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Tylerdurden
06-24-2009, 07:57 AM
Human progress is furthered, not by conformity, but by aberration.
~ H.L. Mencken
For some time, I have been trying to figure out why the nation and we as individuals are in the fix we are in now. Many reasons manifest themselves. We labor under a government of such monstrous reach and epic incompetence that it makes the Soviets now look like a paragon of efficiency and probity. We suffer under a ruling class that has not simply been a gangster government under Obamunism but has been this way since the defeat of the original Constitution in 1865. With each illegitimate war since 1898, the power of the Federal government has increased exponentially. With each manufactured crisis, liberties and freedoms have withered and died. This is simply the latest and greatest improvement in the ongoing process of our overseers to find emerging ways to increase the output of our slavery.
I have alluded before that we live in the country and have occasion to run across orphaned animals. We have horses and chickens and other assorted animals on the Circle A (http://anti-state.com/forum/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=13981) Ranch. My wife happens to be a fantastic gardener and the reincarnation of Dr. Doolittle. We discovered by following the horrid cacophony of rabbit screams three orphaned cottontails, two of which promptly died. My wife is now nursing the survivor and hoping to brighten his life expectancy in this mortal coil. As is her wont, she is an inveterate researcher and proceeded to go on the ’net and search out advice on care and feeding of a rabbit which is not one of our areas of husbandry expertise. What struck her were the countless admonitions to seek government assistance and report it to wildlife "authorities" or the zoo. I look around and converse with colleagues and associates to find my fellow Americans increasingly frightened or unfamiliar with doing anything without someone’s permission. Whether at work or play, we:


obey speed limits (http://www.motorists.org/) that have nothing do with safety and simply provide revenue to our rulers
pay property taxes (http://www.taxtyranny.ca/favicon.ico) which inevitably increase the yoke around our necks locally and pay for the intellectual suicide pact call government schooling
pay extraordinary sales taxes (http://www.taxfoundation.org/favicon.ico) on local and state purchases to subsidize the countless layers of bureaucracy that choke citizen and business productivity everyday
stop locally at a US Border Patrol checkpoint nearly twenty miles north of the Mexican border to be asked if we are American citizens and a visual check of the interior of our vehicles
sit idly by while the various levels of government erect observation devices (http://www.highwayrobbery.net/) at traffic intersections to increase revenue streams
receive property tax bills (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601213&sid=aWSD3gPg9s7o) on our real estate which increase in assessment while market prices decrease
are required to have permission from the US Forest Circus or National Park Service to hunt, play or work on lands expropriated by our betters in government

I have discovered the silver bullet and it is from the University of the Intuitively Obvious: question authority and maintain a skeptical attitude about all facets of government and governance. That’s it…simple. Even those of us who have invested considerable intellectual heavy-lifting in discerning why the government in all its consistent brutality and blood-raged destruction commands such a loyal and slavish quality in men are baffled by the absence of this simple epistemological tool to ask why on a consistent basis from stem to stern. If enough vigilance is maintained at the outset and embryonic stages of so much government mischief, much of the madness could be strangled in its statist cradle through peaceful discourse, non-compliance, shunning and development of innovative strategies to sabotage the government’s machinations. Most government programs start out with promises of nirvana and positive outcomes but the history of man shows that this is essentially iatrogenic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iatrogenesis) and hubristic. The state is a violent actor by necessity to preserve its power and expand it, so inevitably the promises dissolve into a nightmarish brew of incompetence, lethality and baleful societal consequences and we are stuck with the myriad Frankenstein monsters shambling about with the vague promises of eternal goodness and heaven on earth.

One may say that the horse is out of the barn and we are truly stuck with the state of affairs and no amount of reform will fix DC and its loyal minions at this stage of their maturation and dominance and you would be correct. The rub is this: the FEDGOD will fall and it will be in the next 12–24 months and much like the USSR, it will perish of its own internal Marxoid contradictions (http://www.amazon.com/Knowledge-Decisions-Thomas-Sowell/dp/0465037380/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245689128&sr=8-1). Foreign wars, self-induced economic calamity and sheer naked arrogance will force it to fold and dissolve as a ruling elite. This is a window that rarely opens and the opportunities will be tremendous – for both sides. The furloughed politicos will spread their contagion when they flee the ruins of the DC power structure and seek to encourage the usual suspects among government workers and gullible subjects to help resurrect this monstrosity that has been astride our necks like a decomposing albatross (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/326766/albatross_around_ones_neck_the_origin.html). Truth serum will be necessary and that all starts with the kind of skepticism and incredulity that seems to characterize most everything we do except our attitude toward our rulers. Cross-examination is the engine of truth. Question every bit of alleged government authority which emerges from the ashes. This is one reason Thomas Jefferson (http://www.monticello.org/reports/quotes/liberty.html) was agitating for constant revolt for the tree of liberty. Government is a fungal growth that cannot be checked without constantly striking the root and taking whatever measures are necessary to curb its growth.

(http://lewrockwell.com/buppert/buppert26.1.html)

Tylerdurden
06-24-2009, 07:57 AM
You won’t find this kind of critical thinking taught in the universities or any facet of the school systems because skepticism and clear thinking will be the end of them and the whole rotting mold growth choking American civilization called government. When was the last time you saw a government sponsored university study which called for the reduction and/or elimination of a statist rule or department? You don’t have to be a philosophy major or graduate to realize that Socratic drilling (http://www.criticalthinking.org/store-page.cfm?P=products&ItemID=296&catalogID=217&cateID=132) works. This is simply the process where you repeatedly ask why to a set of explanations until either you are satisfied the meritorious answer has been given or the shoddy intellectual construction is bared for all to see. It bears repeating: the entire artifice of the state is based on the threat or employment of violence to meet its ends, so it is morally illegitimate and reprehensible from the starting blocks. You have the moral high ground because all government for the most part is an elaborate shell game to develop proxy relationships with servant classes who obey at the urging of a lash or worse for the material and power benefit of the ruling class. Wake up, helots (http://www.livius.org/so-st/sparta/helots.html)!

This is the chance we have. A dozen, fifty or hundreds of resistance and secessionist entities are going to move into the vacuum left by the great sucking abyss of the FEDGOD collapse. Hundreds of laboratories will emerge to test every variant of political collective and ordered enterprise imaginable. I have little hope for the subjects and somnambulant mental zombies that stumble around the cities of the Left Coast and the Northeast (Vermont and New Hampshire excepted) will do anymore other than instantly resurrect facsimiles of DC patterns of rule and other processes of national socialism but between the Marxist coastlines; the life and times of ordinary Americans will take extraordinary turns to develop from scratch freedom-oriented communities and spasms of spontaneous order. People may finally awaken and look at their neighbors and try to do the right thing. They may seek a system that asks, persuades and cooperates instead of bullies, collectivizes and forces through violent means the shape and texture of human relationships. They will be the vanguard of the men and women who finally awaken from the five millennia fever-dream of enabling various strangers the power of life and death (http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills) over thousands and millions simply because they have surrendered the most basic right of all; leave us the hell alone.
Turn off the television, grab a book(s) and have conversations with family and like-minded friends. Go out and do things. Start a garden, fix your fencing, move to the country and reach out to the community you live in. Open your mind to the possibilities before us. Most of all, question every aspect of your relationship with authority. Does it derive from fear or respect? Does it emanate from first-hand experience or second-hand knowledge? How many times have you truly asked why a certain bureaucratic edict must be followed? More importantly, what is your line in the sand where your servitude stops and your resistance begins? Just say no to big government. Once a man establishes his limitations for tolerance of interference in his life and adopts a resolute stand against the forces buffeting him against his will, the world will change.
If you are still reading this, you are the Resistance.
http://lewrockwell.com/buppert/buppert26.1.html

Bob (oh, THAT Bob)
06-25-2009, 04:19 AM
Valid points, at a time when people protest in the streets of Iran against what they believe to be a rigged election. Threatened with violence, they are courageous. Most here support them. Most here also believe that we cannot help them, that if they are to have the freedom of the government of their choosing, they, themselves, must fight for it. Yet few endorse doing the same on our own soil, thinking it treasonous. The violations that you have listed, each singly, are not worth revolution, but looking at the declaration of independence, it is a list of "repeated injuries and usurpations". Is the current list no different? I find myself, uncomfortably, agreeing with you Mark.

But I also think that in the immediate aftermath of a revolutionary victory (or government collapse) might be what the world has witnessed in Beirut, or more recently Baghdad, i.e., immediate pursuit of power and control by gangs of criminals. The problem in both cases were that the majority of citizens were unprepared to step forward and exert control. There needs to be coherent plans in place before things break down, not just individually but also in terms of group goals, because when things do break down, the worst elements will rapidly seize the opportunity to exploit the situation for their own ends. And even at our most independent, these days there isn't 1 in 100 who has the resources to produce alone everything that they need to live. Growing season is also a factor. There will still need to be collective cooperation. What is your plan?

Krunch
06-25-2009, 04:34 AM
But I also think that in the immediate aftermath of a revolutionary victory (or government collapse) might be what the world has witnessed in Beirut, or more recently Baghdad, i.e., immediate pursuit of power and control by gangs of criminals. The problem in both cases were that the majority of citizens were unprepared to step forward and exert control. There needs to be coherent plans in place before things break down, not just individually but also in terms of group goals, because when things do break down, the worst elements will rapidly seize the opportunity to exploit the situation for their own ends. And even at our most independent, these days there isn't 1 in 100 who has the resources to produce alone everything that they need to live. Growing season is also a factor. There will still need to be collective cooperation. What is your plan?

It was more than a year after shooting broke out at Lexington and Concord before we had the Declaration of Independence.

And it was 13 years before we had even a rudimentary Constitution.

Somehow the criminals didn't take over.

On the other hand, today, some 235 years later, they have.

Tylerdurden
06-25-2009, 05:03 AM
Krunch has it right. Some faith in humanity would be nice.

Though I tend to be called the gloomster here I think I am more an optimist than my detractors by far . I have the belief that the people as a whole are good and will do the right thing. My detractors one the other hand believe mankind is inherently evil and needs control and coercion to keep them in line. If you have any doubt on this go read Bigfella's thread on liscense plate scanning. He see's criminals everywhere whereas I think they can be easily found hiding in big government.;)

On the revolution. Lets remmeber what preceeded the shot heard round the world. Do we remmeber what the british mission was?
Disarm was the operative.
I think the same will hold true this time around.

hansp77
06-25-2009, 05:09 AM
You won’t find this kind of critical thinking taught in the universities or any facet of the school systems
Patently wrong in my university, my country, and I can be quite sure that it is so within yours too.
I completed the requirements for three majors in my humanities degree, but could only claim two- the third one which I couldn't claim was for Social Theory. Within the discipline you will find much, and much more sophisticated, critical thought such as this (and far far beyond it).

The Bigfella
06-25-2009, 05:13 AM
Krunch has it right. Some faith in humanity would be nice.

Though I tend to be called the gloomster here I think I am more an optimist than my detractors by far . I have the belief that the people as a whole are good and will do the right thing. My detractors one the other hand believe mankind is inherently evil and needs control and coercion to keep them in line. If you have any doubt on this go read Bigfella's thread on liscense plate scanning. He see's criminals everywhere whereas I think they can be easily found hiding in big government.;)

On the revolution. Lets remmeber what preceeded the shot heard round the world. Do we remmeber what the british mission was?
Disarm was the operative.
I think the same will hold true this time around.

As you well know Mark, I have posted before about my work in the area of criminal behaviour. You may recall my posts talking about the propensity of various percentages of the population wrt their interactions with other people.

I've written before about claims that 7% of the population having a basic propensity to always rip off their fellow man whenever and wherever they can.... and about 2/3rds of the population having a propensity to always do the right thing by their fellow man. The balance might go either way - depending on how they are treated by governments.

In the thread you refer to, I pointed out that up to 10% of vehicles on the road being unregistered and uninsured. Do you not see that behaviour as ripping off those who, for the common good, subscribe to government directives regarding the registration and insuring of motor vehicles?

You often point out your qualifications and licences held. Surely the regard that you hold such qualifications in is the same thing? Would you do the work without the required authorisations and licences?

Tylerdurden
06-25-2009, 05:29 AM
You often point out your qualifications and licences held. Surely the regard that you hold such qualifications in is the same thing? Would you do the work without the required authorisations and licences?


Yes, A man stands on his reputation. Licenses are useless except for revenue. I see it everyday as the licensed do work of questionable quality. Just like the guilds of days past its a means of control for one group to dominate a trade and limit others.

A was a pilot before my license as good before as I was after. Its only there to let others know I have reached a state level of incompetence. I can think of many ATR pilots I would not have faith in as pilot in command.

The Bigfella
06-25-2009, 05:37 AM
Yes, A man stands on his reputation. Licenses are useless except for revenue. I see it everyday as the licensed do work of questionable quality. Just like the guilds of days past its a means of control for one group to dominate a trade and limit others.

A was a pilot before my license as good before as I was after. Its only there to let others know I have reached a state level of incompetence. I can think of many ATR pilots I would not have faith in as pilot in command.

... and car registrations, involving, for example, annual safety inspections and compulsory insurance to protect third parties are equally useless?

