Building 72' schooner in Viet Nam

[Raka025]

Luke,

Would you wetout your CSM and than screw your ply over it or do you let the CSM cure and than re-epoxy than add the plywood?

[Lucky Luke]

Would you wetout your CSM and than screw your ply over it or do you let the CSM cure and than re-epoxy than add the plywood?

Raka,
You will see this more in detail on page 7 of this thread.
Since only the last, very thin ply impregnates with epoxy, it is not necessary to really pre-impregnate before assembling, and absolutely not let the epoxy cure which would oblige to sanding before continuing the work, so the whole operation is done in one go. We first impregnate the underlying solid wood, then wet-out the CSM, slightly wet the underneath of the plywood and put it on, guided to it's precise final position by a couple of long nails with heads cut off. The excess epoxy - or air pockets - gets out through the holes of the previously done dry-fit (all screw holes are pre-drilled and dusted off, which would not be possible anymore with the epoxy + CSM ). As the epoxy destroys the binder of the CSM, a very light CSM or cloth on top of it keeps it in place while wetting-out. The intent in using CSM instead of cloth in-between is that it can (slightly) migrate and fill the larger spaces. Quite theoretical, I reckon!!!

[kazeai1969]

Still lurking Luc....beautiful!

[Lucky Luke]

Not really an update....but there are some interesting pictures taken on the yard on Duncan Gibb's thread/ people and places/ "Saigon Sojourn", including some pics I would have never thought of posting...like the "canteen" or.... "The Clock"!!!

[Duncan Gibbs]

Hehe! Thanks Luc! I should put them here as well! I found the whole atmosphere of the yard quite inspiring: It's all those little quirks that you'd never find in any other kind of workplace.

It was terrific to meet you and your wife and awesome (one time I think it appropriate to use this overused word) to see the schooner coming into being. Just breathtaking!

[Columbus]

Luc,
I am looking for a boatyard/sawmill to purchase timber for a 30m motor-yacht to be built abroad.
Ideally timber is prefabricated.
Any contacts? Thanks and greetings

[Baltimore Lou]

Columbus,
Just a shot in the dark here, but I think you're going to be flooded with requests for more specific information. Also perhaps to put this request in the "Resources/Product Search" subhead in order to avoid thread drift. Just a guess.

[Lucky Luke]

We had the visit of Rick (aka RFNK) yesterday, who certainly took much prettier pictures than I with his professional camera, but here is some of of the rather slow progress, due to the finishing of a couple of ugly plywood "Pelican" dinghies that the boys have been asked to build. Don't expect me to post pictures of these shoe-boxes here!!!

Essentially: the edge of plywood is now protected all around the roof, specially the corners. Also the various skylight sashes are getting some last finishing touch-ups:




The underneath of these sashes have a groove on the underneath for a round rubber gasket (fourth side groove not done yet on this pic) that will be compressed by a protruding brass flat-bar set into the skylight base. With the stability that the strong epoxy gluing gives, and with proper closing devices (that will have to be made), these skylights "should" be perfectly watertight. Condensation water from under the glass is collected by a separate trough.




Here is the almost finished skylight that stands on the roof:




The deck now looks a bit less bare . Each side of the on-deck skylight will be the cradles for the dinghies:

[Sailor]

Could you sketch up what those dinghy chocks will look like? Or should I wait till they're in to see? Sounds like an interesting project. HMMM Something to hoist in for my good ideas folder....

[Lucky Luke]

Inside, a "fascia" now hides the edge of the wood and plywood roofing:




Looking gradually better and better. This skylight is above the central corridor between the two guest cabins. Still missing are the four small hatches over these cabins, and the portholes of course:

[Lucky Luke]

Could you sketch up what those dinghy chocks will look like? Or should I wait till they're in to see? Sounds like an interesting project. HMMM Something to hoist in for my good ideas folder....

