Oselvar Faering Build

[tapsnap]

(Traditional Oselvar færing exhibited in Bergen Maritime Museum. taken from www.vikingship.com)



I have always found Norwegian boat design to be quite beautiful in its form and construction. Faerings in particular from the Hardanger area have an economy and apparent simplicity of construction that I am drawn to. Inspired by Lagspiller’s thread on this forum last year. “Traditional west-norwegian rowboat project”, I’ve decided to try to build an Oselvar boat. I’ve been gathering as much information about these boats as I can for the better part of a year, but there is not a lot out there in terms of plans. Lagspiller has shared with me some of the drawings from the boat he built and that has been extremely helpful. I have also emailed him asking a number of questions.

The Oselvar is a three plank boat and the boat he built has four but the lines are very similar. I also bought “Inshore craft for Norway” by Bernhard and Oystein Faeroyvik. This book contains the lines for this boat as well as many others. So I scanned them and brought them into my 3D program and built the boat in 3D to give me a better understanding of the forms and lines and angles. It’s clear however that all this information is useful only as a guide and the boat will be built, to a large extent, by eye.

At this point I should clarify, I don’t have a lot of boat building experience but I do have a lot of experience working with wood. My background is in sculpture; most of my work was in wood but these days I make furniture. I do a lot of steam bending in my own designs but the biggest differences between furniture making and boat building is that the project gets wet all the time. This introduces a whole other set of considerations that a person like me has to become familiar with.
I am just finishing off my first boat – it should be in the water next summer. Because my workshop gets below freezing this time of year I will finish it in the spring. It is a glued lapstrake dory. It was a great first boat project but there was something quite dissatisfying about gluing those strakes together. I dislike plywood for most applications and I have never been a fan of epoxy. I guess I’m just a traditionalist. It has been partly that dissatisfaction compelling me to try to build a traditional Oselvar boat. I find the lines of Iain Oughtred’s boats to be beautiful but the way they are constructed puts me off buying a set of his plans. There is also something about the way a Norwegian boat is built that appeals to my sculptural approach to working with wood. When building a boat over forms that are taken off drawings, the whole process is very mechanical and dry; there is no involvement of the imagination or “eye”. Even in my furniture making, there are no plans from which I work and there are rarely any fixed dimensions. There is symmetry and balance but given that a lot of what I make is steam bent, there is lot of flexibility in dimensions.

I started gathering materials for this project last spring. I began with the stems. I looked at the two part spliced stems that are common to most Norwegian boats and decided, I guess rather arrogantly, that it looked weak. Instead I decided to steam bend the stems as one piece. At first, I had a number of failures due to inferior grade white oak.


Next, I attempted the bends with black walnut, which resulted in success. However, I was told on this forum that I would have to beef up the dimensions of my stems if I wanted to use black walnut instead of white oak. Finally I found some top quality quarter sawn white oak that was still green and very cheap. Perfection! They have been drying since April on this rack.I painted the ends and the edges with wax and so far there are no cracks.

[tapsnap]

The same saw mill happened to have a very large cedar trunk sitting around on a large pile of other trunks. I worked with the mill owner to cut it up. He charged me $150 for this whole pile. He cut it to 6/4 but I ripped it all down and planed it up to 9/16”. It has very few knots and is very wide; perfect for the wide planks for an Oselvar. It's Atlantic cedar. I cut off all the sap wood last May as I had an infestation of ambrosia beetles. The little bastards damaged quite a bit of the heart wood too.

Next, I started on the keel. I had difficulty finding a good piece of white oak for my keel so I ended up making it out of Black Locust. It took quite some work, as I got the initial dimensions too thick. I wanted to plane it down to the correct dimensions but found even the sharpest high angle plane would tear out the grain. I resorted to scrapers. It took a long time.





I set up the keel in the front of the barn, where I will be building this boat. I put in an overhead beam against which I will be able to brace the planks and braces for the stems.














Whilst in Maine last July 4th I cut some red oak crotches and brought them back to Connecticut with me. I axed them to about 2" and they are now drying. I was hoping to use them for ribs or maybe oarlocks.







Anyway, I'm at the point where I am starting to shape the stems before I join them to the keel. I will keep you posted.

[Thad]

Thanks! Keep at it. Look forward to rowing her.

[Peerie Maa]

Those crooks might do nicely for the beam and standing knees that you need:

They certainly will make the kjeip that she will need.

