New one from John Welsford

[Cedric Rhyn]

This is the first new one I've seen from John Welsford in a little while, its really good to see him back at it again.

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/pilgrim/index.htm

A few years ago I'd have been out in the backyard chopping plywood about 5 minutes after seeing this design, there is only a relatively small harbour where I live but just 20 miles away is one of the best small boat cruising grounds in all the world but it takes a tough boat to venture across that 20 miles and this one looks just the ticket.

He says that its related to the small fishing vessels of the English South Coast, thats a tough place to go sailing and if JWs successfully reproduced their seaworthiness then this could be something special.

Cedric

[Wiley Baggins]

This is the first new one I've seen from John Welsford in a little while...this could be something special.

Cedric

She sounds and looks to be a winner. Thanks for the post!

[John B]

a bulletproof pathfinder.;)

[BobW]

...deja vu all over again? :)

From last November...

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86953&highlight=pilgrim

[Larks]

...deja vu all over again? :)


that's rather funny:D:D

[Cedric Rhyn]

Yes, but as I understand it that was a proposal and whats there now is a completed set of plans with quite a number already sold.

There have been some changes as well, mostly very minor but they show that some thought has gone into the development.

Cedric


...deja vu all over again? :)

From last November...

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86953&highlight=pilgrim

[john welsford]

Its lunchtime, and here I am reading to see why my ears are burning. Thanks Cedric, long time no hear from you, all as ok as can be expected?

Here is a posting that I put in my own forum that might explain some of the rational behind the design of Pilgrim.

When setting out to design a new boat, I'll have a close look at what it is I am
trying to achieve, and then look hard at the historical precedents. In this
case I took the worst case for my own use of this boat which is a 70 mile haul
against a prevailing strong headwind in completely open waters and with
mountainous cliffs to leeward. There are reefs all along this coast, strong
tidal currents and nothing to windward all the way to South America about 5000
miles away so the waves have a long way to build up.
I looked around the world for an environment which generated similar
circumstances where there was a long history of small craft of a style that
would suit, and chose the South Coast of England where the strong winds of the
North Atlantic pile in to the shallow entrance of the English Channel with fast
tidal currents running the other way. There are reefs and cliffs, there is a
huge reef called "The Shambles" which will give you an idea what conditions can
be like there.
The fisheries in this area have been using small sailing and rowing boats since
well before Columbus was a twinkle in his parents eyes, and there is a line of
constant evolution from before Viking times that has seen some very distinctive
types produced that peaked in the late 1800s just before the advent of the
internal combustion engine.
Some time ago I took a set of drawings of an 1860s Fal River Oyster Boat, a 25
footer used for oyster dredging, long line fishing and crab potting along the
coast. Speed was a factor in this fishery as much of it was in tidal waters and
the first boat home got the best prices, seaworthiness is also important as the
crab pots were set in among the reefs and rocks on a desperately dangerous lee
shore and these boats had to be able to fish in all but the worst of conditions
as this area has among the highest proportion of gale force winds in any
longshore fishery.
This has generated extraordinarily seaworthy boats, with comfortable motions and
easy handling. They are good load carriers, make wonderful cruisers and fast
enough to embarrass many modern yachts.
I took the statistical information that I got from the drawings of the old girl,
and have endeavoured to produce hulls with similar "numbers". The first one was
my "Houdini" design and it was with real interest that I sailed her the first
time to see if I had succeeded in reproducing the good characteristics of the
original in a boat about half the length.
I was right, it worked, and with allowances for scale effect I have been
refining that ever since.
So. Pilgrim is closely related, numerically rather than visually, to the late
1800 fishing boats of the English South Coast, but I have had that ancestry in
mind when I drew the shape and style of this little boat.
The "Family" now includes Houdini, Swaggie and Sundowner, and Pilgrim is the
latest of the type.
All of these boats are intended to go voyaging, Houdini further than most 13
footers, Swaggie trans Atlantic and Sundowner Cape Horn or Winter North
Atlantic. Pilgrims practical limits are longshore cruising but in places where
an open boat would not normally be used.
Its not so long ago in historical terms that Cook and Vancouver surveyed large
areas of the Pacific Northwest, and Cook of course is prominent in the history
of New Zealand and Australia. Very little of this exploration was done in the
motherships, it was the junior officers and a crew in a small boat( typically
the ships boats on these expeditions were 18/19 ft long, smaller than most
people think) who went out for ays, or weeks on end to explore and chart the
coast.
Its hard to get a crew of four or five to go along with my wont to wear a blue
serge uniform and threaten to keelhaul or flog the ragged crew, so I plan on
singlehanded or two handed expeditions and and it is with this style of
adventuring in mind that I drew Pilgrim.


John Welsford






Wow - that does look good. Sort of Pathfinder with some improvements, especially the external ballast and the deeper skeg (better tracking?).

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/pilgrim/Pilgrim-Sheet-1.gif

Hopefully JW himself will drop by soon and give us some more info.

[David G]

Tony H - You beat me to it. The same questions were bubbling in my brainpan also.

