1930's Int. 14

[frank pedersen]

I thought I saw a thread about a 1930's Int 14, # 337 if I recall correctly. Maybe it was the one deleted by Andrew Craig-Bennett. Anyway, the reason I brought it up is that I have the names of the original owners if that should be of any interest.

[Hwyl]

Why did he delete the thread, more rudeness?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

It would be of great interest, thank you, Frank. I believe the correct sail number is K377 rather than K337 as she is a 1937 boat according to "Racing, Cruising and Design" - she looks, in terms of the tank layout and centreboard case, to be to the lines and construction of "Thunder", in that book, although the mast is definitely deck stepped. The builder's plate is missing but the name "Mercury" can be made out on the transom.

http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/acraigbennett/DSCF0981.jpg?t=1247007600

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Why did he delete the thread, more rudeness?

Not rudeness but it had turned into a discussion on who invented the planing dinghy, with a claim that Nat Herreshoff had done so thirty years before Fox; that may be so, but all I want to do is to repair one, so I was asking if anyone else had worked on an Uffa Fox I14, and for advice on my proposed method of proceeding.

They are a bit of a Chinese puzzle, constructionally, and they exist at the interface between boat building and fine cabinet making!.

[Hwyl]

It's interesting to see how many Fox "signatures" there are on there, the tiller hole/horse combination was used on Fireflies and the buoyancy tanks also look straight out of a Firefly

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Yes, isn't it! And whilst you can't really see the hull form very well in that picture, as soon as I saw her I said to myself "Swordfish"! But the Fairey dinghies lack the very pretty aft tumblehome as they had to lift off the mould.

[frank pedersen]

Thanks for your encouragement, Andrew. The book you simply must find, though it may be in the "rare book" dept. is " The International Fourteen Foot Dinghy 1928 - 1989," published by the The International Fourteen Foot Dinghy Association of Great Britain. It confirms that #377 was designed and built by Uffa Fox in 1937, that her original name was Mercury, and that the first owner was D. Fletcher. She was subsequently owned by R. H. Williams. My guess is that her lines are those of Alarm, which was No. 347, built in 1935 and sailed by the famous Stewart Morris to 3 POW wins. Thunder seems to be the next design innovation and also was built in 1937, but her number is 388. She won the POW once, sailed by no less than Peter Scott. The lines for both Thunder and Alarm appear in the book, but I am not able to scan them for you. Other notes fit with the idea that you have an Alarm hull:" . . .(she) had her buoyancy tanks built into the hull in the form of two side tanks carried well forward of amidships... Alarm also had the first thwart stepped mast, but this was not a success as it tended to bend too much. Her centerboard was also of interest, being a deep streamlined shape as opposed to the then popular hatchet shape."

There is another bit of history in the Alarm design. That hull is the one that Sandy Douglass used when he produced the first molded 14 hull in the U.S. It became known as the "One Design Fourteen" and almost 200 boats were built before the pressure of hull development made it not competitive. Then Sandy Douglass blew up the lines to 17 ft. and it became the Thistle. The same centerboard trunk and the thwart stepped mast are clearly seen in both designs. As if that was not enough, the Alarm 14 ft. hull was given a deck and it became the Jet 14 when it was paired with a Snipe rig. The Jet 14 is still an active class.

So you may ( I think it is certain ) have one of the most seminal small boat designs in history!

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Dear Frank,

Thank you very much. Can I trespass on your time a little further?

"Mercury"'s centreboard case is of the type shown in the drawings of "Thunder", with the roller on top, and a wide case for a wooden board, and she has the small bow tank shown in the drawings of "Thunder", so I think she may be of the "Thunder" model but with a deck stepped mast. I recall reading that "Thunder"'s keel stepped mast was an "owner's request item"

The hull construction is definitely of the "Thunder" type.

