Cetol

[gert]

This is Cetol on a Douglas Fir table that was left out all winter.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3330/3591769703_99b34390b4.jpg
Only the horizontal surfaces look like this, the vertical parts are fine. What can we do to "restore" the clients table?

Thx

[kc8pql]

Sand it off and re-do, and tell them not to leave a natural finished table outside through a northern winter.;)

[David G]

I've never seen Cetol fail so quickly and completely. How was the wood prepped before the Cetol was applied? Was it just slapped on some old, weathered wood? Was it applied over something like Thompson's WaterSeal (silicon content)? I'm guessing the answer is: repair table and sand down to bare wood; solvent wash; let dry; apply Cetol per instructions.


"The world's as ugly as sin, and almost as beautiful" -- Frederich Locker-Lamson

[peter radclyffe]

Sand it off and re-do, and tell them not to leave a natural finished table outside through a northern winter.;)
sandblast and cement wash, that,ll get you thru a few winters

[Bob Cleek]

What Peter said. It looks just like all the year old Cetol I've ever seen. What did they expect... that the fairy tales printed on the can were going to come true? (BTW, obviously, the vertical sections are less degraded because they got less UV weathering.)

[peter radclyffe]

This is Cetol on a Douglas Fir table that was left out all winter.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3330/3591769703_99b34390b4.jpg
Only the horizontal surfaces look like this, the vertical parts are fine. What can we do to "restore" the clients table?

Thx
wood needs pampering in most weather, linseed oil, then 2 coats of red lead primer, seal the ends especially, then wood primer, then 3 undercoats, 2 topcoats, keep the blistering wind, frost and sun out, our constant battle

[peter radclyffe]

wood needs pampering in most weather, linseed oil, then 2 coats of red lead primer, seal the ends especially, then wood primer, then 3 undercoats, 2 topcoats, keep the blistering wind, frost and sun out, our constant battle if youve seen the paintwork on old horse carts, 14 coats of good paint, but it lasts 40 years

[David G]

What Peter said. It looks just like all the year old Cetol I've ever seen. What did they expect... that the fairy tales printed on the can were going to come true? (BTW, obviously, the vertical sections are less degraded because they got less UV weathering.)

Interesting. Is that (... all the year old Cetol I've ever seen) strictly true? Or are you putting on your Grumpy Opinionated Old Curmudgeon hat? I have several friends who have Cetol on their boats, and it's still holding up well after 5 - 7 years. Some boats get recoated as much as twice a year. Some probably haven't been touched since the original application. I wonder why the discrepancy in our experiences? I put Cetol on my little PDR last year, but it lives inside, so hasn't really had any kind of test. Looks fine, though, after one summer of hard usage. I wonder why the discrepancy in our experiences. Any thoughts?


"Although prepared for martyrdom, I prefer that it be postponed" -- Winston Churchill

[kc8pql]

My sitka mast and booms have 6 coats of Cetol on them. After three years out in the weather year 'round, they still look like they were just done. On the other hand, my white oak hatches, with 3 coats, look like crap now. Going to re-build them out of ipe and leave them bare. Anyway, I think success with Cetol depends on the wood species and number of coats applied.

[Concordia...41]

Cetol does fine if applied correctly - i.e. clean freshly sanded wood and 6-8 coats (whatever it says on the can) then lightly sanded and recoated annually (or whatever it says on the can).

That picture looks like someone had an old warped table (or a new one haphazardly put together from scrap lumber) and thought a couple of coats would turn it into a handsome masterpiece...

[Mike Vogdes]

That doesn't look like Cetol to me, it looks more like Semco. Cetol will hold up for a long time if applied correctly as already stated, unless of course your one of those elitist who will only consider varnish a couple times a year.

[Ron Williamson]

Where was there any UV in Vancouver in the winter?A tanning salon?
Horizontal flat surfaces are brutal to keep anything on.
Any guesses why porch and deck paint is such great stuff for things besides porches and decks?

