Hatches and Butterfly hatch thread

[Larks]

A bit of a follow on from Ians' revived "Ventilating hatch on Grantala" thread. For those of us in the planning, building, rebuilding, modifying, restoring or any other mode that has us looking at hatches and what style to use and how to build them:

Please show us your hatches!!:) In particular ideas for Buttefly hatches and Sliding hatches, but any other innovative or particularly attractive hatch ideas that you may have incorporated into your vessels.......Pleeeease!!!????

[RFNK]

This might be a bit away from what you intend but when restoring the Folkboat, I installed a couple of mushroom vents. I found it really difficult to find good ones so ended up with light stainless, cheap and nasty ones. I've since seen better ones available in bronze etc. but they're really expensive. However, when I was given the Twister to restore, it came with two really great mushroom vents in chromed bronze - brand unknown. I've brought one to Vietnam and am trying to find a foundry to replicate it. If I can, I'll ask them to make about 10. This coming weekend I'm heading out to a village where I believe they do bronze casting so here's hoping! Rick

[Larks]

Keep us informed Rick....and don't forget to spread the love if you do manage to get som made..

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

.
Maurice Griffiths' leak-proof hatch -- as he said, it will only leak if submerged....


http://www.woodenboatfittings.com.au/public/mg-hatch.jpg

[RFNK]

If successful, I'll let you know. Rick

[webfoot]

Before;

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq304/cmerriam/Phoenix/p87.jpg

During;

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq304/cmerriam/Phoenix/p89.jpg

After;

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq304/cmerriam/Phoenix/Butterflyhatch.jpg

1955 Paul Luke, 33' Yawl

[paladin]

Those screw heads really need to be better seated......

[floatingkiwi]

Those screw heads really need to be better seated......
Are you concerned about injury they could inflict?

[paladin]

a bit of that plus the hatch will leak....

[PeterSibley]

This is Stephen's skylight from Carlotta ....I hope he doesn't mind me posting it .

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL282/9443996/17245530/367610652.jpg

What I would like to know is what modifications to the basic design would readers make so a skylight was fit for deep ocean use ? In other words occasional submersion in green water .

[oakman]

I would fabricate a solid cover so that tons of water don't shatter the glass. To be added in the event of weather, not perm.

O

[PeterSibley]

Agreed , a couple of metal plates probably but I was thinking of improvements to the normal gasket ,seals and rebate setup .

[RFNK]

Why not just use thicker, shatter-proof glass?

By the way, I took my old mushroom vent out to a craft village about 20km from Hanoi and found a guy who casts bronze (I hope it's bronze!!) artifacts using traditional clay molding methods. I've asked him to cast 10 vents. They'll probably be a bit rough and I'm not confident of the quality of the metal but I think it's worth having a look to see how they come out. It was about 40 degrees when I went out there but still good fun riding along through the paddies looking for the village and great to see the traditional setup. The quality of finish these guys achieve from these very rough backyard and footpath operations is really unbelievable. I'll take some photos when I go out later in the week to pick up the vents. Rick

[PeterSibley]

Rick ,I'm jealous ! I would LOVE to see the way those guys do it .I've read up a bit on of "third world " technique and what those guys can do with limited materials is very impressive .If the alloy is important to you the best way would probably be to supply specified ingots from the big city .However unless the fitting is going to be submerged the alloy probably isn't that important .

If that bloke is good and the produce acceptable there might be a market for his wares in Oz ? He might appreciate the custom .

[kazeai1969]

I would really love to see some pictures of the village, process and finished product....
I have a nice old mushroom vent on the bow of my Folkboat....

[WX]

I've taken some photos of my main hatch cover, it's rather individual and workman like in finish but it may give a idea or two. I'll post them tomorrow.

[RFNK]

OK, I'll take the camera and see what I can do. Rick

[WX]

Here's my input.

http://bambooman.gallery.netspace.net.au/albums/Redwing/mainhatch.jpg

http://bambooman.gallery.netspace.net.au/albums/Redwing/maninhatch_raised.jpg

[Larks]

That's quite interesting Gary, does it also slide back wth the leaves folded away? It looks like there is a track there....??

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Pictures tonight or tomorrow.

Meanwhile, a point about butterfly skylights - they are much less likely to leak if the glazing is flush with or slightly proud of the surround - in other words, use thick glass - be it toughened, armour glass of what you will. The water won't sit in the dip and work through the putty, Sikaflex or whatever...

They are also a d------ sight stronger, of course.

There are two ways to rainproof them:

1. Fit a good cover (only works when closed, of course)

2. Stow an inverted dinghy over it (works in the open position for rain but not spray, but cuts down light...)

[floatingkiwi]

Pictures tonight or tomorrow.

