Dory Planking - Upside Down or Rightside Up?

[Gary Davis]

Greetings from Montana,

I've decided to build Smith's 17' Marblehead gunning dory (Douglas-fir on white oak) as my first real boat. I've noticed contradictions on the proper/best aspect to plank the boat for the first-timer. One school of thought suggests it is easier for the first-timer to plank bottom-up because it facilitates planing and matching bevels on the planks. All riveting is completed at one time after the boat is turned over. The other suggestion is to plank rightside-up because its easier for the first-timer to rivet each plank as it is hung - which was suggested as the way to go for the uninitiated. The rightside-up position would seem easier to create rocker (with the limitations I have in my garage) and facilitate pre-plank fairing with battens. I assume you can fair the frames with battens in the upside-down position, but I've not seen/read examples of this technique.

If I decide to plank the dory rightside-up, can I expect difficulties related to up- or down- other than those suggested for plank beveling? I don't expect consensus, but I would really appreciate any experiences folks have had with these planking techniques.

I apologize if this topic is addressed somewhere in the archives.

Thanks - Gary Davis

[mmd]

If it is any help, I live in the self-appointed bellybutton of the Banks dory universe (Lunenburg, Shelburne, & Chester were big producers of dories for the Grand Banks schooner fleet at the turn of the last century, but I do understand that there were dories built elsewhere... <wink>) and all dory shops I have been in - probably around a dozen or so, some working, some museums, some derelict - built dories right-side-up. This allowed them to compress the dory bottom into the desired rocker by wedging a pole or three between the bottom that was resting on the building frame and a roof rafter in the shop.

Below is a photo of a dory being built at the Dory Shop in Lunenburg. Dory guru and former owner Kim Smith is nearest, in the blue jacket and cap, making sure things are done right. The garboard planks are hung and the starboard second plank is hung. Kim's son is at the workbench (back-on) cutting in the gains on the stbd second plank. Plank ends are trimmed to the transom after fastening.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d19/mmd_ns/DoryShop1.jpg

[James McMullen]

Of course there's all sorts of ways to build boats. . . .

When I build lapstrake, I clench nail the planks between frames with the boat upside down and only rivet through the frames after the boat is all planked up. Gravity is working towards your benefit more often this way.

If you want to a build a dory as traditionally as possible, you probably should build it rightside up, and just accept that what a pain in the ass it is to fasten the garboards and broads while squatting or bending over is a character-building peaen to authenticity. Or you could build it upside down over your molds as God and nature intended :D

Truthfully, there is no one way that is the only correct way. If you have a mentor to help you who prefers one way or the other, then you could do far worse than simply adopt the preferences of whomever is at hand to lend a hand.

[TerryLL]

I've built several dories and they were all put together upside down on a strongback. It's essential that the frames are set the right distance apart and at the correct height relative to each other. A rigid strongback will insure that the frames, stem, and transom are all properly positioned.

Once the frames are properly positioned and secured in place, it is a simple matter to fair the frames with a batten. The rocker will take care of itself if the frames, stem, and transom are all set at their proper heights. Cutting lap bevels when building upside down is not at all difficult.

Gravity, and the ability to push downward when bending on planks is a real plus when building upside down.

The photo posted by mmd is of a banks dory being built by a team of dory builders who have built thousands of the same hull. You are a first-time builder putting together a Swampscott-type dory. The shortcuts employed by seasoned builders can lead first-time builders into a world of difficulty.

[boatbear]

I concur with Terry. Building upside down on a strongback as per the Dory Book makes fairing the frames and fitting planks dead easy. I used epoxy however, and know nothing about riveting.

I assume that the old pros building right-side up would have plank patterns to make the whole procedure quick and foolproof.

[2MeterTroll]

well this is my experiance after doing both.
upside down you can put some push into setting a plank,
rightsideup lets you see the boat and adjust it as you work.

upside down you have to have all the molds there and the planks dont have any tendency to take the form the wood dictates.

rightsideup the wood will define the shape a little. this is much to the benefit of the boat as it is to the wood sometimes and at others....not so much.

[Gary Davis]

Thanks all for the advice. There is no mentor - its just me and you all.

Sounds like upside-down is the preferred technique for non-professionals - well, at least for God. How is the strongback constructed so that it is relatively easy to convert to support the boat once it is turned over? Or must you build a strongback and another means of support for the boat when it is rightside-up for finishing?

Gary

[mmd]

Just for clarity, and not trying to push any one method over another:

TerryLL: There is no team building the dory in the posted photo - just Kim's son, all by his lonesome. Everyone else in the photo is a mere onlooker. Mind you, the Dory Shop has been building dories for over a hundred years and have the process pretty much down pat, but even when in full production mode, only two men worked on building a dory. In the last twenty or thirty years, the Dory Shop has been essentially a one-man shop.

Boatbear: The Dory Shop has patterns for the tombstone transom, stem, and frames, but no patterns for planks. A board is selected for its appropriate sweep, served up to the erected bottom, molds, stem & stern and the stem line and bottom edge are pencilled on the plank. A batten is sprung between plank marks on the molds, transom, and stem to define the top of the plank and faired by eye. The plank is popped off, run through the bandsaw to cut to size, and re-hung to check the fit and mark the gains. The plank is removed to the workbench for edge-planing by hand to a fair line and to cut the gains. This is what Kim's son is doing in the background. Then the plank is hung & fastened in place.

