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Tylerdurden
06-30-2009, 03:40 AM
"Came from an e-mail and unable to vouch for accuracy. The cops I know say much the same thing though."

Note From a Cop

The fear on the street is palpable. Ever since the election of Barack Obama as President of these United States in November 2008, coupled with the election of a democrat party majority in both the U.S. House and Senate, concern for the United States and personal safety has ignited like a fire in dry grass.

Sales of guns – black guns, rifles, shotguns and handguns (particularly 9mm) everywhere, have gone through the roof. AR15s have literally flown off of dealer shelves, and only now in the spring of 2009, have I seen the display samples of ARs begin to reappear on the wall of my favorite shooting emporium after the initial post election rush.

Manufacturers of ARs are still working to catch up and some of the major suppliers are as much as 150,000 guns behind. Not only that, ammo is in the shortest supply I have ever seen in the 43 years of my shooting life. Have you recently tried to get 5.56mm, 9mm or even 380 ammo?

Supplies of 5.56mm and 9mm ammo are in short supply due to the black gun buying craze; .380ACP because of the rise in people getting concealed carry permits and the resurgence of interest in convenient 380 handguns like the fine Ruger LCP. In fact, in doing a review of the Ruger LCP, my gun store only had a small supply of ONE .380 round on hand, the Winchesters 95-grain SXT, which they had just gotten in. Unfortunately, I had to do a 30-round review of that pistol. There was none other to be found.

What is odd about this new fear is that it is not coming from the average citizen gun owner out there, but it is coming from what to me is an almost shocking source: street cops.

Street cops and SWAT cops that I know from various agencies – rural, suburban and metro – in my area are scared. Cops that before November 2008 never gave much thought (that I knew of anyway) to politics or more
importantly to gun rights. For the most part, these are the guys that didn’t generally have any interest in shooting or gun ownership beyond keeping track of where their duty gun is, and a few of them didn’t even do that so well.

The guys I am talking about now are some of the same guys who used to not even carry off duty on a regular basis- but not anymore. They don’t scare easily, defenders of the Constitution of this State and the United States (as our oath of office reads), have been buying ARs, survival gear, and all the ammo they can lay their hands on. All of them (or I should say “us”) have been discussing and have been acquiring guns to provide a layered perimeter defense.

What are we suddenly so afraid of? Well in our discussions it seems to boil down to four areas.

First, fear of federal government intrusion into our lives. Every time I look at or listen to the news, there is something new and intrusive coming out of the Obama administration and this Congress. New tax schemes, government-run Canadian-style healthcare, a volunteer citizen defense force (whatever that is, what happened to the National Guard?) equipped with funding similar to our military, forced voluntary “service” after retirement, a lack of a southern border with hordes of illegal and criminal aliens pouring over our border, the swine flu scare as well as government forced closing of thousands of privately held Chrysler and GM dealerships, which will be the final nail in the coffin for these companies and the list goes on and on.

But these items in the news are just the tip of the iceberg. We can’t see the full impact of these actions yet, but we don’t know what was added into the thousand of pages of stimulus package bills in the dead of night yet. I predict however that when the plans contained in the stimulus packages go into effect, a lot of us are going to be surprised if not shocked by what has suddenly and sweepingly changed.

What also scares us is the second, well-founded fear that there is an assault weapons ban looming, one that would make the Clinton Ban appear like a look of disdain in comparison. I remember well the 1990s and the Clinton years: the rise of militia groups, the “black helicopter” rumors and paranoia, all of which was motivated by the Brady Law and the Assault Weapon’s ban. What if a new ban comes requiring registration or confiscation and turn-in of banned weapons as what happened in Australia?

...I foresee much civil disobedience coming down the road. Americans are citizens, and not subjects like the British, Canadians or Australians. They just don’t always obey the law blindly and not one officer or citizen that I spoke to said anything like “I hope I get to keep this gun for awhile before they are banned; They are fun to shoot, so I would hate to give it up.” It isn’t going to happen, so the cop on the street and the soldier on the base needs to think now what he will do if the orders come down. I think you all get what I am saying here.

Which leads me to the third fear, that there is a revolution coming, yes, a revolution on the scale of the original American Revolution. You can hear this topic discussed on many of the talk radio shows by even the big name hosts. The possibility of an armed revolution against the U.S. government being discussed, albeit very gingerly and fleetingly and as something to be avoided, which it is. I never heard this mentioned in the 90s. One of my quietest, low profile officer friends brought it up the other day.

He said that at some point in the near future, he felt there is going to be an armed revolt if things keep going the way they are. Something has got to give. I was shocked. Yes, I had heard this from some of my more radical
cop friends in the past, but to hear it from a guy like this was unprecedented. Now, these guys are not saying this will happen to foment revolution, preach sedition or to even participate. They just want to be ready if it happens, to at least defend their families, because number four on the fear list is general societal chaos.

Cops fear for their parents, wives, children or grandchildren more now than ever before. Most cops are encouraging their spouses and loved ones to get concealed carry permits. Not only that, but some of these same cops are buying gun mounts for their personal cars so they can carry an AR in the family ride at the ready all the time. They are also strapping on heavier forms of off-duty hardware. I have other friends that are issued ARs or subguns for tactical team use, who always have their gear with them and are planning on just commandeering these weapons for personal use in defending hearth and home.

