Building 72' schooner in Viet Nam

[Jaywickrob]

Hi Luke,

Excellent thread.

The quality of workmanship achieved with basic hand tools, for the most part, is outstanding.

I've learnt so much and have so many questions that would, no doubt, lead to even more questions. So I'm not even going to start asking, I'll just sit back and wait for the next episode


Thanks for taking the time to do this for us.

Rob

[Lucky Luke]

Next episode.....!

I understand that this question of corner posts in superstructure concerns many, who are eager to see how we've done it. I reckon that this can be such a source for trouble that it better be done correctly. This assembly here is actually most usual (I think I've said that many times already....!).

So, after adjusting the inside part of the post, the longitudinal stringer, which is bigger since it supports the beams, is fitted with a recess below since the post finishes slightly higher (at the level of the atwarthship one):




....followed then by the atwarthship stringer, which "sits" on the previous one with a half lap, and entirely surround the tenon of the pillar, making that lot a strong, six pieces assembly:




Here is a wider view from inside, gluing the big clamp that covers the deck edge but also assembles deck and cabin side together. Clamp, stringer and corner posts will be varnished, and (what is left of it ...) the visible of the cabin side painted white (no comments on color please: that belongs to the owners and nobody else). Two small, sturdy, round portholes should be fitted there:






Outside, the post is rounded above the teak trim piece that will cover the joint:

[RFNK]

Nice Luc, thanks!
Rick

[Allison]

Thank you for such a detailed explanation Luke!

[Eric D]

ah ha.....so that is what he meant....LOL Thanks Luke.

I hear you on helmets, I HATE them too (6'4" guy) since I always HIT my head when I wear them.

[paladin]

Damn, Luc......excellent work. I wish I were back there. I should have stayed in Vung Tao.

[Lucky Luke]

The clamps and the stringers are now glued and fastened all round, ready for receiving the beams. The corners look neat with the stringers overlapping and holding the corner post. Only still missing is the small piece of clamp in the corners that will make the trough on top of this clamp continuous all round:








This trough is for collecting condensation water and will drain outside through a small copper pipe at the aft corners, and also makes a nice, strong hand-rail:

[Lucky Luke]

This superstructure looks more like a cargo hold at the moment...




....but a very luxurious cargo hold!




Once the roof will be finished over this superstructure (as well as the skylight behind it and the wheelhouse coaming), it will be entirely sheathed as well as the deck. It is getting a bit more cluttered now, but still plenty of flush deck farther aft:






Since there was a professional photographer yesterday taking pics for a Vietnamese Magazine, the tarpaulin that protects the bow from the sun was taken off and the whole hull visible:

[Allison]

Yeah, some "cargo hold" Luke!
It's really good to see it all coming together like this. Thank you for taking the time to keep posting for all of us to share in your wonderful project.

[Lucky Luke]

Will need to carry a lot of "cargo" to pay for herself!

Just ordered 3,500 board-foot of best Sitka Spruce for her masts...

Ah! Big boats....big boats....

[Allison]

I'm sure that it's fun to be able to use all that nice timber, a real pleasure in itself!
There's something magical about having a big stack of clear timber and looking at it before you start a job!

[Lucky Luke]

Not a "cargo hold" anymore, but a deck-house, with all the beams and girders in place, and the first layer of wood temporarily nailed there to mark the beams underneath. This will be similar to the deck itself, excepted everything is thinner.






The corners of the clamp are now done, and the trough along their top continuous all around, as well as correctly finished underneath:




Of course, it looks a bit strange, outside, with the planks not yet cut to their final lengths:

[dhic001]

Great stuff Luke, magnificent work, and superb explanation of the design and construction processes. I really enjoy this thread, even though I don't post on it often. A real inspiration to us all, and an inspiration to im[prove our own work standards.
Daniel

[Lucky Luke]

While the larch planks are taken away for machining and painting, the structure gets a West System impregnation, actually used here as a primer for the varnish.

I show these pictures here just because they look nice!

[Allison]

" they look nice" is a bit of an understatement Luke!

[davidagage]

Luc, a quick question. You mention West System as a primer for the varnish, are you coating all the brightwork with standard West Epoxy as a varnish primer?

Thanks,

David

[Lucky Luke]

....are you coating all the brightwork with standard West Epoxy as a varnish primer?

Hi David,

Up to now, the inside varnish has been applied onto International Everdure primer, which is a thinned, very low molecular weight epoxy...and which used to contain some anti-fungus and other "poisons" which are, alas, not allowed anymore, no matter in how small quantity...!

Since we are presently negotiating with paint suppliers, we have temporarily suspended any orders, which we can since the West System epoxy can be used a good primer for paints and varnishes.

