Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Framing and planking something like a Herreshoff/Haven 12 1/2 and bloody lead keels

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    11

    Default Framing and planking something like a Herreshoff/Haven 12 1/2 and bloody lead keels

    Hey!


    Like so many here, I have been dreaming of building a sailboat since I was a kid. I used to sail a lot with my father and spent most of my childhood in my granddads workshop risking my limbs while
    building wooden swords with the strictly forbidden bandsaw.


    After a long time studying and building a career I am now slowly getting to the point in my life where I could actually take the time to start a task like that. I spent the last months watching videos,
    studying plans, reading books and making spreadsheets with material costs and time estimates.


    I have a few designs on my shortlist and am trying to figure out if any of them are actually realistically within my capabilities.


    In terms of woodworking I am fairly confident and I have a very keen friend who builds wonderful bespoke furniture with perfect intricate joints and every tool one can imagine in his workshop.




    Studying the different methods and plans made me think about a few points and maybe you guys with your experience can give me your thoughts on some things I was wondering.


    For example - if one wanted to build quite a shapely complex hull like a Haven 12 1/2 or so - is it a completely mad idea to laminate say five strips of 20mm wide 4mm thick marine plywood into shape for the frames instead of using steam bent 20x20mm oak? Some of the frames could then even be one piece across instead of two pieces connected to the floorboards?


    And would it be a terrible idea to then do the planking also with 30mm strips of 4 or 6mm marine ply (tapered to the shape) and then have one or two layers of glass/epoxy over the entire hull as alternative to traditional planking?


    Thereís probably good reasons why that isnít done - hehe.




    Then thereís the business of lead keels, which seems a bit scary to me. Are there any tried less adventurous alternatives?


    I hope you can forgive me the foolish questions - I do not really expect that any of my thoughts make sense, but sometimes you can learn a lot from a good answer to a foolish question


    Happy Halloween and cheers for any suggestions!


    Dan

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    PNW, an island west of Seattle
    Posts
    2,141

    Default Re: Framing and planking something like a Herreshoff/Haven 12 1/2 and bloody lead kee

    I suggest that you look into building a cousin of the Haven, the Somes Sound. This was designed by John Brooks. I built one and chose it over the Haven because of it's method of build... glued lapstrake. No ribs, plywood planking. It uses the same lead keel as the Haven which is really not difficult to cast. I have build threads here for the boat and a separate one for the keel casting.

    Jeff

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    204

    Default Re: Framing and planking something like a Herreshoff/Haven 12 1/2 and bloody lead kee

    Gday Dan, you’d be making your life more complicated by deviating from planned build method. Laminated frames for one need lotsa wood both for cutting the strakes and to clean up afterwards. Not to mention all the glue. BTW my build has lam frames but it was designed that way.
    i cast my own lead ballast (500 kg) it wasn’t that difficult or dangerous but I took a lot of precautions. If I can do it..........
    Glued lapstrake is a great method to build with because it cuts out a LOT of sanding. Just take your time and get your plank lines fair.
    a couple of other designers to look at if you don’t know them, Iain Oughtred and Francois Vivier.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    24,833

    Default Re: Framing and planking something like a Herreshoff/Haven 12 1/2 and bloody lead kee

    Good start, asking questions. The days of hanging around the boat shop and learning by watching are mostly long gone.
    Plywood will work for lapstrake planking, which is a compilation of flat "facets" in the section view, bent into a longitudinal curves in the plan and profile views. Plywood will not work where the plank curves are compound i.e. as a substitute for carvel.
    The best boat building advice I ever received was to build something I could finish in a few months. Which really means "Build a simple skiff"
    The skills required will be gained in short order and you can keep and use, sell or even gift the result.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,638

    Default Re: Framing and planking something like a Herreshoff/Haven 12 1/2 and bloody lead kee

    I could not agree with Jake more--building a skiff is a fast lesson in basic boat building skills that will apply to anything you build next. If you want to build a small sailing skiff, look at Hylan's LIttle Crab Skiff; his regular Crab Skiff would be great for a 16 footer. Reul Parker's skiff book was the source for Tiempo, a lovely, traditional looking skiff out of Australia that I have admired from afar for years. I attach a photo of Tiempo below. What a beauty, and Mac, the builder, is on this forum off and on. If you want to plane, and build a racer, look at a Windmill, or the stretched version for greater capacity (Malu). If you want to row, build a Wisp, like mine, or one of the many smaller versions for putting around a harbor. If you want to throw a small motor on back and fish, Hylan, again, has both electric and Chesapeake style skiff plans, and there are many similar versions. It might not make sense to build a more complicated boat but a Lightning is a version of a skiff--and those who disagree need to go down sought to Charleston and visit some of the small craft museums in the area to see the origin of Lightnings. SKiffs are supremely useful for a first time boat. Regarding the Herreshoff, Oughtred's plywood boat construction book is, for me, the best resource around for understanding how to build a Some Sound, although if I were building one, I would strip a Haven 12.5 with Alaskan Yellow Cedar, or maybe even heavier and more prone to rot, Doug Fir. A skiff will teach you much, and then you get to use it while you're building your much more complicated Herreshoff. My humble opinion.
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,638

