Tools for boatbuilding

[Brian Granger]

Hello all,

I have spent the last year reading about building wooden boats and I am beginning to get some tools for boatbuilding. I have a table saw (a gift) and a basic inventory of hand tools (saws, chisels, planes, etc.). I am wondering what other power tools I should be thinking about. I would like to build a lapstrake plywood boat - probably an Ian Oughtred design.

My old drill just died so I will probably begin there. But after that I am wondering if I can get by with a good jigsaw or if I really will need a bandsaw. We are renting our house right now, so I would like to avoid accumlating lots of hard to move tools. I can get a cheap 9" bandsaw for the price of a decent jigsaw. What is the better option to get started with for building plywood boats on a tight budget? Any other important power tools?

Thanks in advance!

Brian

[jimendel]

One tool I used to build my skiff was a Ryobi 4" angle grinder with a zirconia flap disc. This baby can really move some wood- you can sculpt with it. I don't think it's a tool that's normally used in boat building, though.

[Paul Girouard]

I've never built a boat , but many other things , I'd get a good , Bosch is the best IMO ' jig saw over a cheap band saw . Hell you can " chase a line" with a skilsaw if it fair , not to steep, if you have the balls to do it. Some of which will mean forcing it to happen. I never said that nor I'm I responsible if you try it , BTW.
If your renting now / you'll buy later/ ( house ) buy good /best tools you'll never be sorry , better means longer lasting and easier to get the best results you can bring , Now not that best tools make you a better wood worker but I like every advantage I can get smile.gif

When you "buy a house " those tools will be there "ready up" to go to work, on your place or boat. All win / win.

Ask the WBF before you buy , some one will have a "better place " MTL to save $ . Ask for like and kind , don't be wishiy washie , or if you are say so , you'll get plenty of IMHO to choose from ;) Try to be speific to tool use and end need . Paul

[Wild Dingo]

Well... ahem

Now what you gotta not do is procrastinate starting to build usin the not havin the right tools excuse as the reason

You will get almightily stuck! sorta like goin nuts with plan buying... damned nuisance... dont ask me how I know I just do is all :rolleyes:

So what do you need? the jigsaw is a definant although others have gotten away without one... a thicknesser is handy a little 12 1/2in will do fine to start with but again others have gotten away without one... a bandsaw? maybe one of the most used tools in a well setup shed but not totally necessary you have the table saw make some jigs plenty of good books out there on jig building and theres always the WBF to help out... a good circular saw is handy as! Ive had one for many years and mate I tell you this things a bloody lifesaver... a routers handy as buggary really useful critters routers but again many people have gotten away without one

So wheres that leave you?
Okay jigsaw
jigs
thicknesser
circular saw
router

On the hand tools side drawknife scrapers spokeshaves and mallets

You will want to buy the best you can afford dont scrimp on your tools mate or you will regret it... routers are the worst I reckon get the bloody best!... many things like the mallets and scrapers you can make yourself so dont waste your money on such

oh you will also need MANY MANY MANY clamps these can be made without too many hassles but you will definantly need them

Cheers and good luck! :cool:

[Garrett Lowell]

"I can get a cheap 9" bandsaw for the price of a decent jigsaw. What is the better option to get started with for building plywood boats on a tight budget?"

Brian, it's my personal experience that a Bosch jigsaw beats out the best cheap 9" bandsaw only by a factor of one million. You can actually save, at a minimum, $100.00 just by purchasing the Bosch jigsaw for $159.00 right off the bat!

Or you could do it this way: pay $99.00 for a cheap 9" bandsaw. This will actually turn out to be such a piece of junk that you'll: a) waste valuable time setting it up; b) ruin a beautiful piece of instrument-quality quilted maple after the blade runs off the wheels numerous times; c) barely escape with your right thumb during and because of (step b); d) severely hurt your toe while kicking the stupid bandsaw in anger, frustration, and disgust; e) drag the bandsaw behind your jeep until nothing is left but a satisfying collection of sparks and chips; f)go out and pay $159.00 for a Bosch barrel-bodied jigsaw, which is a joy to use, makes beautiful cuts, requires absurdly little setup time, is easily portable, and will last a mighty long time.

I sincerely recommend jumping straight to step f).

