Yet Another Beginner

[halfnelson]

I'm right now completing, just in time for winter, my first boat, a CLC stitch-and-glue kayak. I have a lot of interests and so it took years, but I'm hooked. I want to get started on another boat right away.

I grew up here in the Upper Midwest, surrounded by the culture of northern sport fishermen. That culture never did much for me, but I love being on the water, and the little time I've spent sailing has been a thrill.

Some kind of daysailer would probably be sensible for my next project, but I'm not getting any younger and I'd rather do a trailerable cruiser suitable for overnights on my neighborhood lakes and capable of managing some larger waters.

I also wouldn't mind moving beyond the plywood stitch-and-glue universe and into some more traditional methods.

I'd love to hear people's suggestions. With a MN winter on the way, I plan to do my boatbuilding homework and start getting ready for this next project. So I have plenty of time to figure out what I want. I earn a steady paycheck, I can take my time, and my woodworking skills are not bad and improving. I'm also restoring my old bungalow house, so I appreciate detail work and I know my way around a toolbox. Finally, I'm single, so nobody gives me hell if I'm in the garage all night.

I'd also love to hear any tips about setting up a shop. I managed all right for building a kayak, but I'd like to get better organized. My car is indefinitely exiled to the driveway, because my half of the garage (roommate gets the other half) is reserved for unfinished boats.

Thanks...

[ShagRock]

Hi Halfnelson and welcome to the forum. I'm sure others will be along to help you focus on a design to suit your needs. There are two recent excellent threads regarding camp cruising sailboats that might be of interest.

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/show...r+camp+cruiser

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50623

[JimD]

Welcome to the forum. You'll probably be better off sticking to plywood if you want to keep it trailerable. To provide enough physical comfort for your aging bones you will want a hull that can support a cabin that provides good sitting headroom above settee berths. 18 - 20 foot length would be about right, especially if you have ambitions to sail bigger water. My situation is not much different from yours and I would not be comfortable with something as minimal as most of the open camp cruisers. Good luck

[halfnelson]

Thanks for these responses. Oh, I have a lot to learn. I'm not really old--just 39--and I'm fit enough, but nonetheless I'd like a boat I could sail comfortably for many years to come.

JimD, like you I'm on the fence between an open camp cruiser and something with a cabin. Honestly, I've got a kayak already. Another boat that gets me from beach to beach while staying close to shore is not as appealing as something more substantial, even though the minimalist beauty of those boats sure has got my attention.

[halfnelson]

The more I look at the open designs, the less interest I have in something with a cabin. I'd rather either sleep on deck or go ashore.

Right now the Seil 18 and the Melonseed 16' really have my attention, but that preference for now is entirely aesthetic. I'll be a beginning sailer so that's probably worth some consideration. Ah, I should go work on my kayak. Getting ready to varnish...

[floatingkiwi]

Hi wrestler.
I personally would keep the cabin as an option. Wind, as wonderful as it is, can be your worst enemy. It alone can decide whether your day on the water is an enjoyable and memorable one or a life threatening situation.
Extremes yes, but either way, the wind will grind you down and wear you out and you will look for ways to keep the air still around just your head, to get a break from it.
Apart from keeping all your stuff dry whilst still having it accessible, a cabin provides a basic need that if you have with you on the water, will make any journey, big or small, more enjoyable, giving you more versatility in planning where you can go and how long you can spend there.
Just my opinion from much experience on it the big blue wobbly thing.
Good on ya mate. Take care now.
Kerry

[perldog007]

Howdy all, new to this madness myself. Unlike O.P., I don't have much skill with wood working.

Paternal ancestors are from Scotland, known to wear a kilt now and then. Our friends joke that my wife wears the tool belt and the pants here at the dog compound.

Did manage to put together a Bolger box. Ugly, but dry and pondworthy.



like the O.P., am looking to build a boat to re-learn sailing. It's been awhile, like thirty years. I'm about a decade older than halfnelson, also a grappler back in the day. Live in Delaware.

I want the minimal boat I can sleep on, sail, and row. Need to keep construction simple. Looking at some Michalak designs, looks like the piccup squared is my next build.

For little ponds, slow litoral rivers, and maybe the Rehoboth Bay under fair weather forecasts, it will do. As sailing skills advance, will have to buy a trailer and build something more seaworthy.

I did my pond crossing as a younger man on the Nimitz, the most ambitious undertaking that can be foreseen at this time may be cruising the ICW at some point. Don't think I will ever be interested in owning anything that can't be hauled out on a trailer without having to own a dual axle diesel or larger.

That's why I like reading this forum. There is a wide range of skills, experience, and tastes. So I finally decided to register. Fairly verbose individual and lurking ain't my style anywho.

In my case, being able to get away without a trailer and the protected waters I have my eye on for next season coupled with a lack of carpentry skills make a modified Bolger box sensible.

It's the boat I just built with plywood butt joints and a little curve to the sides.

I know much more experienced sailors who would swim any distance they could before sailing in a shoebox, just on general principles.