I see on the Uffa Fox website that they offer the drawings of both and also of "Eriskay" which was another 1937 boat. Could you let me know "Eriskay"'s sail number, as if that is closer to 377 that might be the set to buy. I've emailed them but have not had a reply.

[frank pedersen]

Yes, Andrew, this is becoming a fascinating detective story. You are correct that Eriskay is a virtual sister-boat. Her number is 375 and 376, Meteor, was not an Uffa Fox design. So they could have been side-by-side in the shop. I think the construction system for both Alarm and Thunder was the then state-of-art, complete with 7000 copper rivets hammered home for each hull. Eriskay's first owner was a "Miss B. Robertson," surely a liberated woman in her day.

Please keep us informed of your progress.

Frank

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Brilliant, Frank! Thanks very much indeed - now I know that there is a full set of drawings, extant and available for purchase, which is the second hurdle cleared (the first was finding a good lot of bending American Elm, 3/8" x 1/4" - but a friend has found some for me)...there are just a few dozen more...

Eriskay is extant, by the way, as she was sold by Peter Gregson at Woodenships about four years ago - I was in China and just missed her - which gives me some additional motivation.

I'm just off to check on the supply of no 13 copper nails...luckily we have Classic Marine round the corner from us...:)

[frank pedersen]

I'm trying to get someone with a scanner to help me post the lines of both Alarm and Thunder. In the meantime, I noted that another Alarm hull, #359 named Javelin, was at one time in the Poole Maritime Museum and may still be there. I still have my money on you having a version of Alarm.

Frank

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Well, I find that there are boat nails down to number 16 x 3/4"

Moray gave me a few to check for size on the boat.

I can post the drawings tonight as I have them in the five "pre-War annuals" - however I have been told by one who knows a lot about these boats that Uffa never published the "right" lines in his books - I think that "Alarm" has a little touch of hollow in her aft garboards which Thunder does not have, for example, but you can't see it in the drawing.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Sorry, drawings will have to be tomorrow as I spent too long on the actual boat tonight.

The construction is extraordinary; the hog and keel is a single piece of mahogany 14.5" wide and 14' long, carved down to 3/16" thick outboard and maybe 2" inboard. 14 strakes each side, all full length with no scarphs or butts. All 3/16" thick.

I think I should repair the planking damage first then deal with the inner skin and re-timber her.

Everything has gone grey but a very cursory scrape brings the colour back, All the mahogany must have come from the same log, it's so uniform...

[djyachting]

According to Tony Dixon, Uffa's nephew, he was in the habit of just making small alterations to the boats year on year.

Certainly the drawings of Thunder, 1937, in the Fourteen history show hollow garboards aft which aren't in the drawings of Thunder and Lightning a year later when the run was flat and wider.

I have a set of drawings which I think show Daring in about 1930, with an inboard rudder at the after end of the centreboard case sketched in pencil. Apparently the boat was a little twitchy to sail!

I note your boat hasn't a mast, but Julian at Collars has a drawing of the right mast for your boat - which I must get him to return - and he can make you one - only £600 ex VAT!

I have K414, Red Rover from 1939 which is in very much the same condition as your boat Andrew - apart from the fact I haven't started work yet. I even have the original mast and boom, and the rudder and tiller.

The standard fit-out was a small bow tank and short side tanks. Thunder and Lightning had longer side tanks I believe, and a photo in the history shows she had slatted seats at gunwale level for more comfortable sitting out.

Red Rover is horizontal planked on the outside, with a diagonal inner skin - the usual oiled calico between the two. There are literally thousands of copper clenches - not rivets - in the tiny steamed timbers and at every plank cross.

The Rogers family in Lymington restored the beautiful Phoenix from 1935 and sailed her at Cowes in the 80th Prince of Wales' Cup - even taking her out in 25 knots when the PoW race was cancelled.

In Norfolk the Thornhill collection is restoring Fourteens including Daring 1929. There are also some lovely boats at Upper Thames Sailing Club, including Tiercel, still winning races 73 years after being built, and Syonara another one from the 30s, as well as Cub, the mini 14. John Watling from UTSC owns some beatulful restored old Fourteens.