On the interior, this priming, whether by Everdure or by W.S. will be followed by coats of two parts polyurethane varnish, and then satin top-coat. I very much regret that we had to use one part satin polyurethane top-coat varnish from International, from which we cannot go back to the far superior two parts ones, just because they did not have a satin in this range. Other suppliers have, and will be favored for that reason.

Since you ask for "all the brightwork", then the answer is no.

After investigation and questioning most experienced users of the "modern" products, it appears that the also called "UV protecting" exterior varnishes are far from offering an sufficient protection to any epoxy that would have been used as a primer. Only the opaque paints with non-transparent solid contents can do it. This means that no epoxy impregnation at all will be done before any exterior brightwork.

[Lucky Luke]

Nothing that spectacular again: sanding, coating, sanding, coating....
The planking on the roof will soon be ready, and then the plywood...just a repetition of the deck.

The only woodwork, besides preparing the timber for the skylights on the deck and on the roof has been a bit of finishing of the forward companionway:




A curved teak trim aesthetically joins the sashes, and another smaller one will go all round along the top of the white painted sapelli and meranti base, only the teak being varnished:




A bit more, later, when the skylight will get assembled and the roof planked!

[boaterbiz]

All these logs are very good !

WOOD BUTCHERS:
If you build in wood, you have to cut trees!

As I told you a few days ago, I had to go to the mill to guide the milling of the teak logs that had been bought for the (future) decking.

Of course, I did not go in the forests of Burma to fall down the trees, but all starts by choosing you logs. This is a lottery! There can be, with teak grown in forests, big black areas that can make a whole log un-usable. Nowadays, we do not have this oily, close grain teak full of silica but also less bad surprises with trees that have grown in plains and had been looked after. Many individuals and logging companies are planting teak log in Burma (Myanmar) today and less is cut in forests, happily.

The difficult choice at the lumber yard between dozens of logs :



At the mill, I decided to cut in thick boards the width of the deck planks first, which will later be cut at the yard in order to be quarter-sawn, and have the mill cutting only the central planks at the final thickness (plus 4 mil for machining). Here is a sixty years old log, the smallest one I had bought:



This one is a hundred years old!



I find some poetry in this picture.....:



The boards were then stacked under cover at the yard, by thickness, where they will stay for their first 3, 4 weeks. After that, since teak is one of the few timbers which like drying in the sun (and it gives it a nice color too!), the boards will be taken to the open spaces of the yard when the rainy season will be finished.

[THE LAKE]

I just wanted to say how incredible I think it is that there still exists in this world, people with the talent, the will and the means to build something as beautiful as this boat. Magnificent does not even begin to describe this project ; I think wonderous would be a more apt word. The skil, talent and ability of the craftsmen bringing forth this work of art from the raw wood of trees is boggles the mind in the world we live in today. Thank you on behalf of everyone who ever wished we had not discarded our past so quickly. It lives on in this project.

[Horsemarine]

Luc,
I am a newcomer to the forum. To put a value on what I am about to say, I must introduce myself. I am a (nominally!) retired master mariner, boat builder and designer of no great distinction but considerable experience. I continue all these activities from my armchair, while working on a thesis in history at University College Cork, in Ireland.
I think this thread is the most valuable single resource I have ever seen on the subject of boatbuilding, whether I look at it as builder, designer, sailor or historian. We all owe you an enormous debt for the trouble you have taken to maintain it, despite an obviously (and deservedly) bhusy professional practice. The night before last, I sat up nearly all night reading through the thread from the beginning.
En passant, I must also congratulate you on your superb command of English. I claim some knowledge of your beautiful native language, but in the face of your expertise, I dare not injure it by attempting to address you in it!
Magnifique!!!

[Duncan Gibbs]

Luc, I'm really looking forward to visiting you in Ho Chi Minh City and coming with you to see this magnificent build. Two more sleeps until HCMC! I'm sorry we won't meet when we arrive but we will be shattered from 14 hours of travel from here. Nevertheless we'll be really excited to meet you and see you city and this build!

[Lucky Luke]

Thank you, Lake and Horse for you nice comments, but it is to the men up there that much of the congratulations have to be adressed, as well as to the owner for his endeavor!

An example (one more) of their nice work is the making of the main skylight over the saloon. The sapelli base and lower ridge of this skylight will be varnished inside but painted outside while the teak sashes and top ridge will be all varnished. This on-deck skylight, as well as the (not so high) on-roof two others (above forward cabin passageway and over aft cabin) are all removable for taking in-out large items.
Vertical S.S. tie rods will be installed to avoid cracks in this solid wood...which will also be epoxy encapsulated, the tie-rod at the center-line, forward and aft, also holding the ridge.






