Stephens Bros. of Stockton CA

[Partgypsy]

I am seriously considering purchasing a 66' Stephens Bros (NOT S&S) yacht c. 1966. It has a share of small repair issues, esp due to improper deck drainage and crane mounting, but the deal might make or break as a result of the condition of the decks.

They are the orginal teak over plywood and have been scrubbed, power-washed and otherwise abused to the point where the seams and screws stand proud and in a couple of small spots, she's down to plywood. I am trying to get a grip on a few things and appreciate any input.
1- how expensive would a new teak deck be? The boat is 66' x 18' with a large foredeck as shown in the pics and approx. 2' w side decks. the aft deck is in good shape. I'm guessing about 500 sq ft of teak.
2- is it advisable to reuse any of the teak that has over, say 3/8' thickness left? Perhaps turning these pieces over and setting the in thicker Sikaflex?
3- could the new deck be done in sections as time and money permit? The foredeck is split by the Portugese bridge and re-doing that would take care of the bulk of the soft plywood issues.
4- once soft spots are noticed, how much time before leaks will start to be apparent below decks.
5- is there a way to repair/replace sections of plywood from below the deck... assuming the area is accessible.

I know these are very hard questions to answer, but I'll take educated, non-educated and and wild-ass guesses. :)

For photos of the vessel go to this link:
http://s315.photobucket.com/albums/ll457/PartGypsy/Stephens/

[Jay Greer]

Stephens Bros. boats were built to top quality standards. Barry Stephens was a good friend of mine and so, I had a bit of an inside view as to the ethics of how the boats were built. Well built or not, there will come a time that lack of proper maintenance will catch up and bite an owner, who is lax in that dept, in the wallet.
What you are facing is both expensive as well as time consuming, if you do purchase the boat. That is if you wish to set things right in a manner that is fitting for a yacht of this quality. First of all, I know of no way that plywood can be repaired from the underside of the deck. The wood is soft as a result of fresh water intrusion. And, if it is soft enough to be deformed by hand pressure, it is in need of replacement. Teak, while expensive is not the main financial factor in such repairs, it is the labor involved. Often this kind of a job is simular to changing ones socks without the removal of ones shoes. Damn tricky!
Other woods can be substituted for teak if the material price is too astronomical. Alaskan yellow cedar is an excellent choice for such a job.
My best advice is to consult a marine surveyor and get some realistic bids from knowledgable builders in your area. This aint no simple project that can be performed by a group of well wishing friends over a few week ends. Sorry to sound blunt, but I have seen this kind of project many times before. And, I have also seen owners with stars in their eyes go down swinging with too little money to finish the job.
Jay

[Lew Barrett]

Hi Gordon. This is a good place to come for answers.

As you know from your prior experience, conditions tend to become cumulative with larger boats. A boat that has been left out with leaking decks or cabin tops will frequently have greater issues than just the decks themselves as water and issues pile up.

Jay is one of the best resources on this forum for straight up answers, so you might heed what he says. Big boats are always big money. Always. If not, they become total losses, which equals big money in the end. A 40 year old boat with condition issues requires a very serious commitment, and you are wise to be asking around about it.

[boattruck]

Gypsy, I have been called on to repair a number of these Stephens's over the years, another poster is correct that the cost of the Teak is inconsiquential compared to the structural deck repairs, many of these Stephens were built with moulded decks(no, or few, deck beams, multiple laminations of ply, built over a jig) if she has begun to loose her shape, the repair scenarios can be pretty complicated... in any situation, no real repairs are possible from inside, so plan on teak off, repair decks as needed, prep and epoxy/glass coat to stabilize, then you can check your wallet and decide if you will build a teak deck or paint and nonskid her... Good to plan for all of that from the outset, so you buy her realisticly, best of luck.

[Partgypsy]

Thanks for adding reinforcements for my go-slow approach. big boats don't sell fast and if this one gets away, there will be others. I already live on a 47' boat (built of the "other" buidling material) and have a 1964 Chris Seaskiff 25' Ranger that I'll be refinishing this fall, so I'm not short of things to do.
May I ask for a wild-wild-wild-ass guess for typical work?

1- How long would it take a reasonably competent $65/hr shipwright to replace a couple of 10' sections of plank?
My guess is four full days or about $2000. Am I anywhere near close?

2a- How long for said shipright to repair a 10 x 10 section of plywood, assuming I remove the teak and fittings, etc?
Let's give him a full week. $2600.

