Building 72' schooner in Viet Nam

[cookie]

I guess I am guilty of searching this forum to find answers to the problems involved with my project. Your worry about the derailing of the thread seems very reasonable to me. After I had made the post, I wondered whether it was ok to interrupt on your gorgeous thread with such a nitty gritty question, only relevant to me and maybe a hand full of others on the Forum.
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my question and the continuous sharing of your knowledge with us hungry, curious, but often inexperienced bunch of rascals.

[Lucky Luke]

I guess I am guilty of searching this forum to find answers to the problems involved with my project.

Absolutely not guilty! You are perfectly welcome as we all have to help each others.

[Lucky Luke]

As I said earlier, ordinary varnish had been put on all the interior. Since we want to do a deep epoxy impregnation (we use International Everdure for that, but other brands do just as well), all of it had to be taken off. On top of that, this varnishing had been done on a rather lousy preparation, and not nice at all. So, weeks of sanding after, the interior revealed itself in the splendor of it's beautiful wood. A pity, certainely, that most of it will be hidden later by the lining and the inside arrangement, but here it is, at the moment, all visible. The beautifully carved knees and the beams will be left visible and varnished with satin polyurethane before putting the first layer of the new deck on.

The inner side of the transom, Port and Starboard :





Do not think that sanding does not have it's funny moments!



In the future Starboard guest cabin, looking forward at the foremast reinforced frames and hanging knees:



The inner side of the planking in the saloon: beautiful , isn't it? Makes you wonder how come some boats are built differently, with other materials: what does compare, even by a long shot? Aluminum may be what comes closer...but then it is all hidden in ignominious foam ...and carbon fiber?: Hahahahahaha (ROTFLM) !!!!

[Lucky Luke]

At the moment, the most delicious pieces of art are these carved knees. The are made from rosewood, a very beautiful wood that will be gorgeous after varnishing: you will see! This rosewood comes from a tree that had fallen during a typhoon years ago, and that Derek bought from the City Council. NO illegal logging and wood smuggling for this boat!

No comments needed: Just enjoy (and appreciate how the carving was done to receive the bolts and bungs...!):







By right, there should have been a stringer at the foot of those knees, but when you see the power of these laminated frames....mmmmmhh: will do!

[snaiken]

Just incredible. Beautiful boat and great updates. I've been really enjoying this post.

[snaiken]

PS, those knees are unbelievable! Does one guy carve them all? Looks like they all match perfectly.

[Scot L T]

Amazing!

[Lucky Luke]

PS, those knees are unbelievable! Does one guy carve them all? Looks like they all match perfectly.

Yes, one single man, and quite an artist! An old Chinese wood carver (as you can see by his style). Once all the bungs are in place, he will come and do the last touch-ups, on board.

This WHOLE boat is going to be quite a piece of Art!

[kazeai1969]

wow!

[RFNK]

PS, those knees are unbelievable! Does one guy carve them all? Looks like they all match perfectly.

As I'm sure Luc will attest, the quality of woodcarving that can be found in Vietnam is incredibly high. Of course there is a great deal of very ordinary carving but if you really look around you can find carving that is breathtaking - old and new.

This latest batch of photos is great Luc, thanks! Rick

[paladin]

I don't have pictures here, but I had a dining room set made for my mother while I was in Lopburi. The old man that came every morning walked 5 miles from his home to work. I had a picture from a magazine. We had rosewood, so I started by roughing out the planks and joining them to make the table top, then the skirt, then the legs. It had two removable leaves. After the basic work was done, he took over the carving and I and another young man started working on the chairs. We had to be careful of the grain, as he was going to do some light carving on the chairs also. When finished , it was absolutely beautiful. Three months after shipping it arrived at mom's place and the grandkids (hers) assembled it......she almost didn't let anyone eat from the table.but...she did have a large glass cover made for it.
It cost me about $300 for the material and labor, and almost the same to ship it. 3-4 months after it arrived, a fellow that bought material from my mother and aunt was in the house and saw the table. He asked if it was for sale, and mom asked how much, he offerred her about $6000 for it....she just laughed.
She had seen a similar one at one of the really high end furniture places and they wanted $15,000 for it....as a matter of fact, it was photos from there that I used to make hers, and we're talking late 1960's prices. Those elderly Chinese carvers are really damned fine craftsmen. The local offshore fishermen boat builders here locally have two of them employed in Deale, Md. and the guy said he would hire a dozen more if he could get them.