Sitting water water is the culprit.The checking doesn't help,by holding much water
The in-laws have a Cetoled white pine table that sits outside from May til October.It gets recoated every two or three years and looks great between coatings.
R

[Dale Genther]

Margo, We put a lot of Cetol on customers boats. I pretty much agree with you, 3-4 coats on freshly sanded wood will last about a year, here in the Chesapeake (probably less time in FL). After that it is 2 coats per year. Then it eventually gets so dark and nasty looking you can't see the grain of the wood. Although the Natural Teak version is better in this regard. Then it is time to strip it and start over. With this much coating and recoating and stripping you would be better off using real varnish from the start. But many of our customers don't want to hear the word "varnish" because to them it is a synonym for "maintenance". Little do they know.

[Wild Wassa]

"This is Cetol on a Douglas Fir table that was left out all winter."

Mate, after viewing your photograph, I've not seen Cetol looking so good.

Normally Cetol looks like it is turning an insipid yellow.

Bravo Gert ... on your successfully orangish looking result. Maybe Cetol is a better product than I know about.

Warren.

[Bob Cleek]

Cetol does fine if applied correctly - i.e. clean freshly sanded wood and 6-8 coats (whatever it says on the can) then lightly sanded and recoated annually (or whatever it says on the can).

Say it isn't so! CETOL on a Concordia? OMG!

Varnish does fine, and looks better, at far less cost than Cetol, "if applied correctly - i.e. clean freshly sanded wood and 6-8 coats... then lightly sanded and recoated annually..."

[donald branscom]

What Peter said. It looks just like all the year old Cetol I've ever seen. What did they expect... that the fairy tales printed on the can were going to come true? (BTW, obviously, the vertical sections are less degraded because they got less UV weathering.)

Cetol is a GREAT product.
I used it on my teak dorade boxes and it lasted 3 years.
The reason it outlasted any kind of varnish is that CETOL has
red iron oxide in it.

I do not think it was meant to be used on a table sitting on the land.
On a boat which moves around, moisture drains off.
A table on the land just sits and if the moisture collects or snow piles up, then it can freeze.
On a boat the moisture would drain off of a curved or slanted surface especially if it was moving from the boat reacting to the waves.

A lot of people do not like cetol because of the color so they say it is a bad product.
If you say you do not like the color that is one thing.

[jimmy]

Part of the reason cetol has a bad reputation is that almost nobody follows the directions. Cetol is a two part system, base coats of cetol marine (or one of the newer variations like "light" or "natural teak") followed by the gloss coats, with a maintenance gloss coat every year. If you don't put on the required number of coats it won't last and if you just keep putting on coats of the cetol marine, it will just get darker and oranger and looks crappy. Even when you don't follow the directions, it still works pretty well, but if you do follow the directions it works well and looks great. My mast hasn't been touched since I put cetol on it more than 5 years ago and I still get comments on how nice the "varnish" looks.

[RodB]

The builder of Susan down here had several recommendatons on Cetol while at the boat show in Port Townsend. Several schooner owners told him that just plain Cetol on bare wood, at least 3 coats... worked fine on their masts, etc...

RodB

[Bob Cleek]

Cetol isn't a "bad" product. It's a matter of opinion. Compared to varnish, Cetol is no longer lasting, assuming each are properly prepped and applied, more demanding of care in application, more expensive, and, well... yes... there's the color.

Most all the varnish manufacturers lie about how long their products will last, too. Believing either of them is foolish. A single coat of anything isn't going to last too long in the weather.

I am curious, though, whether or not Cetol actually "lasts longer than varnish," how does "red iron oxide" make it last longer than varnish? (Not an argument. Really an honest question.)

[RodB]

Oh, yea, I forgot.. we use Cetol alone (not the second part) on teak strips on fiberglass boat seats... which last for at least 2.5 years.. horizontally in the sun here in Texas... with tons of exposure from the sun.

