suggetsions for keel, stem and stern material

[tburris]

I live in southern oregon, and would like some suggetions for building the keel,stem and stern from one type of material other than white oak. The boat is an Allegra 24, ballast weight over 2000 lbs. Any thoughts?

Ted

[TR]

Laminated Douglas Fir.

Tad

[Bob Smalser]

Go to Baileys-online.com and give their Lucas mill salesmen a call, as they are just down the road a piece in Laytonville, CA.

Should be a good number of those straight-cutting, big-wood mills locally in the hands of fellas who should have good, straight, airdried DF and cedar stock for your purpose.

Tight (8 rings or better) DF there should be under 2 bucks/bf in quantity. WR Cedar will be more, probably times two. Port Orford Cedar will be more still. Buy the cedar green and get them to show you how to stack, sticker and cover as it will airdry to 12% or so by this July or August when you are ready to use it.

[ 01-23-2005, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[TimothyB]

As an additional note:

Douglas Fir (as Bob mentions, decent ring count of at least 8 per inch) can be used all over the boat. Keel, planks, etc.

Port Orford Cedar is better for planking than D. Fir.

Alaskan Yellow Cedar is also good for planking, and you may have some in Oregon.

But, failing that, D. Fir is the wonder wood. ;) Here in the Northeast, we don't really have a wood like it that can do all the jobs of a boat hull. Here we rely on White Oak or Black Locust for heavy bits, and white cedar or Eastern White pine for planking and light bits, spruce for spars.

You could build a whole boat out of Hackmatack/Tamarack, which does grow here.. but many people here dislike it and it isn't as virtuous as D. Fir. A carpenter I know called it "a junk wood", but then LOTS of vessels have been built of it:

http://www.worldvoyagers.com/boatbuilder/jm01.htm

Renamed the Quinnipack and now is used as an educational vessel:

http://www.schoonersoundlearning.org/schooner.html

[Bob Smalser]

I'd choose DF over ash in almost every instance short of baseball bats and baskets. A little lighter and a little weaker than ash, but good rot resistance in the tighter-grained stock. My floating dock frames are all untreated DF and will probably last 50 years.

Takes glues just fine. The USDA doesn't give it their highest rating for gluing but their concern is commercial plywood production using steamed, rotary-cut sapwood.

Almost all traditionally larger vessels here have either DF or the harder cedars...PO or Alaska Yellow...planking. DF is pretty heavy for small boat planking. But DF moves seasonally a good bit compared to the cedars, which are preferred for many applications. It's a tradeoff....flatsawn DF takes fasteners with less chance of splitting than q-sawn but might not be a good planking choice for a boat out of the water a lot. Riftsawn stock is the compromize.

Finally, DF is cheap and available. PO and AY Cedars are expensive and can be hard to find.

[paladin]

Go with the Fir.....dollar fer dollar it's a good choice.

[tburris]

Thanks all for the suggestions. It gives me food for thought :cool: Im not looking to save money just looking for the best wood that I can laminate and that isnt to hard to shape.

Ted

[Dave Fleming]

Use your head when figureing out the thickness of each lamination. Lay out the maximum curvature and see what will bend.

I have had no trouble with Air Dried Doug Fir and the Goo Goo Bros epoxee.

This is a pretty good curve and the laminates are about 3/8ths or maybe a bit more in thickness.

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL780/3097474/6292566/80977711.jpg

[gert]

DFir loves epoxy; wet both surfaces with epoxy first, wait 10 min then apply epoxy thickened with "wood flour", don't tighten your clamps so hard they force ALL the glue out of the joint.

[Venchka]

I reckon, given your location, that you could build the whole boat out of D-F, red & yellow cedar, black locust and/or Gerry oak and Sitka spruce.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D