2b- same work on two sections of side deck. It will be a trickier fit with toe rails and deckhouse, etc. so let's say 3 full weeks and $7500

3- How much time to construct and install the wooden moldings around two 10" x 30" port lights and install the appropriate trim.
Two weeks? $5200.

I figure this could be about $20k total + materials.
If this is close, I can easily afford that. My set-aside for repairs is $40k.

Thanks in advance for your kindness.

[Partgypsy]

Update;
I think we found a good boat carpenter. He didn't hesitate to tell us that he suggests removing all the teak and replace plywood as needed. Toe rails have to come off all the way around. He suggests epoxy and Dynel cloth and then to Awlgrip the decks. He found two broken frames at the turn of the bilge below one of the deck problem areas. He said not to be surprised if he finds the same on the other side. He's looking at pulling the planking from the last 10 feet or so of topsides on both sides as there is localized rot in 2 or 3 places each side and the plank ends are also soft at the transom. He says that in the long-run, it's cheaper to replace large sections at one time than making return visits to keep chasing the rot.
He says the foredeck and bow is not as bad as I had thought and generally the boat is not as bad as he had expected. This, considering that when he visited the vessel a year ago, he noted many of these issues and thought the deterioration would have progressed more rapidly.
Once done, he will paint the hull (not Awlgrip).
He suggested that the chronic and slightly damp spots on the pilot house floor were from below in the engine room. There are blowers on each side that somehow were directing damp air up underneath the floor above. So... no leaks from the cabin top above. Why the forced air would be so damp is a mystery to be solved at another visit.
He's working up a bill of materials and time estimate and will have it some time this week. IF it's within the realm of affordability, we will likely go ahead and take the leap.
He was very matter-of-fact and didn't seem fazed by any of the issues that were freaking us out.
He says he might need the boat from Aug '09 through March '10. We will have to construct some sort of shelter.

Please tell me does any of this sound unreasonable or out of line with how an initial meeting w/ a boat carpenter might go?

BTW: We paid him for his 2 hours of time. We felt he was acting as a consultant with no guarantee of any business with us and we valued his time.

[pcford]

Sounds like ya got a good guy...all of what he says sounds reasonable to me.

[Partgypsy]

http://s315.photobucket.com/albums/ll457/PartGypsy/Stephens/?action=view&current=overview.jpgJust got the quote last night. $160k!!!!!!
That includes $50k for materials. Sounds like he intends to do a very comprehensive job. It's beyond my budget... Too bad. I really like that boat.
http://s315.photobucket.com/albums/ll457/PartGypsy/Stephens/?action=view&current=overview.jpg

[Lew Barrett]

I like your approach. Sensible and researched and yes.....there will always be another boat.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

That boat has been on the market for a while... figured there was a reason... now I know the reason. Once repaired, that boat is worth a fair chunk of change, but at that size, no repair would be cheap.

[Jay Greer]

Glad to see you didn't enter blindly into this. My experience has been that repairs often become much more involved as restoration work progresses.
Jay

[pcford]

Glad to see you didn't enter blindly into this. My experience has been that repairs often become much more involved as restoration work progresses.
Jay

Right, Jay. I'd say that with rot the problem is likely to be bigger about 95% of the time.

And.......nobody but a fool would give a bid on a rot repair.

[Dan Payne]

Being the owner of two Stephens Bros. yachts I could not resist giving my two cents. I respectfully disagree with Jays comments that Stephens Bros. always made a top quality product. They often did! But the Farallone Clippers (I own ex-Hoyden) and some of the power cruisers ( I also own the 1941 39' Sedan cruiser-the last Stephens delivered before WWII) through the years were under built with questionable elements of construction (jig saw puzzle type peices to form windshield and rail corners, for one example). If you'd like to talk off line I'd be happy to discuss my 15 years of experience owning these babys. Don't get me worng; I love my Stephens boats. But you got alot at stake on this one. (619) 507-6129.

[Lew Barrett]

Dan,
As a rule I would say that Stephens are no more heavily built than equally sized craft (yachts) from most other reputable builders. There is nothing particularly more stout about their builds than Chris Craft, Matthews, or other respected golden age builders. So in that respect i agree with you. As Stephens built in lesser numbers, they tended to be able to modify their stock boats for individual customer whims, and that makes each Stephens tend to be (or possible to be) a bit different. I think this is part of the appeal as well.