[pcford]

Good luck with your project. I have a three strake Oselver that is now having at least one of the garboards replaced by a local guy who has spent a lot of time in boatshops in Norway.

You dialed in the way to solve the extremely wide dimension of the middle strake on Oselvers: They used the swelling on the butt of a tree to accomplish it. The middle strake on my boat is about 21 inches wide. Because of this extreme width, they are very prone to drying out and cracking. In Norway, when they are hauled out, they are put in a tiny boathouse a few feet from the water's edge and covered with a wet mat. Don't get freaked if it does crack. I was concerned about cracking on my boat. I asked an old Scandanavian shipwright at a yard where I was working...he said, "Oh, we just let them sink and haul them out two weeks later. Your boat will be ok."

You might note the the forward and after garboards are often hewn not steamed. In other words, you start with a thick board and carve the shape. As I understand it, traditional Norwegian building did not use steaming very much if at all.

I would be very, very cautious about altering any detail on your boat. Anytime I have done this I have come to grief. The boat has about a thousand years of history...now that's a traditional boat. In that time, the builders have refined out the best way to build these boats.

Best of luck...I agree, they are beautiful boats.

[tapsnap]

21 inches!!!, Really? according to my measurements the widest plank is about 16 1/2". Are you sure you are not measuring diagonally down the stem?
The middle strake is prone to cracking from the reports I have read and I was on the fence for a long time whether to build a 3 strake or 4 strake boat, but it seemed such a shame to cut these wide planks down. But if they indeed need to be 21", then I guess I will go back to planning a 4 strake boat. Either way, I am using Atlantic cedar which swells and contracts less than the Norwegian/ Scots Pine that they traditionally make these boats with. I hope that will make a favorable difference. On the other hand, I don't think the Norwegians have such extremes in temperature and humidity as they do here in Connecticut. Well, if it cracks then I will just have to sink the boat for a week or two.

In preparation for this project in October I started making the clamps that will hold these extra-wide planks in place. I make one of these every week or two. I still need 3 or 4.

[pcford]

tapsnap....Your boat is roughly 16ft. long...if I am reading the drawings correctly. Mine is 22.

By the way, I should have said the middle strake appears to have been cut from a piece of wood about 22 inches wide. I am extrapolating the upper and lower edges. At no point is the plank measure 21 inches from lower to upper edge. The upper edge is forward of the lower edge as it lands on the stem. So I projected these two edges. I hope I made myself clear.

[Peerie Maa]

tapsnap....Your boat is roughly 16ft. long...if I am reading the drawings correctly. Mine is 22.

By the way, I should have said the middle strake appears to have been cut from a piece of wood about 22 inches wide. I am extrapolating the upper and lower edges. At no point is the plank measure 21 inches from lower to upper edge. The upper edge is forward of the lower edge as it lands on the stem. So I projected these two edges. I hope I made myself clear.

Tapsnap,
The best way to resolve this is to build a model, say at 1/16 scale, planked in cardboard. That will show you whether you can get your planks out of the stock that you have.

[tapsnap]

Peerie Maa, I agree, I have been considering doing just that. The 3D model is great for certain things but I think an actual model would help resolve a lot of unknowns in the construction.

[emf]

Here is a couple pics out at Jay smiths place of I believe pcfords 22' faering and a larger version in the background.If you are wondering about the viking ship there is more info at http://wildexpeditions.org/index.html
Jay plans on waiting till Feb. to continue work on the ship.

[pcford]

Thanks, emf!!! Did not get a good photo when I was at Jay's place. By the way...both vessels are stem to stem...going the same way, in other words.

[tapsnap]

Nice. It's unusual to see a faering that big. At that size they are usually seksaerings aren't they? Do you primarily sail this boat? I understand what you meant about the really wide planks now.
I went to the website it's a very impressive project and a great program for kids. I would have loved to have done something like that when I was a teenager.

[pcford]

Nice. It's unusual to see a faering that big. At that size they are usually seksaerings aren't they? Do you primarily sail this boat? I understand what you meant about the really wide planks now.
I went to the website it's a very impressive project and a great program for kids. I would have loved to have done something like that when I was a teenager.