Final Notes

This is pretty heady and maybe even dangerous stuff. Know fully that I am not advocating anything here. I am reflecting to you what I see and hear going on around me, and maybe saying things that haven’t been said in the
open, until now. It is something to think about.

Written By; Scott Wagner is a Police Academy Commander and Professor at Columbus State Community College in Columbus Ohio, and Commander of the 727 Counter Terror Training Unit. A 29 year law enforcement veteran, and current Deputy Sheriff, he is the Precision Marksman for the Union County Sheriff’s Office SRT Team.

LeeG
06-30-2009, 04:00 AM
LIKE FIRE IN DRY GRASS!!!!?

gOSH, THANKS MARK TYLERDURDEN TO INFORMING US OF THIS THREAT. I HAVEN'T READ THE WHOLE LETTER BUT IT SURE LOOKS LIKE SMETHNG

LeeG
06-30-2009, 04:02 AM
They don’t scare easily, defenders of the Constitution of this State and the United States (as our oath of office reads), have been buying ARs, survival gear, and all the ammo they can lay their hands on. All of them (or I should say “us”) have been discussing and have been acquiring guns to provide a layered perimeter defense.

A LAYERED PERIMETER DEFENSE!!!

LeeG
06-30-2009, 04:06 AM
[QUOTE=Tylerdurden;2242983]"Came from an e-mail and unable to vouch for accuracy. The cops I know say much the same thing though."


[QUOTE]

HEY MARK TYLERDURDEN, THE LINE IN QUOTATION MARKS,,IS THAT FROM YOUR EMAIL TOO? DUDE, ARE YOU QUOTING YOURSELF?

ChaseKenyon
06-30-2009, 04:41 AM
Read Robert Heinlein's Time enough for love.

Always be prepared to defend yourself and even more importantly, your loved ones. If not you are not a man just a speaking chimp. :)

The Bigfella
06-30-2009, 05:02 AM
A new classic. I was pissing myself laughing as I read it. Sorry, gotta go change this subject's nappy....

Crap like this, and the growing number of those propogating it, is why I have a sane American next door neighbour. The net effect is a significant lowering of the US collective IQ

PeterSibley
06-30-2009, 05:09 AM
Fear is good for sales .

Nicholas Scheuer
06-30-2009, 05:20 AM
Guess we made a mistake, huh? We shoud'a voted for more sleaze-bag Repubs, eh?

Yeah, McCain and Palin were just the ticket to avoid a Revolution, huh?

Moby Nick

Tylerdurden
06-30-2009, 07:12 AM
The naysayers could not see it coming if it bit them in the arse.

Those who can step back and see the trends know what is coming and prepare for it.

Just run through all the recent and pending legislation.
Hate crimes
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s909/text

Megan Meier Cyberbullying Prevention Act


http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-h6123/show

Clean water
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s787/text

Then the Cap And trade Green bill with all its Green cops like in GB
and there is tons more along wit pandemic laws and regs changed with forced vaccinations and such.

Now we have an entire brigade assigned to CONUS for security in spite of Posse Comatatus and millions doled out to KBR to build and manage camps to house three million. (three million who?)

Add in Obama's Youth Police and it all adds up to total tyranny.

The list goes on and on but still the sleeping ignore the bridge out signs.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c350/mudhutwarrior/train.jpg

Nanoose
06-30-2009, 07:15 AM
"...government-run Canadian-style healthcare..." is "intrusive"? :rolleyes: :p

Rigadog
06-30-2009, 07:48 AM
"...government-run Canadian-style healthcare..." is "intrusive"? :rolleyes: :p

dying from lack of care is really intrusive.

The Bigfella
06-30-2009, 08:45 AM
millions doled out to KBR to build and manage camps to house three million. (three million who?)



Is this like the camp in Wyoming you posted about that was actually in North Korea?

Joe (SoCal)
06-30-2009, 09:18 AM
Note From a Cop- Tree of Liberty Forums (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread477529/pg1)


Note From a Cop - Survivalist Forum (http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?p=757636)


Note From a Cop - Expedite Trucking Forums (http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/soapbox/37107-note-cop.html)

Any one see a pattern here ????

John Smith
06-30-2009, 09:25 AM
The naysayers could not see it coming if it bit them in the arse.

Those who can step back and see the trends know what is coming and prepare for it.

Just run through all the recent and pending legislation.
Hate crimes
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s909/text

Megan Meier Cyberbullying Prevention Act


http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-h6123/show

Clean water
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s787/text

Then the Cap And trade Green bill with all its Green cops like in GB
and there is tons more along wit pandemic laws and regs changed with forced vaccinations and such.

Now we have an entire brigade assigned to CONUS for security in spite of Posse Comatatus and millions doled out to KBR to build and manage camps to house three million. (three million who?)

Add in Obama's Youth Police and it all adds up to total tyranny.

The list goes on and on but still the sleeping ignore the bridge out signs.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c350/mudhutwarrior/train.jpg

Sadly, I think there's some merit in this. The blindest people I know are the white folks who are really racist. I don't know how many there are, but I've no doubt there's enough of them, and they are emotional enough, and hatefull enough, to cause trouble.

That said, why would we let them dictate our vote?