[Daniel Noyes]

They won't have to tear off the carvings and re-do them...the carvings are top quality...

actually looking at the grain patern in one of those carved knees it looks to be a board cut to look like a structural knee, simply cut at an angle from a wide board as opposed to a real grown knee... is that a structural member? or a interieor detail.

[Lucky Luke]

They won't have to tear off the carvings and re-do them...the carvings are top quality...

actually looking at the grain pattern in one of those carved knees it looks to be a board cut to look like a structural knee, simply cut at an angle from a wide board as opposed to a real grown knee... is that a structural member? or a interior detail.

Would be difficult to "tear off the carvings": they are not glued onto a big flat piece of wood: it is the whole piece of wood that is carved "down", leaving the design protruding.

These knees are effectively not done from curved grain boards as - you're right - they should have been, but quite "real" nonetheless. You can call them "triangles" cut in the shape of a curved grain knee, but with a large radius. In ancient boatyards (that's what I've been told) the curved wood was more precious than the "ordinary" straight grain, and trees were even purposely bent during their growth, or a major branch was not cut off....but now, it is straight, clear timber. This tree gave just a big log: no branches.

But no worry: they are massive, sturdy, and the bolting takes the whole of the "triangle" and that only, while the "real grown knee extra shape" is not mechanically working: as you can see, there is no bolt right at the ends. No risk to have them split across the grain

[neilm]

Wow!

[peter radclyffe]

solid rosewood, what a cost, here its very dear

[Lucky Luke]

Hello again!

While some of the crew are finishing the sanding, some are still busy with odd bits and pieces of wood.

A new flooring support at the bottom of the chain locker, and structure for the access deck hatch has been made. The collision bulkhead behind this chain locker will now be made "solid" again.

The chain locker will not be a whole glassed thing as it was, but a more classic all-wood lining, than can me removed/ replaced, and that moreover will preserve the ventilation/inspection of the hull's inner side. That is also why you can see that the deck hatch structure outer girder is kept at some distance from the blocking between beams, in order to preserve ventilation behind and over the clamp.





To finish with the deck structure, we also had to decide on the shape of the roofs. Some trials on the 3D model made it obvious that the forward roof's forward cabin-side had to be slightly curved, which is not on Ted Brewer's original design. You also can see on this (rough) rendering that the wheelhouse shape is considerably altered when compared with Ted's "Tree of Life": rounded corners, narrower forward. Still to be approved by owners...



Then, the forward and aft (double curvature) cabin side girders have then been laminated, and assembled to the side girders and to the adjoining beam. Roughly triangular pieces of solid rosewood (yes Peter: very dear, but we still got quite some....and it's so beautiful!) will be fitted in between the beams and the girders to fill a deep narrow space that would otherwise be not too pretty, seen from the inside.

Here is the aft cabin one:



...and here the forward roof, above the forward guest cabins:

[Lucky Luke]

The pilot hole for the engine room shaft has been drilled in order to know exactly where the cord line will meet the forward bulkhead.

Here is the pilot hole from the outside:



....and inside, the pilot hole hits the center-line BANG IN!!!(mind that the deadwood is two meters thick!)



Knowing exactly, then, where the cord line hits the forward bulkhead, an "L" shape reinforcement could be made that will take most of the engine's thrust. You can also see, on this picture, that the whole bottom of the engine room has been sheathed in order to avoid oil spills impregnating the wood:



The wheelhouse floor structure, right above the engine room, is made in yellow balau. It is intentionally super-strong as lifting pad-eyes will be fitted under for eventual heavy lifting in engine room with chain-blocks.





Here with the plywood flooring, with a "soft patch" (or engine removal hatch) in the middle, and just beside the cut out in this flooring for the slope of the companionway from the wheelhouse down the salon. The 18mm. plywood floor will later be covered by 8mm. teak with maple inserts:

[Eric D]

Very impressive indeed. I like the shape of the deadwood where it comes to the stern tube. And to hit it right on...nice....

[Jayhawk]

Luke,

I've been haunting your thread for a month now. Just wanted to thank you for sharing your stories with those of us that aren't quite so lucky as you. :=)

(sitting back to enjoy the rest of the show.)

[Lucky Luke]

....I can't wait for you to finish this build, so you can start on mine!

