Small boat trailer design w/light suspension, folding, good support?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thorne

Interesting stuff - thanks again!

Johngs - have you considered making the tongue removable? As I mentioned in an earlier post, you can cut the backbone/tongue, fit a 3'-4' sleeve over it bolted to one end, and use strong SS bolts and locking/double nuts to attach the other end tor trailering. Depending on how much melonseed hangs over the back of the trailer, that might let you put it in the garage without the hoisting system.

---

Thanks Thorne, My method works well, no cutting or additional parts. I think the boat hull weighs less than 150lbs, so it hoists easily.

I've repaired boats that were dropped in storage, so I'm a bit sensitive to that issue. And of course hoisting my 350lb dory is a much larger project, so I don't do it unless absolutely necessary...

Twin,

I'm perpetually on the same quest. My two little boats are only 150# & 70#. I was hoping your inquiry would unearth the perfect solution. King Trailers - up here in Ore-Gone - make an all-galvy, oil-bath trailer that has 12" tires, & is rated for 700#. They are willing to fit it with an extended tongue, or one can use the usual growth tricks on your own.

http://www.kingtrailers.com/trailers...l?catId=158082

http://site.mawebcenters.com/kingtra...lers/KB710.jpg

Dinghy trailers in the UK typically use a rubber torsion suspension system that is tuned to lower weight boats. They appear very similar to what is used in the expensive Trailex aluminum trailers. IMO it might be possible to buy just the axel/suspension system in the UK (at a reasonable price) and find the rest of the materials to complete it here in the US. That is my plan for a Shellback/rowing dinghy trailer.

Frank

This is the sort of thing Frank refers to http://www.indespension.co.uk/b2c/ap...N35=006&slnk=1 .I suspect the cost of shiping might be a bit steep.

John Beatty was unable to buy an off the shelf trailer in Fiji, so he designed and built one, buying the road wheels, suspension units and ball-hitch from the UK. He kindly wrote upthe build and supplied the drawings for the design which was for a Welsford Truant. The files are posted on the Welsford Yahoo Group so any one can join the group, many probably are members already, and download the files.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jwbuil...0for%20Truant/

I think it's the first time I have seen a design available for home build of a trailer trolley combination.

Possibly John might allow the files to be loaded on Google Docs so everyone can see them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thorne

.....Not willing to consider torsion axles, or suspension systems rated for 1000+lbs, both of which seem to be the only lightweight ones readily available from Northern Tool and other major retailers....

---

Does this rule out torsion axles all together, or does it just rule out torsion axles rated over 1000 lbs?

An aside: My boat, a Coquina, overhangs the end of its trailer by enough that the trailer's tail lights are hard to see, so I've been thinking about copying Thorne's rig and making a stern bracket to carry the lights and license plate up where they are visible. This would also allow me to remove the lights and store them in the car before launching the boat, thereby keeping them dry. Has anyone (besides Thorne) done this before? And is it even vaguely legal?

Rob,

Perfectly legal in the states I travel in.

I have a similar light bar, and have used it for several boats

The only non-legal bit of using a light bar is the side-lights part. I don't worry about the yellow side-lights not being part of the light bar setup, as the vastly greater visiblilty of the light bar (I have various reflectors and reflector tape plus the lights on mine) seems more important than any side lighting -- particularly when the hull is painted white.

I suppose there is some very slight legal risk in the light bar without the side lights, but suspect it would be a very small part of any overall legal fallout from an accident. Worth it in my book!

http://www.luckhardt.com/bl10-lightbar1.jpg

Make sure the wheel assembly is not simply attached to the end of a transverse leaf spring. My first canoe yawl once adopted an alarming and noisy list at 50 mph, and it took me a good 10 minutes to find where that wheel went. The spring had rusted through behind one of its attachment straps.

(grin) Yeah, I once lost an entire wheel off my little utility trailer on the M5 south of Worcester. Luckily it was the offside wheel, so when I pulled over to the side of the road, it passed me doing about 20' hops into the fields -- rather than into opposing traffic.

Again, this trailer design question isn't for my immediate needs -- I have two that should work OK for my boats. But for my next trailer, and for folks posting here looking for trailers, I wanted to open a dialog to see what the options are to purchasing a commercial boat trailer.

These light assembly's have sidelights on them, or are they just reflectors?

http://www.luckhardt.com/bl10-lightbar1.jpg

"An under 80"" combination tail light. Includes the following functions: stop,
turn, tail, rear reflex, side marker, side reflex and license light (""L"" suffix only)."

http://www.wholesalemarine.com/mm5/g...D-E440_med.jpgStarting At: $5.50

The sidelights that Thorne is refering to are the ones up nearer the front of the trailer. Given the numbers of trailers I see on the road all the time with no lights, broken lights, etc, I agree that you would be in very little danger of being ticketed for the lack of them as long as you had good side reflectors and a well working taillight/light bar set-up.

