The Coquina Rudder

[Bongo Boy]

I'm not a builder nor a sailor, but have a couple of simple questions without the correct language to express them. I'll just have to use the language of the non-sailor. My apology up front, and i f you enjoy a great laugh at my lack of understanding I'm totally okay with that!

In Maynard Bray's Getting to Know Coquina story in Wooden Boat, I get the image of a tight line running athwartships, at the helmsman's disposal--the terms 'push' and 'pull' for controlling the rudder is what did this. So, I see a single line from one side of the rudder, through the transom, athwart the 'cockpit' [PLEASE forgive me, guys, I know I'm just making folks spew here] and out the transom to the other side of the rudder. A nice, snug setup.

This image doesn't make sense, though, when I also read (somewhere) that one advantage of this unique setup is that it allows the helmsman to control the rudder from a much more lenient position, fore and aft (as opposed to a stick). Well, in an airplane it's a 'stick', I guess in a boat it's a tiller.

Anyway, I've searched in vain for a nice photo or drawing that shows what the fella is faced with. I'm interested, curious, and boggled.

Finally, now getting in way over my head with questions I have no right to be asking...are there alternatives for rudder control on this design that wouldn't make a 'real' sailor angry? Another way to ask the same question: IF you were to build a Coquina yourself or find one to acquire, would you have a more-preferred setup?

I don't feel any need to apologize for my ignorance, nor should anyone. I do want to back in with tail dragging if I haven't done my studies.

[AJZimm]

No such thing as a dumb question. It's how we all started.

You're almost there in terms of visualizing it, you just have to think about carrying the athwartship part of the line further forward, so that there is a length of line on both port and starboard sides back where you will be sitting (the sternsheets). That way, you can grab the line on the side you are sitting on and either push or pull it fore and aft to turn the motion at the rudder into a side to side motion. Here is a picture of such an arrangement with a rudder head bar, but the principle is the same as if the line were lead through the transom and attached to the rudder directly.

In this picture the line seems to be a little slack to allow pushing, but that is easily remedied by shortening the line

[donald branscom]

Many ways to rig a boat. It is personal, and it should be done in a workmanship fashion so mishaps cannot occur.

[rbgarr]

The reason for the line controls is that it allows the helmsman to sit forward of the mizzen mast on either side of the boat without having to deal with a tiller that interferes with it. You can sit on the rail of the boat and steer with the rope along the inside of the rail or sit inside the boat and steer with the line where it crosses the cockpit. In both cases you never need to look astern. It's a good rig on a small balanced boat.

[Thorne]

That is a pic of the yoke tiller and steering line setup on my dory skiff above. A bit different from the " continuous line" Cocquina setup, as mine has two separate lines that must be pulled, and a 2:1 purchase to ease weather helm issues.

However you slice it, steering lines will throw most dinghy sailors for a loop at first, resulting in some failed tacks or screamin' 360 turns. But they soon get used to the reverse steering ( like a ship's wheel) compared to tiller steering.

Another drawback is lack of feedback on rudder pressure and position, which some guest helmsmen never quite get past.

But for steering past a yawl mast, or allowing guests to sit in the sternsheets and steer, nothing like steering lines!

[Rob Hazard]

My Coquina hasn't hit the water yet, so I'm talking through my hat to some extent, but I figure if I learned to steer with one foot on either a tiller or a wheel from either side of a boat, I can certainly get the hang of Herreshoff's steering line setup. We're not talkin' rocket science here!

[Chip-skiff]

Here's a link to a past thread on rope steering with some photos.

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/show...=rope+steering

Singlehanding a light 15 ft. skiff I didn't like the tiller setup, even with an extension, so I mocked up a rope steering rig (after seeing a piece on Coquina in WB). The rope rig lacks the immediate feel of a tiller, but works much better for using my weight to trim the boat. So I'm rebuilding the boat with rope-steering.

[Hwyl]

I'm not a builder nor a sailor,

In Maynard Bray's Getting to Know Coquina story in Wooden Boat, .

I've never sailed a Coquina, but I had a friend who was amazingly good(he used to windsurf to his bartending job) he owned a Coquina and said it was more than a handful to sail.

If you're looking for a learn to sail boat. I'd say you're on the wrong track.

[James McMullen]

You could always go with the push-pull tiller that a whole bunch of us Sail & Oar open boat sailors prefer. It solves the problems of clearing the mizzen while still letting the helmsman sit anywhere in the boat, even when hiking way out on the rail or standing up to see where the rocks are better. It is so handy that even some guys without mizzens will use it to improve the ability to move anywhere in the boat fore, aft or sideways and still be able to steer. Very much better than a yoke and line in my experience--quicker response with no slop or stretch, more comfortable in the hands, no rope or pulleys in the way to get tangled up with your gear or stowage or where you want to lean or sit, faster to rig up and take down. A locally built Coquina has changed over to this sort of setup, so there's no question that it would work for you too.

[slidercat]

Slider has a continuous line steering system, for various reasons; one was because I wanted steering to be available from any point along either cockpit, and I didn't want tillers intruding into the center deck space. Slider only draws about 9 inches, board up, and when sailing in very shallow water, with the rudders kicked back, the helm gets pretty heavy, because of the leverage of the long rudders. So I put a couple blocks on the crossbar, to double the purchase of the line, and now steering is light even with the rudders kicked up.

[Bongo Boy]

If you're looking for a learn to sail boat. I'd say you're on the wrong track.

Understand, and point taken. I'm thinking it could well be boat #2 or #3, but of course boat #1 or #2 might inform me enough to know it's not the right one for me. Still, it's an attractive thing and folks seem to think it's a pretty good boat, so it's one I'm interested in.

Referring again to Bray's WB article on sailing her...I barely understood 10% of the article, and had little idea what he was talking about. So, a long way to go.

[Rob Hazard]

Bongo Boy,
A couple years ago there were several Coquina threads running around here. They might be worth a search. After 4 years of very intermittent work my Coquina is in the painting and rigging stage. She is my 5th or 6th build, depending on how I count. I would not recommend her as a first project. Better to start off with a Shellback kit or something simple and flat-bottomed, to get a feel for how boats go together, and to get you out on the water where you really want to be.

[Bongo Boy]

Thanks, Rob. Yes, I read at least one of those threads that included your progress. I didn't seen any photos showing the rudder setup, but I'm okay now what with the info and photos provided above.

Unfortunately, the result of those threads is to make me even more determined to build something fairly traditional...and difficult. I'm also even more motivated to build a model. I could see myself possibly 'cheating' by not making everything using exactly the same tools & techniques, but making things correctly so they assemble and function in exactly the same way as full-scale--to the degree practical/possible.

Odd as it probably seems, I'm actually more interested in building something I find hugely intriguing than I am in getting out on the water.

[Thorne]

Odd as it probably seems, I'm actually more interested in building something I find hugely intriguing than I am in getting out on the water.

An excellent perspective for a Coquina builder!

Have a great time building, you'll end up with a lovely boat. And as mentioned above you can always change the steering setup later if desired.

[Rob Hazard]

Right you are, Thorne!
If you are really intrigued with the building rather than the sailing, Bongo, you will need to decide early on whether you want to build the boat as closely as possible to what Capt Nat drew in the spring of 1889. Bray and Hylan's drawing packet includes a print of Herreshoff's original drawing. The side decks and the smaller sailing rig were afterthoughts. Which is to say that if he'd known when he was drawing her what he knew after a summer of sailing her, she'd have looked different. Something to think about.