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Robbie 2
06-25-2009, 05:51 PM
Just heard on the radio that Michael Jackson has died aged 50 of a heart attack:eek:.........can anyone confirm this?

ccmanuals
06-25-2009, 05:54 PM
Everything I'm seeing he was rushed to the hospital, cardiac arrest.

mmd
06-25-2009, 05:56 PM
Uh, folks, I'm not much of a fan of The Gloved One, but the name is spelled, "Michael"...

goodbasil
06-25-2009, 05:59 PM
My radio only said that he'd had a heart attack. However, your radio may be ahead of its time.

SMARTINSEN
06-25-2009, 06:05 PM
Yes, according to TMZ via Drudge.

Bob Cleek
06-25-2009, 06:19 PM
Everybody is quoting TMZ, so if they are premature, it's going to be egg on their face... or whatever. You never know with Jacko!

I guess it's the Jackson Four from now own, but, hey, "One Bad Apple Don't Spoil the Whole Bunch."

ccmanuals
06-25-2009, 06:23 PM
just heard he died.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
06-25-2009, 06:28 PM
LA times says he has died, so has CBS.

Bob Adams
06-25-2009, 06:45 PM
ABC too. I guess it's official.

Big Woody
06-25-2009, 06:48 PM
http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu110/xhanzx2/michael_jackson_-_home_alone.jpg

You can let your kids go outdoors again now. :D

Memphis Mike
06-25-2009, 06:59 PM
Let him get cold before the insults. We even afforded Ronald Reagan that luxury.

SaltyD from BC
06-25-2009, 07:09 PM
Just heard this on the news as well. Say what you will about him he was one extremely talented human being to be sure. And a very tortured soul it seems to me.

BrianW
06-25-2009, 07:11 PM
Cold yet?

SaltyD from BC
06-25-2009, 07:16 PM
Cold yet?

I'm thinking so. Let'r rip. ..

Tom Montgomery
06-25-2009, 07:19 PM
His death is simultaneously shocking and not unexpected. His life over the last 15 years has resembled a train wreck. RIP.

Big Woody
06-25-2009, 07:19 PM
Cold yet?

Yes, plastic cools down quickly. :D

Most likely his body is approaching room temperature.

JimD
06-25-2009, 07:35 PM
Another clock runs out

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2412/2208182807_145268bd89.jpg?v=0

Big Woody
06-25-2009, 07:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhIE_8ZOp0c

davidagage
06-25-2009, 08:47 PM
Just heard this on the news as well. Say what you will about him he was one extremely talented human being to be sure. And a very tortured soul it seems to me.

Here here. The man, albiet controversial in recent times, was a great talent and a big contributor the the music industry. After all, we all danced to it in the 80's:D.

ron ll
06-25-2009, 08:47 PM
The biggest shock to me was that he was 50. Makes me feel kind of ancient.

beaky
06-25-2009, 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by SaltyD from BC http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2239635#post2239635)
Just heard this on the news as well. Say what you will about him he was one extremely talented human being to be sure. And a very tortured soul it seems to me.
davidagage
Here here. The man, albiet controversial in recent times, was a great talent and a big contributor the the music industry. After all, we all danced to it in the 80's:D.

here here

jill

huisjen
06-25-2009, 09:11 PM
My guess is that he's probably arranged to have his head flash frozen so that he can be cloned later and his brain installed in the new body. So he's gotta be cold by now.

I gave his music my best Spock-raised-eyebrow. I did not dance to it.

Dan

Pernicious Atavist
06-25-2009, 09:18 PM
So, do we forget he was a child molester, or is it too soon yet to call a....let me rephrase that...or is it too soon yet to be reminded that he was, although a talented individual, a rapist.

Tylerdurden
06-25-2009, 09:22 PM
Lets be fair, A lot of kids were touched by his talents.

L.W. Baxter
06-25-2009, 09:26 PM
He pled not guilty and was acquitted of child molestation.

I find it easy to believe that he was falsely accused. Wayyyy easy to believe.

Tylerdurden
06-25-2009, 09:28 PM
He pled not guilty and was acquitted of child molestation.

I find it easy to believe that he was falsely accused. Wayyyy easy to believe.

And if he didn't have big bucks he would be on the registry right now.

I hear most rich people are falsely accused but the poor are almost to a man guilty. Why is that?

Lew Barrett
06-25-2009, 09:30 PM
Lets be fair, A lot of kids were touched by his talents.

Lol!



He pled not guilty and was acquitted of child molestation.

I find it easy to believe that he was falsely accused. Wayyyy easy to believe.


But he also settled in his first case for $20M. That's a lot of money for an innocent man to pay in a molestation case.

I'll miss Farrah Fawcet more, or at least my image of her.

Memphis Mike
06-25-2009, 09:52 PM
So, do we forget he was a child molester, or is it too soon yet to call a....let me rephrase that...or is it too soon yet to be reminded that he was, although a talented individual, a rapist.

Hell, have we forgotten about the Catholic priests that are child molesters and rapists with the blessings of the church? Nothing has changed there.

I don't recall Jackson being found guilty.

brad9798
06-25-2009, 09:58 PM
So, do we forget he was a child molester, or is it too soon yet to call a....let me rephrase that...or is it too soon yet to be reminded that he was, although a talented individual, a rapist.

Gosh ... you must have some "inside" information ... :rolleyes:
__________________________

A brilliantly talented, yet utterly sad, individual ... :(

L.W. Baxter
06-25-2009, 10:04 PM
I know the story around the allegations, and that he paid. Michael was easy to make out as a wierdo because he was, in fact, a wierdo. But not necessarily a child molester. That he paid a fraction of his net worth to try to stop the story is evidence of nothing, in my opinion.

