Six hours, 31 screws and 7 bolts later...a new set of problems is exposed (pic)

[Concordia..41]

As a case in point for Leggett, Chad and anyone else looking at "project boats" - there is always something left to be exposed and that something is likely to need fixing :rolleyes:

http://www.sailingwithsarah.com/Pic/Port.jpg

More pictures of more problems and some pictures from the A&R construction at:

http://www.sailingwithsarah.com/exposingcheekpieces.htm (http://www.sailingwithsarah.com/exposingsternknee.htm)

BTW - if anyone has a better name for this than cheek piece, please let me know.

Cheers!
-M

[ 10-08-2002, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: Concordia..41 ]

[imported_Spissgatter W-9]

Well, you know where not to put the fasteners. This reminds me of what my boat's previous owner went through. (he gave me a 3" binder with all the gory details) After replacing deck, cabin and relaminating frames, he found rot in the stem. Out came half the lower planking, floors and keel pieces. I finished replanking, caulking and am now fairing the hull. Don't know what to offer you except you have a pretty boat that will look gorgeous when you get to the state mine is in. I look forward to more pictures of your progress. smile.gif

[The Schooner Etain]

Saw the pictures on the site. Nice shots there.

Looks like the worst of it is the floors, they look really nasty. Oh well...I imagine I'll find some things hidden behind stuff as I go through on Etain too. Have some satisfaction in knowing that your not the only one I guess. smile.gif

Chris

[Thad]

After 50 years of sailing, things do happen. The "cheek pieces" I would call the stern knee, faired to make the plank landing but structurally connecting the keel to the stern post. Either the bolts or the timbers have failed to allow the gaps. Supporting the ballast while sailing and the rudder, bearing the lateral pressure of the water underway, these joints are important to the integrity of the structure. Likewise, the floortimbers tying the sides of the boat together and the keel in place (which keel in turn has the ballast bolted to it) demonstrate through their failure the stresses they have worked with through the years as well as the material failures of age.

[ken mcclure]

This needs to be recorded somewhere.

Margo, I think you have found the first instance of a problem that can't be addressed with duct tape!

I'm sorry to see it but I'm glad you found it on the stands and not in the water!

[Rich VanValkenburg]

This is a dumb thing to say, but I'll say it anyway. I feel your pain, I've been there. This is what I'm working on for Sonja right now. When I pulled the planks off in December the stern knee was tight to the keel and sternpost. By May there were 1/2" gaps all around from drying out.

[Dan McCosh]

I'm wondering if the gaps are a symptom of the boat losing shape. There doesn't seem to be much support under the keel, and the ballast--which stiffens the center section, is removed. If the boat is in effect hanging up in the air with support on the stem, planking, etc, it could be sagging in the middle. The floors do look bad, but it is odd that they also have a large gap undeneath them, more that would be expected from shrinkage. All this is speculation based on the pictures, but it might be worth checking out. It's also possible that the soft floors weren't supporting the keel boilts, which allowed the keel to sag downward under the ballast pressure when the boat was being sailed. I'd check some basic dimensions against the plans.

[Thad]

I like the shrinking theory (the gap is consistant, and oak will shrink lots when dry as Rich points out, both pieces shrinking and you are in the heat however humid). Still, the bolts are subject to failure and when you have her apart is the time to replace those important structural components. Do not dispair.

[cs]

But Margo think of the extreme satisfaction you will have when Sarah is done and launched.

Chad

[Wild Wassa]

Margo, there is one real plus. You will know your boat. Very few people actually do, I find.

Warren

[The Schooner Etain]

Those last two comments are my mantra right now!

Think about how she'll look when she's launched, and you'll know every little detail about your boat!

Sometimes it really helps, other times...not so much.

Chris

[Concordia..41]

Thanks for all the responses - on and off Forum.

In no particular order.

Ken, you are so bad. I hope your wife does not allow you duct tape (other than the roll you hide in the trunk of the car). Dave's doesn't :D

Rich - Re: drying out - We've got far too much going on - and having been out of the water for going on three years now, but at the WBS seminar, Giffy Full suggested draping visqueen [sp?] from the toe rail and putting a couple of humidifiers under the boat. He was talking about swelling a boat prior to launch, but would a few days of "swelling her where she sits" get you the shape back????

The concensus is stern knee, and I've changed the web page accordingly.

Today we removed the triangular piece below the damaged area and the plank directly above (both port and starboard). I'll put together another post showing good examples of broken floor bolts, major drying out (definately has happened on our watch as there's clean wood visible in the cracks), plus the multiple repairs done over the years where others have tried to address the problem.

Nick Xynides, the shipwright who owns the yard where we are, looked over everything and says the problem was caused by shrinkage. I don't know if it's visible in the pictures, but the forward area that's a little curved up from the keel is also narrower width wise. Nick looked it over for a minute and ran his thumb down from the edge of the floor to the stern knee to the keel and pointed out that the front of the stern knee is about 1/4" narrow in addition to the upward curve. Same indention on the other side so it's not like it's shifted or anything. It's just plain old drawn up and in.

The multiple repairs also show it's been a problem for some time. It looks like several repairs were made without without pulling the engine.

Nick and Dave measured for a new stern knee and I'm afraid there's an oak tree somewhere about to give it's life for a good cause :eek:

You guys are the best! :D

[ 10-08-2002, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: Concordia..41 ]

[Norske3]

A boat is like a house .....look First at the foundation..."roof and wall" repairs will not keep the "rain" out if the foundation is crumbling.. ;)