My tastes run towards the funky functional boats in general. Instant boat builds, sharpies, Birdwatcher cabins. Plywood suits me fine. It's not that I don't find things like a well crafted Melonseed (or more ambitious builds) lovely. I do.

To me there's a certain charm to a clunky funky boat that a wood butcher can manage. The PDR is a thing of beauty to me. As are many of the gorgeous boats seen on this board.

These threads on camping/sailing/trailer-able craft are interesting. I would say ( am saying ) to my younger and more skilled fellow n00b, enjoy the selection process because "The World is Yours".

[mcdenny]

Mr Nelson,

I agree on the creature comforts of a boat with a cabin BUT they are generally too big to haul up on a beach. Probably the lightweight sharpies from Bolger and Michalak could provide a cabin and beach-ability but they just aren't my cup of esthetic tea.

If your tastes are turning to open camp-cruisers capable of being rowed effectively you might check out the designs of Iain Oughtred. http://jordanboats.co.uk/JB/iain_oughtred.htm will take you to his plan catalog. http://www.mavc2002.com/cyforum/viewforum.php?f=2 is a site devoted to Oughtred's biggest beach boat, the Caledonia Yawl. It has good info about other IO designs as well and many first hand trip reports. Search through here to find Dale Davenports CY with a slick looking tent set up on it. Something similar could be done with any of these boats. He also describes several week long trips with a Caledonia Yawl and a Ness Yawl.

These are glued lapstrake construction which is pretty easy to do and looks very traditional.

If I were your age and had my responsibilities (retired) I'd be thinking about a circumnavigation of Lake Superior in one of these boats.

You are now at my favorite stage of boatbuilding - selecting the next design. The internet makes it possible to examine in minute detail many very similar boats so you can find the "perfect" one! Enjoy.

[JimD]

The more I look at the open designs, the less interest I have in something with a cabin....

If you insist on this foolhardy course you may at least like to consider finding a real tent from a good outfitter and then design mods into the boat so you can pitch said real tent on it. Some of these so called makeshift boom tents that people make on their own look ridiculous and will never keep the mosquitos out.

[mizzenman]

On the subject of tire some wind.

I have found that the constat stimulation of the hearing is what tires me out. At the end of a windy day I can have ringing ears, just as if I had been to a rock show. Using hearing protection when the wind pipes up can reduce your fatigue level.

[perldog007]

If you insist on this foolhardy course you may at least like to consider finding a real tent from a good outfitter and then design mods into the boat so you can pitch said real tent on it. Some of these so called makeshift boom tents that people make on their own look ridiculous and will never keep the mosquitos out.

They make 'em tough up there in MN. I think the man will be O.K..

Netting from Wal-Mart will keep bugs out. Those boom tents have allowed many shelter who can't or won't have a boat with a proper cabin.

Rowing a boat with a sleeping cabin might be difficult As mentioned earlier, a cabin boat can be hard to get on and off a beach outside of a few designs. Bolger's birdwatcher comes to mind. it's a slow rower in the calm. This is the one Jim Michalak built some years ago. No motor - auxilliary is a set of oars.





The Dovekie is a factory built boat that looks like it would meet the sail, row, camp requirements. It uses a tent. No motor.



I asked Jim Michalak if anybody had rowed any of his Birdwatcher cabin designs, he wasn't away of any for certain. He drew oar ports into the plans for IMB, but two that he knows of use electric trolling motors.

Here is the IMB, the smallest of Jim's BW cabin builds AFAIK. It will sleep two if they're "good friends'.



The looks of the birdwatcher genre alone would stop many folks from even entertaining the idea. I'm not many folks though.


This kid did okay on a five day four night camp sailing adventure in his open boat and even slept under a makeshift tent on one night.

It's Michalak's piccup squared, my next ( and only second) build. This one will carry two but will only sleep one. This one will take a small motor 2hp or a trolling motor. Michalak has tested it with a trolling motor.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_-1yNAxJ0Y

Here's a really unconventional camp cruiser, Jason's Texas 200 boat with head, galley, and berth in an eight foot shoebox. He's completed the 200 mile raid twice in a PDR.

Don't know that he slept in it, but another puddle ducker reported spending a night in his. Ideal? certainly not, but feasible.

Maybe some will shudder contemplating this. To me, it's pure artwork.





So are those images of the Ness Yawl. Haven't really met too many boats I don't like.

Edit - Here's one I like for motor auxillary - WOW! another Bolger design.... The Caftish Beach Cruiser. Think this one was built by Bill Mckibben

15.5 ft x 6ftx 6 inch draft, ballast is water in flooding keel, rudder is protected by keel, open cabin, only needs 3-5 horses to drive when wind fails.




YMMV, as it should.

[weedeater64]

Me too. Newly registered part time lurker for years. Man looking through these
posts, I almost had myself talked into ordering some plans. There are some very nice boats shown here. But, I think I'm going to go with this,

http://www.friend.ly.net/users/dadad...malay_cat.html

for it's simplicity, deck size, which I'll make lager than shown, stability, plan price....

I plan to modify it a bit, narrower for trailering, or perhaps demountable, perhaps slightly longer or wider hulls for extra payload, multiple dagger boards/locations for ease of balancing/steering.