As far as I know, there have been no other allegations against him, and no other settlements. How many pedophiles make it to 50 without leaving a trail of victims? He didn't pull a Gary Glitter, and he didn't die in a closet in Bangkok. It makes me wonder if maybe he wasn't just a sad, lonely, mixed up man-child who was used by someone he thought was a friend.

One way or the other, I think his life was a tragedy.

Bob Cleek
06-25-2009, 10:16 PM
Another clock runs out

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2412/2208182807_145268bd89.jpg?v=0

Neverland... where the big hand is always on the little hand?

(Yea, I know, he's dead and unconvicted, but I couldn't resist.)

bobbys
06-25-2009, 10:37 PM
My guess is that he's probably arranged to have his head flash frozen so that he can be cloned later and his brain installed in the new body. So he's gotta be cold by now.

I gave his music my best Spock-raised-eyebrow. I did not dance to it.

Dan.

You liar i bet you"MOONWALK" to impress the goils!!!!:D

Phil Heffernan
06-25-2009, 11:28 PM
Let him get cold before the insults. We even afforded Ronald Reagan that luxury.

Thanks MMike...M. Jackson was an amazing human, who entertained 3 generations...His foibles as a human being reflect our own...I'll miss the guy's intense sense of self...

PH

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
06-26-2009, 12:39 AM
I'll bet he didn't die sittin on the crapper like Elvis did.
I suspect drugs will have played a part in his death.
I think very few people knew the real Michael Jackson.
May he rest in peace.

hansp77
06-26-2009, 01:08 AM
I agree with L.W. Baxter, MMike, Phil H., and DMKIA, and any others I might have missed.
Such a sad life, that brought joy to so many.
It is an awful situation where being found innocent in court is still being found guilty in society. If any of us had his money at the time, and WAS innocent of the criminal charges leveled at him, would we hesitate to spend a paltry 20M to silence the echoes (after being found innocent)? It is hard to imagine facing that reality, but I doubt I would hesitate to pay the money.
He was a weird and damaged man. And in many ways an easy target because of such. I don't know what he did or didn't do, none of us do, but for sake of us all (lest anyone here every get accused of something as heinous in acts, and potentially life ending in consequences this), I am happy to grant him the assumption of innocence against those charges that he achieved in court.

RIP Michael.

Nanoose
06-26-2009, 02:48 AM
I couldn't believe it when I heard this. Just so out of the blue....
A talented, talented man.
RIP

LeeG
06-26-2009, 03:05 AM
Andrew Sullivan wrote a good piece about him.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/
There are two things to say about him. He was a musical genius; and he was an abused child. By abuse, I do not mean sexual abuse; I mean he was used brutally and callously for money, and clearly imprisoned by a tyrannical father. He had no real childhood and spent much of his later life struggling to get one. He was spiritually and psychologically raped at a very early age - and never recovered. Watching him change his race, his age, and almost his gender, you saw a tortured soul seeking what the rest of us take for granted: a normal life.

But he had no compass to find one; no real friends to support and advise him; and money and fame imprisoned him in the delusions of narcissism and self-indulgence. Of course, he bears responsibility for his bizarre life. But the damage done to him by his own family and then by all those motivated more by money and power than by faith and love was irreparable in the end. He died a while ago. He remained for so long a walking human shell.

I loved his music. His young voice was almost a miracle, his poise in retrospect eery, his joy, tempered by pain, often unbearably uplifting. He made the greatest music video of all time; and he made some of the greatest records of all time. He was everything our culture worships; and yet he was obviously desperately unhappy, tortured, afraid and alone.

I grieve for him; but I also grieve for the culture that created and destroyed him. That culture is ours' and it is a lethal and brutal one: with fame and celebrity as its core values, with money as its sole motive, it chewed this child up and spat him out.

I hope he has the peace now he never had in his life. And I pray that such genius will not be so abused again.

Nanoose
06-26-2009, 03:23 AM
Thanks, Lee.
This one just doesn't seem real....dunno why....it'll sink in eventually, I guess...

martin schulz
06-26-2009, 03:27 AM
Would you mind changing the thread title to the correct Michael Jackson, please!


I think is a bit inappropriate, although I am/was never a big Michael Jackson fan.

BarnacleGrim
06-26-2009, 03:32 AM
He's edited it once, and it still has the wrong title :confused:

ChaseKenyon
06-26-2009, 03:42 AM
There are two things to say about him. He was a musical genius; and he was an abused child. By abuse, I do not mean sexual abuse; I mean he was used brutally and callously for money, and clearly imprisoned by a tyrannical father. He had no real childhood and spent much of his later life struggling to get one. He was spiritually and psychologically raped at a very early age - and never recovered. Watching him change his race, his age, and almost his gender, you saw a tortured soul seeking what the rest of us take for granted: a normal life.


agreed,

even if his music was not my style,

it was for the most part brilliant.

He was a consummate performer.

Do any of you remember how many years he took home the trophies for best performance and best album and best music video.


He was great, his track record makes Elvis look like a one record wannabe.

That is the truth. Like it or not. I just accept it. Elvis was a tortured soul , so was michael. but we had the luxury of knowing them as consummate performers during our lifetimes.

We should consider ourselves lucky.


:cool::cool::cool::cool:

Paul Fitzgerald
06-26-2009, 03:54 AM
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=92216

Big Woody
06-26-2009, 04:38 AM
I hope he has the peace now he never had in his life. And I pray that such genius will not be so abused again.

Society expresses its sympathy for the geniuses of the past to distract attention from the fact that it has no intention of being sympathetic to the geniuses of the present. -

Celia Green


I think it is a rare genius who is not scorned all his life. It is easy to hate those who seem ignorant, and even easier to hate those who make you seem ignorant.

jonboy
06-26-2009, 05:35 AM
Here here. The man, albiet controversial in recent times, was a great talent and a big contributor the the music industry. After all, we all danced to it in the 80's:D.