A nice work, then, is the secret dove-tail of the corners assembly, that will ensure that the joint inside will be a thin hair-line while there will be no end-grain outside. The fixed base , with conventional dove tail, will have the deck sheathing running up on it. The forward companionway was done a long time ago, differently but just as carefully, anyway.

Just for the pleasure of doing a nice job...! Biscuits?: I give that to my dog!

[Soundman67]

thats a great looking corner joint. Nice and strong and no end grain like we would have with a standard dovetail or even box joint. will you keep the outside square or round it off after the box is completed?

[Sailor]

As always, incredible!!

[peterAustralia]

If you like this one, and I think it is amazingly impressive..

there is a blog about a similar large, very high quality craft here, build if Phillipines, 52ft schooner by Nigel Irens design, hull is strip planked, then double diagonal veneer, then strip planked again. Most impressive, looks real nice

http://www.fusionschooner.blogspot.com/

it also gives the cost,,, just 3 million canadian dollars.... ouch.... (apparently a lot of that was the carbon masts)

[Lucky Luke]

will you keep the outside square or round it off after the box is completed?

Yes, it will be slightly rounded, to reduce the fragility of any sharp edge.

Peter Australia: We know this boat, as Bertrand D'Alencon - aka "Bertho" - has been a regular poster here. Wonderful! As soon as the repetitive typhoons (Megi... and babies) over the South china Sea will calm down a bit (...???) he will sail to Phuket. Hope he gets good weather as it is really wild all over here at the moment!!!

The price he gives is that of much larger (62') "Maggie-B": 2 M. CAN$, three years ago. Don't read too fast, please!

[SchoonerRat]

Luke,

I know I'm getting a bit ahead of things, but how will she be rigged? Gaff schooner? Staysail? Topsail? ...? I'd love to see a drawing of her sailplan. I apologize if it's already been posted, but I don't recall seeing it, and this thread has become more of an epic than I want to dig through looking for it.

Schooners are rare enough, but new schooner builds are as rare as a $2 bill. It's a real pleasure to see one built. I know the owners must have a superior intellect to go schooner, but do you have any insight as to why they chose to go this way.

[Raka025]

If you like this one, and I think it is amazingly impressive..

there is a blog about a similar large, very high quality craft here, build if Phillipines, 52ft schooner by Nigel Irens design, hull is strip planked, then double diagonal veneer, then strip planked again. Most impressive, looks real nice

http://www.fusionschooner.blogspot.com/

it also gives the cost,,, just 3 million canadian dollars.... ouch.... (apparently a lot of that was the carbon masts)

You missed it a little Peter, the 3 million Canadian was just a price comparison for a different boat than this one that was built in the Phillipines. Maggie B was destroyed in a fire in Canada...

[Lucky Luke]

....... how will she be rigged? Gaff schooner? Staysail? Topsail? ...? I'd love to see a drawing of her sailplan. I apologize if it's already been posted, but I don't recall seeing it, and this thread has become more of an epic than I want to dig through looking for it.
.

Oh! what a laziness!
Simply go to post #12, on the very first page of this thread !

[discovery999]

What kind of glue are you using on the hull planking?

[Lucky Luke]

What kind of glue are you using on the hull planking?

It is PUR D4 from Akzo Nobel that has been used, a polyurethane, for both the frame lamination and the planking, which has proven very good on various tests.

However, now that most gluing can be subject to high local stress, we are using essentially epoxies, usually with cab-o-sil or microfiber additives. I also, personally, favor this adhesive in spite of it's many difficulties and inconvenience!

[SchoonerRat]

Oh! what a laziness!
Simply go to post #12, on the very first page of this thread !

Laziness? C'mon, Luke; I always check the table of contents before searching a book page by page.

Seriously though, I am interested in how the owners decided to go with a schooner. I've been only marginally successful in steering yacht buyers to this old traditional rig, and that has almost always been with a nice breezy sail.

[Lucky Luke]

Seriously though, I am interested in how the owners decided to go with a schooner. I've been only marginally successful in steering yacht buyers to this old traditional rig, and that has almost always been with a nice breezy sail.

This subject really deserves a thread on its own, so vast it is!
I am, just like you it seems, a strong defender of the schooner rig, and with good reasons....and "a bit" of practice too

The reasons why Derek (the owner) went for a schooner maybe because the "tree of life" happens to have such a rig, but he also just refused to have a modernized "dandy" schooner rig (with Bermudian main), mostly because that was not in line with the intention to do day charter/ team building. If one day she happens to cruise short handed, she may have a Bermudian main....!

Let's develop on the subject later, and maybe in another thread: I am sure this will heat up some discussions!!!

Luc

[SchoonerRat]

This subject really deserves a thread on its own, so vast it is!
Let's develop on the subject later, and maybe in another thread: I am sure this will heat up some discussions!!!