I shall post the design.... when it is done, if you don't mind ! Anyway: nothing more than the perfectly classic, removable ones, for upright or upside-down dinghies positions (unless someone wants jet-skis )!
Much to do before that!

[Lucky Luke]

I am looking for a boatyard/sawmill to purchase timber for a 30m motor-yacht to be built abroad.
Ideally timber is prefabricated.

We could perhaps do that here for you...but this is a non-commercial forum, so could you PM me please?

[RFNK]

I feel very privileged to have spent a day with Luc, owner Derek and the work crew exploring this truly magnificent project. It's a fantastic experience to step through the hole in the wall that surrounds the shed in Vung Tau and be confronted with this massive craft:






The yard's a busy place but everywhere you look there's evidence of quality work. Luc's a bit disparaging in regard to the little sail trainers that the yard is also building but I thought these simple little boats looked terrific - I'd be fairly proud to knock one out:






But the overwhelming impression I gained from the schooner was that this is an uncompromising build - everything is rock solid and the workmanship is superb:





Rick

[RFNK]

At ground level, the boat's surrounded by a jungle of props and scaffolding and the fine lines of this beautiful yacht are overshadowed by the obvious volume, weight and sheer strength of the hull. The planks are massive but they look like marquetry against the huge keel and deadwood:







Up on deck though, the long, fine lines are much more obvious. You can see straight away that this boat is going to fly - anywhere! The bulwarks and deck are already formed up now, with only the capping rails and the various layers of glass and teak to be added soon, so I was able to imagine fairly easily how it's all going to look but still see how it's all being put together. With much of this area still exposed, the quality of the workmanship and the strength of every joint and component is on display:










Rick

[RFNK]

Down below, the available space is extraordinary - especially for someone used to a Folkboat - no helmet required here:





Rick

[RFNK]

Luc and Derek have a great work crew and I really enjoyed catching some insight into the sharing of craftsmanship and ideas that are bringing this project to fruition. Thanks Luc, Derek and crew for a wonderful opportunity and a great day!









Rick

[Larks]

Terrific photos Rick, particularly that last one, a keeper for the pair of them I'm sure. I'm very envious, I'd love to spend quite a bit of time going over that boat and seeing just how they are doing everything.

[Eric D]

Wow....

speechless, Rick those Rosewood Knees....Luke, I mean, wow.....

thanks.

[Lucky Luke]

Having seen previous photos from you I knew, Rick, that you were going to do some very nice shots! Thanks for posting them.
Was nice to meet you too, and welcome any time you may go to HCMC again
Luc

[Duncan Gibbs]

I can only restate what a terrific experience it was to visit the boat. It would have been so much better had we had your company on the day Luc, so I'm a little jealous of you Rick! But we still had a great time crawling over the ship.

Quite an experience stepping through that little door eh Rick!

At work now, (on my lunch break ) but I'll post some of my shots here later.

[Larks]

Luc, I've been going back through the thread looking for the shots of the deckhead paneling being made up, I thought I'd seen some shots of how the boys shaped the tongue and groove to stop just short of the deck frames the way they do so that there's no gap above the frames. Or was I dreaming? No need to go looking yourself, but could you just let me know if I'm wasting my time looking further??
thanks, Greg

[Lucky Luke]

...I thought I'd seen some shots of how the boys shaped the tongue and groove to stop just short of the deck frames the way they do so that there's no gap above the frames...