And others... that should be 'hear hear'... from the cry 'hear him hear him' when a speaker was being drowned out by other debaters

RIP all the same

Rational Root
06-26-2009, 05:50 AM
He died a long time ago, it just took him a while to realise it.

D

Robbie 2
06-26-2009, 06:15 AM
Would you mind changing the thread title to the correct Michael Jackson, please!


I think is a bit inappropriate, although I am/was never a big Michael Jackson fan.


Sorry....I didn't know how to do that and it took me a while to figure out. I too wasn't a big fan of the man but did enjoy his music.

Robbie 2
06-26-2009, 06:19 AM
He's edited it once, and it still has the wrong title :confused:

I tried to change it but it hasn't happened....if you can tell me how to do this I will.:confused:

Chris Coose
06-26-2009, 06:20 AM
Watching a person live in the ultra extreme in the ultra extreme of the American pop industry, I'm really surprised he lasted as long as he did.
I didn't hook up to much of his stuff but I can see why lots of people did.

Poor bastard was a wreck from the get go. I'll bet there were days he was happy but it came at a very high cost.
It is some of the worst that America has to offer.

elf
06-26-2009, 07:26 AM
I tried to change it but it hasn't happened....if you can tell me how to do this I will.:confused:

Thread titles aren't editable. Once the typo gets in there it's there for good.

If you think spelling Michael is bad, try Where's Spinner and Cass, and Where's Jamie and Airlie. It's as though most of us have no understanding of singular vs. plural.

Rational Root
06-26-2009, 07:27 AM
Apparently Dupont are being called in for the post mortem.

elf
06-26-2009, 07:50 AM
Michael Jackson was an American embarassment. While it's always a shame for a life to end in the middle, I can easily imagine that his demise is a source of great relief to the many whose lives and childrens' lives were distorted and mauled by his infantile behavior. The model he set for self destruction, physically and emotionally, is appalling, and the number of people who fell for it is emblematic of the sickness that American society has suffered from for the last 25 years.

I am astounded that so many people actually paid more than a passing glance of attention to the poor guy.

BarnacleGrim
06-26-2009, 08:27 AM
Thread titles aren't editable. Once the typo gets in there it's there for good.
I see now. It's only the post title that gets changed, not the whole thread title.

As for the topic of the thread, I didn't really care for either the person or the music. Way too shrill, I'm more of a Tom Waits guy.

Osborne Russell
06-26-2009, 08:33 AM
Michael Jackson was an American embarassment. While it's always a shame for a life to end in the middle, I can easily imagine that his demise is a source of great relief to the many whose lives and childrens' lives were distorted and mauled by his infantile behavior. The model he set for self destruction, physically and emotionally, is appalling, and the number of people who fell for it is emblematic of the sickness that American society has suffered from for the last 25 years.

I am astounded that so many people actually paid more than a passing glance of attention to the poor guy.

Well said. Further, his "music" was a puddle of watery poodle barf.

martin schulz
06-26-2009, 08:40 AM
... I'm really surprised he lasted as long as he did.

I always thought he will "live" very long sustained by oxygen-showers, beauty surgeries and other kinds of expensive life prolonging stuff. A kind of zombie-life, but nontheless a long life.

Tylerdurden
06-26-2009, 08:46 AM
Lets not crucify him completely. We need to understand what he was raised into. I don't think many would come out of a childhood filled with corporate machine lust with any sense of normalcy.

If anything its an indictment of us and our society.

Osborne Russell
06-26-2009, 08:50 AM
If anything its an indictment of us and our society.

An indictment made flesh . . . of a sort.

Flying Orca
06-26-2009, 08:51 AM
It's easy enough to see some people liked his stuff, but I'm not one of them. Dance music for me was either punk/"New Wave" or stuff like Yazoo. Looking at Thriller, it looks like he only wrote four songs; seems to me that Quincy Jones was more responsible for the music. What are you left with? A whiny voice that never appealed to me, insipid lyrics, and - credit where it is due - one hell of a dancer from all I've heard (I've never seen the video).

Just another pop star. Bye.

Tom Montgomery
06-26-2009, 08:53 AM
There is no question but that the man had talent.

There is also no question that his behavior was freakish and borderline, if not outright, illegal.

We will learn a lot about the real Michael Jackson in the next few months.

John Smith
06-26-2009, 08:54 AM
So, do we forget he was a child molester, or is it too soon yet to call a....let me rephrase that...or is it too soon yet to be reminded that he was, although a talented individual, a rapist.
Probably.

I was never a fan of his music, but know many who are. They'll enjoy his music for many years.

I've often thought he was a victim of too much fame, too early in life.

Hard to be "normal" when your life is anything but from the age of 5.

My personal memories are both my kids absoluting having to have the Thriller album, then neither ever played it.

TomF
06-26-2009, 08:57 AM
I disagree, Osborne, at least about the calibre of Jackson's music. Pop music is froth, by definition.

Whether we're talking about his hits with the Jackson 5 as a kid, or his hits as an adult solo act, I don't think we're ever going to confuse his work with high art. Whether the kid singing "Ben" or "Alfie," or the adult singing "Billie Jean" or "Thriller," Jackson somehow distilled the particular kind of froth that rose to the top in the particular era. They're not great songs; they're commercial songs. We should understand Jackson as a commercial artist, not a fine artist. And he was a really good commercial artist - one who (like Andy Warhol or Martha Stewart) understood that he was the brand; at some point, he and his music switched places in terms of priority.

From that perspective, I think Elf's right that he was an embarassment - but a Western Society embarassment, not one particular to the US. After all, commercial products succeed because they capture the market. We wanted the peculiarly plastic. manufactured product he both was and sold. His music is like a perfectly assembled Holiday Inn room, or an exquisitely prepared McDonalds meal. Of its type, it was the best - and hugely appealing to an enormously varied audience.