The Class had a wonderful display of boats from a Norfolk 14 of 1904 through to the latest all-carbon 2009 Pickled Egg design at the dinghy show in London earlier this year - including Daring and Barilea. The bronze centreboard of the Norfolk 14 weighed the same as the whole boat from 2009 - that's progress for you.

Apart from Red Rover which is one for the future, I have restored Barilea, KB27, the first non British boat to win the PoW and a Fairey Mk1 hot moulded boat, as well as Barracuda, 907, built like a grand piano by Souters of Cowes, cold moulded with triple book matched Honduras mahogany horizontal planking for her outer skin; the one and only Buller MkII - beatuifully built, but an odd shape and hard to sail downwind in a breeze - as well as Honey, a plastic Kirby VII from 1979 which now sports a carbon and Kevlar double bottom and a carbon rig.

I have just realised that, as a complete aside, all but Barracuda have 9 in the year, Red Rover 1939, Barilea 1949 and Honey 1979 - Barracuda spoils it by being 1967.

I used to be the 14 Association person responsible for the Classic and Vintage 14s and have access to the records etc, so if I can help, let me know.
Dick

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Dear Dick,

Thanks very much indeed.

David Villiers-Child had put me on to Collars for the spars and has very nobly arranged a supply of 3/8" x 1/4" CRE for the new ribs. (The stuff is unobtainable in Britain unless you want five hundred cubic feet!)

I still need a source of Honduras mahogany (swetenia macrophyllia) - ideally ripped to dimension.

A visit to Moray MacPhail at Classic Marine has established that the rib clenches are no: 16 x 3/4" nipped off short and turned with some no 14s and a few 13's, if you need to order some for RED ROVER . Malcolm (who restored the Morgan Giles 14 in the NMM) showed me how the clenches are done.

I have dropped a line to Tony Dixon for a set of the drawings for ERISKAY (which I know to be extant, as Peter Gregson sold her four years ago) since as Frank as pointed out above they were built next to one another, so I anticipate that they will be hull sisters.

One oddity of MERCURY is that there is no sign that she ever had a centreboard winch, though there are the vestiges of a Firefly-type double ended tackle (a much better arrangement, in any case).

No trace of slat seats.

She has the short side tanks and small bow tank. (I have already made a mental note that before going anywhere near water she is going to get some airbags!)

Very few of her bronze fittings survived her time in the hedge before Malcom rescued her, so I will in the fullness of time need patterns for all of these.

There are a brace of bronze tube self bailers but I am told by those who know (I grew up in gaff cutters!) that they are not original.

Mast is deck stepped; chainplates on forward side tank bulkheads.

Right now I need all the advice on restoring Vintage Fourteens that I can get!

The next thing for me to do is to get a set of the drawings and then call on as many people who have done/are doing this work as possible and pick their brains!

[johnw]

Gee, Andrew, I only made one posting on Capt. Nat. Didn't mean to hijack the thread, I figured you'd be interested in the side issue and pull it back to the main topic easily. I'm sorry if the thread drifted away from you, that was not my intention.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

John, I'm very interested in the topic of planing dinghy development - shall we start a thread on that in "design"? I just wanted to keep this one on "repair and restoration" as I need all the help I can get!

[johnw]

I appreciate that, and again, apologies. Looks like a very worthy project.

Sure, I've got a few appointments I must see to, then I'll be happy to have a go at the topic in 'design.'

[peter radclyffe]

john moody, devon may have honduras

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

john moody, devon may have honduras

Thanks for that lead, Peter - I'll follow it up.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

john moody, devon may have honduras

Thank you, Peter

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

This is what I think I have got:

http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/acraigbennett/scan0004.jpg?t=1247226192

Centreboard case and bow tank look "right" - she has the curving top to the c/b case for the roller hung centreboard that Uffa brought in that year, and the c/b slot is wide, for a wooden board weighted with lead, but the mast is deck stepped - Uffa makes the point in the text that "Thunder"'s keel stepped mast was unusual.