[Graham Knight]

I'm building an Oughtred lapstrake skiff at the moment. The most useful power tool I've found has been my DeWalt 331K jigsaw, which I bought to replace my old Bosch one which died on the last job, the new one is a much better tool but then the other one was about 5 years old.
The jigsaw makes cutting the planks really easy, due to their length this would be difficult to do on a bandsaw.
Other power tools I've found really useful have been the table saw of course and a planer/thicknesser, these enable me to prepare my own timber as and when I need it, saving quite a bit of money by not having it prepared by the timberyard, and also allowing me to make use of reclaimed timber when available.
The router table is very useful but not essential, drill press, bandsaw, power plane, random orbit sander, are all great but I could do without them if I had to.
If I could only have one, assuming I already had the table saw, it would have to be the jigsaw I think. Although having said that I did a good job cutting planks with a pullsaw before I replaced the old jigsaw, for 1/4" ply it works really well but does take longer and requires more effort!
If you don't have one already get a good honing stone for sharpening your hand tools, hand planes and chisels can do the same jobs as many of the power tools with surprisingly little effort, if you keep them sharp!
And I'll second the comment about clamps, get a LOT, then get some more! The homemade plywood clamps that Iain shows in his book (get the book!) are great, as good for clamping the planks up as anything you can buy.

[Tom W.]

A jigsaw is very useful, admittedly. I find I use a bandsaw a lot more, though, especially for ripping planks to a line. It is, IMHO, superior to using a jigsaw, it is easier to cut the line.
I usually rough cut a plank with a circular saw set no deeper than necessary to cut through the piece, which allows the saw to follow a curved line. Then after making a more accurate line, I use the bandsaw. Then I finish it off with a hand plane.
A bandsaw can be acquired pretty cheap, check out tool sales, find a brand you like and look for it on ebay, they're pretty simple machines and if the manufacturer is still in business you can get new parts for it if needed.
Grizzly tools makes pretty inexpensive band saws which are reputedly pretty good, as is Jet's bandsaw.
I agree that a thickness planer is extremely useful, I bought one a couple of years ago, a 12" Delta, about $250, it can't handle wide maple boards well but boat stuff it works very well with. It opens up a huge supply of material to you that was not available before, as you can mill it to your needs.

[John Hastie]

Just a few words...

Forget a 9" bandsaw. I have a biiger one and it is still not very good for resawing (if that is your intent). You almost need to go to a 14' bandsaw. Consider a good handheld power scroll saw.

Let's say your laminating framing for a transom.

Lifting the transom to a bandsaw or jigsaw might be hard. Putting it on sawhorses and cutting it with a scroll saw is much easier.

Learn to use those hand tools properly and you will not only build a boat but also the enjoyment of tools. Surprisingly, good hand tools are often faster than setting up power tools for an application.

Good luck.

[Graham Knight]

One other reason the jigsaw is superior to the bandsaw in this instance is that Iain's designs tend to be a bit tight on timber. To get all the planks out of the plywood you can't really afford to rough cut then saw and plane to finish, the jigsaw can easily cut to within a millimetre or less of the line, leaving little if any finishing work to do.
I know if I'd tried to cut the planks any other way I'd almost certainly have needed another sheet of marine ply, more cost, more scarfing, more work...
It's a lot easier to take a jigsaw to a 16' x 4' sheet of ply, than it is to take the ply to the bandsaw and feed it through trying to follow the line, and don't forget you'll be cutting your planks in pairs so that means feeding two sheets through at a time. No doubt it can be done, but given the choice I certainly wouldn't want to do it!

[Garth Jones]

I'm building a Ness Yawl (Oughtred design) and I hav the luxury of having a pretty complete shop (I design and build furniture professionally and have room for the boat in the shop). You already have a table saw, and that's great. Here's what I've used the most for my boat:

Thickness planer - most of the parts are not 3/4" thick, so buying milled lumber isn't the solution, unless you pay somebody to mill it.

Jig saw - as has been said before, taking the saw to the planks is easier than taking the planks to the bandsaw (without extensive infeed and outfeed support). I've got a decent DeWalt saw (around $100) and it's fine.

Band saw - For every other curved part, the bandsaw is far better than the jig saw. Cuts are cleaner and I can follow a line much more accurately. I've got a Jet 14" saw - I keep thinking about upgrading, but it's a great little machine. I would stay away from the 9" cheap 'hobby' saws.

Power Planer - the $159 I spent for my Bosch power planer was some of the best boatbuiding money spent so far. Planing lands, shaping spars, etc. etc. It takes hours and hours out of the project.

Fein Multimaster with sanding profiles - for sanding epoxy fillets and other details, this can't be beat (or if it can, please somebody tell me!).

Clamps - lots and lots and lots of clamps. C-clamps, spring clamps, bar clamps, whatever.

Hand tools:

Low angle block plane - Stanley makes one that is acceptable - bevels, round overs, shaping, etc. an essential tool.

Spokeshave - also extremely useful. You should be able to find an old Stanley in good shape for around $20.

Chisels - a good set of chisels really helps, along with a mallet (shop-made, if you don't want to spend money).

If you're already good at sharpening, that's great. If not, spend some time to get your tools really, really sharp - they will do what you want and be much more pleasant to use.

Well, that's the list that comes to mind off the top of my head.

Happy boatbuilding,
Garth

[Alan D. Hyde]

Just a somewhat-related thought.