It's going to take quite a while: superstructures and skylights, doors and hatches, bulwarks, interior flooring, tanks and piping, mechanical and electrical, main engine and shaft line, generator, exhausts, pumps, batteries and their boxes, chargers, ventilation, rudder and steering, inside arrangement (a lot!), spars (8!) and their fittings, ballast (we may cast on site: 20 tons!) and keel bolts, sheathing, painting, teak decking, sails and rigging (and blocks, deck fittings, a.s.o...), winches, interior equipments, electronics, safety, tenders (to be made: three of them!)......

For the moment, we are with reduced crew, and finishing the interior sanding, cleaning, and just started yesterday the epoxy impregnation. As you can see, after having cut off the ugly aft bulwark that had been made not in accordance with Ted Brewer's pretty design, we still kept the remains of the stanchions in this massive stern frame:



The dry, porous meranti really gobbles the epoxy like a hungry child (International Everdure with 50% thinner on first impregnation, 30% on second, last coat pure, all at one hour intervals) : 3m2 only per liter of Everdure (+thinner) ...and there are 400 m2 to do!

Some hardwood pieces, like the king plank, drink less...and are really beautiful:



The stem, which had been left all square as you could see in previous pictures, is now a nicely shaped cut-water, and the top of the stem shaped for receiving the bowsprit:

[peter radclyffe]

Luke how many people do you have to build all these things

[py]

I still remember your first thread where people said you couldn't get good work done over there. Hah!!!

[Sailor]

WOW!!! Maybe I'll have my boat built in Vietnam.

[Lucky Luke]

Luke how many people do you have to build all these things

Hi Peter. At the moment: six. The "normal" team is eight, who have been in the making of this boat since the very beginning.

[Lucky Luke]

WOW!!! Maybe I'll have my boat built in Vietnam.

You'll be perfectly welcome

[kazeai1969]

Hi Luke,
Would the wood carver be interested in doing any other work or is he a busy guy? The deck is coming of my Folkboat this winter and I would love to have a nice carving added to the cabin.....
I am in Xiamen, China now and have found a guy that might be able to help me...but wanted to ask you anyways.
Merci
Alex

[Lucky Luke]

Twenty liters of Everdure impregnating epoxy have already been used...just for the aft cabin!

The wood now looks beautiful, dark, hard!





You can see on these pictures that the bottom of the bilges had been heavily sheathed, as well as where the bathroom will be....
all this quite exaggeratedly and at great cost .

After this impregnation, the beams, knees and all what is to remain visible (and UV exposed) will be varnished with International two parts polyurethane glossy varnish, and then one part polyurethane satin top-coat.

Now hunting for best dry, light wood to start the first layer of the "under-deck" (16-18mm. tongue and grooved) that will been covered with two 12mm. ply, all that glued and last layer screwed down (belt and braces!) and then lightly sheathed before the final 16mm. teak (glued only). Over two inches thick total!

For the moment, the Everdure thinner fumes are such that it is better not to have a deck, would it be for that one reason only!

[Lucky Luke]

Hi Luke,
Would the wood carver be interested in doing any other work or is he a busy guy? The deck is coming off my Folkboat this winter and I would love to have a nice carving added to the cabin.....
I am in Xiamen, China now and have found a guy that might be able to help me...but wanted to ask you anyways.
Merci
Alex

Hi Alex. No problem about work from this man, but you will easily find as good craftsmen in Xiamen, no doubt...and be able to follow up, export, etc...

[Vince Brennan]

Thanks for the updates and pictures!

[Sailor]

Bravo Zulu is right!

[Lucky Luke]

...and 20 liters (5 gallons.) of Everdure later, only half of the salon could be done. We are ordering another 80 liter (20 gallons) ....Ah!...big boats...big boats!!1



I wanted to make sure that our 14 mm. plywood would accept without problems the double curvature of deck crop and sheer, quite important on this boat.



No problem!



Do you think the beams fairing was done well?



After that , it is not plywood that will be directly on the beams but 18mm. "Xoan Dao" wood (pygeum arboreum, F.S.C. controlled), tongue and grooved, with a "decorative gouging" (help my English, please!) along seams underneath, and painted white. This will be followed by two layers of 14mm ply, and then 16mm. teak. That will suffice!!!

[bertho]

lucky luke, je dis..bravo! beautifull never stop!
just post the link for the small 50' schooner ongoing project in the philippines, same same but different!!
bertho

[Lucky Luke]

just post the link for the small 50' schooner ongoing project in the philippines, same same but different!!
bertho

Very different: much faster!!!!