John - I'd add to the list...

The keel sounds like a fairly simple form. How involved do you envision the mold & pour being?

She'll still be trailerable. What sort of trailer do you think she'll need, and how easy to launch/retrieve?

Cheers,

[john welsford]

Thanks for having me, and this is a general statement to forum members. I feel pretty welcome here, its nice to be able to participate and I do enjoy the generally civil tone of the discourse ( I dont go to the Bilge)

To answer, yes she could, but this rig was better suited to the particular design brief I had written myself. She would make a pretty yawl though and its well worth a thought.

Pilgrim is a rather heavier built boat than Pathfinder, sort of an expedition grade four wheel drive vehicle to Pathfinders Classic sporting touring car ( and for that matter AWOL s 1950s European drophead coupe ) and has almost all 3/8in sheet plywood over laminated stringer construction except an area from the turn of the stem back a little way where its cold moulded from two layers of 3/16in ply to take care of the twist and achieve the very fine entry that I wanted.
Although light in weight this boats very very solidy built.
Yes, there is room to build a cabin, the relatively high freeboard would make that quite roomy.

John Welsford


Thanks John, nice to see you here.

I really like Pilgrim. As always, some questions spring to mind.


She's a tad shorter and a tad beamier than Pathfinder, with exactly the same sail area. Is there any reason why she couldn't carry the Pathfinder gaff yawl rig instead of the gaff cutter as drawn? Some folks seem to like the yawl better for the range of options it provides...
Is she built the same as Pathfinder, right-way-up on a flat (but rockered) plywood bottom strake? I assume she is built using your lapstrake on stringers method.
Continuing with the theme of the first question, it appears she could be built in a cabin version, a la the cabin version of Pathfinder, using much the same cabin design?
This design has already started me daydreaming about camp sailing around the whole of Cape York, from Cairns to Karumba. What a great adventure that would be!:) Or just a weekend on any of a dozen rivers and lakes on the NSW coast - Wallis Lake, perhaps.

[john welsford]

Hi David,
I know the issues for a lot of people around casting lead and have made the shape as simple as possible. Plaster of paris in a heavy wooden box ( make sure its dry) will do it, and its a long shallow casting which is easier than a deep fin.

I once did a casting about this size using hard rammed clay and sand mix, it worked fine but the surface needed a bit of filler.

I have my eye on a trailer that has a terminally ill 16 ft fiberglass outboard speedboat on it. The boats a normal 17 deg veebottom and the trailer is a professionally built one that has a fair amount of adjustment in the side bunks, and having measured it up I think it will fit pefectly. I can get the whole rig for a few hundred bucks and after stripping all the fittings and equipment off the boat will take it to the landfill ( on its own trailer) leaving me with the job of fitting new wheel bearings and winch rope. The rest of the hot galvanised trailer is in very good shape.

I'll be towing it with a Mazda 626 sedan ( two litre four cylinder) manual transmission and dont expect any problems although its close to the cars maximum rated trailer load.

I expect to be able to launch and retrieve singlehanded off any normal boatramp, and if my front wheel drive car wont haul it up the ramp when the concrete is wet or slippery I'll chock the trailer and take the car up to the top, hook the anchor rope to the towhitch, through a snatch block on the trailer and back to the other end tied to something immoveable and it'll be like pulling a cork from a bottle of sparkling wine ( cant afford champaine )

I dont think I'd try to pick her up out of very shallow water on a beach, but leaving her on the beach until the tide has gone well out and holding her upright with the halyards to anchors, and winching her onto the trailer with the car disconnected is something I've done singlehanded with much bigger boats than this so its a matter of "where there is a will there will be a way".

John Welsford


Tony H - You beat me to it. The same questions were bubbling in my brainpan also.

John - I'd add to the list...

The keel sounds like a fairly simple form. How involved do you envision the mold & pour being?

She'll still be trailerable. What sort of trailer do you think she'll need, and how easy to launch/retrieve?

Cheers,

[matoi]

Hello!

I'm too quite attracted by both Pilgrim and some other JW designs. Willing to study Mr. Welsford's "Backyard boatbuilder" I tried to get it but without success. Does anyone know where could it be found? Also, if someone has a used copy that he doesn't need anymore, I would be interested to buy it.

Thanks, best regards,

Mato

[NickW]

Evening All

A very similar craft is Laurent Giles's Jolly Boat. It was the smallest of a range which went from 15' (the Jolly Boat) to the 32' Keyhaven Yawl, all designed for glue and screw plywood construction. I don't know whether plans are still available since their website is under construction. However, here's a link to a builder's brochure for a glass version giving the salient details of the design which was reviewed in Watercraft #21.
http://www.maths.manchester.ac.uk/~bl/personal/JollyBoat/JollyBoatBrochure.pdf

Regards

Nick

[matoi]

Nice boat Nick! I suppose you must have enjoyed it very much!

Regarding the book, I just noticed that Amazon updated their availability info to 1st of August... Just a bit more patience for me...

Best wishes, Mato