Yes Larks: to machine the underneath of the deck planking all the way long and leave a little "hole" in way of the beams is something I like to avoid. Instead of that, planks are first dry fitted, and the position of the beams marked from inside:




After that, deck planks are removed and routered. Here it's with a shape called in French a "grain d'orge" (I don't know the English name...I think a "bead" or something like that) and a bevel on the opposite side - but it could just as well be simply a bevel on each side - and this only in between beams, more precisely short of the beams by 25mm. The tongue and groove itself is of course not concerned and machined all the way. The purpose of this routering is not only decorative, but does what the Italians call "une rompa de lacatura", which means that if a crack in the paint occurs between planks due to movement of the wood, this crack will not be a very visible, irregular crack but a straight one in the bottom (and in the shadow) of the groove:






Later, a small removable molding, 25 x 25mm., pre-painted, will be nailed (with invisible nails in the two small grooves) all along the beams and other structural parts which will ensure a crisp joint between the painted planks and the varnished beams every time they are re-painted/ varnished. This molding was also used to hide small electrical wires....but that is now forbidden (we might cheat, though ):




The same work is done under the roofing.

[Allison]

Luke,
I've enjoyed watching all the beautiful little details coming together. I've learnt so much following this thread. Thank you for all your effort documenting this project. A master class!

[Lew Barrett]

Spectacular. Thank you for the photos Rick.

[Duncan Gibbs]

As promised I'll add a few of my shots here of things that haven't been shown here. As you might imagine on a build like this there are so many parts to the boat and all have been exquisitely fashioned and fixed together:





And there are also the lovely big anchor tools that the yard has to play with:





And the great steam box set up:



Watching these two guys very carefully perfect the surface of a single timber component left me feeling that the west has given up on taking the time just to do something right:

[Duncan Gibbs]

Then there's the workplace...

Here's the canteen with something that smelled rather nice being cooked up on the little gas cooker:



The best place to escape the heat of a summer midday:



Clocking on and off is a pleasure:




As Rick said Luc doesn't like these boats. The yard was also producing these burdensome prams called Pelicans for sail training. Considering there really isn't any sail around HCMC I could see more sailing vessels would be a welcome addition to the scenery. They're very stoutly built to say the least:



Unfortunately my battery died about half an hour into the visit there as I'd used the camera for the previous few days and had rattled off about 250 shots just travelling down the Saigon River to Vung Tau.

Sigh... Want to be back in VN!

[Eric D]

Thanks Rick and Dunc for the extra photos.

Luke, I like the details of the groove on the ply, very nice. THanks.

[Lucky Luke]

Nice to have friends helping in keeping this thread alive and posting their artistic pictures!

The work at the moment is finishing the four small hatches that are on the roof. With the "Dorade" ventilation boxes and the handrails, that is all what there will be on this roof.
Their teak base is not glued on the roof yet (which will be done only after the sheathing, onto which they will rest) but are all assembled and dry fit on the roof:




For those who may wonder how an invisible dove tail assembly looks like:




....which gives that when joined together:




Then, the sashes of these hatches are also assembled, but with a different assembly, showing the end-grain this time (like all the other skylight sashes) simply because it is the strongest we can make. Mind that there is a lot of people who LOVE sitting on the corner of a half-open hatch!!! Right now, this is all messy with the epoxy, no matter how carefully one scrapes the excess, but will be OK after trimming and sanding!

[Allison]

More good pics! Thanks Luke!

[donald branscom]

Just a little correction -and reality check.

You said, "We had the visit of Rick (aka RFNK) yesterday, who certainly took much prettier pictures than I with his professional camera, but here is some of of the rather slow progress, due to the finishing of a couple of ugly plywood "Pelican" dinghies that the boys have been asked to build. Don't expect me to post pictures of these shoe-boxes here!!!

Should be "that the MEN have been asked to build." not boys.