It's interesting that many light kits advertised as "complete" don't include those sidelights.

Bob

A few years ago, I read an article about building a wooden trailer, maybe designed by LF Herreshoff? It may have been in an old issue of Woodboat, but I couldn't find the reference using the back-issue search tool.

Ed

Here's an interesting thread on the side/clearance lights, requirements for which of course vary state-to-state
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001528.html

The lights -
http://www.iboats.com/Boat-Trailer-C...view_id.217593

And of course if you are concerned about these you can set up a wiring run to clearance lights on either side of the wiring harness for the light board. The lights themselves would attach to the sides of the boat (oarlocks?) or with magnets or ties to the sides of the trailer.

Conspicuity tape is most excellent.
Although not DOT required, it provides high visibility. If you value your boat this stuff is worth every penny.
I use it all the way down both sides of my trailers.

http://www.northerntool.com/images/p.../171706_lg.jpg

I did a little google search on trailer lights and found that, according to the BoatUS website's info, federal regs require that lights be permanently fastened to the trailer itself, and the rules on side/clearance lights vary from state to state. I am still inclined to go with the light bar and just hope I never run into a (ahem) law officer with an inclination toward strict compliance.

Have you eer seen a federal police officer? Let alone been stopped by one?
Those federal regs are for manfacturers. Look at your state laws (the one on the license plate) those can get you in trouble.

Found the article on the wooden trailer: Woodenboat #101 p82-85 "The Buckboard Trailer" by Richard Jagels with drawings by Arch Davis. Includes plans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ed Armstrong

Found the article on the wooden trailer: Woodenboat #101 p82-85 "The Buckboard Trailer" by Richard Jagels with drawings by Arch Davis. Includes plans.

---

You can get the plans and article on line for free, Google Books:

http://books.google.com/books?id=O7x...ler%22&f=false

Quite interesting.

Twin, if you decide to build one of these, I wanna look at it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ed Armstrong

Found the article on the wooden trailer: Woodenboat #101 p82-85 "The Buckboard Trailer" by Richard Jagels with drawings by Arch Davis. Includes plans.

---

Gosh -- I'll run right out and start taking apart the nearest buckboard! Where is the nearest museum that would have one...hmmmm.

An interesting design, but I'd modify it to take a commercial boat trailer axle and the lightest leafsprings possible. You wouldn't want to lend this to anyone, as a single slow jack-knifing (and I've seen a number of these on tricky reverses and beach launches) could crack the wood tongue and you might not know about it until (far) too late.

And as I mentioned earlier, ya gotta get whatever you build past the DMV inspectors. I've (re)registered a number of boats and trailers, including two home-build/modified trailers, without a problem -- but everything was close to a commercial design and the trailers all metal.

TRAILER **TOO LIGHTWEIGHT** ISSUES?

I wanted to raise another issue at this point, which is that boat trailers can be too lightweight for some trailering conditions. Last year I came very close to losing my Cosine Wherry on my HF mod trailer -- all due to very high winds. It was handling an extremely windy tow along the California Delta bottom land quite well and not showing any of the usual signs of instability or excessive speed.

But when the road ran up onto the top of the levee along the Sacramento River, the wind was blowing across the river with gusts over 70mph, and the boat and trailer were blown up onto one wheel at around 30 degrees -- the maximum that the towball would allow. I immediately slowed down and the rig slammed back down onto the windward tire, and was able to pull over and head slowly home.

I suspect that this would not have happened had I been towing my dory skiff (350lbs or so) on the galvanized EZLoader trailer (200lbs or so). But the Cosine Wherry is under 100lbs, and the HF trailer under 150lbs -- light enough to be flipped up by the gusts.

Why not look into ATV spring/shock combos...they arent the heaviest things in the world and the suspension is designed for quite a bit of travel. Getting the standard duty ones and possibly using a fulcrum to increase the force on the spring by the load should provide quite a cushy ride for not all that much dinero

They left off a few pages in that Google Books preview, unless I'm missing something. The WB article had dimensions and a detail for constructing the axle/spring support (you don't have to find one off of an old wagon ;)). I have not attempted to register a home-built trailer with DMV, though, and I can imagine they wouldn't be eager to allow a wood-frame structure on the road.

Ed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ed Armstrong

They left off a few pages in that Google Books preview,,,,,,Ed

---

That's really interesting! Just last night you could see more pages, including a dimensioned profile and a cross section looking forward at the axle. I'm not a conspiracy theory type, but I wonder if Google books has a little built in program that limits page access based on number of views in the hope of selling a few more books????