RodB

[kc8pql]

I am curious, though, whether or not Cetol actually "lasts longer than varnish," how does "red iron oxide" make it last longer than varnish? (Not an argument. Really an honest question.)
It's an excellent UV inhibitor, but then again, so is the pigment in paint.;)

[Concordia...41]

Say it isn't so! CETOL on a Concordia? OMG!

Varnish does fine, and looks better, at far less cost than Cetol, "if applied correctly - i.e. clean freshly sanded wood and 6-8 coats... then lightly sanded and recoated annually..."

Dear Heavens NO! :eek:

I have clients though who prefer Cetol for it's relative ease of use and fair life expectancy (when applied and maintained per the manufacturer's instructions).

Uuukkk! Now I have to get the visual of a Concordia Cetoled out of my head.... :(:eek: [shudders...]

[RodB]

Hey Bob... Cetol is quite a bit easier to apply than varnish... just about anyone can do it and get nice results.

R

[Rapelapente]

Oh, yea, I forgot.. we use Cetol alone (not the second part) on teak strips on fiberglass boat seats... which last for at least 2.5 years.. horizontally in the sun here in Texas... with tons of exposure from the sun.

RodB

Second part ? are'nt you confusing Cetol with D1/D2 ?
I've used Cetol (6 coats, natural) on my masts in september 2006. They still look OK, after summers in the med and a winter in West Indies and Florida/Carolina ! Yes, it's vertical surfaces. I'll add some coats at the end of the season.
The rails received it two years ago. Still OK.
For sure you don't get the sublime "Yacht look" with it. But I'm satisfied by the "work boat" look,
Assuming we are talking about Cetol marine, because a large range of Sikkens products are labelled Cetol.
OOPS ! I checked and there is a new Cetol Marine gloss which is aimed to be a top coat for the regular Cetol Marine. May be RodB was talking about this.
Anybody used it ?
http://www.sikkensyachtpaints.com/english/product_guide/default.asp?action=True&page=&oid=21

[dhic001]

I've used Cetol for quite a number of years now, with good results. No it doesn't last forever, but it lasts far longer than varnish does in our harsh UV light. I personally don't bother with the marine stuff, the normal household stuff lasts very well, and is far cheaper. None of the vessels, that I've worked on, that have Cetol on them, have ever gone back to varnish. If maintained on an annual basis, with another coat or two, the vessel stays looking great year after year. Sure you won't get the very high gloss of varnish, but it won't take the time either.

Daniel

[RodB]

OOPS ! I checked and there is a new Cetol Marine gloss which is aimed to be a top coat for the regular Cetol Marine. Maybe RodB was talking about this.
Anybody used it ?
http://www.sikkensyachtpaints.com/en...e&page=&oid=21

Yep... the gloss part from my understanding is part of the Cetol system to be used over Cetol Marine or Natural Teak..... Or NOt!

R

[jimmy]

OOPS ! I checked and there is a new Cetol Marine gloss which is aimed to be a top coat for the regular Cetol Marine. May be RodB was talking about this.
Anybody used it ?
http://www.sikkensyachtpaints.com/english/product_guide/default.asp?action=True&page=&oid=21

Yes, on my mast 5+ years so far, still looks good. The clear coats don't build up the colour that people hate cetol for. Cetol marine alone doesn't last as long and doesn't look as good.

[RodB]

Yes, on my mast 5+ years so far, still looks good. The clear coats don't build up the colour that people hate cetol for. Cetol marine alone doesn't last as long and doesn't look as good

On the fiberglass boats I work on... they don't care about the clear coat... but I have been meaning to try it on a special case where there is more teak done than just stern seats....

R

[gert]

What is:


sandblast and cement wash

"cement wash"

thank-you

[peter radclyffe]

What is:



"cement wash"

thank-you
years ago the inside of some fresh water tanks were treated with cement, sand and water slurry, to protect them, think about how cement sticks to a shovel, i said it half in jest, if you want a weatherproof finish, to survive a brutal winter, think about the redering, or pebble dash on a house, it works, and its cheap, if you want 15 coats of varnish, thats another story