I think the embarassment is really more ours than his, that we would rather consume fast-food music ... however stunningly prepared ... to more strenuous and satisfying stuff.

Osborne Russell
06-26-2009, 09:58 AM
I disagree, Osborne, at least about the calibre of Jackson's music. Pop music is froth, by definition.



Or so they would have you believe. First they lower your expectations, then they make sure you can only buy what they are selling. Ketchup is a vegetable and chewing gum is food. Industry is more efficient than craftsmanship. So we must maintain that aesthetics contain no morals. Aesthetics is consumption preference and consumption is economics and economics has no morals so why should it have aesthetics?

I got your pop music right here:


I'm the best you can get. Have you guessed me, yet? I'm the slime oozin' out from your TV set. You will obey me while I lead you and eat the garbage that I feed you, until the day that we don't need you. Don't go for help, no one will heed you.

-- Frank Zappa, "I Am The Slime"

Pop music is what the audience and the performers make it. Duke Ellington, Fats Domino, Louis Armstrong, Hank Williams. Michael Jackson wasn't fit to carry their jockstrap. They were producers; he was a product.

mmd
06-26-2009, 09:59 AM
This reminds me of a bad joke I heard a few years ago:

The bartender goes over to a customer who is sullenly drinking heavily and crying in his beer. "Why are you so upset, buddy?", he asks.

"My life is in the toilet bowl. Nobody appreciates me and my great accomplishments!"

"What do you mean?" asks the barkeep.

"Look out the window - do you see that beautiful building that is the city opera house? I built that. But does anybody look at me as I pass by and say, 'There goes Eduardo, the great architect!'? No!"

The bartender shakes his head in sympathy.

"Look over into the ship harbour. Do you see that lovely passenger liner tied up at the marine terminal? I built that. But does anybody look at me as I pass by and say, 'There goes Eduardo, the great ship builder!'? No!"

The barkeep clucks his tongue in disgust at the public treatment of this poor soul.

"I see by the books you have under the bar that you are a reader of good literature. I wrote several books that won prizes and were best sellers. But does anybody look at me as I pass by and say, 'There goes Eduardo, the great novelist!'? No!"

The bartender pours him a drink on the house.

"But let Eduardo get caught having sex with one little boy, and what do they all call me?..."


The point I am trying to make is that we shouldnít dismiss a personís positive accomplishments because of features of their personal lives. As a somewhat comparative example, Richard Wagner is mostly remembered as a musical genius who transformed classical and operatic music and whose scores are still played regularly around the world, despite the fact that he was, by most accounts, a vehement racist and anti-Semitic. Michael Jackson may have been a pedophile, or not. But that controversy should not diminish the fact that he was the most successful pop artist of the twentieth century by many measures, and has had a phenomenal influence on our current musical culture. His contribution to the musical landscape of the western world will outlive any of the tawdry commentary about his personal life, and I think that to try to diminish his reputation by lurid allegation at the time of his death merely casts a small and sickly light on the persons attempting to do so.

Iíve never been a great fan of his style of music, but I recognize and applaud the influence he has had on the culture that I live in.

High C
06-26-2009, 09:59 AM
....We wanted the peculiarly plastic. manufactured product he both was and sold....

I disagree. Jackson's success declined in direct relationship to the evolution of his freakish persona. The Michael Jackson who recorded Off the Wall, Thriller, and Bad, selling record numbers of albums, was not the same guy who later in life became a freak show who couldn't pay his bills.

bobbys
06-26-2009, 11:03 AM
I shall refrain from any personal criticisms until the body at least chills a bit remembering he was a Son , Brother, Father to others.

I will consider this , Compared to the new RAP music he was a Ludwig Van Beethoven ..

The Bible says Man must die once Then the Judgement.

I ask myself if i should pass away am i ready to present an account of my life or will i be ashamed of deeds done or not done.

{bobby laying down sum spiritual stuff!!!}

Lew Barrett
06-26-2009, 11:07 AM
I'm more of a Tom Waits guy.

That's a fair set of extremes!

Lew Barrett
06-26-2009, 11:09 AM
So the next question is: Who inherits? He had vast holdings, you know. So who gets it? Germaine? Titio? Janet?



Bankruptcy Court will dole it out. He's said to have been over $400M in debt.

Did anybody hear Bruce Swedien (MJ's recording engineer) on PBS yesterday? Interesting perspective. Odd, but interesting. Time for the media to move along to the next new "news." The coming funeral and eulogies should be quite a continuing circus. Get him in the ground, already!

TomF
06-26-2009, 11:19 AM
I disagree. Jackson's success declined in direct relationship to the evolution of his freakish persona. The Michael Jackson who recorded Off the Wall, Thriller, and Bad, selling record numbers of albums, was not the same guy who later in life became a freak show who couldn't pay his bills.Sure, his decline into personal freakishness killed his mega-success.

But my point is that the music he made at the peak of his career - Thriller, Bad, and Off the Wall - were themselves plastic, artificial products. Their astonishing sales success didn't happen because they were great fine art - but because they were great commercial art. Wonderfully produced, beautifully performed ... but does "Billie Jean" really have a melody? Is the melody richer than, say, "My Funny Valentine," or "Yesterday?" Is the lyric more profound, provocative or witty than something penned by Ira Gershwin or Cole Porter? Or Neil Young or Leonard Cohen?

No. Jackson's appeal at the height of his powers was to superbly produced, performed and packaged inoffensive froth. We'll regard his music the way we regard Andy Warhol's pictures of Campbell Soup tins ... but not the way we regard a Bach toccata and fugue, or a generations-old Irish traditional dance tune, or even Bonnie Raitt playing blues/pop on slide guitar.

B_B
06-26-2009, 11:28 AM
http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94377&highlight=change+%2B+thread+%2B+title

slight correction ELF - thread tittles are editable until someone else posts, responds to the thread. Once you have a response (possibly even once someone reads the thread, but of this I am unsure) then the title is no longer editable.

elf
06-26-2009, 11:29 AM
Oh dear. Fat chance you can beat the speeddemons of the Bilge!

Lew Barrett
06-26-2009, 11:32 AM
In my view, MJ didn't represent the worst of pop music by any means and he was a talent, no doubt, but he may have represented what is most vapid in our culture to the extreme extent possible. Having sold 750,000,000 albums, he dies bankrupt. Surrounded by sycophants and adoring fans, he was lonely to an extreme. All the tea in China couldn't buy him happiness; a man who outwardly denied his heritage but played on it to make a fortune and then to lose it. He was a visibly impotent weakling who constantly played a tough guy, which is a very recurring theme in our cultural world. Ultimately he was a very unhappy and lonely person who also showed us a disturbing trend in ourselves: our willingness to take joy in tearing down our own icons. Essentially, another form of Brittany Spears.

We pay too much attention to Michael Jacksons and not enough to Jonas Salks.

LeeG
06-26-2009, 12:32 PM
but Brittany is doing better. I remember when I was 13 and heard Michael Jackson sing "I'll be there" it creeped me out. It seemed like the kind of music older ladies would like, it just made no sense for a pre-pubescent kid to sing a love ballad,,even if his voice and delivery was way beyond his years.

Yeadon
06-26-2009, 01:48 PM
Supposedly, the guy was a menace to children for a long, long time. I'm having a hard time mourning him. You have to recognize his talent, though, and in that regard he was huge. But that part seemed to flicker out years ago.

Lew Barrett
06-26-2009, 04:00 PM
Supposedly, the guy was a menace to children for a long, long time. I'm having a hard time mourning him. You have to recognize his talent, though, and in that regard he was huge. But that part seemed to flicker out years ago.

I left that part out of my litany regarding MJ. Needless to say, it's the most disturbing of his behaviors, and I don't think, given the record of his civil settlement, we can say or need to assume that he was innocent.

John of Phoenix
06-26-2009, 04:56 PM
It's starting to get wierd... err, wierder.



Police interviewed a doctor who had been at Jackson's posh rented Holmby Hills home when the singer went into cardiac arrest and towed the man's car. "His car was impounded because it may contain medications or other evidence that may assist the coroner in determining the cause of death," police spokeswoman Karen Rayner said. Detectives interviewed the physician briefly and were seeking to question him again, but police did not identify him.

A Los Angeles Fire Department source told the Los Angeles Times that Jackson was in full cardiac arrest Thursday when rescue units arrived on the scene. The unidentified doctor was in the house performing CPR on him, said the Times' source, who asked not to be named because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

In the meantime, lawyer Brian Oxman, who has worked with the Jackson family, told CBS's "The Early Show" that he had been concerned about the prescription drugs that Jackson took due to injuries suffered while performing. "I do not want to point fingers at anyone because I want to hear what the toxicology report says and the coroner says but the plain fact of the matter is that Michael Jackson had prescription drugs at his disposal at all times," Oxman said.

High C
06-26-2009, 05:28 PM
Sure, his decline into personal freakishness killed his mega-success.

But my point is that the music he made at the peak of his career - Thriller, Bad, and Off the Wall - were themselves plastic, artificial products. Their astonishing sales success didn't happen because they were great fine art - but because they were great commercial art. Wonderfully produced, beautifully performed ... but does "Billie Jean" really have a melody? Is the melody richer than, say, "My Funny Valentine," or "Yesterday?" Is the lyric more profound, provocative or witty than something penned by Ira Gershwin or Cole Porter? Or Neil Young or Leonard Cohen?

No. Jackson's appeal at the height of his powers was to superbly produced, performed and packaged inoffensive froth. We'll regard his music the way we regard Andy Warhol's pictures of Campbell Soup tins ... but not the way we regard a Bach toccata and fugue, or a generations-old Irish traditional dance tune, or even Bonnie Raitt playing blues/pop on slide guitar.

Classical music snob :p

BarnacleGrim
06-26-2009, 05:38 PM
I actually liked "Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough", it was pretty catchy and entertaining, but not very profound. I never thought of his songs to have much in the way of substance.

jack grebe
06-26-2009, 06:59 PM
His death is Farah's fault. When she died and got to heaven, God
granted her one wish. Her wish was that all the children on earth
would be safe.............God killed MJ.

Memphis Mike
06-26-2009, 07:06 PM
His death is Farah's fault. When she died and got to heaven, God
granted her one wish. Her wish was that all the children on earth
would be safe.............God killed MJ.

You sound like Jerry Falwell. I think God killed him too and Larry Flynt is LHAO.

None of the allegations against Jackson were ever proven. He was aquitted in a court of law.

jack grebe
06-26-2009, 07:32 PM
You sound like Jerry Falwell. I think God killed him too and Larry Flynt is LHAO.

None of the allegations against Jackson were ever proven. He was aquitted in a court of law.
Not all of the allegations were ever brought to court. He had the funds
to buy silence and did it often.........why was that? It was
not to keep it out of public view, cause it was already there.

Memphis Mike
06-26-2009, 07:54 PM
Not all of the allegations were ever brought to court. He had the funds
to buy silence and did it often.........why was that? It was
not to keep it out of public view, cause it was already there.

If I was falsely accused and had an extra 20 million to shut someone up with, I'd do the same thing.

Some of you need to read the history of Michael Jackson instead of believing the media hype.

The only accurate post on this thread is one by Tyler.