IF your wife's not with you, you can walk thru a garage sale in a couple of minutes, scanning for tools. Then, ask the seller if there are any old tools (not yet set out) that they need to get rid of.

Buying second-hand can mean better tools for far less money.

Alan

[Mrleft8]

I used a jigsaw to get out the planking on my Cat'spaw. I have the DeWALT barrel grip saw. I love it. But....... If I were going to get a saw that really needed to double as a portable bandsaw as well as a jigsaw, I'd get the Festool jigsaw with the roller bearing blade guides. Man is that little saw amazing!

[Graham Knight]

Over the past couple of years I've bought a lot of used hand tools on eBay at a fraction of the price of new ones, and usually better quality too.
For years I've used many of the hand tools I was given when I was an apprentice nearly 30 years ago (god that's scary!), they were OK but I've always wanted better, and when I got into boatbuilding I decided it was time to upgrade. But new stuff can be expensive and in many cases old tools are better, I now have a complete set of planes ranging from small block planes and rabbet planes, up to a Stanley Bailey No5, all for about what the No5 would have cost me new! Most needed a good sharpen and a bit of a cleanup but they are all really good tools.
I don't think I'd buy used power tools from there though, or anywhere that I wasn't able to test them first or return them.

[Garth Jones]

Graham,

How true! Most of my hand tools are much older than I am. Ebay, used tool places in Maine, etc. The best plane (for the money) I've got is a WWII era Stanley #4. It was a rusted wreck that cost $5 and now it makes silky smooth shavings.

Also, I've got a couple of really nice Sargent planes (Stanley equivilent #3 and #5). Must less expensive because collectors don't seem to want them as much, but they are heavy, solid tools.

That being said, I do love my Lie-Nielson low angle block plane....

Cheers,
Garth

[Graham Knight]

I do love my Lie-Nielson low angle block plane.... Yes I think I'd love one of those too! I've been looking at the new Veritas planes having bought two of their spokeshaves recently, nice tools and not quite as expensive as L-N.

[Keith Wilson]

If it's a choice of one or the other, get the jigsaw; it's more versatile. A decent bandsaw is very nice, but you can get by with just the jigsaw; I did for the first four boats.

I've also been buying hand planes on eBay recently. You can get very nice old tools for not much money if you are looking for a common type that a collector doesn't want. The common types are the most useful anyway; there's a very good reason Stanley sold a lot more #4 planes than #2s.

[ 12-02-2005, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[guillemot]

I cut all the solid wood planking for my dory with a $30 jigsaw by skill and then cleaned them up and beveled with a stanly low angle block plane (by far the most useful tool I have aquired for boatbuilding) and a record spokeshave.

A used handsaw can be found at most junk shops or garage sales for $5 or so, and with a quick professional re-sharpening (another $3-5) will be better than anything you can get new. Diston is a good brand. The ones with the handle held on with five screws (as apposed to 4)were the fancier model, I believe. Low # of teeth/inch is for rip cuts, higher teeth/inch is for crosscuts.

A Japanese style pull-saw (that cuts on the pull stroke) is also very useful that allows you to make very precice cuts. The one that home depot sells is absolute junk. Woodcraft sells a few nice ones that aren't too expensive. Some have a stiffening spine for cutting fine joints like dovetails, but the most versitle ones are the Ryoba saws that have cutting teeth on two edges. One side is for crosscutting and the other is for ripping.

A dustmask is essential for working in confined spaces. Sawdust can be very bad for your lungs.

Jeff

[Bob Smalser]

If you want works of art, buy L/N or L/V edge tools. Great, high-end gifts.

If you want tools every bit as functional but would rather put your dough in a boat, then buy prewar Stanley and others. Most only need cleaning and sharpening. If they need more, that's not difficult either except brazing cracks...look here:

http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl#smalser

I can put together most of an entire set of hand tools for the price of one L/N plane....and modern cast chisels and other cutting edges don't come as near to that perfect compromise between ease of sharpening and edgeholding as those old, prewar, drop-forged, flea market cheapos.

[ 12-02-2005, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Graham Knight]

I agree Bob, nice though the Lie-Nielsen stuff is I just can't justify the cost. A good old (50+) Stanley, maybe fitted with a new blade, does a very good job. There are some really good replacement blades around that transform the performance of a good basic plane for a fraction of the cost of a really fancy one.

[Bob Smalser]

Here's what I wrote about chisels for FWW than didn't get published:


Should I buy older, used chisels?

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5090019/64842844.jpg

Depends. For newcomers it can be problematic, as you need good tools to use now but have not yet acquired the skills needed to rehabilitate abused antiques into something useful:

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3302197/62367827.jpg

If you already have good grinding and honing skills and can also make handles, then flea markets and local and on-line tool auctions are an inexhaustible source of top-quality, high-carbon tools; often at prices less than you’d pay for the equivalent quantity of raw tool steel. Of course, you are trading your labor and rehabilitation skills for the money you save – and the labor can be considerable. I’ve done a bit of this at various auctions for myself and for tradesmen friends who don’t use computers, and I’ll share what I’ve learned.