Well...going to buy some timber (for the new decking) on Tuesday....hang on there: plenty more to come

[peter radclyffe]

its difficult to get beams that fair

[RFNK]

Thanks again Luc, looking great! I'm continually amazed at the quality of craftsmanship that exists in Vietnam. While there is a huge amount of dodgy building and `craftsmanship' etc. to be found everywhere, there is just so much great stuff too. You can walk through any town and you'll come across someone making flawless metal gates, wooden doors, furniture etc. on the footpath with the absolute minimum of equipment. Imagine anyone in the `developed' countries making a set of folding doors using a plane with the blade made from a pice of steel scrap and sharpened by scraping on the footpath! I think you're really lucky Luc to have these guys working on your project and I think they're lucky to be gaining the skills that your guidance is clearly providing. A great combination! Rick

[Lucky Luke]

its difficult to get beams that fair

Thank you, Peter. This compliment - from you - is a honor for them good boys.

This work - and many others - has effectively been well done: not the smallest gap, forward or aft, between this 14mm. "test" ply and the beams. Fairing been all done by curved-sole wooden hand plane, with constant reference to a stiff batten across beams, and result is just perfect. Took a while, of course....!

[Lucky Luke]

I think you're really lucky Luc to have these guys working on your project and I think they're lucky to be gaining the skills that your guidance is clearly providing. Rick

Thanks for the kind words to them and I, but I would like to precise a couple of things: I only recently got involved and relay on it's management and on some modern construction techniques - or rectification of some real mistakes done during the "holidays" of the first manager...hum! This is a crew of already experienced shipwrights, but keen on learning new ways.

Also, this should not be called "my" project, but of my courageous friends, Derek and Mary, and their deep commitment to this realization.

[hexe]

Thank you for sharing, the process of creating a traditional wooden boat makes one feel almost like breathing life into a living creature.

[Father-of-Ten]

All of the pictures are missing - Is there a setting or something that I need to do to view these?

Thanks


[quote=Lucky Luke;2354301]Second planking, thicker, needs a bit more muscle, hydraulic jacks and wedges:



Finished planking is then glued and fastened with 3/8 stainless steel lag bolts:





quote]

[Lucky Luke]

Hi father of so many

That is quite strange: not only all the pictures do show on all our computers, and also from other places, but since you replied by "quoting" one of my previous posts, there are three pictures showing on your post!!!

All these are stored in "Photobucket", and all what there is in the Woodenboat server is a link to these pictures in Photobucket server.

One thing may be possible, then, and has been reported to me by someone already: it is that some servers you may work from (apparently that concerns some government offices) block the access to Photobucket....for some reasons May I then suggest that you try looking at it from somewhere else?

This would, if it's the case, affect the pictures in posts from all other people using Photobucket.

NOTE: when "quoting" a post that contains pictures, unless one wants these pictures to show again for some explanatory reasons, it is better to delete in the [quote] all what is between [ IMG] and [ /IMG] . This way, only the text that is to be quoted appears, not all the pictures that were with it.

[Lucky Luke]

You will have noticed, through the fact that there has not been any new posts, the very little progress during these past four weeks...
Procurement, here, is sometimes...difficult!

One delay was caused by the high quantity of International's Everdure impregnating epoxy this wood gobbles, and then the delay in getting some more: we cannot just walk up the road like in your country (most of you, I mean): it has to be ordered. Should be there soon.

Another one was due to wood procurement for the first deck layer. After discussion with the owner, it was decided to do it the "classic" way, with wood planks showing underneath, and not seeing the plywood directly. Much prettier, no deny! But since this was a change in the construction, we had no wood for that!

As I have already mentioned, it is out of question for this construction to use wood from non renewable sources. Just a matter of principle. So, as we wanted to have timber more lightweight than locally available "Xoan Dao", I first looked for some US import cedar, but could only find short pieces, and not enough anyway. So, after some search, we finally got some "Comrade Douglasky fir": Russian wood. I would not really guarantee that they manage their forests the best way over there, but I know there is plenty!

So: here is the stuff. From four to....fifteen growth rings per centimeter! Not as light as cedar, very little resin, nice smell. I would have better like it to be all quarter sawn, but this is well seasoned wood, and I do not expect it to move much. 600 US$/ M3, already sawn to 22 mm. thick (for 18 finished). not bad, hey? Of course, cheaper in US....!





