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Thread: Will my flopper stopper work?

  1. #1
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    Default Will my flopper stopper work?

    Anyone used one? any tips or tricks?



    off on the right before the acrylic went on..




    made out of whatistohand , in this case 4.5 mm acrylic sheet to make it sink and 9mm ply, 1M each side and a pocket of lead rebated into the ply one corner.
    Nylon strops about 2m long... I left a tail on the front one so I can have an extra retrieval line/ in case something breaks.. plus I thought maybe it'd help stabilise it fore and aft?
    unsure how I'll use it yet... maybe off the boom or if thats not enough leverage, off the spinnaker pole....
    Last edited by John B; 12-14-2009 at 07:33 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Looks darned uncomfortable. Just wear cowboy boots and keep it tucked in.
    If there's more water on the outside than in, she's afloat.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    See , I knew I'd get some good advice here, plus I just got my first laugh of the day .

    Only 10 days of bah humbug , a few more of eating, and then we get to try it.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Dunno how big your feetz is...mine's wide 13's......lotta drag there, I guess I could loan ya a pair or two, gotta closet full...ya can't have the croc or gator ones...python's O.K. though. Ifn yure flopper dunno stopper, let it drag down one leg of the pants into the top of the boots.
    Wakan Tanka Kici Un
    ..a bad day sailing is a heckuva lot better than the best day at work.....
    Fighting Illegal immigration since 1492....
    Live your life so that whenever you lose, you're ahead."
    "If you live life right, death is a joke as far as fear is concerned."

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Shouldn't you have two of those? One out each side?
    Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    If those lines go through tight holes, they will wear excessively. Can you put in rubber washers or the like? And yes, two flopper stoppers are needed...

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Dang, I don't want 2.

    The bucket/ rock experiments last year were less than ideal but encouraging enough for me to go to the next level.
    I suppose I'll report back.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Its not a paravane , its just a flopper stopper for at anchor.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit View Post
    If those lines go through tight holes, they will wear excessively. Can you put in rubber washers or the like? And yes, two flopper stoppers are needed...
    Thats a good idea thanks. The holes are radiused both sides and the strops are just figure 8 knots at the ends so the thing can stow flat under a squab in a bunk.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    C'mon John. Make the second one.
    Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    You get a second Dragon and I'll make a second FS. Howzat?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Flopper stoppers are used at anchor and while running for most of the 30-60 foot trollers on the west coast. They are commercially available, or there are a lot of homemade variants out there. The canandian ones I have each have half of a 60 lb lead cannonball on the leading edge, and most have some kind of a vertical fin which you attach a chain swivel to.

    The important thing is making sure you have enough chain or line so they don't go airborne on you, and placing them far enough up on the poles to work effectively. And for the record, quite a few guys only throw one flopper in, it does reduce roll, just not as much as two. Some crabbers run around with only the port one in so it doesn't get tangled in the pot lines.

    Drifting or at anchor, flopper stoppers always make for a much gentler ride, and a lot less spilled coffee in the morning. Good luck -C.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    JB. it's something like the anti-roll stabilisers used by trawlers is it? Which boat are you going to use it/them on?
    Rick

    PS Ian should buy that Dragon so that I don't have to!

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Thanks for the insight henrieta.

    No Rick...this one is purely for roll stabilising at anchor. We like to anchor away from the crowd and that means we could be out on an exposed coast and there's always a risk of a roll setting up ( conditions change etc etc).
    Past experience shows that if you can just break the cycle of the roll with something like this , you can make life considerably more comfortable.
    For example on Waione I used to strap the dinghy alongside and stress it up to the boom. Boat would roll stbd with no impedence but rolling port it had to lift the dinghy. I found that instead of rolling hard say 5 times , she'd roll one hard 2 lighter 3 damped etc.

    Last year I played with a 20L bucket weighted and hung out one side..it worked enough but but I think this will be significantly better.

    This is for Riada. I'm thinking about adding a second one but I'm not so keen on having to set two up or get two in . Part of the deal is a fairly quick removal of the thing so we can up and go pronto if needed.
    Last edited by John B; 12-15-2009 at 01:33 AM.

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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    "You get a second Dragon and I'll make a second FS. Howzat?"

    Now that's a dangerous thing to suggest to Ian.

    You should know he doesn't know when to say enough.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    I know.. I'm feeling a bit guilty now.

    look at this place ...


    worth the possibility of a little discomfort eh..

    Other end of the bay..



    in 2 to 3 weeks or so.. thats the direction we're heading
    Last edited by John B; 12-15-2009 at 01:45 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    I've used a single flopper-stopper at anchor and it worked quite well. I've never used one/them while underway though; maybe that's when you need two?

    The one I had used small diameter wire rope for the bridle instead of line (not sure line would be a problem though).

    The one I had was a commercially available one (came with the boat) and it had variable resistance -- lots on the "up" and not much on the "down. It was basically a flat rectangle, made of two parallel lengths of ~1/2" diameter metal rod running around the outsides of the rectangle. The whole thing was probably about 18" x 24" and maybe about 15 lbs (?).