LeeG
06-30-2009, 11:09 AM
seriously Mark Tylerdurden is any of that post your own words or are you quoting yourself?

here's more from the comment sections. Reading through them it exemplifies the rich field of ignorance and fear that Cheney could rely on for the GWOT. Mark, you are doing the work of your imagined enemy by cultivating fear. What a comedy.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Came from an e-mail and unable to vouch for accuracy. The cops I know say much the same thing though."

"We are ALL worried about Osama Obama...... at least those of us that have a working brain.
We all know what he is, and it's Not going to be good, when he's done with his Master plan."

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny.
When the government fears their people, there is LIBERTY."

John of Phoenix
06-30-2009, 11:09 AM
Obama's Youth Police

I love to see a link on this one, Mark.
________________

Palpable fear? Of course. Have you listened to cheney recently? Or for that matter, fox news?
Fear, hate and lies. 24/7

ishmael
06-30-2009, 11:42 AM
I've noticed a slight tightening of the sphincter, but I couldn't attribute it to Obama. It's a response to the downturn in the economy combined with a general unease over a loss of some or our civility.

Kevin, who runs a small auto repair business across the road, recently installed swing gates at the front of his drive. He plows my drive in the winter, and we talk now and then. I asked him about the gates. He told me that a friend had come in and ripped him off. Some friend! I didn't take it as incipient civil unrest, but it wasn't a good sign.

"Trust in Allah, but tie your camel."

John of Phoenix
06-30-2009, 11:50 AM
A "civilian national security force" sounds like a Sheriff's Posse or Auxillary Police Force. Hardly "Youth Police".

Robmill0605
06-30-2009, 12:05 PM
You are wasting your time posting this.

The Obama cheerleaders on this forum hear no evil, see no evil when it comes to the Messiah. They are cool-aid drinkers all.
Story after story after story in the media, of gun sales beyond any previous number of sales surveys nationwide. Gun dealers completely sold out of ammunition, and still these liberals refuse to acknowledge that it is because of Obamas election and the democrats agenda.

ishmael
06-30-2009, 12:13 PM
"Gun dealers completely sold out of ammunition, and still these liberals refuse to acknowledge that it is because of Obamas election and the democrats agenda."

That's an understandable reaction to what is perceived as an anti-gun agenda. When they actually propose draconian controls, I'll oppose them. I think we've got enough legislation on board. But I'm not going to panic.

Robmill0605
06-30-2009, 12:46 PM
Whatever floats your boat John. Call it whatever pleases you. You asked and I answered but included hints that anyone willing to go beyond entertainment value would quickly understand the intended direction. Ignore it at your own peril just like the average Germans did.


The Germans had the Hitler Youth and now we have the Obama Youth, being indoctrinated by liberals and teachers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdPSqL9_mfM

John of Phoenix
06-30-2009, 12:58 PM
So now Obama is Hitler. Jesus. Keep yer shootin' irns handy boys. The end is near.

ljb5
06-30-2009, 12:59 PM
Fear is an industry.

Some people manufacture fear to help them sell products.

Some people stock up on fear.

ccmanuals
06-30-2009, 01:08 PM
I only know one cop and he is my son in law. He tells me that crime has significantly gone up in the Dallas/Ft Worth area but the concensus amongst the law enforcment community is that it's due to the economy and unemployment. There has never been a problem getting guns in Texas.

Also, I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone in law enforcement who is not in favor of gun control. So, what are we doing here, trying to blame the doctor for helping to find a cure?

ishmael
06-30-2009, 01:13 PM
Talk of a civilian defense force got me pondering. Used to be, back when, there was a civilian firearms program. My memory is a bit foggy on it, but I seem to recall that after WWII there was a recognition that with people more and more concentrated in cities there was a loss of the ability of people to fire a rifle accurately. So, for a modest fee you could purchase a surplus M-1 and get instruction, all through the federal guv'mint.

I know I'm not making this up, but someone else can probably clarify it, and its current disposition. Seems a fine idea to me.

bobbys
06-30-2009, 01:48 PM
When i wuz 17 the democrats wanted to give me a automatic rifle and send me off to VN to go kill some people i never even heard of.

I was drunk most of the time and inhaling.

Now im 56 own Rentals, have a Bizness pay Taxes dont drink{just a wee bit for me constitution ;]} and now the Democrats say im Unfit to own a gun!!!:eek:

ishmael
06-30-2009, 01:57 PM
Bobbys,

You are clearly an unbalanced 'Nam vet, and need help. Having a gun is out of the question, no matter your training. We'll find a way to help you, even if it means bankrupting the entire system. Be patient, we're here to help. Oh, and have a good day.

bobbys
06-30-2009, 02:00 PM
Bobbys,

You are clearly an unbalanced 'Nam vet, and need help. Having a gun is out of the question, no matter your training. We'll find a way to help you, even if it means bankrupting the entire system. Be patient, we're here to help. Oh, and have a good day..

No i did not go but im 1a and still on call to save Australia from falling if need be:)

ccmanuals
06-30-2009, 02:05 PM
Funny, Not many of the cops I know are for gun control.

http://www.leaa.org/Cops%20Versus%20Gun%20Control/copsversusguncon.html


"Cops and Gun Control: The REAL Story
One of the driving forces behind LEAA’s founding was to dispel the false impression that America’s police favor more gun control.
We know, and research backs us up, an overwhelming majority of America’s rank-and-file cops support private ownership of firearms.
That’s because they know, better than most, that disarming honest citizens does nothing to reduce crime, but will deprive citizens of the means of defending themselves from violent predators."