[RFNK]

Luc'll answer this but I'll chip in anyway. Firstly, there's at least one female member of this great crew. I think Luc's picked up a bit of Aussie slang here which probably doesn't sit well in the US and Canadian context where a reference to a non-Caucasian as `boy' has derogatory connotations. In Australia, and there are very many Australian operations in Vung Tau and Ho Chi Minh City, the workers on just about any project, are typically referred to as `the boys'. It's even common to hear the women refer to themselves as `just one of the boys' when they work in such a crew. In businesses where more of the workers are female, the workers will often refer to themselves as `the girls'. Australians very frequently refer to their own social group as `the boys', `the girls' or `the girls and boys'. Having visited the site, met some of the crew, and talked quite a bit to Luc and the owner about the whole operation, my impression is that Luc has great respect for the crew working on this project and would never use a term like `boys' if he felt that this demeaned them in any sense.
Rick

[Lucky Luke]

What Rick said, just that it is like this in many more places than just Australia...!
In Vietnamese, there is "gai" or "nu" for girls/ women and "trai" (pronounced "chai") or "nam" for boys/ men, plus the very many words indicating the place in the family. However, when addressing each other, we say "anh", or "ong", or "tchou" (=younger - or older - brother, or "uncle"). Personally, if I address anyone in English, I always say "Mister so-and-so", but no-one would take offense if I say: "Hi, boys!" instead of my (actually usual) "hello gentlemen".
Then, Donald, while you (seem to) impose what you think is language (and moral) rectitude, I will inform you that, for a French person, to refer to men and women as "males' and "females" is ridiculous and offending, even obscene, since male/ female is used strictly and only to indicate the sex of animals!!!
You see: different countries, different ways, but just do not say " should be" when you should have said "shouldn't it be?"

[AlanL]

Not just Australians. It is common in New Zealand and Britain as well. From the tenor throughout this whole thread there can be no way I can see that Luc has anything other than the greatest respect for his crew.

[RFNK]

I agree. I think Donald is right to raise this point though. In a North American context, the term used would be quite inappropriate and should be challenged.

Just reading Luc's later edit above, I should add that all the Vietnamese I know would find this whole discussion either confusing or quite funny.

Luc's in a bad situation there in Vung Tau - he gets his English from Aussies, Kiwis and Scots, and his Vietnamese from southerners Oi roi oi!!

Rick

[WX]

It is always a pleasure to visit this thread, I love the detail on the knees.

[Allison]

Calling a group of workers, especially in an industrial setting, in Australia or even in the States, "the boys" or "the guys" is really common.
I think Donald is being a little bit too precious here.

People use those terms all the time in an inclusive way, a familiar form of address that shows respect by removing the archaic barriers that used to have bosses referred to as Sir or Mr. as a matter of course.
I heard it regularly used in the States and no-one had any agenda when it was used, so it's not just something that's an Australian or Pommie thing.
It was not in a gender divide either as when I worked in mainly male dominated industries it wasn't that anybody was introducing gender into the equation.
I know groups of younger women who address their group as "the Guys".
Especially among younger people there is not that agenda that Donald has grasped to.
Luke definitely has never come across as someone who has anything but the highest respect for the people that work for him!
Time for people to loosen up about some of this stuff and look at the individuals involved in the actual setting.

[WX]

I've noted that here in Australia, guys can be a group of males, females or mixed.

[HarryH]

Good grief..

Parsing sentences, correcting references to others (especially when such references are made in warm or friendly manner), randomly ascribing lack of consciousness or insensitivity to same, etc. are a sad and morbid result of so-called "Political Correctness".

Context, context, context. It seems this thread demonstrates Luke's relationship to his co-workers is based to a large degree on mutual esteem.

[RFNK]

I'll jump in again before Luc does: let's get back to the boat ....
I'm looking forward to seeing how the sheathing process will be performed. Every time I've worked with glass and resin I've ended up covered in it and the last thing I'd think of doing would be taking a camera near it! Luc, will you do the sheathing before gluing on those capping rails?
Rick

[Peerie Maa]

Luc's in a bad situation there in Vung Tau - he gets his English from Aussies, Kiwis and Scots, and his Vietnamese from southerners Oi roi oi!!

Rick

The poor boy, he really is stuffed.

