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Thread: The scale of the thing

  1. #596
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Very nice. Could it be the mystery Kiwi Concordia

  2. #597
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    I do believe it might be.

  3. #598
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Alright, that's enough of this! Please tell us all about the Kiwi Concordia!!

    Rick

  4. #599
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    There's been a Concordia in build here for a great number of years, by all accounts it's a beautiful build and a great deal of skill involved.
    Way back in the day when Margo was involved with the Concordia association in the US we chatted about it and I called the builder up. That could have been 10 years ago.
    Anyway, I believe that this is that boat. I was just driving through from Northland and took a short diversion to have a look at one of the boat yards. Those people had the look people get when they go to an event, so I wouldn't mind betting she's just gone in. All behind locked gates and I was travelling so I didn't hang around.

  5. #600
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Thanks!

    Rick

  6. #601
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Is this a scoop?
    Attachment 47498
    I know what I think this is sitting right there in front of Len's Joann

    What does the panel think...
    I can't work out the rig, is that forward mast actually on that boat?
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  7. #602
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    It's raining, it's light but it is rain.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  8. #603
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    It's raining, it's light but it is rain.
    Good to know.

  9. #604
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    Default

    Gary sometimes forgets where he is. Temporary loss of spatial awareness.

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk

  10. #605
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Forecast is for flash floods, we've got blue skies………………… and it's dead still.

  11. #606
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    Default

    Temporary can have various meanings.

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk

  12. #607
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I can't work out the rig, is that forward mast actually on that boat?
    Yes, the rigger didn't realise the boat had been moved when he installed the masts.

    Rick

  13. #608
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    The rigs belong to Mary Harrigan, the LFH Joann,which is moored on the other side of the finger/pier.
    It's cold here. Oh wait.......

  14. #609
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Gary sometimes forgets where he is. Temporary loss of spatial awareness.

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk
    To explain Phil's comment.
    When we arrived in to our berth after our recent passage we were greeted by the sight of a 40 ft keel boat up on the rocks about a mile away across the inlet. Apparently he only went up the night before. Very high and dry he was.
    Evidently it was a one off accident and was due to " a temporary loss of spacial awareness".
    Gonna remember that one.

  15. #610
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    I'll use it if I get stranded on a new sandbar when sailing tomorrow.

  16. #611
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Temporary loss of potential.

    Rick

  17. #612
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Setting courses that suilt all our classes will be fun…… Windrush cats will skip right over the shallows.

  18. #613
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Yes, the rigger didn't realise the boat had been moved when he installed the masts.

    Rick
    What a silly bunt I am. Last night I couldn't make out the yacht in the background.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  19. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Setting courses that suilt all our classes will be fun…… Windrush cats will skip right over the shallows.
    What is there some sort of boycott on the Antipodean thread? Or has Jeff also suffered a TLOSA?

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk

  20. #615
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Noted Phil

  21. #616
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    One of the great things about book launches of this type is it brings out all the old classics, and we get to stand around and jaw about sailing old boats.
    Anyway, a fabulous book about the K class here. Not a big class but as I've said many times on the wbf, if you think of them as NZs Concordia equivalent you'll get an idea of where they fitted into our yachting culture.
    20191211_105807.jpg
    A birdy told me the new Concordia pictured above in the thread is slated for substantial wooden media coverage, not a surprise

  22. #617
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    The production of the book was made by our own wb effer, Steve H ,and Ngatira features as she was altered and rated into the class for a time in the 60s or so.
    Our boat Waione was also close but was a foot or so too long on the waterline and became a second div A class instead. Nice to see she made a stealth appearance in the frontice piece out in front of Katrina. We used to have some great battles with the Ks through the 2000s
    20191211_111006.jpg
    Last edited by John B; 12-10-2019 at 05:32 PM.

  23. #618
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    And on another scale..., 20191209_083128.jpg
    No , these are not Kiwis. But I have been learning that the best camo for sneaking up on rabbits are large white cars or vans, or little red cars without a roof.
    Conclusion, go hunting them dressed as a frigidaire or a little red car without a roof.

  24. #619
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Hi John yes indeed She is what you think and superb .
    I'm there for the lunching as the builder of that vessel built the hard !! 1/2 of the "
    Mary Harrigan" also at that launching were 3 of the people that also helped build the 'MaryH' I had not seen them in 35 years, It was an important event for the 5 of us...
    She is rigged now and about ready for shakedown sail...
    Cheers Len

  25. #620
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Bump(s)
    20200130_161215.jpg

    Shopping trolleys at the supermarket this afternoon.
    20200130_161123.jpg

  26. #621
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    See, I was out one day just shootin' for some food, when up from the ground came some bubblin' crude.

    Or in this case, some America's Cup rudders.20200514_125300.jpg

  27. #622
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Okay, what's the story? Whose, where ......?
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  28. #623
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Bob Perry was talking about those scalloped trailing edges on FB a month or so ago.