Jackson only identified with children because he was a child himself. He was never allowed a normal childhood. He was thrown right into the corporate music business at a very early age and forced to work by his undeserving and {abusive} father who was only interested in the money he could earn.

He never grew up and never had a chance to.

Some of you are incredibly stupid. Jackson led a tortured life. Was never happy and he died an early death as a result of it.

Prove that he was a child molester and I'll be a believer. However, I will show him the respect he deserves as a musical genius.

You know, Elvis prefered young girls that the Memphis Mafia could obtain for him at the Gates of Graceland. He even videotaped his escapades with them along with a lot of other people.

Why do you think he could never get rid of Tom Parker? Because COL. Tom had copies of the tapes. That's why.

WX
06-26-2009, 08:02 PM
Actually he's not dead, someone saw him having high tea with Elvis.

bobbys
06-26-2009, 08:03 PM
If I was falsely accused and had an extra 20 million to shut someone up with, I'd do the same thing.

Some of you need to read the history of Michael Jackson instead of believing the media hype.

The only accurate post on this thread is one by Tyler.

Jackson only identified with children because he was a child himself. He was never allowed a normal childhood. He was thrown right into the corporate music business at a very early age and forced to work by his undeserving and {abusive} father who was only interested in the money he could earn.

He never grew up and never had a chance to.

Some of you are incredibly stupid. Jackson led a tortured life. Was never happy and he died an early death as a result of it.

Prove that he was a child molester and I'll be a believer. However, I will show him the respect he deserves as a musical genius.

You know, Elvis prefered young girls that the Memphis Mafia could obtain for him at the Gates of Graceland. He even videotaped his escapades with them along with a lot of other people.

Why do you think he could never get rid of Tom Parker? Because COL. Tom had copies of the tapes. That's why..

I never heard that about Elvis but that seems a pretty big slam without any sort of proof

WX
06-26-2009, 08:07 PM
He was never allowed a normal childhood. He was thrown right into the corporate music business at a very early age and forced to work by his undeserving and {abusive} father who was only interested in the money he could earn.

That is certainly true.

Memphis Mike
06-26-2009, 10:36 PM
.

I never heard that about Elvis but that seems a pretty big slam without any sort of proof

You've never read or studied anything about Elvis Presley have you Dutch?

Read Cybil Shepard's book.

jbelow
06-26-2009, 10:46 PM
Michael Jackson was an American embarassment. While it's always a shame for a life to end in the middle, I can easily imagine that his demise is a source of great relief to the many whose lives and childrens' lives were distorted and mauled by his infantile behavior. The model he set for self destruction, physically and emotionally, is appalling, and the number of people who fell for it is emblematic of the sickness that American society has suffered from for the last 25 years.

I am astounded that so many people actually paid more than a passing glance of attention to the poor guy.

What do you expect from a guy sings "BEAT IT" and dances around with one glove on. Micheal Jackson is made up of so much plastic , he should be melted down and recycled into Leggo blocks and have the kids play with him for a change.

Memphis Mike
06-26-2009, 11:00 PM
What do you expect from a guy sings "BEAT IT" and dances around with one glove on. Micheal Jackson is made up of so much plastic , he should be melted down and recycled into Leggo blocks and have the kids play with him for a change.

So should all Republican Texans! When are you guys going to secede anyway? We're waiting.

jbelow
06-26-2009, 11:16 PM
So should all Republican Texans! When are you guys going to secede anyway? We're waiting.

Why secede when we can take America back?

bobbys
06-27-2009, 03:35 AM
You've never read or studied anything about Elvis Presley have you Dutch?

Read Cybil Shepard's book..

I dunno but im so sick of hearing about MJ i turned the channel to watch Vince sell SHAM WOW!!:D

BarnacleGrim
06-27-2009, 03:42 AM
Why secede when we can take America back?
Isn't Vidor the racist capital of the US? :rolleyes:

High C
06-27-2009, 09:18 AM
.

I dunno but im so sick of hearing about MJ i turned the channel to watch Vince sell SHAM WOW!!:D

You can use that stuff as a bilge pump!

High C
06-27-2009, 09:20 AM
Isn't Vidor the racist capital of the US? :rolleyes:

I've never heard of Vidor, but it seems unlikely. Most of the racist garbage I witness comes from Northeastern Yankees.

peter radclyffe
06-27-2009, 12:21 PM
Bankruptcy Court will dole it out. He's said to have been over $400M in debt.

Did anybody hear Bruce Swedien (MJ's recording engineer) on PBS yesterday? Interesting perspective. Odd, but interesting. Time for the media to move along to the next new "news." The coming funeral and eulogies should be quite a continuing circus. Get him in the ground, already!
with those debts, maybe he was worth more dead to someone, than alive, you never know

peter radclyffe
06-27-2009, 12:27 PM
If I was falsely accused and had an extra 20 million to shut someone up with, I'd do the same thing.

Some of you need to read the history of Michael Jackson instead of believing the media hype.

The only accurate post on this thread is one by Tyler.

Jackson only identified with children because he was a child himself. He was never allowed a normal childhood. He was thrown right into the corporate music business at a very early age and forced to work by his undeserving and {abusive} father who was only interested in the money he could earn.

He never grew up and never had a chance to.

Some of you are incredibly stupid. Jackson led a tortured life. Was never happy and he died an early death as a result of it.

Prove that he was a child molester and I'll be a believer. However, I will show him the respect he deserves as a musical genius.

You know, Elvis prefered young girls that the Memphis Mafia could obtain for him at the Gates of Graceland. He even videotaped his escapades with them along with a lot of other people.