With pre-cut frames, transom & stem only, all other materials being in planed mill-stock form, it takes Kim (or now his son) one 8-hour day to build a 13-ft Banks dory to ready-for-paint stage. All-up time for one 13-ft dory from a pile of lumber to painted and ready to go is, I recall, under 20 man-hours. Kim told me that he can build two dories a week and have time on Friday to kibbutz with passers-by. Now that is efficient boatbuilding!

[TerryLL]

Thanks Michael for that clarification.

[mmd]

Just as an aside, the Nova Scotia Museum, with assistance if the NS Dept. of Education, produced a film documentary of Sidney Mahaney building a Shelburne Dory. Sidney was around ninety years old at the time, and had started building dories at the John Williams Dory Shop in Shelburne NS (now the Dory Shop Museum) when he was seventeen. He didn't stop until he died at age ninety-five, though he slowed down quite a bit after he turned eighty. I don't know if copies of the documentary are available to the general public, but it is very educational if you can find one. I was able to get a copy through my wife who is a teacher, and I pull it out to re-watch quite often.


Sidney finishing off a Shelburne dory:

http://museum.gov.ns.ca/dory/dorymaker.jpg

[boatbear]

Thanks Michael for the background. Those guys must be a blast to watch - two a week! I could probably do a couple per decade. I googled Sidney Mahaney and it is claimed that he built 10,000 dories!

Gary, when the boat is turned over it will happily sit on a couple of saw-horses. You can brace bits of it to the floor or roof to keep everything in shape.

[James McMullen]

The Banks Dory: the original instant boat. Simplified design, quick to build, cheap enough to be semi-disposable, able to be stacked like dixie cups on the deck of a fishing schooner. . .

(. . . .not really that much fun to row. . . .)

Now a Swampscott dory is a completely different kettle of fish--though you're probably not going to be able to build two a week.

[Clinton B Chase]

Gary, You really need a copy of Gardner's Dory book. In it is everything you need to know. In a nutshell, Bank Dories were usually planked upright; Swampscott's planked upside-down over a strongback made of a couple of sawhorses and the strongback itself: a 2x8 or 2x 10 with the curved cut into to form the rocker. You set up the frames and stem/transom on the bottom, flip over and use shores from above (or temporary screws if you were using a glued method) to hold the rocker in shape. The rest is fairing up the frames, and planking from there. It really is the most elegant way to build a boat.

The Dory Book is wonderful and the illustrations by Manning say a million words.

Clint

[ishmael]

There are arguments either side, but my choice is upside down. I think it makes it easier to see the plank lap, but it's about equal on the fasteners. It's harder to clench nail a lap when the hull is upside down. But you aren't building that way.

May the Force be with you.

[Daniel Noyes]

First
Ill second Clint, get or borrow from your Librbry the Dory Book by Gardner.

I have worked at two dory shops both close to 200+ yrs. old
Pert Lowell co. of Newbury Ma. builds a very high quality performance sailing dory designed about 1940 called the Town Class, these boats are similar to a Swampscott though more complex, real sailing machines. These boats are built upside down on a heavy chest high strongback.
Lowells boat shop wher I have also worked has been building dories on the same spot since the 1790's, Lowells was famous for their high quality Banks dories and production skiffs, in 1900 they were building 2000 dorys and skiffs a year, they build right side up and supposedly have since the1700s

I built a Beachcomber-Alpha sailing dory last year, right side up. If you are rivetting I would build rightside up and rivet the planks as you go.
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3170/3098800687_306cd453ef_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dansdories/3098800687/in/set-72157609175635684/)

[Gary Davis]

Thanks all. I have three of Gardner's books. I looked at his strongback in The Dory Book last night, and it seems to be the way to go. Now, I just need to reconcile the advice not to try to rivet upside-down.

James suggests he clench-nails the lap between the frames upside-down, and rivets the laps to the frames after turning the boat over. Could I do something similar with rivets - rivet a few in the laps to try to hold things together while upside-down and finish the rivetting when rightside-up? If so, is a process/system that works better than others? Or . . . ?

Thanks for the help.

Gary

[TerryLL]

I built a small round-bottom skiff upside down on a strongback and clench-nailed the laps as I went, leaving spaces for the rivets that went through the frames once the hull was turned. Clench-nailing upside down is so much easier than riveting upside down.

For a hull that is entirely riveted, I've thought maybe small bolts with washers and nuts could be used to temporarily fasten the laps until the hull is turned for riveting. I've never actually tried this, just idle speculation. I'm sure someone will be by shortly to tell me my head is way up my tuckus.

[Daniel Noyes]

For a hull that is entirely riveted, I've thought maybe small bolts with washers and nuts could be used to temporarily fasten the laps until the hull is turned for riveting. I've never actually tried this, just idle speculation. I'm sure someone will be by shortly to tell me my head is way up my tuckus.

At PLC the townie laps are fastened while the boat is upside down with bronze machine screws! these are an up grade from rivets which were a replacement of clench nails. After the boat is turned right side up the threaded ends are cut at the nut and the cut end is peened over like a rivet. If you consider the price of bronze bolts and nuts you can see this is a kind of pricey way of securing the laps, though highly effective.
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[James McMullen]

Clench nailing is way faster and is easy to do once you get the technique down. Riveting is stronger, heavier, and takes more steps. I follow Pete Culler's advice: nail where you can, rivet or screw where you must.