    Default Re: Framing and planking something like a Herreshoff/Haven 12 1/2 and bloody lead kee

    Tiempo:
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,638

    Default Re: Framing and planking something like a Herreshoff/Haven 12 1/2 and bloody lead kee

    http://www.mackhorton.com/Mack_Horto...ing_Tempo.html

    http://www.dhylanboats.com/new_construction/crab_skiff/

    A first time build. The builder was a helicopter pilot. I visited him down in San Diego--IIRC, he had launched the boat with oars but did not have the sailing rig done at that time. https://smallboatsmonthly.com/article/crabbing-skiff/

    Stripping a Herreshoff: https://www.boatbuildingacademy.com/...-steven-adler/
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Norwalk CT
    Posts
    1,252

    Default Re: Framing and planking something like a Herreshoff/Haven 12 1/2 and bloody lead kee

    Better you ask the questions now than when youre knee deep in what turns out to be expensive firewood. Lots of boatsbget started. Not as many boats get finished because people bit off more than they could chew.

    Pick a simple design like has alraedy been mentioned. Build a scale model using the plans ; Balsa, plycard and get the feel for it.

    If you want to get out on the water dont choose a two-year project.

    Ask lots of questions. They are cheaper than mistakes....

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,638

    Default Re: Framing and planking something like a Herreshoff/Haven 12 1/2 and bloody lead kee

    Yes, models: this book has an excellent, detailed build instruction for a skiff. I own it, and I bought it to use for reference on a 19'6" Chesapeake Deadrise I built, for the interior. The book could be used to build a full sized skiff, here: https://www.amazon.com/Model-Boat-Bu.../dp/0887405347. I saw on Facebook that PETER KUNST has built some accurate Herreshoffs: https://www.facebook.com/Peter-Kunst...ref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARCNJFQScFOZdgRiwfMKjpkTNpw0OZUSWDjtEszTrLo1jj UnWfodbSrVxqtHyEinVmUy2jidFI1kzzpuFwzTfRUYIwueAzYn utpIIsIGp7QY1acaa1Sp9bpmj4S5xobm-36s73yyG8H9XAN7ffzlFot-gM_uHyTdHzv3D65Nln83-1eATVW35n7qfopK6oY_6C-aGEA7MDOe1exaC36flUR_BtfQ4NQ0H4buEnxZXOf5w9xIaWAQI kPG8rI0PEgN7hkNX3R6qbmLtoD71vDzGi47DCnJ9Sox3HBJDT_ zhz3RKUTsnxh0A2yLzlud0Sh42mFL7Vhxj0Ctyqjv53s4nI-dLweECwEyBb04)) You might drop him an email.
    Last edited by davebrown; 11-02-2019 at 08:45 PM.
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Concord, NH, USA
    Posts
    444

    Default Re: Framing and planking something like a Herreshoff/Haven 12 1/2 and bloody lead kee

    Or a sailing dory. One of the designs from John Gardner's book could be planked in plywood instead of solid wood.

    https://www.woodenboatstore.com/coll...e-john-gardner

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,638

    Default Re: Framing and planking something like a Herreshoff/Haven 12 1/2 and bloody lead kee

    duplicate post.
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Framing and planking something like a Herreshoff/Haven 12 1/2 and bloody lead kee

    Thank you all very much for taking the time to share your experience - I appreciate it.

    I was planning on building a small tender first and then see if I get on to try something like the Haven.

    jpatrick - thank you - the Some Sound looks very nice! I will look into that as well.

    Andrew & . Canoeyawl - thanks for your advice on the laminated frames, that does make sense!

    Dave - thanks for your generous response! The strip planked Herreshoff-link looks amazing! So does the Tiempo!

    Willin - thank you for your advice! I definitely want to build a 1:7 or 1:5 model of whatever I would take up first.

    Guillemot - Thank you, that's interesting, is that strip planking or carvel/lapstroke where they'd use Plywood instead of solid wood?

    Best,
    Dan

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,638

    Default Re: Framing and planking something like a Herreshoff/Haven 12 1/2 and bloody lead kee

    This thread has reminded me of how good looking that Somes version is.
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •