Building 72' schooner in Viet Nam

[Lucky Luke]

To Chuckt and Rick:

The glassing overhead was not really difficult, after preparing each strip of glass, positioning it well, impregnating the wood first, then a second coat for the impregnation of the cloth, which then stuck on the hull without more difficulties than on the topsides.
There is, of course, a rebate that has been cut (about 1mm. deep and 10 cm. wide) so that each strip of glass overlaps the previous one, thus create a "structural continuity" of this sheathing, although this structural integrity only concerns itself, not really the hull whose rigidity is immense when compared to this "cigarette paper" thin sheathing (well: > 600 g/m2 still!).

[Lucky Luke]

Back after a month in France (the wine was good, thank you!).....

The painting is in full swing now, with the final fairing of the hull and the first undercoat of Jotun Polyurethane paint:





This final fairing still shows a (very few) little defects that will be corrected after the sheathing of the stem (with multiple layers of lighter satin) will have been done:



....and also the transom, which has got it's full sheathing now:

[Lucky Luke]

A lot of work has been done on the deck too, where the inside of the bulwark already has it's first top-coat, showing the nice finishing that has been done around the stanchions bases:



....and the inside of the poop-deck bulwark:



These low bulwarks are extremely rigid, and with the sheathing of the deck going up around the stanchions and inside of bulwark in a gentle curve, the minute movement that will occur when the boat is sailing will be "absorbed" by this curve. Then, would any serious damage happen, the high gloss paint will show cracks - if any - and where the repairs should be done so that no water infiltration occurs between the stanchions and the plywood deck. To prevent even further any water ingress into the deck plywood, one can see, if going back a few pages of this thread, that the plywood was kept away from the stanchions by about 5mm. the edge of the ply epoxied, and the gap filled with flexible polyurethane compound (from Sika, similar to 3M 5200).
This is to say that while the decision was made to keep this nice traditional aspect of visible stanchions, all precautions have been taken - and must be taken - to prevent deck deterioration as this is always a vulnerable part, the bulwark having to be able to withstand the bullying of some "a bit too friendly" fishermen boats, and or course the huge impacts of green water.

As already explained too, a 3cm. waterway will be kept between the inner face of the stanchions and the edge of the teak decking, for rain and deck-wash dirty water to be collected by as few flush deck scuppers that will discharge in the boot-top, while sea water will discharge through the slightly higher bulwark scuppers, this in order to avoid dirty streaks along this white hull by the dirty water.

All superstructures sides and skylight bases are being painted while the skylight teak sashes will be be varnished, using New Zealand "Uroxys" flexible polyurethane varnish, about which I have received highest recommendations for it's durability, and that I think should replace all these antique "Tonkinois" and other "Epifanes" classic ones that have caused all brightwork to be banned abroad many yachts that would have otherwise showed some lovely decorative varnished wood! Got to live with our time!

[RFNK]

Sacre blanc! Beautiful Luc!

Rick

[snow(Alan H)]

Hi Luke
Great to hear you have discovered Uroxsys - I have used its & its amazing - link below.

Cheers Alan

http://www.uroxsys.co.nz/marine.htm

Plus check out the finish on 'Rawhiti' who used uroxsys

http://classicyacht.org.nz/forum/vie...7&t=3&start=75

[bertho]

Luc,
finish coat will be pure white or little off-white ? (just to avoid a gelcoat molding confusion...:-) !
keep going... great to see progress again !
and the ballast ? can you find foundry willing to do the casting there ?
kenavo
cordialement
bertho
www.fusionschooner.blogspot.com

[Lucky Luke]

Plus check out the finish on 'Rawhiti' who used uroxsys

Yes Alan: Rawhiti - plus a few boat owners from "downunder" is one that convinced me to use this "Uroxys" varnish in lieu of the traditional ones.

After some twenty years in yacht maintenance on the "Cote d'Azur" (French Riviera) spending months of my life sanding varnishing, scraping it all of and doing it all again, and even-though I was every time marveled at the beauty of the wood after applying the last coat of "Spinnaker" onto the "Epifanes" build-up, I must confess that I swore to myself that I shall never have a boat with ANY bright-work....a promise I did not hold anyway!!!

[Lucky Luke]

Luc,
finish coat will be pure white or little off-white ? (just to avoid a gelcoat molding confusion...:-) !

"to avoid gelcoat molding confusion....GRRRRRRRR

....and the ballast ? can you find foundry willing to do the casting there ?

No! I am afraid we are going to have some fun all for ourselves with twenty tons of molten lead! Just five times the biggest casting I ever did myself....but a fraction of the "Mirabella" casting at Concorde yachts (some sixty tons if my memory does not fail me...)

[Sailor]

I think that keel pour deserves a thread of it's own. Then again, separating it from the rest of this incredible build would be disrespectfull as well. Guess you'll have to carefully photo-document the whole thing then do the pour thread up in addition to this thread!

[bertho]

Luc,
I saw the keel for farfarer (the second schooner from Nigel Irens for Franck Blair, at covey island ) have been done in two parts , bolted together, in fact a long lead ballast is not structural by himself ....
cheer's
bertho

[GARRBOSR]

now that the rebates and rabetts are figured out, How do you get the rebates sanded to the rite depths and widths to apply the next course flush ?

I keep beating myself for lack of proper verbiage and terminology and Ive been a carpenter cabinet bldr for 35 years, usually I just keep reading and answers come eventually

[GARRBOSR]

this is most incredible thread, watching and learning with total rapt attention and awe of your doings Luk

[GARRBOSR]

Jeramiah, perhaps when you are old and wise you will have learned much, in the meantime, perhaps and old saying here may help, " the only thing worth learning is what you learn AFTER you've learned it all,,,

Luk you have my rapt attention here

[GARRBOSR]

Ive been reading this for about a month from the beginning (on and off when I can, not the start of the project but the fourm post)and this is the most beautiful, the most educational and inspiring of any boat works I have ever put my eyes and gray matter to !! Luk you are a God

[GARRBOSR]

The material used in the T&G roofs and the rub rail looks so much like southern yellow pine but Im sure its somthing else, but what may I ask is it??

[GARRBOSR]

My sincere apologies Luke for screwing things up here and my ignorance in posting, I'll try your approach , better if you could maybe explain or show me the rite way in a private msg? i really would appreciate getting it rite, also would like to learn how to post pictures if your up to it,, tnx, Gary

[SV Papillon]

"

No! I am afraid we are going to have some fun all for ourselves with twenty tons of molten lead! Just five times the biggest casting I ever did myself....but a fraction of the "Mirabella" casting at Concorde yachts (some sixty tons if my memory does not fail me...)

Luke you may be interested in the concept used for Martha's new ballast pour. Schooner Martha if you go back in the archives it has a bit of detail on it, basically CNC plywood to a 3d model bolted together and coated with a ceremic glue of some sort.

Jake

[Lucky Luke]

now that the rebates and rabetts are figured out, How do you get the rebates sanded to the rite depths and widths to apply the next course flush ?

I thank you for your interest in this build, Garrdosr, but would humbly suggest that you review your way of posting. May I recommend that, when/ if you want to add something after some second (third, fourth, fifth....seventh in this instance!!!) thought, you simply edit your first post and add what you want to say instead of piling up post after post like this. Sorry Garrdosr: it simply makes you practically unreadable and impossible to reply bit by bit to your discontinued discourse. May I also add that some Webmaster forbid this practice since it causes encumbrance of the server...

Anyway, since you honor the men building this boat by your interest and praise of their work:
- If the thickness of the sheathing is 1mm., you simply cut down the rabbet by 1mm., so that the next piece will be flush with the previous one.
- The timber used for the T&G underlayer of the decks, bulwark planking and stringer is Siberian Larch.
- The engine is the drawing is a Caterpillar 3056. However, the engine that will be installed should be a Weichai WP6, 6.7 liters, 136 kW. (same size).This is appropriate for a seventy tons boat.

[onefastcobra]

Wow! That is gorgeous!!!!

[brad9798]

Be nice to GARBOSR, Luke ... sheesh.

That being said, this boat ought to be done by now ... what gives, sire?

B

[Lucky Luke]

Be nice to GARBOSR, Luke ... sheesh.

That being said, this boat ought to be done by now ... what gives, sire?

B

I am always nice with the "GARBOARD", Brad!

Yeah, yeah, yeah,...it's taking some time, you know! Surprisingly long time, for sure, but that's what is takes to get a good finishing!

The transom got he shape of its windows refined and a rebate cut for the 18mm. triplex glass that will be fitted in them, plus a bronze "grill" to brake the strength of the waves. Got to have something solid there!

Then the filler, and sanding, and filler....the usual work!






At the same time, the stem has got it's sheathing , fairing an all, and epoxy primer paint:




All that is terribly time consuming, extremely boring, scratching, stinking, hot but obliging to wear protections, but has to be done!

[Phil Y]

That looks like a huge pile of sanding dust! I really like the attention to detail-the deck drains going down to the boot top. The deck ply held off the stanchions. Really excellent work. This is a boat that will look good, for a long time.

[aledani]

Simply gorgeous !

[Lucky Luke]

Varnishing has now begun, using NZ Uroxys, which we can expect to last much longer than the old Epifanes and other Tonkinois, if judging by the many reports I did read about it.

It starts by sanding (again sanding!) the bare teak that has been exposed to the elements for a few months now:



Then applying the clear primer:



On this aft face of the wheelhouse, the primer enhances the strong difference in wood colors: we were at the very end of our stock of timber and just wanted to finish that part....not a very nice matching there, with some exceptionally clear just besides some exceptionally dark!!! This is what natural materials do, anyway, and it is going to even a bit with age, but still show these differences. Oh, hell: it will stay so!

The skylight sashes are being used as test for the clear varnish then, and show the beautiful color of the teak:





This varnish is thick, not that easy to apply, and the very last top coat will probably have to be done by air gun instead of by the (not very good!) brushes. At the moment, though, what matters is to protect what has been done.

[Lucky Luke]

In parallel, the hull is now very smooth, all white excepted the keel and deadwood that still need some work. The deawood is to be made over a foot deeper to line-up with the (future.....!) ballast.
Now, anyway, it is nearly ready for the first polyurethane topcoat that will protect the epoxy undercoat, as well as first coat of anti-fouling (not for launching, but to protect the undercoat too), and more spectacular, the Navy Blue boot-top! It will start looking like a hull, then, not a hulk!



But working on the boat is not the only occupation there: the ground level is being raised to make it just that bit above the highest tide level. A lot of materials that is, that needs even compacting, but also moving the (heavy!) machines whose concrete bases height is going to be raised too, the stock of timber, etc... Big work! One day, perhaps, there will be a concrete slab on it...???

[snow(Alan H)]

Varnishing has now begun, using NZ Uroxys, which we can expect to last much longer than the old Epifanes and other Tonkinois, if judging by the many reports I did read about it.
This varnish is thick, not that easy to apply, and the very last top coat will probably have to be done by air gun instead of by the (not very good!) brushes. At the moment, though, what matters is to protect what has been done.

Do u know u can thin it? they sell a special thiner that makes a big difference to the application. Peter Brookes the boat builder on the restoration of the yacht Rawhiti thinned it with great results.

[Lew Barrett]

Looking very, very good. If there are flaws they are not visible in the pictures. Anyway, only the finish coat shows

[Boston]

nice job Luke

[Soundman67]

that Uroxsys looks interesting. From what I have read its a competitor to Coelans? But about a little more than half the cost?

[Lucky Luke]

Do u know u can thin it? they sell a special thiner that makes a big difference to the application. Peter Brookes the boat builder on the restoration of the yacht Rawhiti thinned it with great results.

Thank you for that information, Alan.
In their technical Data Sheet, they say clearly that no thinner is required for brush application. However, specially with the hot, wet conditions we are having here, the application is difficult, and some thinner would be welcome. The only thinner that is accepted and mentioned in their website is simply Xylene.

[Lucky Luke]

that Uroxsys looks interesting. From what I have read its a competitor to Coelans? But about a little more than half the cost?

I did ask a couple of years ago to some "superyacht" bosuns and varnish specialists on the very high luxury yachts on the French Riviera what they thought about Colean. Few only knew about it and had tried it, but they did not like it! They said it was giving a "plastic" feeling and look and stuck to traditional varnishes. Since, for many, that is how they make a living, it does not bother them much if it has to be redone on and again!!!!!

Although being of the same family chemically, the reports I have had as well as discussions with the people at Uroxys to who I reported the comments I had about Colean, all showed that this product is different. This, they told me at Uroxys, is due in part to the colored primer Colean wants people to use, while on many timbers, like teak, Uroxys is to be used with clear primer and their "Marine alipathic clear gloss topcoat".

Direct reports from owners of Rawhiti or Ngatira were enough to convince me about this product. If it can stand so well the scorching NZ summer sun, it will be fine in Vietnam!

[Soundman67]

If it can stand so well the scorching NZ summer sun, it will be fine in Vietnam!

I am thinking the same thing for Vancouver Canada.

[brad9798]

Looking, good Luke!!!

B

[Dannybb55]

Why did they glue her together? Do they want to split the joints and crack the planking? How will you change out a plank or replace a busted Frame?
Sweet lines, just the same.
Danny Nye

[Lucky Luke]

Why did they glue her together? Do they want to split the joints and crack the planking? How will you change out a plank or replace a busted Frame?
Sweet lines, just the same. Danny Nye

Hi Danny,

Sorry, but I keep being amazed by how these obsolete thoughts stay alive in spite of the fact that we have modern glues allowing building methods very different from the centuries old plank on frame construction.

During second world war, wooden, all glued bombers were some of the most successful airplanes. Today, at least 20% of the joints on the commercial airplanes you are flying in are glued....and over 50% for the new ones. Still, nobody questions "how do you change a part of the shall, how do you change a rib...?".
In boating, not only have we had cold molded or strip planked boats with laminated frames for decades, using first resorcinol (very good in lamination but 80% failure in cold molding! Yes!) and now far better performing epoxies, but 95% of ALL the pleasure boats are basically entirely glued: they are called Glass Reinforced Plastic!!! Not to mention that nearly all the wooden masts are glued, etc....etc....

In old, traditional plank on frame construction, where the whole boat relies on thousands of fastening, and where all the elements move constantly relative to each or within themselves through drying/ absorbing water, each of these elements, although participating together in making the whole structure, can be considered independent of each other. A frame will get it's own local stress, as well as a plank, etc...and a repair (damages and accidents can always occur!) will include replacing this or that specific part that has been damaged while its close neighbor will have been unscathed.

In modern, all glued construction, one has to consider the whole hull and deck, the planking together with the frames and other structural element, as not a part, but a sector - or an area - of the whole. A local stress, then, would affect a small area very severely, and the damage gradually diminishing further from the central area. There is then nothing such as a broken plank or frame. It can be an area in the planking, eventually together with it's associate stiffener (frame), more or less deep into its lamination.

The repair is then just like in a FRP boat. I know that wooden boat lovers do not like this comparison, but like it or not, a modern wooden boat construction is a composite: fibers and glue, and I shall even go farther: wood itself is a composite. What is different from plank on frame is that the whole boat, whose all the elements are intimately united together by gluing, can be considered as a whole, nearly homogenous piece of wood. A repair will then constitute of an elimination of the damaged area, whose damage is less and less severe the farther we are from the center of the damage. Of course, this can be extensive, and reach a major proportion of the boat...up to the point where she is not worth repairing. Repairing the planking will mean opening a large area of the outer layer, then a smaller one deeper into it, etc.... If the damage extends to structural elements, the same will be done, taking off one layer of lamination, then a shorter one etc....and then re-building in the reverse sequence. The result will be, if properly done, as homogenous as before the damage.

One thing that is true, however, is that a local damage will lead to repairing a much larger area than in plank on frame construction. Will also need better working conditions: one can replace a few planks and frames somewhere on a beach using what piece of wood he can find, and whatever fastening, but modern construction will require correct conditions, otherwise it can't be done - or it will only be a temporary, fragile patch. In the other hand, there will be no need of heavy machinery nor large pieces of timber: just the small, thin pieces that will constitute the lamination.

A second thing to be considered, is that the mechanic of the material that constitutes a modern wooden boat construction is entirely different form that of a lone, non encapsulated piece of wood. One basic concept of the epoxy glued construction is that the wood will retain the (remarkable) mechanical properties of dry wood. Asking such a question as "do they want to split the joints and crack the planking?" is nonsense: one has to consider that there is, simply, NO joint! Once one gets the grasp on this concept, he will look at this material that is wood-epoxy composite in a totally different way.

[Lucky Luke]

I am surprised that my here-above post about wood being "composite" has not generated a loud outcry from the most traditionalist wood lovers here!

Anyway: the world goes on!

At the yard, the hull sheathing + fairing has been done to near perfection, including underwater. She's going to have her "underside" neat and clean like a racer!



This has allowed to mark the waterline, for reference and for the pleasure with a strip of "fine-line": nice to see the "brown duck" turning into a white swan said the owner, Derek!



The transom windows looks "nice and proper", with their shape now rectified! It will be quite something watching the stern wave - and other braking waves! - while comfortably laying on the aft stateroom bed :



Besides the work on the boat herself, installation works continue. She spar making shed, a long (30m.) side extension to the main shed, has been entirely closed and insulated and will be air-conditionned in order to give the best conditions for gluing the spars and other important items. Will be more comfortable working there too than in the sometimes scorching heat!!!

[Sailor]

What a project.....

[Lucky Luke]

The work continues on the deck too.

The whole upper part of the wheelhouse has got a few coats of Uroxys varnish, in order to be protected from the rain (and the sun) that seem to like entering this shed freely: rain goes right through the whole length!!!



A nice job which had been delayed while the timber had been ready for a long time is the massive teak capping rail on top of the bulwark.

The work begins by cleaning thoroughly, and then applying the SiKa primer on both surfaces to be glued:



The capping rail is then clamped in place while the flexible Sika 252 (as indestructible as 3M 5200) cures. The scarfs between the pieces of teak is glued wit this adhesive too, and when the time will come to "caulk" the deck the joint will be opened just like between the teak planks on deck and filled with the black Sika 290 DC. Besides being easier than making a perfect hair line scarf in such massive timber, doing like this has the advantage that, would there be any movement of the wood or of the boat, the flexible joint will not crack, even when varnished with the also flexible Uroxys.



After gluing, the tedious (but nice smelling!) task of sanding perfectly fair the capping rail is done using long-boards like for the hull:



....followed by the application of the varnish: looks absolutely gorgeous!!!

[WX]

Quite a ship you've got happening there Luke.

[RFNK]

Really looking fantastic Luc!

Nice explanation of modern lamination methods too! This is the way to build a bullet- proof boat.

Rick

[Duncan Gibbs]

The ship is looking beautiful Luke! I'll be interested to hear reports on the Sika and Uroxys varnish and really hope to get to NZ to have a look at it at close range.