Meanwhile, a point about butterfly skylights - they are much less likely to leak if the glazing is flush with or slightly proud of the surround - in other words, use thick glass - be it toughened, armour glass of what you will. The water won't sit in the dip and work through the putty, Sikaflex or whatever...

They are also a d------ sight stronger, of course.

There are two ways to rainproof them:

1. Fit a good cover (only works when closed, of course)

2. Stow an inverted dinghy over it (works in the open position for rain but not spray, but cuts down light...)
Do you mean to say,Sir, that there is no possible way to build a waterproof skylight?
I find that rather disheartening, in the name of modern man and all the years of our combined workmanship, that we cannot construct a device that lets in light but is resilient to water!

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

That is precisely what I mean!

Let us assume that the drip channels are all clear, that the drip rails are all present and correct, that the glazing is as I have recommended. Let us further assume that the leaves have not warped even slightly. We now have four flat piece of teak surrounding a pane of glass, sitting on four other flat pieces of teak which are attached to a coachroof, attached to a boat, and we are expecting perfect contact all the way round...

Adding rubber strips etc does not help because as soon as you pull the leaf down to get a good seal on the rubber you distort it.

So you make a cover and put up with it. The cover can have windows in it...

[floatingkiwi]

Ok, I see. I didn't realize you were only talkin' about one style of hatch. I oughta read more.Cheers.

[WX]

Larks, no it doesn't slide. The first hatch I made did but I got the rails slightly out of parallel, so it tended to be loose when closed and tight when open. I figured it was easier to build a new hinged hatch cover than replace the runners...some may argue that, but I couldn't face doing it all again. The hatch cover is flat because I had planned putting a Badger style rotating dodger in it...still might one day.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Indeed not. THIS ONE works perfectly (but requires more wood and more deck space...)



.
Maurice Griffiths' leak-proof hatch -- as he said, it will only leak if submerged....



http://www.woodenboatfittings.com.au/public/mg-hatch.jpg

[PeterSibley]

I have been thinking in terms of a double wall structure like the Maurice Griffiths hatch above .It seems reasonable to use the same technique with a skylight ,in combination with rubber seals of the automotive type .

Has anyone else thought on this ?

[mobjack68]

Those screw heads really need to be better seated......

Nothing I like better than a real tight screw.....thanks paladin!!

[PeterSibley]

Bump ...lest this fall .

[Don Kurylko]

These are the hatches I built for my new boat and the sources I pinched them from.

Companionway hatch - Sam Manning (WB 67:91)

http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/archive/0147wbf.jpg


Skylight – Duffy Dodge (WB 92:28)

http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/archive/0149wbf.jpg


http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/archive/0148wbf.jpg


http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/archive/0152wbf.jpg


Fore hatch – Maurice Griffiths

http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/archive/0161wbf.jpg

http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/archive/0154wbf.jpg

[The Bigfella]

Great work Don. Duffy Dodge was my main inspiration too - modified with the ventilating idea taken from another WB source... that I can't recall.

[Don Kurylko]

Thanks Ian. I really like the way you did your hatch too! Very nice. :)

[RFNK]

All looking fantastic Don!!! Rick

[PeterSibley]

Great work Don. Duffy Dodge was my main inspiration too - modified with the ventilating idea taken from another WB source... that I can't recall.
The Bud MacIntosh articles ...excellent stuff ! :)

I just copied those photos to my file Don ,excellent work !:)

[Larks]

Don, those photos are gold mate!! Thanks for posting them, pretty much just what I want to do on my H28. Brilliant

[WX]

Beautiful work there Don...that is how my work always turns out in my imagination...unfortunately the reality is different.

[Don Kurylko]

Thanks guys! I appreciate the compliments. :):):)

[Larks]

Don, I've ben looking for some pic's of your yacht..is there a thread on her hear somewhere?

[Don Kurylko]

Larks, I don’t have any other photos of my boat posted anywhere at the moment. I’ve got some slides that I need to scan and will try and get that done sometime soon. Right now the push is on to get the boat finished and ready to move down to the coast for the final fitting out and launching this fall (I hope).

The boat shed is also very cramped and it’s difficult to get a decent shot, but we will be taking it down soon and I will be able to get some better pictures then. I’ll see what I can do in the meantime.

Thanks for your interest. :)
Don

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

This is a very simple hinged hatch I built a few years back for my Chris Craft cruiser... in the shop for a couple of fresh coats.

Spline mitred african mahogany frame, lock mitred teak hatch frame, crotch mahogany, bosse pommele, zebrawood marquetry.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/nanzep/100.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/nanzep/101.jpg

[Larks]

This is a very simple hinged hatch I built a few years back for my Chris Craft cruiser... in the shop for a couple of fresh coats.

Spline mitred african mahogany frame, lock mitred teak hatch frame, crotch mahogany, bosse pommele, zebrawood marquetry.



Peter, the only thing simple about that hatch is that it is simply stunning!!! :eek: Just wonderful Mate!!