Try this: http://tinyurl.com/4l5aynw

You can download articles from Wooden Boat for very little money, dimes I think, so it would be easy to get a copy of the full article if you have no archive. The Google version was from WB's project book.

thorne, dont know how far you want to go on the subject, But I do remember in 2002 a french friend had brought 2 sailboats to raid finland on 2 trailors, the following year he came with a van, and a double trailer, he dis-assembled both trailers and stowed them in the van, and the boats went on the double trailer, I do recall the trailers were fully galvanized, completly adjustable on axle location and hull supports and as mentioned very easily disassembled and reassembled.

i just found a used holsclaw trailer. the price is very right. would it be a good alternative for either my chestnut freighter or penguin?
i plan on fitting cradles/bunks for either and maybe even carry both at the same time. i guess i'm wondering what people who have used the
holsclaw think about trailering with them.

How about something like this Thorne?

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/2178029486.html

I'm not sure what those pwc weigh, but seems they would be in your range.

John L - the Holsclaw is a wonderful trailer, so if you can get yours fixed up it will be well worth the money. Check for rust, and remember that on some of the smaller models you have to pull the hub and bearings to change wheels.

Juniper - While the PWC trailers might be OK for adding a longer tongue for heavier wooden boats, I don't see any rated for less than 1200 lbs, and many higher -- which probably indicates the use of 2000lb leaf springs. WAY too stiff for our small lightweight wooden boats!

http://www.shorelandr.com/pages/t_mo....aspx?type=pwc

I went to their site and you are correct...2100gvwr. Sorry for the lack of due diligence on my part.

Here's a link to someone's page with similar ideas on trailers:

http://www.shortypen.com/essays/trailer2/

One idea was to remove a leaf or two to make the suspension less rigid...makes sense to me. Four-wheel drive fanatics often add leafs to beef up suspension so it should also work in reverse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JuniperHeartPine

One idea was to remove a leaf or two to make the suspension less rigid...makes sense to me. Four-wheel drive fanatics often add leafs to beef up suspension so it should also work in reverse.

---

Been there, done that, have loud banging noises every time the HF trailer hits a bump. Not a good idea!

http://www.luckhardt.com/springs1.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JuniperHeartPine

....Here's a link to someone's page with similar ideas on trailers:

http://www.shortypen.com/essays/trailer2/

---

That's an interesting site. I followed the link to the Castle Craft trailer site and noticed the 95 pound Trailex single canoe trailer (unfortunately just 200 pound capacity). So does anyone know the details of Trailex's "unique rubberized steel" suspension that "virtually eliminates road bounce? I'd love to have a 100 pound trailer with a 600 pound capacity.

[QUOTE=Thorne;2857546]Been there, done that, have loud banging noises every time the HF trailer hits a bump. Not a good idea!

Thorne, stick a piece of oak in that space under the spring, it will quiet it right down

Jake - will do that. I've been holding out for a rubber spacer but never remember when I'm at the store...

Dave W - we'd probably all like that, as the Trailex trailers seem to be the only commercial ones easily available with a suspension rated at less than 1000lbs. But as my post earlier mentioned, there is one downside if the boat and trailer are uber-lightweight: the trailer and boat may be blown sideways/upwards and tipped over, or just blown into opposing traffic -- so you'd need to take greater care on windy days.

If your wanting to reduce the bounce on a generic trailer or one customized to work with boats under 600 lbs then what about using small motorcycle or moped shocks on the axle. They run from $13 and up and come in all shapes and sizes.
http://www.scooterparts4less.com/ALL_Shocks.htm

Rkler - read some of the earlier posts in this thread about the Holsclaw coil spring and shock suspension. It is fairly complex for a number of good reasons, all of which have to do with stability and a soft ride. As I've said several times here, I really don't want to risk either the boats or lives by experimenting with trailer suspension designs! And getting the DMV to approve one might be impossible anyway.

Thorne,

It seems to me that the affordable solution has to be based on a "standard" galvanised or aluminum trailer. So it will be sprung heavier than what you would like. I think that the way to deal with that is going to be with a secondary support system, that is a dolly, cradle, or other structure supporting the boat, which is padded, suspended, slung, sprung, or in some way partially isolated from the direct shocks of the primary suspension. It seems that any craft lightweight and fragile enough to require such special handling would be light enough to coble up some such little individual frame or cradle. I'm envisioning say a standard utility trailer with a simple rectangular flat bed and extendable tongue, and a little roll on roll off dolly customized for each boat with maybe some of those fat low pressure beach wheels that would help to absorb some of the shock.

Bob