As long as the chisel is old, factory-made, and intact with good length remaining, I’m not too concerned about condition short of severe pitting. For me, blade backs are easily ground on the belt sander to flatten and remove pits, sockets can be repaired, steel can be polished and blued to hide rust staining, and handles are easily made on the lathe. Anything marked "Stanley", "Witherby", "Winchester", “James Swan”, "Chas Buck" or "L&IJ White" is generally going to a collector for too high a price unless they are part of large, handleless lots. Older (not newer) Greenlee and Buck Bros, New Haven Edge Tool, Ohio Tool, Crossman, DR Barton, Underhill, Union Hardware, Jennings, Sargent, GI Mix, Shapleigh Hardware, Eric Anton Berg, Dickerson, Gillespie, Dixon, PS&W or PEXTO, Robt Duke, Fulton, Merrill, Butcher, Stiletto, Hibbard OVB, Simmons Keen Kutter, Lakeside and several other old makers and hardware store brands are every bit as good as the collector prizes and are much less expensive. Most unmarked chisels of that era were usually made by one of the above makers for a hardware distributor and are also generally excellent.

The only really poor socket chisels I've observed are newer Craftsman (older socket Craftsman were often made by Greenlee) of shiny, chrome-vanadium steel, some "Eclipse" brand and the occasional Stanley Defiance that refuse to take an excellent edge. Also, used tool dealers rarely know their wares well, and you have to look at each and every listing in detail to find what you need.

And see if somebody local is available to coach you on basic sharpening. In an hour I can teach most teenagers to sharpen sans expensive gizmos with the best of them.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3302197/68779484.jpg

[ 12-02-2005, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[willmarsh3]

One of these
http://home.att.net/~willmarsh3/el/web_3045.jpg

This is a japanese handsaw - the cutting is when you pull it as opposed to a conventional hand saw. It cuts quickly. Frankly, its more convenient than a power saw - and a lot more versatile.

Also one of these - should go without saying.
http://home.att.net/~willmarsh3/el/web_5884.jpg

Good luck with yoour boat construction - and we want to see pictures, of course.
Will.

[ssor]

Everyone is spot on with their advise but one thing not mentioned was a good shop vac. Mama's not gonna be happy if you can't clean up after yourself.

[Brian Granger]

Fanatastic

I am on the west coast, so I woke up and had over 20 great replies about my tool question. It sounds like a jig saw is a great place to begin. I have been looking at diffferent models of drills and jigsaws on amazon. They have free shipping and great prices. Any experience or comments on the following models?

Drill - Milwaukee 3/8 VSR 0233-20 for $90

Jigsaws

Milwaukee 6266-22 for $133

Bosch 1591EVSK barrel handle for $150
1590EVSK top handle for $158
1587AVSP top handle for $129
1584AVSK top handle for $139

Someone mentioned that the barrel handle is great. Why is that?

[gary porter]

Brian, all of the above advice is good but here is another approach you might consider. You have already started with some basic tools and adding the likes of a good Sabre saw will be enough to get you started. Of course your going to need more and your in an area where it shouldn't be hard to find whatever you need. So, get your plans, set up your work area, some saw horses and the like, and start building. See what it is you need to do and if you don't have the tool ,,,go get it. Now that will be fun. In short order you'll have collected what you need and not too much else.
Get at it and have fun.
Gary

[Brian Palmer]

I'll second what someone said about buying used power tools off E-Bay. I did it once (a Porter Cable RO sander) and not again. By the time I paid for shipping and a new pad, I could have got a new one with less hassle. This was even advertised as "like new." Caveat emptor.

-- Brian

[Graham Knight]

Brian I'm not familiar with any of the jigsaws you mention so I can't comment on them, but I can tell you the reasons I settled on my DeWalt. It has an equivalent spec or better compared to all the others I could find in a similar price range, it's a really good solid tool, it has the best quick blade change system I've ever seen on a jigsaw, and the clincher was that I found it at an exceptionally good price from a dealer on eBay (this was a brand new saw BTW).
There seem to be a lot of dealers doing very good prices on DeWalt, they are a popular brand that they can sell easily, I got a fantastic deal on my DeWalt thicknesser earlier this year too.

[ 12-02-2005, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Graham Knight ]

[dmede]

There are "factory recondotioned" resellers out there. I have a Makita cordless drill and a Bosch corded drill, both reconditioned, both in great shape. I paid around 30% less for each.

I'd second the recomendtions to just get building, don't wait until you have all the tools you might need. After building two lapstreak canoes I have found that I use very few power tools other than the jig saw and drill. My japanese pull saw more or less replaces my miter saw that now just sits under my bench. A band saw is on its way but Ive done without it by finding local lumber yards that will resaw for me after purchasing wood there.

My Delta planer (used for $100) has been great as well.

Cheap Stanley block plane gets the most use. My LV spokeshave was a gift to myself, not too expensive but very well made.

The shop vac is a great recomendation, I'd be up to my arm pits in sawdust without it.

[Bob Smalser]

Ask your local homebuilders where they buy their tools, and you'll probably find a hole-in-the-wall shop hidden in some industrial park that has lots of factory-reconditioned power tools and other items at jobber prices.

Same warranty on the recons as new, and I've had great results with them.

I like the Bosch barrel-handled saber saw best of all the ones I've tried for its low CG.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4775424/60398412.jpg

But it ain't a bandsaw, so you might save up for a basic standup 14-incher. I had a benchtop 9-incher once, and now my kids have it as that's who it was designed for.

[Kevin L.]

I actually found the 9" bandsaw very useful and an incredible bargain, for what it is, when I built my boat. I had a very limited budget, and built my 14' glued lap boat in a rented one-car garage. I purchased my bandsaw for $89 new, and used it for cutting out the molds (both halves at once to ensure symmetry). A jigsaw blade might wander and not give you a cut square to the face of the boards, but the little bandsaw was great. I also used it to rip all of my lumber (4/4) to the required size for pieces such as the keel, stringers, sheer clamps, rub rails, etc. It was also useful for the many curved and beveled pieces such as thwart knees, quarter knees and breasthook. Finally, I used it to re-saw 3.5 - 4" veneers of Douglas-fir for the fore and aft decking over the buoyancy compartments on my boat to cover the plywood and maintain a similar appearance to the thwarts and benches. This took FOREVER to feed the lumber through (in 2' lengths), and the saw continually bogged down, but it did work. I cleaned up all rip cuts and re-sawing with handplanes/scrapers. The saw needs to be continually tuned for tracking and adjusting the blade guides, which wear down rather fast, but for the money it is tough to beat in my opinion. I am still using it until I can afford a larger one. That said, I would try to get the planks out with either a circular saw or a jigsaw, and fair them with a handplane. Just a different perspective on the 9" bandaw...

[Rick Tyler]

This is a great list of suggestions. I have a DeWalt jigsaw -- it has been entirely satisfactory.

Most of my portable power tools were "factory reconditioned" and I have been happy with all of them. It's a good way to save 20 or 25% and still get a factory warranty. I bought mine from Tool Crib of the North, which has since been bought by Amazon. You can find the reconditioned tools on Amazon.com, click on the "Tools and hardware" store on the left, and then type "reconditioned" in the search box. They have at least two Bosch and one Dewalt jigsaw listed this morning.

[DurkJan]

OK,

I've build a Oughtred Fulmar. With very little tools....
The only electric tools I have are the cordless drill/screwdriver, a jigsaw and a very cheap chinese/taiwanese powerplaner. Besides these tools I use different handsaws, planes, rasp and chisels.

Before I started boatbuilding, I did not have the powerplane, and most of the hand tools were bought during the boatbuilidng process.

So, circular saws, table saws etc. are very interesting and I like them a lot (like every man ;) , I alwas search for them on internet shops!), but not necessary! As for my situation: I build my boat in a normal (Dutch) garage (we don't drive 4 wheel drives over here ;) )and with 1 fulmar, 3 bikes and a workbench, the garage is full!

Oh, but there is one tool you can't have enough: Clamps!

Durk-Jan

[ 12-02-2005, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: DurkJan ]

[Alan Peck]

I guess I am in the minority here. But, I have gotten a tremendous amount of use out of my Ryobi 9" bandsaw. Yes, it is worthless for resawing and such. But, it has been extremely helpful in cutting out stems, frames, knees, mooring bits etc. all of those things would be a lot harder with a jigsaw.

On the other hand, I certainly agree with buying the best tools you can and a 14" bandsaw is definitely better. But if cash is tight, I wouldn't underestimate the usefulness of a 9" saw. I have not had a single problem with mine.

[bainbridgeisland]

Jigsaw - ripping planks - what are you guys talking about here? Though a useful tool, it is not needed for ripping planks. A circular saw is faster and more accurate. They cut the gentle arc of a plank without any problems. I have always used them for planking 3/8" to 2-1/8" thick. Used the band saw for planks over 2-1/8". I prefer a handsaw though for 1/8" to 3/8" okoume planking. Just cut at a low angle (handle low, near plywood) for a smoother edge than a jigsaw (generally faster cutting too).

[wyndham]

Theres no such things as cheap tools. The cheaper the tools the more money you will spend on the project. Tools are an investment.
Forget a small abndsaw. Buy a good skilsaw and a good jig saw. With those two tools and a decent compliment of hand tools, search through the search thing and read all of Smalsers threads on conditioning and reconditioning them.
Build a nice boat.

[Bob Cleek]

Not much to offer beyond the wisdom above. Just remember a few maxims. Older is usually better, but beware of unnecessarily competing with the old tool collectors out there. You get what you pay for. Buy the best tool you can possibly afford when you need it. If you buy tools because you MIGHT need them, you'll end up with a tool collection, not a workshop. Remember, most old time wood butchers built just about anything with a set of hand tools they could carry in a tool box slung over their shoulder!

I would definitely go for the Bosch jig saws. I would stay away from anything but the best rated brands of powered hand tools. There is a huge amount of junk out there, particularly in the "big box" stores. (Although occasionally they will have a good "loss leader.") While they have their uses, I would also stay away from battery driven units. They tend not to last and often lack power given their relative cost to a corded model.

If you get a jig saw, buy one of those aftermarket rounded foot plates which will allow you to cut rolling bevels without messing with the flat stock footplate. This item was reviewed in WoodenBoat about a year and a half ago and I got one. I've been really happy with it. The stock foot still hasn't gone back on my Bosch!

Power hand tools are not "brand specific." While folks have their preferences, it's my opinion that Bosch makes the best jig saws, while Milwaukee makes the best Sawzalls and drill motors. If you are getting a drill motor, by all means get the Milwaukee half inch chuck model, NOT the 3/8". You'll be glad you did. Also, be sure the drill motor is reversible. You will use it to drive screws and the reverse will permit using the motor to take them out as well.

For any boat work, the most useful, cost effective, and EXPENSIVE power tool will be a thickness planer. I am not a fan of the little "lunchbox" 12" numbers, but some swear by them. Search around for a used 14" or 16" thickness planer, such as a Delta-Rockwell or a Parks. As someone above has said, nothing on a boat is going to be sized in standard dimensions. A good thickness planer will permit you complete flexibility when milling wood and will allow you to buy rough sawn wood at significantly lower prices than finished lumber. A thickness planer also helps you to "see" wood differently, thereby increasing your creativity. You can look at a piece of wood and see what you need inside of it, rather than being constrained by the construction industry's "2X4 mentality."

As for buying tools generally, keep in mind that what you see contractors using on the job may not be the best tool for your purposes. These days, I see a lot of contractors using Dewalt tools. They are serviceable and relatively inexpensive. Contractors like them because they (and particularly their employees) are hard on tools. For them, the balance between utility, quality and cost will be different than you. You want your tool to last a long time and it isn't going to be living in the back of a pickup truck!

Also, there is a lot of advertising these days pushing power tools. Most of it is bunk. For every electric or air driven power tool, there is a hand tool that was originally designed to do the same job. In many instances, the power tool does the job no better, but only faster and easier. This makes a powered tool attractive to commercial users whose time is money. Electric tools are made for repeated production use. Keep this in mind when making tool selections. Your woodworking time isn't as valuable as the pro's is. For example, you can spend several hundred bucks on a good jointer, not to mention the vacuum system you'd probably want for it, but how often do you really need to joint a straight edge? I have a fair jointer, but I find myself more often reaching for my Stanley jointer plane. It is always ready to go, while I have set up time and a bigger mess to clean up with the planer. And the hand plane is much more fun to use! Don't get "Norm-itis" and think that to do good work you have to have a full house of power tools that machine wood to the tolerances of a gnat's ass. They are fine for the production shop, but for one off work, particularly boats where nothing is straight or flat, the set up time on a power tool is often not worth the trouble.

One other tool that hasn't been mentioned is a decent air compressor. You might not think so, but it has a million uses. Mine gets used more often than not for blowing dust off surfaces to be painted, or just sweeping the shop floor. It also pumps up car tires and drives my paint spraying equipment. An air driven die grinder or sander will be a lot less expensive, and last longer, than an electric one, and will likely be lighter and easier to use. Then too, if you are "Norm-al" and just HAVE to buy a collection of Senco nail and tack guns because you haven't learned how to use a hammer, you'll be ready to go! You can find a lot of uses for a compressor.

[RodB]

A bit late here, but if cutting ply and many times cutting along a line freehand...you cannot beat a Makita Hyphoid or the Dewalt Framing circular saws. Of course the standard wormdrive saws like the Skil and Bosch are fine, the two mentioned above just handle way better.

I own the Makita and used it to cut the scarfed panels for my 18 foot skiff....its a nice tool. Wormdrive/hyphoid saws offer a gyro effect because the blade is spinning in one plane, and the motor in another. This gyro effect allows for great control when cutting along a line, which is quite important in dealing with ply many times.

Standard circular saws (sidewinders) can self steer with a carbide blade and mess up your cut...plus the Hyphoid/wormdrive's have the left blade so you can see the blade very easily when cutting.