  29. #624
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Leading edges. Paul Bieker (sp) did or does work with those, the idea is they mimic tubercles on humpback whale pectorals...keep flow attached , so I read.
    For all I know they're Oracle foils ex Core composites, or they're old TNZ stuff. They're entrance sculptures now anyway, about a mile or three away.

  30. #625
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Remember Floating Kiwi putting tubercles on his Folkboat?
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  31. #626
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Vaguely. I think it's about making a highly tuned foil less temperamental , or correcting a problem like giving a rudder more traction without a whole new one. I doubt it'd do anything measurable to a folk boat. And what leading edge on that boat anyway....was it on the keel?

  32. #627
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Er, no. They were on the bow. With the greatest respect to FK, the boat was not quite a finely tuned foil ....
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  33. #628
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    The mysterious tubercles:
    No discussion of modern rudder design would, be complete without some mention of tubercles: what are they and how do they work.
    I'll do my best to muddle through this so we can all understand, even me. This is a one dog walk post so it could be that I leave something out. Sorry.
    Look at the tail of a Grey whale. See those protuberances coming off the leading edge of the tail at fairly regular intervals? Those are tubercles. God in his wisdom decided that he could prevent the tail from stalling early if he added those bumps. This would improve the maneuverability of the whale.
    Now look at your rudder. Modern, low aspect ratio, thick foil rudders don't have much of a problem with stalling. But the ultra high aspect ratio, thin foils used on today's high performance boats are a problem. This foils like to stall. You apply rudder pressure and the water does not like it. The water wants to find the easiest way to escape that pressure. Rather than flow over the rudder chordwise as the designer intended, the water travels down the span. The flow goes spanwise. Pressure is reduced and drag is reduced but so is lift. You can't have lift without drag. When spanwise flow overtakes chordwise flow the rudder will stall, i.e. lose its grip on the water and the boat will round up. Exciting but often expensive and always slow.
    A few years ago designers tried "endplates" on the rudder tip to reduce this spanwise flow. It worked, a bit. Some designer used a series of "fences" chordwise to capture the spanwise flow and prevent stalling. While this worked it was a high drag solution and was soon abandoned.
    Then some smarty pants engineer noticed the whale's tail. "What if I put those bumps on a rudder?" Tests were done and papers were written and forgotten. But along came our own generation smarty pants, Paul Bieker. I don't know when Paul first tried tubercles but he did put them on my design ICON. ICON;s new owner decided the boat needed help when pushed hard. I have heard it improved ICON's handling. Paul's tubercles were cleanly faired into the rudder chord to reduce drag while still redirecting the flow to chordwise.
    Robert Perry fro Facebook
    Last edited by Hwyl; 05-14-2020 at 05:04 PM.

  34. #629
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    That's going to puzzle an archaeologist.
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  35. #630
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    Default Re: The scale of the thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    The mysterious tubercles:
    No discussion of modern rudder design would, be complete without some mention of tubercles: what are they and how do they work.
    I'll do my best to muddle through this so we can all understand, even me. This is a one dog walk post so it could be that I leave something out. Sorry.
    Look at the tail of a Grey whale. See those protuberances coming off the leading edge of the tail at fairly regular intervals? Those are tubercles. God in his wisdom decided that he could prevent the tail from stalling early if he added those bumps. This would improve the maneuverability of the whale.
    Now look at your rudder. Modern, low aspect ratio, thick foil rudders don't have much of a problem with stalling. But the ultra high aspect ratio, thin foils used on today's high performance boats are a problem. This foils like to stall. You apply rudder pressure and the water does not like it. The water wants to find the easiest way to escape that pressure. Rather than flow over the rudder chordwise as the designer intended, the water travels down the span. The flow goes spanwise. Pressure is reduced and drag is reduced but so is lift. You can't have lift without drag. When spanwise flow overtakes chordwise flow the rudder will stall, i.e. lose its grip on the water and the boat will round up. Exciting but often expensive and always slow.
    A few years ago designers tried "endplates" on the rudder tip to reduce this spanwise flow. It worked, a bit. Some designer used a series of "fences" chordwise to capture the spanwise flow and prevent stalling. While this worked it was a high drag solution and was soon abandoned.
    Then some smarty pants engineer noticed the whale's tail. "What if I put those bumps on a rudder?" Tests were done and papers were written and forgotten. But along came our own generation smarty pants, Paul Bieker. I don't know when Paul first tried tubercles but he did put them on my design ICON. ICON;s new owner decided the boat needed help when pushed hard. I have heard it improved ICON's handling. Paul's tubercles were cleanly faired into the rudder chord to reduce drag while still redirecting the flow to chordwise.
    Interesting, thanks! Sailboard fins have a similar issue. We call it `spin out'. When planing, particularly at higher speed, the fin simply loses its `grip' and the tail of the board slips sideways, and becomes difficult to control. It can be a bit freaky hurtling along in choppy water and suddenly finding you're going sideways. Various fin shapes have been tried to deal with it but deeper fins tend to be less prone. I haven't ever seen tubercles tried but I'd be surprised if they haven't, given the reasoning you describe.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

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