    In between the two layers of metal rod was a layer of heavy clear plastic - something like what they have hanging in strips on the front of the freezer case at the grocer. The plastic was slit in an "X" shape. There were additional metal rods (one layer) running across underneath the plastic to support it.

    So when the stopper wanted to sink, the plastic "opened" and being heavy it went down easily. But then it offered a lot of resistance to coming up again, because the plastic would "close" and the metal bars wouldn't let it open the other way.

    I've never watched any other type work, so I don't know if the "open going down but closed going up" was an important feature or was just a sales point on this one (which did happen to work well). We rigged it at the end of a spinnaker pole that was set perpendicular to the boat.

    Pen
    Last edited by Penokee; 12-15-2009 at 01:50 AM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Thanks Penokee, good to hear.

    I thought the nylon would add some shock absorbtion on the take up.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Have a look at what the Dashew's have done John, their system obviously works. See http://dashewoffshore.com/rollcontrol.asp
    Lots of other interesting stuff on their website too, take a look when you have the time. not trad boats, but interesting stuff from long time cruisers.

    I'm interested in you breaking the roll cycle on Waione, an interesting idea. Apparently Settler used never to roll properly due to her large sponsons, which would dig in and stop the rolling motion the moment it started.

    Daniel

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Thanks for the addition to your post Pen. Thats similar to the link Daniel has posted .. the general type that the Dashews use. Very interesting!

  22. #22

    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    You're welcome. On my setup there was probably about 6' - 7' or so of line going between the spinnaker pole (perpendicular to the mast) and the top of the flopper-stopper bridle, so that provided some shock absorption. The wire rope bridle only extended about 1' - 2' above the plane of the flopper stopper.

    I can't quite get my mind around whether or not the spinnaker pole topping lift would have added to the shock absorption or not (embarrassing as I feel like I should know this...).

    At any rate, the setup seemed to work well, and I didn't notice any problems in the rig. The longest it was set up continuously was probably a couple of weeks in a rolly anchorage.

    I had the basic idea from a chapter in "The Cost Conscious Cruiser," by Lin and Larry Pardey. They fashioned theirs from an old milk crate with a canvas lining and an anchor inside, if I remember correctly. I might have tried to make one if there wasn't already one aboard.

    I did a quick search and found a photo of one like I had. It's a little hard to make out, but there are some additional metal bars running here and there under the plastic to support it from "back flapping."

    [Well, I was going to add a photo, but the image manager is telling me that my image was 2.7kb too large -- and it was only 16kb total. Not that it really matters since you've made your own.]

    Sure did make life in a rolly anchorage nicer.

    Pen

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryLL View Post
    Nope, not a chance.
    I agree, in the sense that I know them. Only had them on my fishing boat..



    ...and ran two of them. Also would 'tank down' whenever leaving the harbor to settle things down.

    Watched the starboard one shoot out of the water once, while longlining for halibut. Not a nice trip

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Am I mizzen something?

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    I have had to do an exhaustive investigation of paravanes for an accident investigation. Learned more about the critters than I ever wanted to know.

    John B., your flopper stopper will work after a fashion while at anchor, but there is room for improvement. It will not work well as a paravane while underweigh.

    First improvement has already been mentioned - chafe protection. Personally, I'd use eyebolts and chains from panel to a central shackle and rope from there up, but I s'pose all rope will be fine. The device will be in constant motion and cyclical strain when deployed, so chafe will be a big factor.

    Second, there should be a weight on the tip of one point. If not, as the panel submerges it will flutter and skate, causing the bridle to foul. A weight will tip the panel into a nose-down dive, keeping the bridle clear and placing the panel deep in the water column in preparation for the coming pull up.

    Third, be sure of your rigging scantlings. There is a lot of energy expended when your boat rolls and the bridle and associated components have to be up to the task. That said, if you are using your sail boom to deploy the panel, make sure that the bridle is the weak point so that an unexpected big roller won't damage your sailing rig. I'd rig the leg of the bridle attached to the weighted point of the panel to be weaker than the other two legs so that a powerful pull will break it and leave the other two legs intact on the main rope. This way, the panel will adopt a nose-down attitude, removing strain from your boom, and the panel will be recoverable.

    I'd vote for two, rigged on either side of the hull, but understand your reluctance to do so. I'd rig a single on the lee side of the boat.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Its weighted one corner Michael , and won't be used under way.
    Good point about a breakaway, although I don't have expectations of super efficiency from it .. more about breaking the roll cycle than stopping it all together.
    And I am aware that if I fit slicks, I'll probably blow the diff. This one looks like 205 radials to me.
    Probably I'll use a doubled halyard and use a strop between the unit and the halyard so there's no chafe point at the pole( on the halyard).

    I like the milk crate idea.. hinged perspex in the base and a weight. Use it as a box the rest of the time.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    Am I mizzen something?