It has only one rowing station. It is mostly sailed. It rows pretty easily, but is not a lot of fun to row into a headwind. The boat definitely had alterations from original...it had a lead ballast keel. It sails fine without the ballast keel. Not like a racer but it'll definitely go to windward. Also, it has fore and aft seats on each side over the middle frames. I did not see additional rowing stations when I replaced the original sheer clamp. It is a mystery what the original configuration was.

[tapsnap]

I managed to get a little work done on the stems this evening.

[emf]

Hey tapsnap, just wondering what 3d program you used?

[tapsnap]

The 3D program I used is Lightwave 3D. I have been using it for the past 10 years or so. It's not really meant for this kind of 3D work though. It's more for 3D animation. A better program for 3D engineering is Solidworks. It's a program I use also but I'm not as adept in using it, so it's much faster for me to do it in Lightwave.

[tapsnap]

Continuing to shape the stems this evening. I began with the bandsaw then finished with the spokeshave.

[heimlaga]

Will steamed stems really hold their shape over time?

An aquintance of mine messed up the bow of an otherwise fine clinker built doubleender by steaming the stem instead of hewing it from a grown crook. The steamed stem straightened a wee bit as he planked and the bow dropped and the flare was reduced. He did not notice the error until he fitted the last strake and could not ger a fair shear. There was nothing he could do about it. Sad story.

In Scandinavian boat building steaming was not used until the early years of the 20th century. In my area the oldtimers split the forward and aft pieces for the first two strakes from logs with twisted grain. Each half of the log was hewn to become a plank. The third and fourth strake were soaked in water and bent in place cold.
The gunwale and outwale were sometimes split from long thin spruce trees that had grown in the shadow of thier higher neighbours. Split wood bends better than sawn.

[lagspiller]

Nice to see photos of your project. I'll admit now that I did have some doubts the first time you mentioned your plan. But your questions were good, and when you got around to forming the keel it was clear you were really going to give it a shot. I was impressed, but still not confident. Now I am. The photos of your shop and the planning ooze craftsmanship. It will be very interesting following how your adaptations turn out.



Probably not all that much of a coincidence, being that Oselvers are from this rather small geographical area, but Onarheim, mentioned in the drawing you posted, is a town on a neighbouring island. Our building instructor is from there...

If your photos are current, I am just a bit ahead of you on my second build. Laid up the keel - stem assembly last saturday and will begin next saturday by cutting back & planing in the 'rolling bevel' (you guys called it something like that) from the 'T' on the keel to the stem. Then its time for the first garboard. The other guys in our build are way ahead of me.

Looking at your last picture... it appears you have already shaped the inboard end of your stem. But on the chance you haven't - it is easier to get the scarf right if you leave the final 10 cm square. Then plane it down after it is attached to the keel.

[pcford]

Lagspiller,

Do you have any insight on my Oselver? See post number 8. It is roughly 22 ft. It has but one thwart...there are bench seats fore and aft over the middle frames. I got it about thirty years ago...at the time it had a Marconi main...I assumed that was a latter day alteration, so I changed it to a sprit. Now I understand it was likely the original sail. It also had a ballast keel...I'm sure that was not orginal. The sheer plank; sheer clamp; top of the stem and sternpost were are rotten. I replaced them. It has been in storage for many years.

I am having Jay Smith...a local guy experienced in Norwegian boatbuilding replace at least the forward starboard garboard.

Thanks for any insight you might be able to give.

[tapsnap]

Heimlaga, I hope the stems don't creep over time. I'm not so worried about them doing so while I'm building the boat as there are 4"x4" posts either end of the boat, against which the stems are bound and there is downward pressure on the keel from the overhead bracing. However, once the boat is in the water they may want to move - I don't know. But there are other forces in the boat counteracting that tendancy. As far as I know steam bending a stem is an acceptable way of making a stem. I believe John Gardner talks about it in his book "building classic small craft" .

Lagspiller, I had no idea you were currently building another faering. That's great news. I will try to catch up to you over the next few days. That way I will be able to compare notes with you and it will give me a timetable to keep up with. This is great, you know, your posts really were the inspiration for my project. Thanks

[lagspiller]

Tapsnap - I haven't seen a steamed stem, but as far as worrying about it straightening out... I wouldn't be much concerned. The original stems are made i two pieces, glued and rivetted, but it is the pressure of the hull boards that is the real strength. With all the balanced tension they apply and the frames in place, I can't imagine the stems could possible straighten - even if they tried.