[RFNK]

What are your plans for this one Andrew - father and son sailing? Rick

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Plans are to restore her slowly and carefully, Rick. I do intend to get her into a sailing condition, if I possibly can, but she will be "sheltered water only". The family sailing dinghy collection (which needs pruning!) is an Albacore and two Fireflies and a certain young man keeps hankering after an IC but he will have to grow a bit more, first.

[RFNK]

International Canoe? Eric Dunbar, the guru I guess of IC sailing in Oz used to live just a couple of hundred metres along the shore from us and hosted the national championships here a few years ago. In fact I'm pretty sure there were overseas competitors involved too. Anyway, it was a most interesting event. Really interesting but difficult boats. The IC Association of Australia has quite a nice website. Most of the pictures in this gallery set from that website were taken at those national championships. Eric's boat is KA 1 and Eric is the fellow that looks a bit like Robinson Crusoe:
http://www.internationalcanoe.yachting.org.au/site/yachting/internationalcanoe/downloads/Photo%20Gallery/ICAA%20Gallery.pdf

This is the website - it's worth having a look at the Youtube footage, especially the last minute or so:
http://www.internationalcanoe.yachting.org.au/

Good luck with the International 14. I'm sure I've never seen one of those but anything involving Uffa Fox is sure to ooze quality.
Rick

[Uncle Duke]

A slight tangent: the Uffa Fox web page (http://www.uffafox.com/) says:

The Uffa Fox 14 called Mercury needs a home. She is listed in the International 14 ft dinghy 1928-1970 Handbook byT J Vaughan, sail number 377 built 1937 by Uffa Fox and first owned by D Fletcher.
You might want to update them....:D

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

A slight tangent: the Uffa Fox web page (http://www.uffafox.com/) says:

You might want to update them....:D

I've been trying but they don't reply! :D

[Rob Hazard]

Andrew,
I've been hoping that you might post a few more photos of your find; interior shots, details of interest. You have a real piece of yachting history there!

[The Bigfella]

That shed photo belongs in Lark's shed thread too....

[Clinton B Chase]

I love Fox designs...you are right Gareth about the signature design elements. Very distinctive. I am soon to be a proud owner of a FF that goes way back to 1946. I believe the hull # is 43. She is incredible condition. I like to imagine that Uffa Fox himself supervised the building of this early boat! The 14 looks awesome. I love the benches. Look forward to more, and keep an eye out for my post on the Flying Fifteen when I have her in my hands.

Cheers,
Clint

[The Bigfella]

I love the FF - it was the first monohull that I ever coveted.

[RFNK]

That shed photo belongs in Lark's shed thread too....
:confused: What shed photo? Rick

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

centreboard case (this is why I think she is the "Thunder" design):

http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/acraigbennett/DSCF0991.jpg?t=1247427376

Ignore the trailer strap and spreader and the rotten remains of a mast...

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Bow tank (no top)

http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/acraigbennett/DSCF0990.jpg?t=1247427518

Note the bronze, screw in, drain plugs!

[Rob Hazard]

Andrew, a couple questions:
1) Is the centerboard winch still in the boat? I've seen the side view of it in drawings posted on this thread, but never a photo of one.

2) Given the sandwiched calico construction of the hull, how do you plan to restore it? It sounds like a restorer's nightmare to me!

Lots of people get all gaga over Herreshoff's daysailers around these parts, but this dinghy has a real cachet of her own! I can't wait to see what you do with her!