You would prefer a system, obviously involving more lawyers and judges and sheriffs chasing unpaid debts? That's what we'd have without registrations and compulsory insurances... what with 10.4 million motor vehicle accidents in the US in 2006... that'd be fun eh?

Tylerdurden
06-25-2009, 05:46 AM
... and car registrations, involving, for example, annual safety inspections and compulsory insurance to protect third parties are equally useless?

You would prefer a system, obviously involving more lawyers and judges and sheriffs chasing unpaid debts? That's what we'd have without registrations and compulsory insurances... what with 10.4 million motor vehicle accidents in the US in 2006... that'd be fun eh?


Its well known now that state without inspections have no higher accident rates than those that do. Its all about revenue.
And yes Judges and sheriffs are supposed to chase unpaid debt.

What you fail to understand is there are no guarantees in life.
Slaves are won't to be fed clothed and cared for. Freemen seek no such guaranty only the opportunity to excel.
There is risk in everything and the pursuit of protection from all risk ensures mediocrity. All it takes is a little common sense to understand this. Look around and see what all this insurance has brought us.
You don't see it as you bread and butter is dependent on it.
Like I say Masters in Business Apocalypse. Everything you say is suspect.

The Bigfella
06-25-2009, 06:04 AM
Everything you say is suspect.

I suspect that most everything I say has more validity than that suspect conspiracy crap of yours. I don't know why it gets your goat up so much Mark? Its just a different point of view. I hope you enjoy your suspect point of view as much as I enjoy mine.

The funny thing is, you never seem to be able to repudiate what I say - just slag off at it. Feel free to repudiate it.... if you can. I suspect you can't - hence your insults.

Tylerdurden
06-25-2009, 06:22 AM
I suspect that most everything I say has more validity than that suspect conspiracy crap of yours. I don't know why it gets your goat up so much Mark? Its just a different point of view. I hope you enjoy your suspect point of view as much as I enjoy mine.

The funny thing is, you never seem to be able to repudiate what I say - just slag off at it. Feel free to repudiate it.... if you can. I suspect you can't - hence your insults.


We live in two different worlds and under two different concepts.

You hate America and the principles it was founded under as anyone who has read your posts could clearly understand. You views are as foreign to us as a Redneck wearing Bot chain, eating monkey meat on a stick while sucking down a bottle of Sam Miguel with his feet dangling in the Lungapo.

You being the big supporter of big government with subservient citizens unarmed and afraid and myself wanting small government with strong questioning citizens armed and willing to defend each other.

This thread is about questioning Authority, Something you will never do. I don't repudiate your world, live any damn way you want.
You repudiate mine and do your best to tell us stupid Americans how we should live. I am telling you to kiss my arse and to go back to your control grid as your concepts are not welcome here.
We discuss freedom, something that clearly scares you.

The Bigfella
06-25-2009, 06:37 AM
We live in two different worlds and under two different concepts.

If you say so. I'm not sure what you mean by two different concepts.

You hate America and the principles it was founded under as anyone who has read your posts could clearly understand. You views are as foreign to us as a Redneck wearing Bot chain, eating monkey meat on a stick while sucking down a bottle of Sam Miguel with his feet dangling in the Lungapo.

I don't hate America. Your allegation is no more supportable than if leveled it at any of your countrymen who also disagree with you. Nice descent into the gutter mate.

You being the big supporter of big government with subservient citizens unarmed and afraid and myself wanting small government with strong questioning citizens armed and willing to defend each other.

Funny, over on another thread, I've just been accused of the exact opposite. How's that? Given your comprehension problems, I'll say it one more time... I've never called for the disarming of any society. I go shooting more often and shoot more rounds than at least 99% of the people on this forum. If you want to believe otherwise, it wouldn't surprise me.

This thread is about questioning Authority, Something you will never do. I don't repudiate your world, live any damn way you want.

I question authority every day, which is probably why you have a problem with my posts - because I actually do it effectively. Its my job to question authority - and I do it well - and I get paid very well to do it as a result.

You repudiate mine and do your best to tell us stupid Americans how we should live. I am telling you to kiss my arse and to go back to your control grid as your concepts are not welcome here.
We discuss freedom, something that clearly scares you.

If you say you are a stupid American, then I'll take you at your word. As for your instruction, from what I understand, its a bit too big to kiss, btw.

A recurring theme of yours is freedom - and your concerns about limitations on your freedom. I don't have a single fear about my freedoms - not one.

...