It is roughly 22 ft. It has but one thwart...there are bench seats fore and aft over the middle frames. I got it about thirty years ago...at the time it had a Marconi main...I assumed that was a latter day alteration, so I changed it to a sprit. Now I understand it was likely the original sail. It also had a ballast keel...I'm sure that was not orginal. The sheer plank; sheer clamp; top of the stem and sternpost were are rotten. I replaced them. It has been in storage for many years

.
I looked for a picture, but can't find it.
Boat sizes vary. Yours is on the big side, if it is færing, but not unheard of. The one I'm building now is 19'5''. I think the færing built specifically for bermuda (or marconi if you prefer) rig are generally longer than the sprit boats.

Yes, some are original with bermuda rig. In my experience, that is for the boats specifically built for racing. They point higher than the sprit classes and are a touch faster. These boats also have a deeper keel - which might very well be ballasted. That is generall screwed onto the permanant keel. Even with the adjusted keel, they require an active crew to balance. When at rest with just the mast in place, an empty bermuda boat heels over until the waterline is just under the gunnel. It looks quite wild.

[pcford]

I looked for a picture, but can't find it.
Boat sizes vary. Yours is on the big side, if it is færing, but not unheard of. The one I'm building now is 19'5''. I think the færing built specifically for bermuda (or marconi if you prefer) rig are generally longer than the sprit boats.

Yes, some are original with bermuda rig. In my experience, that is for the boats specifically built for racing. They point higher than the sprit classes and are a touch faster. These boats also have a deeper keel - which might very well be ballasted. That is generall screwed onto the permanant keel. Even with the adjusted keel, they require an active crew to balance. When at rest with just the mast in place, an empty bermuda boat heels over until the waterline is just under the gunnel. It looks quite wild.

Lagspiller...Here she is:




As I recall the keel extends below the garboards about 3.5 inches. (9 cm) As I mentioned, the boat originally had a ballast keel. It extended maybe 18" (.5 meter) below the bottom of the boat. My hazy memory...it was about 1973...recalls that the lead was about 100 pounds. I recall that the deadwood of the ballast keel was Alaska Yellow Cedar. If my recollection is correct, it is then unlikely that the ballast keel was original.

She does heel over quite a bit. However, one always feels safe...like resting in Momma's lap!

[lagspiller]

Ok... looking at the gunnel, I can't see any sign of a keip (oar-bedding). No marks visible in the photo and no widening of the gunnel where the oars are. That suggests it was built specifically for sail - probably a racing boat. They don't have oars - cause that stuff would only be in the way when hiked out, riding the gunnel in a gale...
The depth you mention for the sail keel sounds right, too. I don't know the present official measurement for the keel, but can ask someone in the oselver club if you get interested in 'extreme sports'.

[pcford]

Thanks, Lagspiller. The sheer clamps as they exist now are copy of the orginals...as best as I could manage. I replaced the sheer clamps and there were only one set of fittings for oars.

Do the sailing Oselvers have fore and aft bench seats like mine?

[tapsnap]

pcford, here is a picture of racing Oselvars that might answer some of your questions. I copied it from http://www.oselvarverkstaden.no/ It was taken by Vidar Langeland.



Their interiors appear to be quite different from a regular rowing and sailing Oselvar. They also look like they are larger.

In terms of the progress on my boat, I cut the scarf on the stems this evening and planed them to the correct angles. It wasn't really difficult getting them to fit but I am holding off gluing and riviting them as the temperature is going to drop to 14 degrees Fahrenheit (-11 degrees Celsius) tonight and tomorrow's high is will be 20 degrees. The glue I will be using is an epoxy especially for use on Oak and Teak but the lowest temperature it can be used at is 28F. My workshop will be like a meat locker tomorrow. I can try to warm it up or I can wait on gluing the scarf until it warms up.

[lagspiller]

pcford, here is a picture of racing Oselvars that might answer some of your questions.

Hehe... for all I know, I might be in one of those boats.
That's the fleet I used to race with.
Those are 8kvm sprit rig boats. They are generally about 18'.
Good shot of them. Pay special attention to the way the jib is attached. The forward stay swings on a boom, hinged at the mast. Opposite arrangment of a whisker pole. When running downwind, like these boats, the LEADING edge of the jib is swung outboard on the boom.

The bermuda rigged boats sail in a different class with larger sails. There is one in the same series of shots....
http://www.oselvarverkstaden.no/inde...d=27&Itemid=30
Click on the picture with the caption 'Segling'.