Tyler, yes and no. Yes they do support private ownership but they don't support private ownership of MAC 10's, AK 47's and Saturday night specials.

John Smith
06-30-2009, 02:06 PM
Fear of future predictions is an interesting, and dangerous game.

Likely, there are a few folks out there who will committ violent acts. Likely more of them because their fear is stirred by predictions of Obama taking over completely.

A simple question here to ponder. A lot of white folks throughout history have hated black folks simply for being black. A lot of black folks hated white folks for hating them for being black.

Which hate was the more logical?

johnw
06-30-2009, 02:38 PM
Tyler, yes and no. Yes they do support private ownership but they don't support private ownership of MAC 10's, AK 47's and Saturday night specials.

Nor do they like 'cop killer' bullets, designed to penetrate body armor. The NRA called banning civilian sale of that ammo 'gun control.' So yeah, by NRA standards, most cops are pro-gun control. Remember, it's called 'gun control,' not 'banning all guns.'

Peter Malcolm Jardine
06-30-2009, 02:43 PM
Read Robert Heinlein's Time enough for love.

Always be prepared to defend yourself and even more importantly, your loved ones. If not you are not a man just a speaking chimp. :)


You and Tylertitty must have regular love ins.

johnw
06-30-2009, 03:07 PM
But there really is a danger of government intrusion into our lives. Just look at this:


Dem Congressional Candidate's Event Raided By San Diego Sheriffs

By Eric Kleefeld (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/kleefeld) - June 29, 2009, 3:07PM
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/sdsheriff-dc.jpgNow this is a truly bizarre story, about a Democratic Congressional candidate's fundraising event being raided by a whole squad from the San Diego Sheriff's Department -- including pepper-spray and a helicopter!
The San Diego Union-Tribune reports (http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/29/1m29busby215750-candidate-confront-deputies-over-r/?northcounty&zIndex=124089) that a fundraiser for Francine Busby, who previously ran for the deeply-Republican Fiftieth District and came close to winning in the 2006 special election and subsequent regular election, was raided by sheriffs after an unnamed neighbor made a noise complaint. Busby now calls it a "phony" noise complaint, and the article says that multiple neighbors said there was no great noise at all.
Here's the twist: The fundraiser was hosted by a lesbian couple, and shortly before the sheriffs came a particular neighbor had shouted anti-gay slurs at the assembled crowd. "It was a quiet home reception, disrupted by a vulgar person shouting obscenities from behind the bushes," Busby says.
As one neighbor told the paper: "We didn't hear anything until the sheriff came, with eight patrol cars and a helicopter."
The sheriff's department claims that somebody kicked an officer. By the time it was over, multiple people were pepper-sprayed, one of the hostesses was arrested, and the whole neighborhood got to see quite a scene.
One of the officers defended the department's conduct -- turning the blame on the candidate: "The place got out of hand. If Francine Busby was there, why not take a leadership role, step up, and nip this thing in the bud?"
Late Update: An earlier version of this post referred to "tear gas." It has been changed to "pepper spray" to be more clear and specific.

JimD
06-30-2009, 03:17 PM
A well armed citizen is a free citizen. BHO may hate freedom and do everything he can to take it away from you but that doesn't mean you have to take it laying down and good patriotic Amarikans know this.

Osborne Russell
06-30-2009, 03:50 PM
If the Chimp league goes out and buys guns, so what? They stick 'em under the bed and feel safe.

Captain Intrepid
06-30-2009, 04:04 PM
Heehee. You Americans get scared soooo easily. I actually think that's a major part of the national psyche. You gained your independence militarily through a major stroke of luck against a vastly superior adversary, and since then you've been paranoid and obsessed with the idea that you might have to do it again.

johnw
06-30-2009, 04:32 PM
Amarikans .

Why the German spelling?

And Captain, it seems to be only the right-wingers that are scared all the time. Liberals appear to be far less timid.

It's kind of amusing to see the macho conservatives quaking in their boots over imaginary threats. It would be a lot more amusing if some of the nuttier right-wing nuts didn't get so worked up they go out and shoot people.

PatCox
06-30-2009, 04:34 PM
Durden, you are insane, and you are dirtying up this bulletin board with utter crap worse than its ever been.

Here is the complete quote on this "civilian national security force" quote you so completely distort:

"Obama, July 2, Colorado Springs, CO: [As] president I will expand AmeriCorps to 250,000 slots [from 75,000] and make that increased service a vehicle to meet national goals, like providing health care and education, saving our planet and restoring our standing in the world, so that citizens see their effort connected to a common purpose.

People of all ages, stations and skills will be asked to serve. Because when it comes to the challenges we face, the American people are not the problem – they are the answer. So we are going to send more college graduates to teach and mentor our young people. We'll call on Americans to join an energy corps, to conduct renewable energy and environmental clean-up projects in their neighborhoods all across the country.

We will enlist our veterans to find jobs and support for other vets, and to be there for our military families. And we're going to grow our Foreign Service, open consulates that have been shuttered and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy. We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set.

We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded. We need to use technology to connect people to service. We'll expand USA Freedom Corps to create online networks where American can browse opportunities to volunteer. You'll be able to search by category, time commitment and skill sets. You'll be able to rate service opportunities, build service networks, and create your own service pages to track your hours and activities.