    Rig three!

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Quote Originally Posted by dhic001 View Post
    Have a look at what the Dashew's have done John, their system obviously works. See http://dashewoffshore.com/rollcontrol.asp
    Lots of other interesting stuff on their website too, take a look when you have the time. not trad boats, but interesting stuff from long time cruisers.

    I'm interested in you breaking the roll cycle on Waione, an interesting idea. Apparently Settler used never to roll properly due to her large sponsons, which would dig in and stop the rolling motion the moment it started.

    Daniel

    Hey Daniel.. did you get the nitrous sorted out on that BBQ of yours?

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Yes and no John. Got a new batch of coal, which at least burns, but am in the process of cleaning up the grate and tubes so I can provide air to burn said coal. Unfortunately the grate, which was a bit sad when we left home, is now in a very sorry state. Am going to try and get a new one. As of the moment, the old girl still has asthma, but breathing will be improving soon. Am still hopeful of having an oil burner fitted before the summer is out, then I'll be able to maintain really good pace.

    Daniel

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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryLL View Post
    Brian,
    I didn't know you had commercial fishing in your background; was this prior to IFQs?

    The Ginny C is a great boat. I was on her several times back in the mid-80s when Jim E. packed for SPC. I think there might have been another owner in there between Jim and you. A lovely toy no doubt, but on the expensive side if she's not earning her keep.
    We owned her for a couple years. I leased it out to real fisherman, rather than fish her myself.

    Kelly W owned her after Jim, then I bought her.

    Sold her when I got the job on the Slope. Insurance was reaching $9,000 a year.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    We were at one of seemingly numerous endless school, school board, school dinners school BBqs school ... yeah well, you get the drift... school board end of year pizza dinner thing at a local couples place. They have a gen u wine pizza oven and the way they perk that up periodically is with an LPG flame thrower device similar to the units road tar seal guys use. I was looking at it and thinking.. " oooo,Thats what Daniel needs"......

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Some boats are run on LPG John, but really LPG, fire and a wooden boat aren't such a good mix. The oil burner will be the thing, but in the meantime I'll give everything a good clean out then try the new coal. Hopefully a new grate is on its way shortly.

    Did use one of those LPG flame throwers to light the fire once, couldn't find any paper or matches, but I knew the flame thrower was on the workshop bench. Worked ok, but not as effective as I epxected, took awhile for the wood to catch, and it definitely didn't want to light coal.

    Daniel

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Interesting day yesterday.. I had to go off on a boat with an attractive blonde woman. We saw two people we both knew and it was highly amusing watching their brains shift gear.
    Whats John doing with Suz
    Whats Suz doing with John on her boat. The questions were writ large upon their brows.
    Answer.. why, I was helping her with her self steering gear and she was helping me with my skin fitting.

    Anyway.. the flopper stopper needs a trip to the workshop for a modification after a truncated sea trial. Evidently 1 lamination of 4.5mm acrylic sheet is not enough weight to overcome the nature of 9mm meranti.
    It dived fine in the lead corner.. but is teetering on the edge of negative buoyancy. I need to add more cowbell.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    I know.. I'm feeling a bit guilty now.

    look at this place ...


    worth the possibility of a little discomfort eh..

    Other end of the bay..



    in 2 to 3 weeks or so.. thats the direction we're heading
    That looks remarkably like the spot the BBC ran a reality show called 'Castaway' about a year ago - is it called Stewart Island?.
    The remarkable thing about it was that it was supposedly uninhabited, but in fact - was'nt.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Nice spotting.... It is the exact place.Eastern coast of Great Barrier Island . Heretaunga( sp) bay.


  36. #36
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    .... I need to add more cowbell.
    don't we all

  37. #37
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Quote Originally Posted by salty87 View Post
    don't we all
    I gotta fever!

  38. #38
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Bump for Redbopeep. This thing worked and was quite effective at breaking the roll cycle I was talking about earlier. Its no magic bullet and bigger would be better as well as more leverage out on a pole rather than off the boom. I only had it about 5 ft outside the rail but thats still 11 ft off centre so it was worth the effort and I'll be taking it away again this next christmas cruise.( If I don't make a better one). Boat is about 11 ton or so.
    IIRc its about 1m each side.


    a pic before its sunk to about 2 m


    we spent a lot of nights like this on that cruise, I'm glad I had it...


  39. #39
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Quote Originally Posted by paladin View Post
    Dunno how big your feetz is...mine's wide 13's......lotta drag there, I guess I could loan ya a pair or two, gotta closet full...ya can't have the croc or gator ones...python's O.K. though. Ifn yure flopper dunno stopper, let it drag down one leg of the pants into the top of the boots.
    or wear tight jocks.

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Like your dingy experiment , our flopper stopper works on many problem like roll and getting ice cream back without melting

  41. #41
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    Default Re: Will my flopper stopper work?

    Looks like an ordinary carpet to me but there's that big triangular thingamy in the way..................................

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