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  1. #1
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    Default Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    I read a thread on WeldingWeb about an interesting boat. The guy is a sailor, seems to have researched boatbuilding well, and dove right in. He's building in welded aluminum lapstrake, and she's about planked up. I don't know how to post links, but if you go to WeldingWeb and look for posts by Zeyang, I think you'll find it.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Pretty cool!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    yeah he's got what it takes, & it appears he's building it mostly alone
    Boat Designer

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Seems like a neat idea, but I wonder about the economics of all that welding.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    There's a thread on SA cruising as well.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Always wondered if that was doable.

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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Seems he's been thorough and careful so far. I wish him well.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Do you do the welding from the inside or the outside?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Do you do the welding from the inside or the outside?
    (Donald Branscom answering )A boat hull should be all tacked together. Then the finish welding should be done on the inside first.
    All welding must be done evenly and starting in the center of the hull and work towards the ends. Both sides alternately at the same time. There can be some differences between welding aluminum hulls and steel hulls.
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Do you do the welding from the inside or the outside?
    Finish welding on the boat hull, after it is tacked together, starts on
    the inside and works from the center towards the ends. Working on both sides
    and back stepping the welds.

    Gilbert C.Klingel wrote the best book.
    "Boatbuilding With Steel: Including Boatbuilding With Aluminum."
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    This looks like an extreme of multi-chine construction. It does seem the total length of the welded seams reaches extremes--a significant drawback to the technique. I've seen single-chine derivatives of similar hulls what work quite well. I'm thinking that the welding rod alone would be a significant percentage of the material cost.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    yes Terry, can you give us an estimate of what it might cost, even just the hull plate & rods
    Boat Designer

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    This looks like an extreme of multi-chine construction. It does seem the total length of the welded seams reaches extremes--a significant drawback to the technique. I've seen single-chine derivatives of similar hulls what work quite well. I'm thinking that the welding rod alone would be a significant percentage of the material cost.
    Welding an aluminum boat does cost much more than steel.
    The equipment is more expensive.

    A boat hull has to be all tacked together and then fully welded inside first.
    Then the outside.
    Also the welding procedure is important.
    The welding should start in the middle of the boat and be worked towards each end.
    The welding needs to be welded port side then starboard alternately.
    With lapstrake both sides may have to be worked on at once.
    But there is a very good book written by Klingel about this.

    Aluminum can distort more than steel or stainless steel.
    As the aluminum weldment (hull) gets larger and larger it can
    take more heat to weld because the aluminum is giving off heat
    at a very rapid rate. That is why wire feed is best.
    It has the greatest heat input.

    Wire feed with a spool gun or with a drive unit with 4 roller feed wheels with push and pull system.
    All of this technical information can get extensive with aluminum.
    A huge discussion and learning curve.

    If I was doing this job I would consult with the large aluminum boat builders
    in the Pacific Northwest about
    equipment selection.
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Wonder if you could rivet and glue--they make Jaguars that way these days.

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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Wonder if you could rivet and glue--they make Jaguars that way these days.
    Ford bought 1/2 of Jaguar. So in retaliation, England bought 1/2 of American Airlines.
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    I'm not sure he's in China. His weldingweb info gives that as his location, and he uses a Chinese name and references. But he's a blue eyed white European, and his plan is to sail the boat to China.
    His thread shows pictures of other welded plank boats, hopefully he's getting good advice.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Thanks very much for pointing out this interesting project. I had never considered a lapstrake metal hull and I applaud the builder for thinking 'out of the box' and wish the project much success.

    Personally, my dream for uncommon metal construction is orgiami/strongall.
    No frames initially, the stiffness is in the compound curved shape developed from a flat plate (darned quickly!!!).
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/
    http://www.anchoryachts.com/strongyachts_strongall.php
    http://www.metalboatbuilding.org/php....php?f=38&t=49




    Last edited by George Ray; 12-07-2009 at 09:05 AM.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    I didn't check but is he using GTAW(TIG) or SMAW(Stick) welding?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewisboats View Post
    I didn't check but is he using GTAW(TIG) or SMAW(Stick) welding?
    HE who??.... If your talking about the Brent Swain design boat photos he is using the SMAW process (stick welding)
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    AH!...didn't think about MIG...we don't use it so it slipped my mind. If he goes cold the penetration won't be sufficient unless he backwelds it. Alum only has a 60% strength factor at the welds...hope he is using lots of filler wire and a good build up for his fillets.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    That origami looks like a Swain. He's the only guy I ever met built a boat faster than me. Rented a spot in a boatyard and launched a 32 ' er 1 month later (easy street). Took 3 months to build my34'strip woody.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    thank you Terry for working this out
    Boat Designer

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    That origami looks like a Swain. He's the only guy I ever met built a boat faster than me. Rented a spot in a boatyard and launched a 32 ' er 1 month later (easy street). Took 3 months to build my34'strip woody.
    It is a Brent Swain design.
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Sailing the Farm late september 2015

    Hi everyone!

