I'll probably find it.
    Kenjamin,

    Perhaps this is the article you had in mind?:
    http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/09/...oils/index.htm

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Christopher, that's it! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Eric,
    There is no question that CNC is more complicated, expensive and time-consuming than just "get out yer planes and carve it". This is why I suggested it to our Comrade. He loves that sort of thing. As for myself, I was trying to learn the mysteries of CNC from my friend at the time, and it seemed like a perfect test project. I wouldn't bother with it, except for it's a good excuse to sit in Doug's garage and drink his beer while waiting for his machine to complete its passes.

    stelios,
    draft with CB down: 3 1/2 feet
    draft with board up: not very much. 5-6" maybe?

    glcost,
    I think I got the sheer just about where I wanted it. I did re-line-off all of the planks since I was working to new station spacings.



    Though perhaps I could have raised it at the stern a smidgeon.



    I did do what I would always recommend now, which is to hang the sheerstrake with it wider than necessary, and then spring a batten and do the final trimming to size once the boat is right-side up and off the strongback. That way you'll have the best view of your sheer when it's pointing the right way, and you'll have the best chance of getting it just how you want it. Little twitches of a 1/4 inch here and an 1/8 inch there can make a profound difference in how your boat looks.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    OK, I gotta jump in here - James, do I understand that your daggerboard/rudder foils are NACA 0001 series? How did you come to select that particular foil shape?
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Some may prefer the slingshot sheer, but in my humble little world "swoopy" is what makes hearts flutter.

    That photo where you're in the water up past your ankles, turning the boat around to row back offshore ... I know that feeling, and it is extraordinarily satisfying.

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    Default Sooty Tern

    I wrote a letter to Iain about James' boat and asked for similar plans. He sent me plans for his latest design, the "Sooty Tern" which is very similar to Jame's boat and inspired by him. I'm getting ready to build it. Here's his email reply:

    dear Neil,
    Many thanks. Bit of a delay sorry. Dyeline printer not well; got
    the best prints i can get out of it. You get a free Oars Plan as
    compensation.

    I do not sell Nic's book; you'll have to get it from WoodenBoat. I
    know it's available now; my sister in AZ got one. If you think it is
    reasonable, i will hang on to your $40 check to cover a little extra
    cost for the SOOTY TERN plans, and also i will include my 'footnotes',
    which i am adding to the book for people i know who have it and are
    interested. It fills out a few details and sort of completes the
    story; mainly for my own amusement really, but i am surprised the
    publishers are wanting to see it, as some at least may be relevant to
    the second edition.
    They seem to agree that more boat photos can replace some of the
    superfluous portraits (the boats being more handsome than myself.)

    Great that you met James McM. After seeing photos of his beautiful
    boat i drew up a revised set of lines at 19'-8". Seemed such a fine
    idea. Then earlier this year had a guy in Italy who wanted to stretch
    a NESS YAWL as a super Raid boat. So i drew up the sail plans and
    added necessary notes, so the builder can work from the AT plans,
    using the new offsets for the slightly higher sheer. You mark those
    points on the Patterns and extend the topsides. Another is building
    i hope in OH.

    A superb boat; must be the Queen of them all! She will have good
    performance potential, and will also be a very capable seaboat. The
    sooty tern is the most elegant and adventurous of the terns. Stays at
    sea; reputedly not landing for years!

    I know you've got a lot of work to do here, but i look forward to
    the launching photos!

    Iain O

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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    James,

    Thanks for your recommendation on the sheerstrake. I like how you describe it as a preference or trim to your liking. I can see what you mean in the two photos.

    The one thing I keep flip-flopping on it open or decked. I like the practical nature of the buoyancy chambers, but I truly like the look of the open version.

    George

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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    That photo where you're in the water up past your ankles, turning the boat around to row back offshore ... I know that feeling, and it is extraordinarily satisfying.
    Hey, them is my ankles, and that's our dad in the sternsheets. I'm sure he couldn't be prouder, even if he remains baffled as to how his elder son (born and raised in Colorado) wound up being such a boat geek.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Once you've seen one McMullen boy in a goofy hat, then you've seen them all.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Okay James McMullen - one more time, with gusto

    Your advice, James (as well as that of all responders), is very much appreciated by us plodding builders whose hulls have not yet felt water. I've bookmarked a few links of Rowan pics that I visit from time to time to motivate my AT build.

    I was a bit worried about ease of rowing, but your experience tells me that I should not (or won't) sweat it.

    Thanks again.

    -G
    - Anything you can't have fun with is not worth taking seriously.

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