This will empower more Americans to craft their own service agenda and make their own change from the bottom up."

His point, you dunderhead, is that the military is not the only means to protect national security, that things like the State Department and diplomacy, and programs like the Peace Corp which foster a positive image for the US around the world, also protect our national security.

Lies, you are falling for so many lies.

bobbys
06-30-2009, 04:43 PM
Heehee. You Americans get scared soooo easily. I actually think that's a major part of the national psyche. You gained your independence militarily through a major stroke of luck against a vastly superior adversary, and since then you've been paranoid and obsessed with the idea that you might have to do it again..


This England never did, nor never shall,
Lie at the proud foot of a conqueror.William Shakespeare (http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/William_Shakespeare/), "King John", Act 5 scene 7
Greatest English dramatist & poet (1564 - 1616)

JimD
06-30-2009, 04:46 PM
Why the German spelling?
Just a lucky guess, John.

switters
06-30-2009, 04:55 PM
Durden, you are insane, and you are dirtying up this bulletin board with utter crap worse than its ever been.

Here is the complete quote on this "civilian national security force" quote you so completely distort:

"Obama, July 2, Colorado Springs, CO: [As] president I will expand AmeriCorps to 250,000 slots [from 75,000] and make that increased service a vehicle to meet national goals, like providing health care and education, saving our planet and restoring our standing in the world, so that citizens see their effort connected to a common purpose.

People of all ages, stations and skills will be asked to serve. Because when it comes to the challenges we face, the American people are not the problem – they are the answer. So we are going to send more college graduates to teach and mentor our young people. We'll call on Americans to join an energy corps, to conduct renewable energy and environmental clean-up projects in their neighborhoods all across the country.

We will enlist our veterans to find jobs and support for other vets, and to be there for our military families. And we're going to grow our Foreign Service, open consulates that have been shuttered and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy. We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set.

We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded. We need to use technology to connect people to service. We'll expand USA Freedom Corps to create online networks where American can browse opportunities to volunteer. You'll be able to search by category, time commitment and skill sets. You'll be able to rate service opportunities, build service networks, and create your own service pages to track your hours and activities.

This will empower more Americans to craft their own service agenda and make their own change from the bottom up."

His point, you dunderhead, is that the military is not the only means to protect national security, that things like the State Department and diplomacy, and programs like the Peace Corp which foster a positive image for the US around the world, also protect our national security.

Lies, you are falling for so many lies.

What is a civilian national security force and where is it provided for in the constitution of the United States?

Expand the Peace Corps, some people serve better without a camouflage uniform and more power to them. But a civilian national security force isn't going to do anything for foreign policy, unless maybe the president thinks some citizens are not his kind of citizens.

ishmael
06-30-2009, 04:59 PM
"Heehee. You Americans get scared soooo easily. I actually think that's a major part of the national psyche. You gained your independence militarily through a major stroke of luck against a vastly superior adversary, and since then you've been paranoid and obsessed with the idea that you might have to do it again."

I resent this. It displays terrible ignorance of history, and is insulting.

I'll bet the Australians didn't feel this way when we stopped the Japanese on their seemingly inevitable march on Port Moresby and beyond.

You insult not just me, but the blood of all Americans who stepped into the breach with great sacrifice and bravery.

We weren't alone. Kudos to all who fought there.

PatCox
06-30-2009, 05:02 PM
Switters, he is saying that organizations like the Peace Corp ARE a civilian national security force, that they increase national security too. Its called a metaphor.

johnw
06-30-2009, 05:10 PM
Poor, timid Mark, afraid of everything.

Chris Coose
06-30-2009, 05:18 PM
"

Written By; Scott Wagner is a 29 year law enforcement veteran, and current Deputy Sheriff,


29 year veteran and he has made it to deputy.
Good one Mark!

Captain Intrepid
06-30-2009, 05:33 PM
"Heehee. You Americans get scared soooo easily. I actually think that's a major part of the national psyche. You gained your independence militarily through a major stroke of luck against a vastly superior adversary, and since then you've been paranoid and obsessed with the idea that you might have to do it again."

I resent this. It displays terrible ignorance of history, and is insulting.

I'll bet the Australians didn't feel this way when we stopped the Japanese on their seemingly inevitable march on Port Moresby and beyond.

You insult not just me, but the blood of all Americans who stepped into the breach with great sacrifice and bravery.

We weren't alone. Kudos to all who fought there.

Bullhocky. I'm not talking about your soldiers in wwii, they fought with bravery and you insult me by accusing me of not being damned thankful for their sacrifices, as well as the sacrifices by my own countrymen, and all the allies. Don't forget, Canadians were there fighting and dying for freedom years before the US was, mostly in the european theatre, but also in the pacific one.

That has nothing to do with the American national psyche and it's obsession with the idea that freedom has to be protected with lots and lots of guns scattered amongst every yahoo tom dick and harry, the kind of people who get scared spitless about their Hindu neighbour Rajid being a dirty terrorist who'd going to kill them as they sleep one night.

Sometimes freedom does need to be protected by force, but it should be a last resort, and by the military we've set up to so.

In the meantime, your mainland has never been invaded by a large scale force bent on conquest. I actually recall you guys did invade us once though, with some kind of strange idea that you'd be greeted as liberators... I guess some things never change.


Just some stupid Canadian Ish, Nevermind.