    Another productive month and our boat hopefully soon to be in water.

    Farm news:

    The bee-seeason is finished for this year, each hive have got around
    20 kg, so now they are ready to have their well-deserved winter
    holiday for next 7 months. The potatoes is still in the soil, but we
    will harvest them pretty soon.

    Boat News.

    Still some days delays with the shipment of the boat to Oslo.
    The engine is ready to start soon. we just need a little work with the
    dry exhaust. Else it looks really good.

    All welding work outside the hull is finished. We will paint the
    underwater part of the boat with expoxy primer this week. Then start
    to tear down the boatshed. Soon our metal-lady will see the sun for
    the first time.

    We still look for potential crew for the first leg of sailing,
    especially if you have good knowledge of gaff-rig adjustment and
    sailing, we would love to hear from you. Also look for some last
    minute volunters to help clean up the farm for the winter. Please
    contact us if you have some spare time in october.

    Pictures of the month:

    a: Flagmaking lady working on even more guestflags. Still a little
    work until we have them all.
    b: engine is in and wired up. Just need some work on the exhaust part
    before its ready to push us up Amazon river and beyond.
    c: welding lady at work.
    d: making wooden box for binocular.
    e: welding up the locking mechanism of the main-hatch

    http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1443888308
    http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1443888317
    http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1443888325
    http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1443888334
    http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1443888343

    Love from Sailing the farm

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    In Bridgeport, Ct., there's a huge unfinished metal sailboat. Heading east on I-95, if you look south you can see it. I believe it's on the property of the local shipbuilding company. It's been there for years. The thing has got to be close to 100' long. Anyone know what it is?

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Jones View Post
    In Bridgeport, Ct., there's a huge unfinished metal sailboat. Heading east on I-95, if you look south you can see it. I believe it's on the property of the local shipbuilding company. It's been there for years. The thing has got to be close to 100' long. Anyone know what it is?
    It was started for the TYCO guy (who is still in jail?).

    Nice Frers design, 150' LOA....

    The interior joinery was almost all complete, boxed up in a few containers I believe...

    http://www.sparkmanstephens.com/yach...8641&curr_id=7

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    The professional sign-makers no longer use MDO but a hybrid class of MDO with a aluminium outer shealth bonded to the inner plywood. I have always considered that a lapstrake build could use this technique for at least the first few strakes in buiding a Oughtred type lap-stake build. It's still plywood to bond with epoxy but the outer veneer is a aluminium coating ply. WHY THE NOT. You would get the best of both techques. I would have gone for it if I had known of such a technique. Its expensive. Yea @ I'm quessing now, but I think he said 350$ a sheet. But what a bottom hull. Any thoughts?????

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    The steel boat shown above is a Brent Swain design. I built one.
    30 feet or 36 feet. Probably 36. Each plate is about 2,440lbs. 3/16 inch thick.
    I also helped to build two other 36 foot Brent swain boats.
    There is a CAD CAM steel boat designed by Gary Noble and now many others that are pre cut from pre primed plate. That eliminates a lot of sandblasting later on.
    The absolute best book on the subject overall is STEEL AWAY. Then CRUISING AS A WAY of LIFE by Thomas Colvin. A must read. Best book on Aluminum boats is by KLINGEL.

    The problem with the lapstrake metal boat being built is this:
    A lot of over lapping joints makes noise in the water.
    Lots of welding.
    Also more wetted surface=more drag.
    Corrosion can be much greater than steel.
    Aluminum condensates 3.75 times MORE than steel.
    To foam or insulate the aluminum is more expensive for the foam, because it must have a special coating first.
    If it is the newer aluminum for hulls (5356) or newer it will help as far as the corrosion rate.
    Cost is much higher to build the hull.
    My boat fantasy below: "Luckystar"
    Last edited by donald branscom; 12-07-2009 at 07:43 PM. Reason: add photo
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Quote Originally Posted by donald branscom View Post
    The steel boat shown above is a Brent Swain design. I built one.
    30 feet or 36 feet. Probably 36. Each plate is about 2,440lbs. 3/16 inch thick.
    I also helped to build two other 36 foot Brent swain boats.
    There is a CAD CAM steel boat designed by Gary Noble and now many others that are pre cut from pre primed plate. That eliminates a lot of sandblasting later on.
    The absolute best book on the subject overall is STEEL AWAY. Then CRUISING AS A WAY of LIFE by Thomas Colvin. A must read. Best book on Aluminum boats is by KLINGEL.