Why do you think he could never get rid of Tom Parker? Because COL. Tom had copies of the tapes. That's why.
why couldnt mj get rid of his owners

jbelow
06-27-2009, 04:33 PM
Isn't Vidor the racist capital of the US? :rolleyes:

I do not think so. A person would have to have a hate filled heart to be a racist. I do not see that in my town. I have seen the bleeding heart liberal evolve into hateful and intolerant butt-wipes.

Lew Barrett
06-27-2009, 04:57 PM
CNN is all Jackson, all day. Including commentary by Jesse about Michael. Is there anything more boring than Jesse Jackson exhorting us to play fair with Michael? Well, yes there is as a matter of fact. CNN's endless coverage of the affair. Vapid stuff.

Osborne Russell
06-27-2009, 05:03 PM
CNN is all Jackson, all day. Including commentary by Jesse about Michael. Is there anything more boring than Jesse Jackson exhorting us to play fair with Michael? Well, yes there is as a matter of fact. CNN's endless coverage of the affair. Vapid stuff.

They cover the news they make, because it's more efficient that way. What would you rather do, learn Farsi, get the permits, and fly to Iran, or cut and paste from the company's files?

Michael Jackson had the same approach to music.

Paul Girouard
06-27-2009, 05:07 PM
I asked this on another thread, and got zip zero response. So why the hell did the Senate have a moment of silence for this guy ? A drug user of sorts , a guys who's what 14 Mil in debt , been accused of child diddling etc etc.

The country / leadership/ politician's / new media is so screwed up it does NOT know who to pay tribute to:rolleyes::(

Memphis Mike
06-27-2009, 05:39 PM
"The country / leadership/ politician's / new media is so screwed up it does NOT know who to pay tribute to:rolleyes::("

Yeah but it sure pisses off the Republicans!:)

Paul Girouard
06-27-2009, 05:58 PM
[quote=Memphis Mike;2241237

Yeah but it sure pisses off the Republicans!:)

[/quote]

Thats good the bastids! Anyone who thinks either political party has thier best interest at heart is a fool. If in doubt vote them out , incumbents, of any bent/ party affiliation , are the problem , they'll got theirs , so why change any thing.

They are the ones who decided to have this moment of silence for a person with various issues.

jbelow
06-27-2009, 05:58 PM
"The country / leadership/ politician's / new media is so screwed up it does NOT know who to pay tribute to:rolleyes::("

Yeah but it sure pisses off the Republicans!:)

You paid the the Republicans a compliment ! I bet Micheal Jackson was a Democrat.

pipefitter
06-27-2009, 06:30 PM
I never cared for MJ but it had occurred to me at the time that it wasn't about the music. It was about theatrics, modern dance and modern musical all rolled into one. That is what set him apart from just about everything else at the time. The choreography was flawless. He was a showman. To try to criticize the product categorically is perplexing.

As far as an embarrassment. . . compared to what? Men swapping spit in the streets or women doing the same? The walking pincushions? The tramp stamp mommies? The porn industry? Hollywood alone has enough embarrassing ammo to last till eternity and yet people from all walks flock to put their dollars down. It's amazing as to what can be sold as art these days or how affixing art to the condition grants license towards acceptable eccentricity. How about grown men with children of their own, lusting after young women that could easily represent their friends children or our definition of the difference between childhood and adulthood? She's over 18 so it's ok?

As far as I am concerned, he was no more extreme or pathetic than what makes up the freak show that is our society today and in many respects, mild and outdated by today's comparison.

Look at the behavior we are (have been) willing to accept from our elected officials.

Memphis Mike
06-27-2009, 06:45 PM
"As far as an embarrassment. . . compared to what? Men swapping spit in the streets or women doing the same?"

Man you got that right PF. I gotta look at these big ol man girls that live across the street from me doing that all the time.

They're ain't an ounce of feminity in none of em and they're extremely repulsive.:(

High C
06-27-2009, 06:50 PM
...I gotta look at these big ol man girls that live across the street from me doing that all the time.

They're ain't an ounce of feminity in none of em and they're extremely repulsive.:(

Can't look away, can ya? :D

pcford
06-27-2009, 06:55 PM
As far as an embarrassment. . . compared to what? Men swapping spit in the streets or women doing the same? The walking pincushions? The tramp stamp mommies? The porn industry? Hollywood alone has enough embarrassing ammo to last till eternity and yet people from all walks flock to put their dollars down. It's amazing as to what can be sold as art these days or how affixing art to the condition grants license towards acceptable eccentricity. How about grown men with children of their own, lusting after young women that could easily represent their friends children or our definition of the difference between childhood and adulthood? She's over 18 so it's ok?

As far as I am concerned, he was no more extreme or pathetic than what makes up the freak show that is our society today and in many respects, mild and outdated by today's comparison.

Look at the behavior we are (have been) willing to accept from our elected officials.

Hey, we got a pucker factor going on here.

bobbys
06-27-2009, 06:55 PM
"As far as an embarrassment. . . compared to what? Men swapping spit in the streets or women doing the same?"

Man you got that right PF. I gotta look at these big ol man girls that live across the street from me doing that all the time.

They're ain't an ounce of feminity in none of em and they're extremely repulsive.:(.

I dunno i have some gals that live together next door, One came screaming out the door while the other one jumped on her bed and was screaming to.

A rat ran in the house.

I went and caught it and was rewarded with a lot of cookies!!!.

You just have to know how to work it to your cookie advantage!!!:D

Memphis Mike
06-27-2009, 07:06 PM
Can't look away, can ya? :D

They're not the type ya want to look at. Believe me. I just wish they would leave.

BarnacleGrim
06-27-2009, 07:17 PM
I do not think so. A person would have to have a hate filled heart to be a racist. I do not see that in my town. I have seen the bleeding heart liberal evolve into hateful and intolerant butt-wipes.
You've seen this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJmdzrQb1jk), right? :eek:

Don't worry, though, I don't believe everything I hear, whether it's coming from Ted Turner or Rupert Murdoch, hence the :rolleyes:.