[pcford]

Lagspiller...
Thanks so much. I think we now know the provenance of my boat. She is a racing class boat originally with a Bermudan rig. I had a designer do a sprit rig...it is not the same as the sprit rig which I see in the photographs...however, it looks appropriate and works well. The biggest drawback is that we had to step the mast about 18 inches forward of the thwart. (To allow for the difference in center of effort between the sprit and and Bermudan rigs.)

I have forwarded this information along to Jay Smith.

[tapsnap]

Lagspiller,
Are you guys still using the urethane glue you were using last year for the scarfs? I remember you had a problem with it failing on the oak scarfs. You said it didn't really matter as the planking and the rivets did more of the holding than anything else. Does urethane glue even have any adhesive properties on the oak or did you use it for it's gap filling properties?
I'm feeling cautious and was wondering whether I should use Resorcinol. My scarfs are clean and tight but there is the problem of moisture and temperature. I can get the temperature higher by wrapping the joint in an electric blanket but do you know if the Resorcinol glue is moisture sensitive? ..... Anyone?

[Thad]

Resorcinol is waterproof but you need the heat. i think the old norse way used no glue in those scarfs, just the rivets and the swelling wood. The Controversies were strip built in Maine with resorcinol and they did all the fitting and gluing in the day and cranked the heat to 75F overnight with good success as far as I know.

[tapsnap]

I meant the moisture in the wood. This wood has only been air drying for a few months.

[emf]

I use sikaflex in my skarffs and in the laps to good effect.

[lagspiller]

We have used different types of glue. It doesn't really seem to matter too much once the boat is built because the rivets and planking are the real strength. As long as it holds until you get the boards on and the glue is waterproof I think it is not so important what you use. The first glue we used, and had most trouble with, was Tech7... comparable to a 3M product you guys knew... named something like 3M 5200. A bit stiffer than Sikaflex, but not 'permanant'. Most of us now use the polypropelyn glue. That works fine as long as the temp is high enough in the shop. I used a 'flexible' epoxy on my stem scarfs and the uretan/polypropolyn glue on the keel scarfs. Concidered resorcinal, but dropped it because of the colour band it would leave and the fact that I used up the 5 kg tin I bought for the first boat.

Our keel & scarf materials are more or less pulled right up out of the sea, scraped clean of shell & barnacle and put to use almost immediately. The keels that were shaped in june and first put to use in september are less true than the fresh ones...

[tapsnap]

Thanks Lagspiller and EMF, that reassures me. I will try to get the joints glued up this weekend. By the way, can you do me a favour and photograph the rolling bevel from several angles before you rivet on the first boards? And one other question; do you finish the rolling bevel completely and adjust the hals to it or are you making minor changes to the rolling bevel as you are fitting the hals?
Anyway, I've got to go now to make preparations for this winter storm that is about to hit us - lots of snow and wind.

[lagspiller]

I had to adjust the bevel after beginning to fit the first hals, but that was because I was too careful about taking off too much. Saw that immediately when I pressed the hals in place on the first fitting. Then I made it longer and let it run out to within a couple of mm of 0. That way you don't get a grope that will collect water. Once I knew how it was supposed to look, I finished it completely before moving on to shaping the garboard (hals).

You will see what I mean right away, so don't worry about it. Do what you think is right and then make the adjustment when you see how it works with the garboard.

I can make the photos you ask for - because I entirely dropped the shop today. Everybody else took a holiday, so I went christmas shopping instead.
You can do the rolling bevel with the keel in the strongback, but we have found it is easier to do if you take it out and turn it up-side down. Then you stand, looking down on the piece and have a lot easier access. But you need to have the bits glued together first and then help to turn it over.

There is a trick when gluing the stem to the keel. You don't need to get everything wedged perfectly in place now, but make sure the depths at the bow and stern are correct and they are straight. Wedge the bits in the strongback, attach your central string (put in a screw just below the scooped out bit under the top of the stem... I'll find a picture. Look below) and measure the height at a right angle above the keel/stem joint. Bow - 82 to 84 cm, stern 72 to 74 cm. This is important because it is the only thing in this process you cannot adjust later and ALL the other measurements depend on it being correct.



The second shot shows the real use of the notch - not just for placing the measuring string, but for clamping the stem. A couple of turn of rope and a winding stick...