What works best: jointer machine or jointer plane?
Nice long shavings, and a more pleasant sound :SSSSssssccchhhhhhhh, with the jointer plane!!!

[Candyfloss]

I'm glad you take worker safety seriously, (I've worked in plenty of yards where they didn't) but wearing a mask hand-planing Doug Fir outdoors in that climate?

[Lucky Luke]

I'm glad you take worker safety seriously, (I've worked in plenty of yards where they didn't) but wearing a mask hand-planing Doug Fir outdoors in that climate?

Ahhhh! had my lunch spring rolls: Vietnamese cuisine: mmmmhhh!

Well: His jointer plane maybe silent, but actually it's also ear plugs that Mr. Nam should wear: there is a BIG thicknesser planer just beside him, and no aspiration! (look at the first picture an the machine that is over there, behind the pile of wood!

Anyway: temperature, right now and up to end of January, is just perfect: not hot, not cold (I wear a short sleeve shirt all year round), no more heavy showers, no suffocating heat yet: very good!

[Lucky Luke]

Just for the fun (and the dream): we did a small animation of this boat, using the basic 3D model created for taking decisions on the shape of the wheelhouse> no running rigging, simplicist sails, no sound, etc....but quite pleasant still:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUiQsTCH50I

One day....one day....

[RFNK]

Thanks Luc, love the little Youtube! We have a team going to HCMC next week and I thought I might be able to join them but not possible this time, unfortunately.

Vietnamese occupational health and safety - you could chat for years about that; you'd need months just to get through the worst examples! I see really hazardous behaviour every day - it's unavoidable in Vietnam but I guess things that really make me cringe would include welding without any eye protection (don't ask me how they do it!) and really high ladders that are placed, unguarded, on busy streets and footpaths with motorbikes, cars, pedestrians, bicycles, and lots more motorbikes, weaving their way around them while some guy just works blithely away, several storeys up the ladder. Rick

[Father-of-Ten]

Double L

Thanks for the info. I am able to access PhotoBucket and would love to see the photos - How are they listed on PhotoBucket? I am planning on starting to build a boat this winter and would like to see what you did - We will be building a 32' York boat - a lot smaller than yours

Have a great day - I

Hi father of so many

That is quite strange: not only all the pictures do show on all our computers, and also from other places, but since you replied by "quoting" one of my previous posts, there are three pictures showing on your post!!!

[Candyfloss]

Great video. Thanks Luke.

[Boston]

As I have already mentioned, it is out of question for this construction to use wood from non renewable sources. Just a matter of principle. So, as we wanted to have timber more lightweight than locally available "Xoan Dao", I first looked for some US import cedar, but could only find short pieces, and not enough anyway. So, after some search, we finally got some "Comrade Douglasky fir": Russian wood. I would not really guarantee that they manage their forests the best way over there, but I know there is plenty!

So: here is the stuff. From four to....fifteen growth rings per centimeter! Not as light as cedar, very little resin, nice smell. I would have better like it to be all quarter sawn, but this is well seasoned wood, and I do not expect it to move much. 600 US$/ M3, already sawn to 22 mm. thick (for 18 finished). not bad, hey? Of course, cheaper in US....!

not sure I mentioned it but I got great wood sources
works out you payed something like 2 a board foot for Dougy
but maybe that included shipping
absolutely beautiful boat your have going there
pm me if you have any procurement issues concerning any more American species of timber

best of luck and keep up with those pictures
cheers
B

[Lucky Luke]

I am able to access PhotoBucket and would love to see the photos - How are they listed on PhotoBucket?

Hi Daddy-o-dida-doo!

Another possibility would be that your anti-virus is blocking the links from Woodenboat website. You would then have to add Woodenboat/forum to your trusted site... Maybe!

What you can try, anyway, is to right click where there "should" be a picture (I guess you may have just a little red cross...?), and click on "properties". Highlight these with your mouse, click "copy" (or type: "ctrl + c"), and then paste (or type: "ctrl + v") on your navigator's URL line. The requested picture should show.

If all that does not work: my album in "Photobucket" is public. To access it, just goto: http://s380.photobucket.com/albums/oo249/lucky-luke-vn. All the pics are there, in roughly the same order as they (should ) appear here.

[bertho]

luky,
on some of the pict, we see all the bottom fill with ?? concrete?
just curious....
rgds
bertho