[keith66]

Some years ago i aquired an Int 14, she turned out to be "Destiny" built by William Souter in 1948 for himself. Apparently she was almost certainly the last of the mahogany multi skinned close ribbed boats. she had been given to a local sea scout troop who left her outside for years sat on old tyres, the hog was shoved upwards at the back of the case leaving her bottom very distorted, having been full of rainwater she was beginning to go rotten aft when i got her.
The bottom planking from midships to aft was so brash & weak that i ended up selling her to the Commodore of our yacht club as a decoration, fitted with an alloy space frame to reinforce her weak bottom she resides in the roof of Benfleet yacht club.
The trouble with boats like these is once they go too far there is little you can do to repair them, I know Colin Henwood rebuilt one years ago and he frankly admitted it was a nightmare and cost way too much!
I suppose if you had a really bad one you might be able to strip of the outer layers & cold mould a new hull to the original inside layer but it would be very difficult due to the lightness of construction.
I did this with a Saunders launch but thats a story for another thread!

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Andrew, a couple questions:
1) Is the centerboard winch still in the boat? I've seen the side view of it in drawings posted on this thread, but never a photo of one.

2) Given the sandwiched calico construction of the hull, how do you plan to restore it? It sounds like a restorer's nightmare to me!

Lots of people get all gaga over Herreshoff's daysailers around these parts, but this dinghy has a real cachet of her own! I can't wait to see what you do with her!

Interestingly, there is no sign that a centreboard winch was fitted! I know what they look like - they are a differential winch with two drums on the same axis - a large diameter drum has a rope wound round it which the crew pulls on, thereby winding a wire, attached to the centreboard, round the smaller diameter drum. Frankly, the alternative system, in which a tackle with two single blocks secured forward in the boat and a single block on the centreplate can be hauled in or released on either tack whilst sitting out, has always seemed to me to be better and unless I can find evidence that she had a winch that's what will go back!

These boats also had wire retaining halyard winches built into their masts!

I'm told that the construction was never exactly watertight, and crews went aboard with a sponge and a bailer even in a flat calm.

I think that any attempt to replace the membrane would result in the complete destruction of the boat, so I intend to cheat. I think that if I use Coelan rather than orthodox varnish I will get a better waterproof membrane than the original.

However, there is damage to the outer hull in places and I will have to glue in graving pieces. I'm making temporary part moulds for this. If, having done that, I can sit her in a framework of external moulds to the outside of plank, I may be able to replace the inner skin in one or two places by sliding a sheet of 1.5mm veneer (approx 1/16") of the original width (6") in and fitting it to the hog and gunwale, before re-ribbing.

At least, that's the plan!

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Some years ago i aquired an Int 14, she turned out to be "Destiny" built by William Souter in 1948 for himself. Apparently she was almost certainly the last of the mahogany multi skinned close ribbed boats. she had been given to a local sea scout troop who left her outside for years sat on old tyres, the hog was shoved upwards at the back of the case leaving her bottom very distorted, having been full of rainwater she was beginning to go rotten aft when i got her.
The bottom planking from midships to aft was so brash & weak that i ended up selling her to the Commodore of our yacht club as a decoration, fitted with an alloy space frame to reinforce her weak bottom she resides in the roof of Benfleet yacht club.
The trouble with boats like these is once they go too far there is little you can do to repair them, I know Colin Henwood rebuilt one years ago and he frankly admitted it was a nightmare and cost way too much!

I suppose if you had a really bad one you might be able to strip of the outer layers & cold mould a new hull to the original inside layer but it would be very difficult due to the lightness of construction.
I did this with a Saunders launch but thats a story for another thread!

Luckily one problem that "Mercury" has not got is rot!

Just everything else! :)

I'm absolutely sure that restoration would not be a commercial proposition - it might even be cheaper and simpler to build new.

However, I've had a life long love affair with these boats and I wanted a "total rebuild project" to try my hand at, so here I go!

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I've got a set of the drawings for "Eriskay" K375 coming from Tony Dixon who is very kindly re-taking the offsets for me from the original plans.

And Keith66 has turned up a mast step and some other bits.