[tapsnap]

So I finally got the stems glued to the keel. I still haven't finished the transitions so the backbone is not secured to the framing yet. Everything looks straight and true so far. I have found it difficult to work on this project over the past few days with all the holiday preparations, but I should be able to work on those rolling bevel/transitions between now and the New Year.

[lagspiller]

We are even. Everybody here has focused on family & Christmas so nothing is happening in the boatshop.
You are at the point where turning the keel assembly over and bracing it against the building framework makes it easier to work on the bevels. Untraditional, but effective.

One word of caution - if you have fastened the central string by tieing it around the stem as it appears, you might want to think again. That is the measuring point for everything. A secure point that cannot move is extremely important. The standard method is a screw with a slot, standing proud, with the string tied to the screw so it passes through the edge of the slot.

[tapsnap]

I tied the string on temporarily at the correct heights to see where they would fall on the stems. But thanks for the advise on securing that string. I have now taken the the whole assembly out and lay it on it's side to work on those transitions. When I picked it up I was surprised at how light the whole thing is. I'll work on one side today and finish the other side tomorrow.

[emf]

I cut a constant bevel along the upper part of the T keel and found a rolling bevel was not needed on my boat. You might want to wait and see how much your garboard will need to twist. I start with a pice of doorskin ply to help get the shape of the hood end and see how much twist is needed.

[tapsnap]

Thanks for the tip EMF. I will plane it as a continuation of the keel - without any roll then and adjust it using a door skin template, as you suggest.

[donald branscom]

I had to adjust the bevel after beginning to fit the first hals, but that was because I was too careful about taking off too much. Saw that immediately when I pressed the hals in place on the first fitting. Then I made it longer and let it run out to within a couple of mm of 0. That way you don't get a grope that will collect water. Once I knew how it was supposed to look, I finished it completely before moving on to shaping the garboard (hals).

You will see what I mean right away, so don't worry about it. Do what you think is right and then make the adjustment when you see how it works with the garboard.

I can make the photos you ask for - because I entirely dropped the shop today. Everybody else took a holiday, so I went christmas shopping instead.
You can do the rolling bevel with the keel in the strongback, but we have found it is easier to do if you take it out and turn it up-side down. Then you stand, looking down on the piece and have a lot easier access. But you need to have the bits glued together first and then help to turn it over.

There is a trick when gluing the stem to the keel. You don't need to get everything wedged perfectly in place now, but make sure the depths at the bow and stern are correct and they are straight. Wedge the bits in the strongback, attach your central string (put in a screw just below the scooped out bit under the top of the stem... I'll find a picture. Look below) and measure the height at a right angle above the keel/stem joint. Bow - 82 to 84 cm, stern 72 to 74 cm. This is important because it is the only thing in this process you cannot adjust later and ALL the other measurements depend on it being correct.



The second shot shows the real use of the notch - not just for placing the measuring string, but for clamping the stem. A couple of turn of rope and a winding stick...

Thats called a Spanish windlass.
"A couple of turn of rope and a winding stick...[/QUOTE]"

[tapsnap]

I finally got started on blending the stems with the keel this evening. I didn't get them finished but I have worked each face and the transition is beginning to look good. At first I was a little apprehensive, not knowing exactly how much to take off but it becomes clear as I keep working the areas what needs to happen. Right now I am simply using a 4 foot straight edge rule that I am holding against the bevel and bending it round the curve of the stem. That simple action shows me where I need to take off more and where I need to leave. In the next few days, I will work on a doorskin template to get an idea of the shape of the plank I will need to cut.

I am looking for rivets. I got some samples form "Faering Design" The roves are 1/2", 9/16" and 5/8". I think I like the large 5/8" ones. The only trouble is the nail heads for the 10ga nails are only about 3/8". Does anyone have a source for large roseheads? They only need to be about 2" long and 8ga would be fine but I would like to find some with heads at least 1/2" diameter - for no other reason than I like the look of them.

[tapsnap]

Continuing with the transitions between the stems and the keel this morning. I'm not sure how far up the stems I should take them and I'm not sure how deep the rebate is supposed to be. The picture shows them as a continuation of the keel, but like this, they appear to be awfully shallow. It seems to me that they would be too shallow to adequately hold a screw especially if there is no rolling bevel, just a continuation of the keel bevel. My stems are 4cm wide and the top of the keel, is 26mm before it "Ts out". Is this correct?