I guess if not living my life quaking in my boots at every meaningless threat and conspiracy theory counts as stupid, I'd rather be stupid. There's a difference between being idealistic, being realistic, and being... shall we say... excitable? One you ignore everything you don't like, the next you discount the stupid, the inevitable and face the issues that count and you can change like a man, and the last you run around in circles trying to get away from your tail.

switters
06-30-2009, 05:34 PM
Switters, he is saying that organizations like the Peace Corp ARE a civilian national security force, that they increase national security too. Its called a metaphor.

The peace corp is a national security force. That is is not a metaphor, it is double speak.

I have no idea what his intent was when he said National Security force in the speech, but if it was a metaphor it was an unfortunate choice of words from someone so well spoken.

JimD
06-30-2009, 05:42 PM
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c350/mudhutwarrior/imperialism.jpg

Of course imperialism has an inertia of its own despite who occupies the WhiteHouse. But I do not accept that the sitting president does not influence that inertia. I do not think there would have been an Iraq war had not Bush and Cheney controlled the Oval Office. I do not think there would have been a Contra revolutionary war in Nicaragua had Reagan not been personally obsessed with it, and so on. The president is by no means in full control but neither is he completely a powerless pawn or pure arch villain in some grand monolithic plan.

johnw
06-30-2009, 05:51 PM
Grasping at straws I guess, Fear, rank.... what next?

How bout that Glen Greenwald?

Greenwald is a liberal scold. What does that have to do with you being afraid of imaginary conspiracies?

This might help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOb4pju9jno

Peter Malcolm Jardine
06-30-2009, 06:18 PM
Just some stupid Canadian Ish, Nevermind.

Yep, start listening to Mark. He's lonely.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
06-30-2009, 06:21 PM
Grasping at straws I guess, Fear, rank.... what next?



Well, I suppose even youhave a job right? So... bizarro man gets a job too.. a sign of our liberal times:D

ishmael
06-30-2009, 07:25 PM
So Cap, if you didn't mean this, why say it?

"You Americans get scared soooo easily. I actually think that's a major part of the national psyche."

P.S. None of the gun owners I know are "scared." There's a love of the machine and when good its fineness. There's a love of honing a skill, whether in marksmanship or understanding reloading and ballistics. The use as home protection is down the list.

It's there. I'll tell ya, when a wacky guy waved a gun at a cop during a routine traffic stop last winter, just fifteen minutes from here. Ran off into the woods, was missing for a week, and finally reappeared only to take an elementary school hostage, I was happy to load up the shotgun. But most days I don't think on that aspect much.

LeeG
06-30-2009, 07:27 PM
"Heehee. You Americans get scared soooo easily. I actually think that's a major part of the national psyche. You gained your independence militarily through a major stroke of luck against a vastly superior adversary, and since then you've been paranoid and obsessed with the idea that you might have to do it again."

I resent this. It displays terrible ignorance of history, and is insulting.

.

Truth hurts, explain again how a significant majority of Americans thought Saddam/Iraq had a role in 9/11 when there was near unanimity amongst counterterrorims experts and academics there was no connection? What emotion completely clouded the part of the brain where rational thought occurs and turns decision making over to the more primitive centers?

The Bigfella
06-30-2009, 07:33 PM
"Heehee. You Americans get scared soooo easily. I actually think that's a major part of the national psyche. You gained your independence militarily through a major stroke of luck against a vastly superior adversary, and since then you've been paranoid and obsessed with the idea that you might have to do it again."

I resent this. It displays terrible ignorance of history, and is insulting.

I'll bet the Australians didn't feel this way when we stopped the Japanese on their seemingly inevitable march on Port Moresby and beyond.

You insult not just me, but the blood of all Americans who stepped into the breach with great sacrifice and bravery.

We weren't alone. Kudos to all who fought there.

Speaking of history.... I think you will find it was the chocolate soldiers (try google) who stopped the Japanese march on Port Moresby, and you may care to google up Milne Bay... ah hell, I'll save you the trouble...

http://www.defence.gov.au/ARMY/AHU/HISTORY/Battles/Milne_Bay.htm

btw... I agree with your final sentence, but that's about it. The Japanese were apparently never intending to invade Australia - they had their hands full in Japan, where the Chinese were sucking Japan dry of young men.

now, returning you to your regular programming and the insanity thread.....

ishmael
06-30-2009, 07:38 PM
Tell it to the US Marines at Guadalcanal.

Captain Intrepid
06-30-2009, 07:40 PM
So Cap, if you didn't mean this, why say it?

"You Americans get scared soooo easily. I actually think that's a major part of the national psyche."

I did mean to say that. Do you deny that Americans often blow threats hugely out of proportion? Look at the emphasis on being "strong on terrorism" when you're dozens of times more likely to be killed in a car accident. Look at all the security measures that have been put into place that are absolutely useless at actually making people safer. Terrorism ain't new in the world, some Americans have been financing it for years for example. But you get a bit of a taste of the receiving end and suddenly the sky is falling.

2MeterTroll
06-30-2009, 07:41 PM
cops buying guns gee...... who-da thunk it. cops scared for there lives........ again who-da thunk it. perhaps they have twigged to the fact they are pretty hated by a big chunk of the general public.

The Bigfella
06-30-2009, 08:08 PM
Tell it to the US Marines at Guadalcanal.