Bob Adams
06-27-2009, 08:07 PM
For Gawd's sake, now the Revum Jackson is sticking his nose into Micheal's death. Bury the Dude already!

Lew Barrett
06-27-2009, 09:19 PM
For Gawd's sake, now the Revum Jackson is sticking his nose into Micheal's death. Bury the Dude already!

Put that in caps, Bob! JJ is all over this! His next cause celebre!

pefjr
06-28-2009, 02:40 PM
http://www.ericptak.com/emails-and-forwards/wp-uploads/Latest_Motivational_Posters/19.jpg

pipefitter
06-28-2009, 04:01 PM
.

I dunno i have some gals that live together next door, One came screaming out the door while the other one jumped on her bed and was screaming to.

A rat ran in the house.

I went and caught it and was rewarded with a lot of cookies!!!.

You just have to know how to work it to your cookie advantage!!!:D

Did you happen to notice that the cookies had these peculiar looking raisins on them?

http://www.pestcontrol-products.com/rodent/roof_rat_droppings.jpg

ishmael
06-28-2009, 07:05 PM
"People say I'm weird, but have a look at Michael Jackson. Now there's a weird little pixie."

Frank Zappa

A good commentary here:

http://tinyurl.com/lcznue

I was never a big fan of his music. Some of his earlier adult stuff was catchy, and the man sure could dance. But once he started bleaching his skin and slicing up his face, he lost all interest for me.

A sad man.

P.S. I find more than a bit disconcerting this ongoing media fascination with a person who had become a rather macabre and unhealthy expression of American culture. Hours and hours of the same stories, repeated ad nauseum. He was a tragic man, who made a strong impact on pop music and died a terrible death. Let the man rest in peace!

Lew Barrett
06-28-2009, 10:01 PM
I had an epiphany about this thread (well, about poor MJ, actually) while sanding my decks today. Weird what you think about when you're sanding your boat....

Suicide. Doctor present, sort of hush hush, highly medicated, unhappy and getting more so. Suicide with a little help from some friends.

Tom Montgomery
06-28-2009, 10:05 PM
The possibility of suicide occurred to me today, as well.

ishmael
06-28-2009, 10:09 PM
"Suicide. Doctor present, sort of hush hush, highly medicated, unhappy and getting more so. Suicide with a little help from some friends."

That sounds plausible, Lew. And it wouldn't have taken a doc. He undoubtedly knew how to inject himself, and had the lethal dose of drugs.

JimD
06-28-2009, 10:27 PM
I am in agreement with those who have seen enough horrendously bad old Jackson Five vids in the last few days on every news show in the land to last a life time or two. This is the problem when famous people you don't like die. You get to relive every sorry moment of their careers.

Rich VanValkenburg
06-28-2009, 10:59 PM
Worst headline I heard was ABC News today, "As the world comes to grips with the death of Michael Jackson...." ah, c'mon. It appears that he deliberately bid over Paul McCartney for the copyrights to the Beatle's music, he played with other kids' kids, and so on.... What is it with rich and famous that they have to create this surreal world for themselves and make us live in it? The only thing I have to come to grips with is how to make the house payment.

Next thing is they'll have a MJ National Holiday and celibrate it more than we do Veterans' Day.

ishmael
06-28-2009, 11:13 PM
"Next thing is they'll have a MJ National Holiday and celibrate it more than we do Veterans' Day."

How to nip this crap in the bud? The guy was an entertainer, nothing more. But I agree, I can hear it singing in the background, a call for a National Holiday.

Weird ****e. I'm having heart pains around it, but I don't know how to stop it. Reason doesn't seem to work.

BrianW
06-29-2009, 03:28 AM
"Escape From Neverland" Game...

http://www.funrestarea.com/pages/escape_neverland.shtml

ishmael
06-29-2009, 07:13 AM
Just heard the "medical pundits" on the morning talkies say, "Well, if Michael was taking prescription drugs I'm sure it was all under control." Who are these people kidding? What a bunch of happy horse****e.

Flying Orca
06-29-2009, 07:49 AM
You know, if you don't have or watch television, you don't get subjected to all this crap. If you don't like it, do something about it.

oznabrag
06-29-2009, 08:53 AM
You know, if you don't have or watch television, you don't get subjected to all this crap. If you don't like it, do something about it.

That sounds like the first rule of keeping a cat as a pet: 'If it never comes inside the house, it'll never puke on the couch.';)

Flying Orca
06-29-2009, 11:30 AM
Yeah, but cat ownership has an upside. ;)

Tylerdurden
06-29-2009, 12:18 PM
Lot going on in the world besides Jackson but you wouldn't know it from the coverage. One great big neon distraction.

I guess Mike serves his masters even in death.

WX
06-29-2009, 10:02 PM
The world has gone stupid over this.

Glen Longino
06-29-2009, 10:11 PM
The world has gone stupid over this.

I'm afraid it's only getting started!
The media here has geared up for days and days of ghoulish celebration.:rolleyes:

L.W. Baxter
06-29-2009, 11:08 PM
I saw Dateline was grilling the Doctor's lawyer. Those are some hardcore journalists. Really fascinating.

In case you couldn't tell, I was being sarcastic! --Homer Simpson

Bruce Hooke
06-30-2009, 12:04 AM
Geezzz...if you don't like what some media outlets are covering, try other media outlets. NPR has had some stories on Jackson but has mostly been covering other things. Ditto for my local newspaper and the Christian Science Monitor weekly. There's plenty of good media choices that are not focused on the latest "hot" story.

pefjr
06-30-2009, 09:28 AM
I'm afraid it's only getting started!
The media here has geared up for days and days of ghoulish celebration.:rolleyes:
The resurrection and sightings will start soon.