Luc

That's a great idea. I was hoping for an easy answer where there isn't one. Many of our So Cal schooners have recently been departing for other waters and they aren't being replaced.

Once again I'll go to the table of contents instead of digging through your epic. (please don't call me lazy, I resemble that remark ) Do you have a launch date that you're working towards.

[kazeai1969]

still lurking here luc...nothing to add other then to say "still lurking here luc" and "what a gorgeous "boat" she's going to be!"....

[floatingkiwi]

Luc, I was excited to show you the pulpit on the folkboat , refined to your specs, and couldn't wait for you to show up on my thread so, here it is. It is much better, thank you. Oh and your well educated guesses at its original height etc, were spot on.


Now I want to smash my forehatch framework out so I can do it again like this...WOW.

[Lucky Luke]

Nice pulpit there, Mr. "Floatingkiwi"!

Here, we are not there yet...!

The forward roof is now with it's first layer on (+ two 12mm. thick plywood to follow), and looks good at least from the inside:








In the meantime, the skylight that is on deck behind this roof is being completed. This part will be entirely removable from it's base in order to be able to take in/ out large items
(tanks, pieces of furniture...). The teak ridge and sashes are being done separately:

[RFNK]

Looks great Luc!
Rick

[Sailor]

If only.......

[Lucky Luke]

The skylight teak ridge and sashes are almost done, not yet shaped and adjusted. They will be beautiful once finished, painted and varnished:




With the glues and the neoprene gaskets that we have now, there is no reason for wooden skylights to leak more than alloy deck hatches, provided gaskets are in compression and multiple troughs drain to the outside not only the water that gets in between the sashes and along the hinge, but also the condensation water that easily appears under the glass:




All these skylights can be taken off heir bases which are shaped like this this one (which will sit on the forward roof):




At the same time, plywood is being scarfed for gluing together onto the roof, like what was done for the deck:




Now that work progresses fast towards the stern, I have to start designing the wheelhouse, with it's sliding side doors and hatches, opening windows, etc....BIG job!

[brad9798]

I am still amazed, Luke, every time I open this thread ... GREAT STUFF, sir!

[Eric D]

Boy if that wheel house is anything like the details of the hatches etc. we are sure in for a treat!!! Thanks Luc for the updates!

[Lucky Luke]

Well, Eric: this exposed wheelhouse will have to be very strong, but will be very classically built with coaming, standards, transversals, clamp and beams, the only delicate parts being the sliding doors and hatches and opening windows.

For now, the on-deck skylight woodwork is almost done:




...although a bit of black knot (visible here) revealed itself when machining one of the sashes....which piece may need replacement: will see on varnishing trials after the wood has discolored a bit (little hope!). That is what wood is: a non-guaranteed material (specially teak!




The 2 x 12mm. plywood layers are now dry fit on the roof:




...and then epoxy glued, with CSM (visible not yet trimmed on this picture) in between larch and plywood and between plywood. Each side of the on-deck skylight and sheltered by the roof will be a perfect place for the two (sailing!) dinghies:

[rovingtom]

Exceptional work! Thank you for sharing.

Will you also build the two sailing dinghies, what design will they be?

[rovingtom]

Exceptional work! Thank you for sharing.

Will you also build the two sailing dinghies, what design will they be?

[whb]

Thanks Luc,

Been away from the forum for about 6 years (life/opportunity got in the way) but glad to be back especially when a thread of such quality is here.

Howard

[Raka025]

Hi Luke,

What would "CSM" stand for in your decking layup above? I am considering a laid decking covered by plywood and than dynel and was thinking about glass or kevlar between the layers.

Oh, execptional work and continue sharing.

[Lucky Luke]

What would "CSM" stand for in your decking layup above? I am considering a laid decking covered by plywood and then Dynel and was thinking about glass or Kevlar between the layers.

CSM stands for Chopped Strand Mat.

Between solid wood and plywood, or between two plywood, I like to have a layer of fiberglass, preferably CSM, which will "move" more easily than a woven or even stitched one would and allow a thick reinforced epoxy layer which will absorb better minute movement between solid wood and ply, or the CSM "distribute" itself between two plywood. This is just a slightly less rigid assembly that a more direct contact between these layers of wood/ plywood. It also acts as a strong barrier to any rot causing fungus.

A Kevlar between two layers of wood (strip planking + cold molding for example) is there mostly to increase the resistance to perforation of this "composite" to local shock.

I cannot speak of Dynel, or other polyesters, which I have never used (and cannot really see where it would be really superior to fiberglass...?), but I know it has strong partisans.

[Lucky Luke]

Will you also build the two sailing dinghies, what design will they be?

Yes, we shall build the sailing/ outboard dinghies, of course. Design will be specific for this boat and produced by my office.