Jack, as I said earlier, I support your earlier comment about kudos to all who fought there, but get a grip on reality. The Japanese expansion had already been halted and Guadalcanal was just one fortieth of Japan's battle casualties during WW2 - yep 2.5%. I didn't say it wasn't easy, I didn't say it wasn't important..... but you made a ridiculous statement and I called you for it. Get over it.

ishmael
06-30-2009, 08:14 PM
It's you who make ridiculous statements.

"You Americans get scared soooo easily. I actually think that's a major part of the national psyche."

Retract it, and we'll talk.

It isn't often I get my back up, but Pop was in the South Pacific. A gentler man you couldn't hope to meet, but he went to war because the country called. If your comment isn't a denigration of the "national psyche" I don't know what is. I resent it.

I, Rowboat
06-30-2009, 08:18 PM
I love cheese!

Captain Intrepid
06-30-2009, 08:52 PM
It's you who make ridiculous statements.

"You Americans get scared soooo easily. I actually think that's a major part of the national psyche."

Retract it, and we'll talk.

It isn't often I get my back up, but Pop was in the South Pacific. A gentler man you couldn't hope to meet, but he went to war because the country called. If your comment isn't a denigration of the "national psyche" I don't know what is. I resent it.

The national psyche doesn't apply to specific people, but to people en masse. It's a generalization that has a lot of truth to it. Americans as a whole tend towards the conservative, reactionary side of things, that stems from your violent beginnings against a vastly superior force because of perceived slights. Canadians are tend towards the more conciliatory, which stems from our beginnings through a slower democratic and beaurocratic coming together out of convenience.

ishmael
06-30-2009, 09:00 PM
"The national psyche doesn't apply to specific people, but to people en masse. It's a generalization that has a lot of truth to it. Americans as a whole tend towards the conservative, reactionary side of things, that stems from your violent beginnings against a vastly superior force because of perceived slights. Canadians are tend towards the more conciliatory, which stems from our beginnings through a slower democratic and beaurocratic coming together out of convenience."

That may be your image, but it's bull. You took your land from the natives, just like we did, and just as brutally.

Essentially, you accused Americans of being craven and cowardly. I've yet to hear an honest apology.

oznabrag
06-30-2009, 10:09 PM
What're you so afraid of Ish?

bobbys
06-30-2009, 10:44 PM
"The national psyche doesn't apply to specific people, but to people en masse. It's a generalization that has a lot of truth to it. Americans as a whole tend towards the conservative, reactionary side of things, that stems from your violent beginnings against a vastly superior force because of perceived slights. Canadians are tend towards the more conciliatory, which stems from our beginnings through a slower democratic and beaurocratic coming together out of convenience."

That may be your image, but it's bull. You took your land from the natives, just like we did, and just as brutally.

Essentially, you accused Americans of being craven and cowardly. I've yet to hear an honest apology..

I dont think you get it,You are supposed to say we suck , Then they say we suck, then you agree with them hoping they will like us but they really still think we suck witch makes them feel better and smarter when in reality there the ones that suck for saying something boorish like you suck..

This is Obamas plan, Cant you get it???:eek:

The Bigfella
07-01-2009, 12:07 AM
It's you who make ridiculous statements.

"You Americans get scared soooo easily. I actually think that's a major part of the national psyche."

Retract it, and we'll talk.

It isn't often I get my back up, but Pop was in the South Pacific. A gentler man you couldn't hope to meet, but he went to war because the country called. If your comment isn't a denigration of the "national psyche" I don't know what is. I resent it.

You talking to me or someone else? They weren't my words btw... but your post followed mine.. So...?

PatCox
07-01-2009, 12:10 AM
There is no question about it, Amurrica is like the elephant afraid of the mouse. Our politicians on both side have discovered that fear-mongering pays off, and they all play it to the hilt, and have turned this country into a society of scared ****less pantywaists, on both sides of the aisle. The conservatives and gun nuts think that the immigrants and out of control blacks are gonna murder them in their beds if they are not armed to the hilt, and they think every sabre-rattling tinpot dictator in any backward nothing of a country is the next Hitler.

Meanwhile, the nanny-state liberals have people afraid of whats in the water, lead, vaccines, of anyone anywhere taking any kind of chance that might result in harm, thats fear too.

But no question, this country is fearful. Maybe a leftover from the cold war, when there was legitimate existential fear of global nuclear annihilation, we got in the habit of constant fear.

There have been constant waves of hysteria in the US, stupid, ridiculous things, ritual child abuse, undercooked hamburgers, lawn darts, sleeper cells, crack, wilding, the war on drugs itself, socialized medicine, our society and public discourse is beset with bugaboos, boogeymen, monsters and threats manufactured out of whole cloth by politicians and activists, "won't someone think of the children," all of our local schools pulled up their astroturf fields 2 years ago because there are miniscule amounts of lead in astrotruf, and if we were to let our kids graze on it, they would develop lead poisoning.

And the biggest hysteria of all was that a fluke success by a few crazies on 9-11 constitutes an existential threat to our country that justified all kinds of craziness.

PatCox
07-01-2009, 12:16 AM
captain intrepid, our fearful national psyche has nothing to do with our origins, the struggle against a superior force, people in the US by and large have no awareness of that fight, except of the myths. Hell, we most of us think we did it alone.