You will also need a good straight edge for many cuts and the Eurekazone smartguide is hard to beat for this purpose. This guide system offers lots of versatility besides just acting as a straight edge to cut along... but requires a right blade standard circular saw...
www.eurekazone.com (http://www.eurekazone.com)

Corded drill, 1/2" Milwaukee cannot be beat.
Jigsaw.... The just out...Bosh 1591 (barrel grip), or 1590 or the Festool which is probably the best.

I also use the Makita Sander/polisher with an 8" sanding disk for contour sanding radius's and fairly rapid leveling of surfaces.

Good Luck.

RB

[ 12-02-2005, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[bischoffboatworks]

Favourite power tools:

1/2" Milwaukee drill motor

14" bandsaw with raiser block to get taller wood thru it with longer blades. I use it to mill 8/4 x 8' plank stock, as well as shaping planks (you can cut a running bevel by using 2 people, thus saving lots of time on the planking bench). And you can hook it into a dust control system.

[bischoffboatworks]

Favourite power tools:

1/2" Milwaukee drill motor

14" bandsaw with raiser block to get taller wood thru it with longer blades. I use it to mill 8/4 x 8' plank stock, as well as shaping planks (you can cut a running bevel by using 2 people, thus saving lots of time on the planking bench). And you can hook it into a dust control system.

[Wild Dingo]

You blokes have Black and Decker over there? Their new Firestorm range is exceptional the jigsaw is the most comfortable one Ive handled well controled and an absolute pleasure to use easy change blades and is great value for money. I bought both their jigsaw and drill and reckon you cant go wrong

On routers Ive had Ryobi and B&D along with Hitachi and Axeminster routers in the last year none were a pleasure to use so decided if I wanted the best then Id have to pay for it and went and bought a Triton best thing I ever did and now rarely use the others the Triton is just a beautiful peice of machinery and the smoothest thing since sliced cheese

Years ago I bought a small 9in bandsaw and was disgusted with it never cut straight could never be setup properly and ended up tossing it on the rubbish heap but admittedly nowadays theyre probably better made... I held out for the 18in and am glad I did same with the table cabinet saw old contractors type was a pure pain new cabinet one brilliant

It all comes to cost I guess and what your prepared to pay for a particular tool and if you will use it after the boat build... Ive never been able to justify to myself the cost of LN or LV or V gear just to far way over the top downunder...

Its a good idea to know WHAT tools you will want use and need before you buy... I know that Ive got at least one cabinet type sander too many that I doubt I will use as much as I initially thought... if Id known that Id rarely use it I wouldnt have bought it

If you can afford the best right now get it you wont regret it... but if not then try to hold out till you can... it will make all the difference nowadays its a pleasure and a great joy to go to the shed to muck with my tools. before it was a bit of a "aahhh well if I must I must" thing... now she has problems keeping me away from them!!

Im still coming to terms with the Kubuta saw I bought... very light sharp definantly but the blade seems way to flimsy for the constant talk of its acuracy that goes on about them... as I said Im still coming to terms with it and have put all my other handsaws away so I have to use it if I need to use a handsaw

It was remiss not to mention dust collection!! apologies... definantly get a good dust removal system!! Absolutely... and use it!

Like many here Id also like to be able to emulate Bob with his abilities to reno old relics into beautiful functioning tools... sadly Im no where near as knowledgeable as he in the areas where its needed. Nor patient enough either!! But its good to save his posts for some time down the track when you have a stack of "buggared" tools and maybe not enough $$ to replace them then you can get out Bobs posts and give it a go.

[Rick Tyler]

I don't often find myself disagreeing with Bob about much, but I don't want his comment about cordless tools to pass. I've had a 12-volt DeWalt cordless for at least eight years. I'm a hobbyist and not a pro, but I do a lot more woodworking than most non-professionals. I use my 12-volt ALL the time. I use a corded drill if I have to drill a lot of big holes (like when I do pocketholes for cabinetry), and the drill press for precision or large bits. Other than that, I grab for the 12-volt even more than I do my bigger cordless drill. The 12-volt is strong enough for nearly everything, and a lot lighter than the bigger ones. As for reliability, the only maintenance it gets is an occasional drop on a concrete floor. It has never hiccuped, although I have replaced the first two battery packs it came with.

If I had it to do over again, I'd buy the cordless driver/drill first, then a jigsaw, then a router, and then a corded circular saw. This priority is based on how I use my tools, which is admittedly a lot more for cabinetry and other woodworking than for boats.

Does anyone want to compare electric sander collections?