[Lucky Luke]

....let's get back to the boat ....
I'm looking forward to seeing how the sheathing process will be performed. Every time I've worked with glass and resin I've ended up covered in it and the last thing I'd think of doing would be taking a camera near it! Luc, will you do the sheathing before gluing on those capping rails?
Rick

We are going this morning to see what Fiberglass is available and suitable for the various surfaces and thicknesses of sheathing. Some will have to be double bias, some can be ordinary woven cloth, etc... The monsoon is now changing, and we better do this work while it is already dry but not too hot yet.

The deck and base of deckhouses (and skylight) will be done first, as well as the inside of the bulwark, this only going up a few centimeters. We shall have first to do the complex shapes, like around stanchions for example, and sand this gradually for the junction with next sheathing. Excepted these gradual overlaps, there will be only one layer of cloth. While "fiberglassing" the small areas is delicate and slow in order to avoid wrinkles, it is only a two person job: one preparing on demand the small quantities of resin, the other one applying it. When is comes to large areas, it has to be a team work: preparing resin, impregnating the wood, unrolling the cloth (one roll transported by two persons - minimum: it's heavy!), wetting the cloth by the already applied resin, and trimming. Each operation is done by a dedicated team. Wet method throughout.

Hull sheathing will be done by unrolling the fiberglass horizontally above waterline (whole length of the boat at once on the whole width (50") of the fiberglass, while below it will have to be done by vertical sectors in between the shoring. Peel ply will be laid over the hull sheathing (saves a lot of future work and makes the whole work cleaner).
Once deck and hull will be sheathed, cured and sanded, the rubbing strake will be glued on (only glued). Then an epoxy primer, followed by a low density filler, then sanding, followed by another epoxy primer, and then the final polyurethane painting will be applied. Only then will the capping rail and other trims be glued on, teak deck laid, as well as cuts for portholes, etc...

The existing piece of capping rail, and other parts of superstructure will be protected during this operation, depending of whether they will have to be painted, varnished, left bare....

[RFNK]

It seems too much to ask that this be photographed as it happens but it would be great if the main steps could be photographed at least. The hull sheathing will certainly be a big day!
Rick

[Sailor]

Looking forward to seeing that in pics.

[Lucky Luke]

It seems too much to ask that this be photographed as it happens but it would be great if the main steps could be photographed at least. The hull sheathing will certainly be a big day!
Rick

The hull sheathing will certainly be much more than one day: more likely weeks!

I will try my best not to loose (another!) camera while this work is being done, but like what I said previously: a camera in one hand and a roller full of epoxy in the other is not a very good combination!

For the moment since preparation is, like usual, the most important thing: sanding, filleting, sanding again is being done, on the deck to start with, and after that on the hull. Quite a bit of work!!!

[peter radclyffe]

how about a helmet camera

http://www.google.it/aclk?sa=l&ai=Cw...ras_s/5304.htm

[RFNK]

Yep, `big day' is an expression ..... A series of big days! I'm sure the same thing would take me months! Well, I reckon that balancing act with the roller in one hand and the camera in the other does sound tricky but, hey, you like a challenge, right?
Rick

[Sailor]

Ditto Helmet cam!

[Lucky Luke]

how about a helmet camera

Would you like such clownesque thing for yourself when you are at work, Peter, unless you are paid by Disney channel (well: you already got Mickey's ears ).
Sorry gentlemen, but with all due respect, this is totally out of question.

[RFNK]

Spoilsport!!!
Rick

[Soundman67]

too bad we couldnt find someone from the forum willing to hang out and film some of the big jobs. I just dont think this boat can be documented enough. I certainly appreciate all the efforts put in to maintaining a thread like this and still get the actual work done. Its difficult to remember to pick up the camera when you have a groove going and the work is going well. I think we all just like watching so much that we get greedy and are always wanting more. So whatever you have time to feed us Luke is totally appreciated.
On a side note I am curious. Is this boat going to be completely finished out before being launched? I see some boats that are larger get the hull finished and then interior and systems may be finished once it is in the water.