Here's some Stephen's hardware, which I find attractive. Of course, everyone had their own hardware, too. (photos lifted from another thread).


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/StephensHardware3.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/Stephenshardware1.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/StevensHardware2.jpg

[Partgypsy]

Right, Jay. I'd say that with rot the problem is likely to be bigger about 95% of the time.

And.......nobody but a fool would give a bid on a rot repair.

It was an estimate. Nobody but a fool would trust someone who didn't have enough experience to give an estimate.

[Partgypsy]

I know this is about wooden boats, but did they switch to aluminum hulls in the early '70's or did someone buy their designs?

[Jay Greer]

I honestly can't say as Barry Stephens passed on in the late seventies and I lost contact with the company after that.
Jay

[Dan Payne]

Lew, awesome shots of that custom hardware. never saw those pieces before, or that builder plate. Thanks

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

It was an estimate. Nobody but a fool would trust someone who didn't have enough experience to give an estimate.


Hmmm... I've known restorers/shipwrights who just about lost their shops based on bad estimates...too low, not too high:D;)

[Lew Barrett]

If a guy makes an estimate on a job like this rather than to do it on a time and materials basis, he'll want to be very clear about precisely what work is entailed, with an understanding that the owner will kick in if the work expands.

When you have a shipwright start in, you hold your breath because it's always possible for him to find further problems as the onion is peeled away. That's always the deal. Or, you can give him carte blanche up front with the understanding that he doesn't stop until the boat, or the area of the boat he's commissioned to do, is completed. That, essentially, is a time and materials quote, and it's not uncommon for most guys to want to work that way. But if an experienced guy is going to quote you bottom line on a big job, he's going to want to quote it high. It's the only way he can protect himself. If you think about it, it's one way to separate the wheat from the chaff, because only an inexperienced worker doesn't value every single hour fully.

[Partgypsy]

It seems to be an accepted fact that the extent of a job is to a certain degree an unknown. Experience would tell a shipwright to automatically build in a contingency factor; be it 50%, 75% ... whatever. Better than saying "I don't have a clue"
That would provide me with confidence that they have actually done this work before, paid attention to the hours a job really takes and can estimate the next one.
The ship carpenter I hired and paid to give me an estimate came in higher than I could afford. His price was based on a comprehensive restoration to "as original". Because he had been at his craft for a long time, he certainly built in a contingency. The result was that for the price of few hours of his time he showed me a lot and and he kept me out of getting in over my head... situation that neither of us would have liked.
So, I bought something a little less impractical. A running and floating 1965 24' Chris Craft Sea Skiff Ranger for $1200.

[Lew Barrett]

There you go! Have fun!

[Partgypsy]

I confess... she got to me.
Against wise advice and common sense, I did continue to pursue this particular boat. I figured... what's 2000 hours of labor? I get too much sleep as it is?
I have been back and forth with the owner and thought we had a deal.
Unfortunately, the deal is off. A serious misunderstanding. The seller was upset that I talked about her boat on the internet. She felt I was sabotaging her efforts to sell. A boat that has been for sale and neglected for two years sets her own price. I have a hunch that the owner just isn't ready to give her over to new owners. The shame is we had a verbal agreement and I had already put a lot of time, money and effort into this. The owner just would not sign back my offers. Now I am considered another scoundrel, just like all the other scoundrels who insult her boat by having offered her a fair price. It's a shame, cause the boat still has a chance. I hope she finds peace.

[Butterflute]

I just stumbled onto a fully restored Stephens in Sausalito's Pelican Harbor. and the fellow's selling it for less than half the price of the restoration. Even the inside of the chain closet is beautifully varnished. This is the best I've ever seen and I am the author of the Sausalito Wooden Boat Tour. If you want to know more, I can put you in touch. Just give a call 415.332.6608

[Lew Barrett]

The world these boats inhabit is small. Once problems are uncovered, everyone finds out sooner or later. Often enough, the first offer (if it's an honest effort) is the best offer. You did well by doing the research.

[Butterflute]

:rolleyes: That sounds pretty good, actually. The two owners on the Summertime (http://www.classicyacht.org/classifieds/detail.php?id=115), a 50ft.1966 Stephens Flush Deck Motor Yacht spent a total of $400,000. The asking price; $227,000 is very reasonable.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Are these the same folks who had the Stephens 47 (later the Hylas 47) built in glass in the far east?