[ 12-03-2005, 02:14 AM: Message edited by: Rick Tyler ]

[pipefitter]

We use the Dewalt cordless 18v drills at the shop and I have not been impressed with their chucks or their batteries. The Hitachi 14.4 is better than the dewalt 18.The batteries also last longer.
Belt sander. Even if a cheap one. The cheap one will get you thru and they are light which means you wont do as much damage when using it away from the bench.Great touchup tool for cleaning up substandard saw cuts.
If you get your power tools as you need them you are more likely to use them enough to atleast test the warranty.
RO sander is a good tool to have.Like others have mentioned,it is alot faster to cut fair curves with a circular saw and neater than a sabre saw.Especially if you prescore the cut line with a utility knife to avoid the ratty edge.

Long boards for sanding.A flexible or semi flexible one is invaluable for fairing work.I found that my stainless drywall finishing tools worked much better than the plastic ones for fairing work and I made a hawk for handling putty.You can bend the 10" joint knife to fit the curve of your hull if you need to fair scarfs or butt joints in the planking. The hawk enables you to spread out your putty keeping it from getting hot and setting up prematurely.The joint knives are also easier to control than trowels.Of the joint knives, I would get a 3" angled for getting into corners,the 5" taping knife and the 10". I mention sanding/finishing tools because it seems is where most of the work is in building a boat.

[Mick Herron]

Brain,

My two cents worth. I recntly completed a McGregor glued lapstake canoe.

The only power tools that I used in order of functionality were: Boshe jig saw, Porter Cable laminate trimmer and a Dewalt cordless drill. I used a Stanley low angle plane and a Stanley rabbet plane. I lost the rabbet plane in a move and replaced it with a Vertius rabbet plane. The Vertius plane was far superior.

I have a friend (I'll call him Capt'n Dave) who used his table saw and thickness planer to prepare the raw wood.

These limited tools are all that is really needed. I probably spent the most time with the planes and a lot of sandpaper. The rabbet plane is important in a lapstrake project for clean lap edges and the gains.

Good Luck

[Garrett Lowell]

"Someone mentioned that the barrel handle is great. Why is that? "

Brian, I prefer the barrel handle models because your hand is closer to the work piece, so good control is much easier to achieve. Also, you're less likely to tip the saw.

I will second what others here have said: A good bandsaw is more useful than a jigsaw most of the time. But in a comparison with a cheap 9" bandsaw, the good jigsaw wins every time.

I bought and reconditioned (meaning I knocked off the surface rust and replaced the tires) a pre-WWII Boice Crane 14" bandsaw for about 175 bucks, including new tires and two new blades. It came with a Peerless 1/3 hp motor, which is about as big as a trashcan and has yet to bog down on any cut I've made. By far it's the best power tool I've ever owned. I mention this because in your area there are alot of good older saws available, saws of a quality unmatched by today's standards.

[Garrett Lowell]

Forgot to add: the Bosch 1591EVSK barrel handle is the same one I have. That's a pretty good price, and free shipping makes for a no-brainer.

[troutman]

I have the Bosch with the handle. I wanted the barrel type especially after seeing Norm use one but I found it a little too fat. You might want to hold one before buying. I don't have an especially small hand.

[George Roberts]

Brian Granger ---

I practice a different philosophy than most.

I buy tools that I need, when I need them. I buy the cheapest tools that will do the job.

I would rather buy a cheap tool and replace it with a better (more expensive) tool if it works out than buy an expensive tool and find it gathering dust.

I find new tools are as good as old.

[Cullen T.M. McGough]

Kneepads. You're gonna need kneepads.

You'll need 'em when you're down under the hull, and again when you go to the bank to ask for more money to finish the boat.

-CTMM

[Rick Clark]

jimendel said One tool I used to build my skiff was a Ryobi 4" angle grinder with a zirconia flap disc. This baby can really move some wood- you can sculpt with it. I don't think it's a tool that's normally used in boat building, though.

Yes you are right there. But when I need to take a lota wood off I use the 9" skill 24 or 36 grit. You can build a table stand for the big one and still be portable

[jimendel]

Rick,
As you have also found, it does pay to occasionlly think outside the box!

[Paul Scheuer]

Dingo's right, start with whatever you've got. You'll learn what you need.

The prospect of hacking out the rest of these frames with a jigsaw is what turned me to a bandsaw after hand making the first one. I went in a little heavier than I really needed with the Rockwell 14. Since then I've found more and more uses, and have used it to its limit. What appeals to me is that there are no other benches, saw horses, vises, clamps, etc. to set up - just walk up with the wood, flip the switch, and walk it through.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid18/pa2d0f4c1f714f7813cb891dd77669875/fdcc740a.jpg

[Godwin]

Get a Beard Ax.

[Lewisboats]

Hey! I gotta hairy face but not THAT hairy!! :eek: :D

Steve

[Y Bar Ranch]

So if I'm going to be building a strip-planked boat out of cedar, and all I have at the moment are a circular saw and a 9" band saw (Xmas gift), what should I get next?

I've been thinking a thickness planer and something to cut the strips with. Strips will be 3/4" x 1 1/8". Either table saw with think kerf blade or try my little band saw.

Thoughts?