Tylerdurden
06-25-2009, 07:12 AM
+1 Funny :D

John Smith
06-25-2009, 07:48 AM
I'll be among the first to admit that our government steps into places it doesn't belong, by making illegal actions between consenting adults.

I'll not agree that speed limits have nothing to do with safety, at least on roads with considerable traffic.

I also don't buy the inspection concept as not reducing accident. I know people who only get things on their car fixed because it's due for inspection.

Property taxes are less related to the value to the property than to the cost of running the town, which has to pay today's prices to heat/cool their buildings, put gas in their vehicles, maintain the schools (if not add schools), etc.

Bob (oh, THAT Bob)
06-25-2009, 04:38 PM
Krunch has it right. Some faith in humanity would be nice.

Though I tend to be called the gloomster here I think I am more an optimist than my detractors by far . I have the belief that the people as a whole are good and will do the right thing. My detractors one the other hand believe mankind is inherently evil and needs control and coercion to keep them in line. If you have any doubt on this go read Bigfella's thread on liscense plate scanning. He see's criminals everywhere whereas I think they can be easily found hiding in big government.;)

On the revolution. Lets remmeber what preceeded the shot heard round the world. Do we remmeber what the british mission was?
Disarm was the operative.
I think the same will hold true this time around.

No, no, I agree, that most people are good. But the average person reacts very slowly to crisis, with too much patience, in fact. The greedy move very quickly, and have the ability to move more quickly than in the past. I agree that criminals are running things now. But recent history has shown that power vacuums are very rapidly replaced these days, usually by the wrong element. Where in the world is there a sustained anarchy? I would like the freedom, but history has not been kind. So, I'm saying, better have a plan for what will replace what you are fighting. The US did a poor job of that in Iraq, poor "failure mode analysis"* all around.

I also agree that disarming will be the first step. You and I have not too different views, mine are a bit more moderate, but I am very suspicious of what's going down, not because I hate Obama, I voted for him, but because I think the debt he has been left with will drown even the best administration.

* Failure Mode Analysis: Think of every possible thing that can go wrong. Rank that mode by Severity, Occurrence, and (difficulty of) Detectability. Multiply the ranks. Assign the most (preventive) resources to the modes with the highest score, and also those with the highest Severity, even if the Occurrence and Detectability are low, because even if the chances are low, if severity is high, watch out for that 1 in 10,000 shot.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
06-25-2009, 05:32 PM
Krunch has it right. Some faith in humanity would be nice.

Though I tend to be called the gloomster here I think I am more an optimist than my detractors by far ..


I don't think you're a gloomster or an optimist. I think you suffer from a personality disorder of some kind.

Cuyahoga Chuck
06-25-2009, 06:00 PM
Good ol' Lew Whatisname! A hell of a guy but inclined to bellyache too much.
Still have a mortal fear of using your keyboard, Tyler?

Tylerdurden
06-25-2009, 08:25 PM
Good ol' Lew Whatisname! A hell of a guy but inclined to bellyache too much.
Still have a mortal fear of using your keyboard, Tyler?

I figured sooner or later Bigfellas retarded cousin would chime in.

Tylerdurden
06-25-2009, 08:25 PM
I don't think you're a gloomster or an optimist. I think you suffer from a personality disorder of some kind.

Not really, other than an aversion to married strippers I am fine.;)

The Bigfella
06-25-2009, 10:06 PM
Not really, other than an aversion to married strippers I am fine.;)

Tell us your story about the counsellor's wife again. Is that what led to the aversion to married strippers? Just because the husband liked to watch?

Cuyahoga Chuck
06-25-2009, 10:51 PM
What about Obamunism?
Is that a new dance craze? A variant of yoga? The latest thing in hip-hop?

Cuyahoga Chuck
06-25-2009, 11:07 PM
I figured sooner or later Bigfellas retarded cousin would chime in.

Kaaaaa-ching!

bobbys
06-25-2009, 11:28 PM
I Q the Woodenboatforum Stuffy old guard!!:eek:

Cuyahoga Chuck
06-25-2009, 11:37 PM
"Question Authority: Always and Forever Hereafter "

A sterling mantra for someone who wants to spend his lifetime tilting at every windmill on the horizon.
The vast percentage of the rules are reasonable and bucking them, for the hell of it, is a good way to dribble your life away for no rational benefit.
"You may fire when ready, Gridley."

Tylerdurden
06-26-2009, 07:17 AM
Kaaaaa-ching!

And you wonder why these clowns persist. They live to push the button as they cannot stand on their own. They always need a nanny to protect them.;)