    The problem with the lapstrake metal boat being built is this:
    A lot of over lapping joints makes noise in the water.
    Lots of welding.
    Also more wetted surface=more drag.
    Corrosion can be much greater than steel.
    Aluminum condensates 3.75 times MORE than steel.
    To foam or insulate the aluminum is more expensive for the foam, because it must have a special coating first.
    If it is the newer aluminum for hulls (5356) or newer it will help as far as the corrosion rate.
    Cost is much higher to build the hull.
    My boat fantasy below: "Luckystar"
    hi,
    i just got informed about this thread.
    Im the guy building that lapstrake alloy boat and i can comment on this. 5183 with 4.5% Mg is very corrosion resistant. (more than 5356) so im not worried about this. There are many huge commercial crafts, offshore oil-rig installation etc which are build in marine grade alloy.
    Noise is solved with insulation. (which is same as for steel)
    No need to have special coating when install insulation. Ordinary
    insulationmats (like they use when building those floating offshore rigs for living quarters is OK)
    Cost of alloy is more than steel but if you add upkeep of steel the gap get much closer.. I avoid painting and sandblasting. Running bare alloy is perferctly ok.


    zeyang

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Quote Originally Posted by adam96 View Post
    It was started for the TYCO guy (who is still in jail?).

    Nice Frers design, 150' LOA....

    The interior joinery was almost all complete, boxed up in a few containers I believe...

    http://www.sparkmanstephens.com/yach...8641&curr_id=7
    I looked it up and anyone out there looking for a bargain, the ship yard will finish it for a mere $25 million. 150' aluminum sloop. Unbelievable.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Jones View Post
    I looked it up and anyone out there looking for a bargain, the ship yard will finish it for a mere $25 million. 150' aluminum sloop. Unbelievable.
    For me, the tough part to swallow is the $5 million annual budget to run it. Otherwise, I might get on board.....

    There are no bargains in yachting...

  32. #32

    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Newsletter February 2012. .

    Dear Sea Gypsies,

    Spring is slowly coming our way, This winter has been really nice
    compared to last winter. It has seldom been below -15, which is quite
    out of normal.

    We had a really nice christmas on the farm, with lots of friends and
    seagypies. This year Santa Claus had an australian accent. We tried to
    teach him the only one and important centence in norwegian - "Are
    there any nice children here" but in last minute he forgot - but the
    "kids" still got their presents. The small ones got proper
    vikinghelmets and dress of course.... What else for seagypses?

    Else we have been doing regular winter maintainance on the farm and
    been looking forward to the spring. The boat project is going forward
    working on small and big pieces on the boat. We have been doing some
    work on how to make a furnace to melt all that scrap aluminum into
    more useful stuff like portholes. Casting is not something new. People
    have been doing thise for ages. Hopefully we manage to make something
    out of brick run on propane or better firewood which we have plenty of
    up here. Any foundry and casting experience out there?

    Anyway, its quite busy up here now but dont forget to enjoy the early
    spring folks! .. and if you want to join our tribe please contact us!

    Pictures.

    a. Enjoy christmas dinner with friends and seagypies.
    b. A young seagypsy quite happy whith his christmaspresent - proper
    viking helmet!
    c. Out walking the mast. Even a mast need some fresh air these days!
    d. We want to duplicate these guys! Anyone with casting/foundry
    experience out there? We want to learn!


    a: http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1330274085
    b: http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1330274091
    c: http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1330274096
    d: http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1330274103

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Thanks for the update. I lost track of your log, and recently wondered about it. There are several threads on this forum about casting, try a google search for this site.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    There are two, aluminum planked, 50' Richardson motoryachts in Toronto built by Avro, the company that built the Arrow jet fighter. The planks are C-channel and the construction utilizes longerons and ring frames ala aircraft construction. The planks are riveted together at the flange, so no overlap and both vessels are in great shape after 50 years.
    Mike

  35. #35

    Default Re: Aluminum Lapstrake Colin Archer

    Newsletter April 2012. .

    Dear Sea Gypsies,

    Still some time until we are ready to put the seeds into the soil. Its
    more or less -5 degrees C during night last weeks but daytime is above
    zero.

    The days have been spent welding and welding and when we havent done
    welding we have spent time troubleshoot welding machines. They have a
    tendency to break down unfortunately. So we bought 2 more big
    machines. We also got hold of another ton of lead. There seems to be
    no end to how much lead we need for ballast.

    Ahh yes. We got more chickens on the farm. one of our hens found out
    we need some easter chickens this year and she missed by 2 days. Not
    bad. The small one is a little shy so its hard to take a picture
    without getting attacked by the angry mother.

    Today it will be traditional easter-dinner here on the farm with
    people from near and far. Wish you all fair winds and following seas
    and hope you all have a peacful easter.

    picture from last weeks.

    a: our chickens are enjoying longer and warmer days.
    b: two more welding machines arrived on the farm.. It seems we cant
    get enough welding machines.
    c: Our easter chicken arrived 2 days before easter.


    http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1333813538
    http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1333813545
    http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1333813551

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