[Jay Greer]

One feature we incorporated into both the fore hatches of "Seraffayn" and "Taliesen", Larry and Lynn Pardey's boats was to make a square ring of bronze angle strip that stands slightly proud of the wooden lip of the hatch openings. We silver soldered the joints. This slight protruding lip fits tight against a foam weather strip in the groove that goes around the underside of the hatch. Larry tells me that they never have leaked.
Jay

[floatingkiwi]

Wow

[Thorne]

Hatches on Eros, out of Richmond CA -

http://www.luckhardt.com/mmwbs09-25

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Now those hatches are a serious piece of work;)

[RodB]

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Susan%20const%203/skylightdiagonalpos-72.jpg

Heres the underside for viewing details.... all joints are double dowelled... all epoxied, some fasteners.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Susan%20const%203/skylightundersideheldup-72.jpg

...fitting the skylight to the combing...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Susan%20const%203/skylightdryfit-72.jpg

Closeup of the center joint...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Susan%20const%203/skylightjointcloseup-72.jpg

Heres the skylight in position...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Susan%20const%203/skylight-entrywaynice-72.jpg

[P.L.Lenihan]

Cool pictures Rod B, as always!! Hmmmm.....a non-opening skylight made to look like an opening skylight?Neat! Do you know if this hatch/skylight will open like a conventional hatch or be permanently closed?

Peter

[P.L.Lenihan]

[quote=Don Kurylko;2237637]



http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/archive/0149wbf.jpg



Absolutely beautiful Don!! Really like the little attention to details; like painting the inside of the rail scuppers.Brilliant!! Spiders hate bright spots :)

Really like this thread as I will soon be working on hatch-n-skylight stuff on my own project.Perfect timing!!


Cheers!


Peter

[hm0316]

http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv249/hm0316/SiteVisitHSM070109038.jpg


Awning fabric or leather over the hinges can help reduce leakage. HM0316

[chainyank]

Fore hatch – Maurice Griffiths

http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/archive/0161wbf.jpg

http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/archive/0154wbf.jpg

I just found this thread when going through my bookmarks tonight.

Where did you get that hinge hardware for the fore hatch, do they have a name? I really like them. I have yet to fasten my fore hatch, because I just hate the hinges I have for the job, I'd love a pair of these!Y>

[floatingkiwi]

http://im1.shutterfly.com/proctaserv/47a0ce37b3127ccefb35764740e400000037100AZtGbhu3cs2 QPbz4a My standing room spot where I am planning on doing most of the operations from.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/proctaserv/47a0ce37b3127ccefb354131812100000037100AZtGbhu3cs2 QPbz4a

http://im1.shutterfly.com/proctaserv/47a0ce37b3127ccefb3481e3a1df00000037100AZtGbhu3cs2 QPbz4a

Straight out of Buds book, How to Build a Wooden Boat, with nothing but a couple of Sam Mannings drawings, which are so well drawn, they are, in my opinion,as good as plan drawings for things like this.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/proctaserv/47a0ce37b3127ccefb34010fa17300000037100AZtGbhu3cs2 QPbz4a

http://im1.shutterfly.com/proctaserv/47a0ce37b3127ccefb35fa4cc19900000037100AZtGbhu3cs2 QPbz4a

[Don Kurylko]

I just found this thread when going through my bookmarks tonight.

Where did you get that hinge hardware for the fore hatch, do they have a name? I really like them. I have yet to fasten my fore hatch, because I just hate the hinges I have for the job, I'd love a pair of these!Y>

I bought them a long time ago from ABI. They are no longer in business, but I think there are other manufacturers still offering them, like Victory: http://www.rekord-marine.com/ Page 243 of their PDF Catalogue. Salty Dog might have them too. Or WEST MARINE?

[St.J]

Classic Marine (http://classicmarine.co.uk/prodtype.asp?prodtype=47&ph=cat) in the UK specialises in this sort of hardware.

[redbopeep]

One feature we incorporated into both the fore hatches of "Seraffayn" and "Taliesen", Larry and Lynn Pardey's boats was to make a square ring of bronze angle strip that stands slightly proud of the wooden lip of the hatch openings. We silver soldered the joints. This slight protruding lip fits tight against a foam weather strip in the groove that goes around the underside of the hatch. Larry tells me that they never have leaked.
Jay

This is the same construction we have on our three butterfly hatches. We haven't installed the foam strip in the groove in the underside of the hatch wings but it doesn't matter. We did also install awning canvas wrapped around the piano hinges like shown in this thread. These hatches do NOT leak even when being pummeled by seawater from the side. Quite impressive at 80 years old. No reason to make covers other than to protect the vanish.

[Phil Y]

The Maurice Griffith hatch does indeed keep water out. My dad has one on his 23' gaffer. No pics sorry.
Phil