Our fearfulness, I think, is the reverse of our insane overconfidence. We have been the biggest and the most powerful and the richest for so long, we have this belief, nothing bad can ever happen to us. So when something bad does happen, we are so rattled, because our national myth is of supreme complete power and force and impregnable, overwhelming superiority. The idea that there is nothing to freak out about just because a weaker enemy might sting us, is not in us, we are supposed to be completely invincible in every way, and anything that threatens that myth is taken as a completely unacceptable thing and justifies insane overreaction.

LeeG
07-01-2009, 12:17 AM
And the biggest hysteria of all was that a fluke success by a few crazies on 9-11 constitutes an existential threat to our country that justified all kinds of craziness.


and convinced a nation that attacking Iraq will prevent Saddam from giving wmd to Al Qaeda. Absolute , total bs that worked because we were afraid.

PatCox
07-01-2009, 12:36 AM
Right now, I suspect that Obama has been worked over by the generals and spooks, into believing that investigating and unmasking the Bush admin's war crimes would inflame the muslim world and make the US less secure, and he's buying it, and trying to keep the secrets of what happened, while trying to stay true to his conviction we cannot keep doing it. And I don't think it makes him the equivalent of Bush, just because he may pragmatically understand that if, for example, he releases the abu graib photos, and then some embassy is bombed somewhere, Darth Cheney will arise from his crypt and scream "Obama has blood on his hands."

He inherited a mess, a president before him, who condoned, ordered, war crimes to be committed. But, what to do, revealing all, would the damage outweigh the benefit? Its not a black or white question. Those who don't have to make the decisions which will affect so many lives have the luxury of taking black and white positions.

oznabrag
07-01-2009, 12:39 AM
Roll, Pat! Surf it!

LeeG
07-01-2009, 12:45 AM
seems to me the "muslim world" can't be that inflamed by crimes that are less heinous that those committed by some of their own gov'ts. We just don't want to lose face and the president doesn't want to trash the previous office holder.

ripley699
07-01-2009, 12:51 AM
""Canadians are tend towards the more conciliatory, which stems from our beginnings through a slower democratic and beaurocratic coming together out of convenience ""


A few weeks ago ,when Obama was in Germany giving a speech, approx. 200,000 germans were shouting and yelling in approval. The French heard the noise and surrendered ,just in case !

Captain Intrepid
07-01-2009, 10:24 AM
"The national psyche doesn't apply to specific people, but to people en masse. It's a generalization that has a lot of truth to it. Americans as a whole tend towards the conservative, reactionary side of things, that stems from your violent beginnings against a vastly superior force because of perceived slights. Canadians are tend towards the more conciliatory, which stems from our beginnings through a slower democratic and beaurocratic coming together out of convenience."

That may be your image, but it's bull. You took your land from the natives, just like we did, and just as brutally.

Essentially, you accused Americans of being craven and cowardly. I've yet to hear an honest apology.

Well, if nothing else, I'm sorry you don't understand what I'm saying, and that it's not intended to be insulting. Since you can't seem to separate a cultural trend from individual action, I fear there's no point continuing to try and explain it to you.


captain intrepid, our fearful national psyche has nothing to do with our origins, the struggle against a superior force, people in the US by and large have no awareness of that fight, except of the myths. Hell, we most of us think we did it alone.

Our fearfulness, I think, is the reverse of our insane overconfidence. We have been the biggest and the most powerful and the richest for so long, we have this belief, nothing bad can ever happen to us. So when something bad does happen, we are so rattled, because our national myth is of supreme complete power and force and impregnable, overwhelming superiority. The idea that there is nothing to freak out about just because a weaker enemy might sting us, is not in us, we are supposed to be completely invincible in every way, and anything that threatens that myth is taken as a completely unacceptable thing and justifies insane overreaction.

I think that's another part of it yes. A third contributing factor is that in the colonization of the US, settlers moved west faster than the government and the rule of law did. Again it contrasts to Canada, where government existed out west before it was really settled.

SamSam
07-01-2009, 11:51 AM
.

I dont think you get it,You are supposed to say we suck , Then they say we suck, then you agree with them hoping they will like us but they really still think we suck witch makes them feel better and smarter when in reality there the ones that suck for saying something boorish like you suck..

This is Obamas plan, Cant you get it???:eek:You suck.

Bob (oh, THAT Bob)
07-16-2009, 11:13 PM
"Heehee. You Americans get scared soooo easily. I actually think that's a major part of the national psyche. You gained your independence militarily through a major stroke of luck against a vastly superior adversary, and since then you've been paranoid and obsessed with the idea that you might have to do it again."

I resent this. It displays terrible ignorance of history, and is insulting.

I'll bet the Australians didn't feel this way when we stopped the Japanese on their seemingly inevitable march on Port Moresby and beyond.

You insult not just me, but the blood of all Americans who stepped into the breach with great sacrifice and bravery.

We weren't alone. Kudos to all who fought there.

He has a point. When Britain was in danger of invasion, thousands of Americans donated private weapons for their aid (before the United States entered the war), because they had so disarmed themselves after the Great War. After WWII was over, did they thankfully return those weapons? No, the British government cut them up ("demilled") and scrapped them.

But getting to the root post of this thread, most of the fear in the population is in reaction to conditions that are the result of policies by George W. Bush and his allies, not the current administration. If Obama, et al, don't try to take my guns, I'll be fine with his trying to work us all out of this mess.