I am surprised that my here-above post about wood being "composite" has not generated a loud outcry from the most traditionalist wood lovers here!

I think the thing here is choice: If you choose a method which is traditional then you can expect the boat to work and age in one particular way. If you choose a composite method then expect a different result. I see benefits and drawbacks with both techniques. I also see problems when one tries to retrofit a traditional boat with newer techniques when you have a possibility of making an existing problem worse by encapsulating it and making it's repair that much more difficult.

[David Carnes]

Still watching and marveling at the great work. Most here I'm sure have been to the bluenose site. Soon to be cradled into the water. With the possiblity of a new camera to watch the mast stepping amd rigging. But they could use a wee bit of help.

Nova Scotia Web CAms is asking for your support! They are able to cover launch and the final stages of rebuilding at Lunenburg Foundry
with their new EventCam. Please consider a donation if you would like to make this happen. As an incentive and as a thank you, the two
largest contributors will receive a pen handcrafted from Bluenose II wood by artist Jason Cullen of One Stop Wood Shop.
Check it out here
http://www.novascotiawebcams.com/sou...-eventcam.html

and a new 48' schooner recently launch in Lunenburg as well.

http://www.doryshop.com/schooners.html

[0maha]

I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread. What an awesome build! Marvelous stuff, and very instructive!

[Paul Montgomery]

There must be a lot going on at the boat yard, 'cuz there's NOTHING happening here ;-)

[Lucky Luke]

There must be a lot going on at the boat yard, 'cuz there's NOTHING happening here ;-)

Due to some reasons that will not be developed here, nothing much has happened in the yard either, but works should resume soon.
Thanks for your interest.

[Paul Montgomery]

Thanks for the reply back. And actually I wouldn't call it "interest" so much as "addiction"!

[aeophylus]

Dear Luc

Congratulations on your most amazing boat build which I have been following on and off in the last year. My interest further heightened when I visited Vietnam for the first time to visit my wife's home country from where her family escaped by boat some 30 years ago to land up in Australia.

In relation to boats, I've been a bit of a wooden boat nut myself having first learnt to sail in an old wooden 1937 McGruer Dragon which I bought in Scotland and had a darn fine time in her- remembering fondly how I'd keep warm by the frequent pumping to dry her bilges.

When I arrived in Australia, I went and bought myself a 1935 36ft Fred Shepherd Cutter 'Eila' that had lived in New Zealand which I had sailed over to Western Australia via the Bass Straits. She is up on the hard now awaiting a mega shed to built around her to be properly restored . But in the meantime, I have been dreaming to have an Alfred Mylne design built - of which the plans are easily available. The hull built via your method of strip planking using glue as oppose to epoxy( ouch expensive) sounds most ideal.

Luc, I would love to visit your boat when we visit Vietnam next - within 6 months and wondering if that's OK.

regards Kin

[Lucky Luke]

The hull built via your method of strip planking using glue as oppose to epoxy( ouch expensive) sounds most ideal.

Luc, I would love to visit your boat when we visit Vietnam next - within 6 months and wondering if that's OK.

regards Kin

You would be most welcome anytime, Kin

Concerning PU glue vs epoxy: one must be aware that the performance of this glue is far lower than epoxy and less and less suitable the smaller the boat, big ones being much more forgiving for small size defects. PU glue is also far less forgiving as any thickness of the gap will result in it "foaming" loosing all resistance. However, the economy is considerable and if the joints are VERY good, also will be the result.

[P.L.Lenihan]

Soixante huit?! C'est impossible Vous avez beaucoup trop de vigueur et de l'endurance .... en fait ...... plus que certains hommes ont à 48! Quel est votre secret?



Joyeux Anniversaire Luc!!



Cheers!



Peter

[chuckt]

Your summary of composite boat construction sounds spot on to me. I think you did not get any lip about it because you didn't say one was superior to the other: you just described what composite building honestly is.

Beautiful build! This is one of the threads I always drop in on.