[emf]

In my(non-profesional) opinion you could leave the stem as is or continue the rebate all the way up to the sheer. In my boat and a lot of norse boats there is no rebate just a flat stem and the hoodends beveled to meet the keel and stem. You wan't the screws or nails to angle into the keel/stem. The piece on the lower part of the stem is a clamping aid.

Hope this helps.

[tapsnap]

Thanks EMF, I understand now.

[lagspiller]

Tap... that isn't the way we do it. As EMF says, the stem doesn't get any bevel / rebate. After we cut the T part of the keel symetrical (seen from above), we work on THAT alone cutting the rolling bevel. It runs out to zero (underneath the T) where the wide upper part of the keel ends. You are going to have extra trouble fitting the boards against the stem because you will have to from both the lip on the stem and the board. We do the opposite... the upper edge (inside edge) of the stem is rounded. Look at the plan for the stem cross section.

When fitting the garboard, it is first roughed out to shape and given a 2 cm bevel where it goes around the curve of the stem. Towards the midships end the bevel decreases evenly to about 1 cm as the board passes under the T and onto the rolling bevel.

Found a picture that might help

The T ends just under the support from above the boat. The T on this boat has almost been reduced to 0 and the final evening continues on in the stem for a few cm. After that, the top of the stem is rounded all the way to just under the central measuring string. You can also see the thickness of the T section begins to be reduced about 20 cm from the scarf - begins near the wooden 'hook' holding the garboard on the other side. You can also see how far the garboard passes the stem/keel scarf.

Another thing... remember to reduce the width of the keel along the bottom edge to the same 21mm you have along the outside edge of the stem...

[tapsnap]

Hmm, well I guess it will be OK. Lagspiller, I was a little confused when looking at the drawing you had sent me. The cross section labeled "Lat" appears quite far along the stem. I took that to indicate that there was a rolling bevel against which the inside face of the garboard was bedded and the edge of the garboard bedded against the flat face of the stem. What was unclear, was how far this extended before transitioning into the "Midtstrek"

I still am not sure what you mean when you describe the keel bevel thinning form about 20cm to the scarf. Are you putting a rolling bevel on that section or is that the same bevel as the rest of the keel and you are just tapering that section?

[lagspiller]

still am not sure what you mean when you describe the keel bevel thinning form about 20cm to the scarf.

I'll try again... Measured from the point where you have ended the 'T' cross section on the keel and about 20 cm towards midships on the keel (maybe a little more - doesn't matter as much as getting it even and gradual). In the drawing, the scarf is the 10 cm section. The 'T' ends at the midships end of the 10cm measure (bottom right in drawing). The point where the 'T' ends should be shaved off from underneath to within a few mm of the top edge. From that point you need a rolling bevel on the underside of the 'T' towards midships that runs out to full 'T' cross section width about 20-30 cm farther midships. If you look at the picture I posted, you will see that the 'T' is full thickness near the keel support in the top of the picture and evenly is reduced to a couple mm at the keel support in the bottom of the picture.

That shape is carried over on the låt for 10-20 cm as needed. It should go over to the rounded off cross section drawn several places as the låt begins to curve upward.

I guess that is where this question came up...

The cross section labeled "Lat" appears quite far along the stem.

The drawing would have been better if the arrow had pointed in the other direction. The trick is to end that cross section and go over the the shape in the large cross section floating at the top of the drawing. Looking at the drawing again, that would be somewhere slightly ahead of the word "skrue"... where the three lines drawn at the top of the scarf disappear and a new double line showing the rounding off, begins. See it?

From this point, the top edge of garboard butts up against the lower edge of the 1 cm rounded off låt and stem.

The lower edge of the keel-låt-stem tapers evenly from 21mm at the scarf to 13 at the stem.

Hope this was clearer.

[tapsnap]

Although I will have to work with the situation that I have now, it would be great if you could take a picture of the side view and possibly from underneath of this area.

[lagspiller]

I can do that when I get around making the bevel. Its been 20-25F in the boathouse for a while now and holiday modus activated weeks ago...
Will probably re-enter the normal world fairly soon.

I don't think you will have any problems with strength if you trim off and round the stem. You should probably take it down quite a bit no matter what you do - it will be hard eyeballing the fit of the board against the stem otherwise. But whatever works out easiest is the way to go.