[perldog007]

Thats a sharp looking cat, don't know how I missed that one on the free pages. Used to crew my stepfather's hobie sloop as a teen. Mad fun.

I looked at many free plans before I started getting books from the library and buying books/plans. Every free plan I fell in love with needed me to weigh a lot less than I do

Really think the Harley8 is slick for a little pondcutter, but I weigh in around 300lbs. Maybe 1/4 inch of freeboard.....

Not sure about using a catamaran for a camp cruiser, but some have good storage in the hulls. What kind of auxiliary power would you use on that one?

[weedeater64]

don't know how I missed that one on the free pages

I don't thing it's publicly indexed any more, if I recall I found it with the way back machine.

Not sure about using a catamaran for a camp cruiser, but some have good storage in the hulls. What kind of auxiliary power would you use on that one?

I was thinking of some storage in the hulls, as well as having multiple compartments for safety. Definitely thinking oars/skulling maybe, possibly some sort of pedal/paddle arrangement.

[halfnelson]

Wow, I'm blown away by these responses. Will read later when I have an hour or two!

[Candyfloss]

Cruising up the beautiful Coromandel Coast one summer. Stopped in a lovely,isolated little bay called Boat Harbour. Was enjoying my dinner when a couple of Hobie Cats came into the bay & hauled up on the beach. Both had plastic 44 gallon drums lashed to their masts. One set up a boom tent, the other set up a tent on shore. They hauled out cooking equipment, had their meal. We took a bottle of wine ashore for a chat. They were cruising from Whitianga to Tauranga. In my 25ftr, possible in a day, but I prefer to take two. They were planning to take a week, stopping wherever they pleased. They were having a ball. I even envied them their carefree style of cruising. Sound like you?

[Bruce Hooke]

To me a lot of the cabin versus no-cabin question comes down to what you like, with a dose of how you plan to use the boat thrown in. Lots of people enjoy canoe and kayak camping so clearly, at least for some people, a cabin is not necessary for enjoying multi-day boating trips. This is especially true if you largely plan to camp on shore but at that point there is also the matter of why not just stick with your kayak if you are just going beach to beach. Having a boat you can sleep on does open up a lot of additional options since you can make overnight trips in places where there is no camping allowed on shore.

If you want to sleep on the boat it does seem to be possible to come up with a tent that can be set up on the boat to provide good shelter, but it takes some work. Of course if you are the kind of person who is comfortable with a bivy sack for sleeping then a tent may not really be necessary. On the other hand, it is certainly convenient to be able to drop the anchor and immediately duck into the cabin and settle in for the evening rather than having to set up a boom tent first, and take it down again in the morning.

Of course if the weather is fair and if there is enough of a breeze to keep down the mosquitoes and if you are in a remote enough place so you don't need the privacy of a tent, there is nothing wrong with sleeping "on deck" under the stars. A bivy sack could provide a way to do this and still at least have some basic rain and bug protection as long as you are happy basically living outdoors except when you are actually in your sleeping bag.

On the other hand, a cabin often goes along with the boat being decked and having a self-draining cockpit, which can allow you to go on bigger waters than would be safe in an open boat. However, if you are Minnesota the only nearby place this would really apply to is Lake Superior, and you would want to make sure you had a pretty seaworthy boat before you head out far from shore there. Not every boat with a cabin belongs out on the big lake!

Adding a cabin does add quite a bit more work to building the boat.

To me, what would make sense in Minnesota is an open boat that is relatively light and easily driven. Stow the gear in waterproof bags and enjoy the simplicity of an open boat. If you want to be able to sleep on board either get a bivy sack or build a boom tent of some sort.

P.S., I grew up in the Twin Cities so I am reasonably familiar with conditions in Minnesota...

[Bruce Hooke]

If you insist on this foolhardy course you may at least like to consider finding a real tent from a good outfitter and then design mods into the boat so you can pitch said real tent on it. Some of these so called makeshift boom tents that people make on their own look ridiculous and will never keep the mosquitos out.

My sense is that most camping tents would be very awkward to set up on the deck of a small boat, especially if you can't pull in next to the shore or shallow water. Every camping tent I've used can only really be set up by walking around the outside of the tent.

I see no reason why a properly designed boom tent could not be built that would be reasonably mosquito-proof.

[perldog007]

My sense is that most camping tents would be very awkward to set up on the deck of a small boat, especially if you can't pull in next to the shore or shallow water. Every camping tent I've used can only really be set up by walking around the outside of the tent.

I see no reason why a properly designed boom tent could not be built that would be reasonably mosquito-proof.

Bill Moffit built the prototype Mikesboat drawn by Michalak. He managed to find a tent that would pitch on board. Other than the plywood construction it would be a candidate. The boat is a 17x5'5" large pram, no cabin. The looks might be a bit plain for some.


Overall, I have to agree that the boom tent is much more likely to "work" on an open dinghy cruiser.

[Dale Genther]

Check out the Pocket Craft (I think that is the name) from Chesapeake Light Craft. I lot of boat in a small package.