What is your favorite Bolger design?

[straightandtrue]

I have seen his 23' Fantail Launch built by an Oxford, MD builder, a wood delight. Do you have a design by Mr. Bolger that warms your heart?

I read Philip Bolger's, NA, obituary in today's New York Times. Happy sailing Mr. Bolger!

[Capt Nat]

...electric launch "Lily" and
...outboard cruiser "Champlain"...

...my "Lily" is under construction in the shop now...

[Bobcat]

Bobcat

(No surprise there)

[johngsandusky]

Moccasin, or the lapstrake Chebacco.

[David G]

Too many candidates. I think I'd have to break it down into categories somehow.

[TimH]

gull

[outofthenorm]

HMS Rose is right up there.

http://www.pioneernet.net/bobz3/images/nightRose.jpg

[rbgarr]

Defender

[spirit]

The clamskiff is typical of Bolger: very well designed for its purpose, extremely practical, simple, easy to build, inelegant and very satisfying to own and use.

[Stu Fyfe]

Too many catagories, so many designs! I, of course am partial to my Bolger triple keel sloop which I launched today for her 28th season.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_SHBgt6toQvQ/R6JSXX_FN1I/AAAAAAAAALg/o5l42Gq3RCA/s400/is_00056.jpg

[Robmill0605]

Sneakeasy and Champlain and, oh hell I like them all.

[htom]

Folding Schooner, if for no other reason than the class rules.

Too many that are too good to make anything like a rational choice.

[Wild Dingo]

Simple

St Valery :cool: :cool:

[Captain Blight]

St-Valery

HMS Rose

Blackbird ::wipes streak of drool from chin::



Question: What happens now with his designs that have had plans for them sold, but not built? Can the plans be transferred openly, or would an honest man send Suzanne a check?

[Dave Wright]

Cartopper for sailing afternoons.
Diablo for outboard afternoons.
Samuel Clyde for long weekends, but lose the I/O and go with twin outboards.
Reasons: simplicity of construction, value for dollar spent.

[retrowood]

Sea Hawk for it's graceful simplicity.

Retrowood

[Paul Pless]

Question: What happens now with his designs that have had plans for them sold, but not built? If a boat hasn't been built to an individual set of plans then the right to build 'one boat' to said plans remains transferable.

[Lance F. Gunderson]

While I like many of his designs, I think I'd have to pick Moccasin as my favorite, with Burgandy, Manatee, Skillegalle, Palo de Agua, Dakini and of course the Light Dory as close seconds. I'm currently sailing a Black Skimmer, my second. I built a Surf back in 1977 which was a lot of fun too. I hope Suzanne will publish a complete list of his designs...something on the order of Richard Henderson's book on Phil Rhodes. Oh, I forgot to mention Africa, the cutter he designed for Brad Story. I had the great pleasure of sailing her once and offered to buy her if she ever came up for sale; I understand she was lengthened into a small schooner...which I would not like at all.

[Tom Montgomery]

My favorite is Spartina. Mr. Bolger also seemed to be particularly fond of this pretty little centerboard, lapstrake sloop.

[Howard Sharp]

Dakini. A few years ago I missed buying her by a couple of days, for which I am still sad. But I think all his designs stand out. I am always amazed at how "shippy" they all are when you see them up close.

[Lance F. Gunderson]

Mait Edey was sorry he sold Dakini and was thinking of trying to buy her back. He said he wanted to see the sun rise and set from a boat once again. I sent him an e mail inquiring as to her whereabouts but haven't heard back yet. I had the pleasure of crewing on Dakini several times and liked her a lot; she is especially comfortable below.

[ben2go]

I haven't ever found a Bolger boat that I didn't like.If I must choose one,it'd be the Sneakeasy.It takes me back to a time in which I wished I had lived.A simpler easier time.

[Rigadog]

While I like many of his designs, I think I'd have to pick Moccasin as my favorite, with Burgandy, Manatee, Skillegalle, Palo de Agua, Dakini and of course the Light Dory as close seconds. I'm currently sailing a Black Skimmer, my second. I built a Surf back in 1977 which was a lot of fun too. I hope Suzanne will publish a complete list of his designs...something on the order of Richard Henderson's book on Phil Rhodes. Oh, I forgot to mention Africa, the cutter he designed for Brad Story. I had the great pleasure of sailing her once and offered to buy her if she ever came up for sale; I understand she was lengthened into a small schooner...which I would not like at all.

Why doesn't the Black Skimmer come higher up on the list?

[Arko]

gull

Second that.

[kenjamin]

Japanese Beach Cruiser with Birdwatcher a close second – good Florida boats. :cool:

[VikingSailor]

That is easy for me.........the Folding Schooner, a typical Bolger bit of Yankee fun......what's not to like about a schooner which folds in half?

Here is my "Dark Star".......

http://s577.photobucket.com/albums/ss214/VikingSailor58/Folding%20Schooner/th_Jerysfoldingschooner030.jpg

[paladin]

Blackbird and St Valery...

[Russ Manheimer]

Spartina, then Moccasin and maybe Alert. Love his barge type cruisers like Manatee. Spent many an imaginary hour aboard her.

And of couse the humble Elegant Punt. I've built four of them. The last two are still sailing up at my brother's. I may bring them to the Bolger gathering this fall.

[Daniel Noyes]

Harbinger

I had the pleasure of helping to maintain her for a couple yrs. This boat influenced my ideas on deck design and also made the point that speed is not entirely a function of sail area.

Mouser is also pretty cool.

looking forward to the Bolger Boats gathering, wonder if it will corespond with the Gloucester Schooner Fest or later, could be a busy boat fall.

Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[Steve Paskey]

The canoe yawl Nord Koster:

http://www.boatbldr.com/html/gallery/photos/photo003.jpg

[Rev Geo]

Micro

[Lance F. Gunderson]

Why doesn't the Black Skimmer come higher up on the list?
I think Skillegalle is an improvement on Black Skimmer, being four feet longer with the same beam, which makes her a much better sailor on all points and especially to windward; plus the offcenterboard eliminates the heavy, ugly leeboards; and she has an on-line motor which doesn't hit the rudder blade when you try to turn to starboard. But only one Skillegalle has been built and she's in Alaska and I'm in Maine (I tried to buy her from Thomas Fulk, the original owner, but , though the price was right, shipping her back to Maine was not cost effective.) I just happened to find a Skimmer on the Navy Yard less than a mile from my mooring, in good shape and at a good price; I couldn't resist. When I had deep draft boats I often though of all the neat things I could do if I had my old shoal draft Tashtego, my first Black Skimmer....plus I kept running aground in the deep boats. Now I'm enjoying the virtues of shoal draft once again. But it would be better in Skillegalle.

[Ed Armstrong]

I haven't seen any of these boats in-person, just plans and photos, but I've always liked the lapstrake Chebacco, the triple keel sloop that Stu posted (love to see some photos Stu), and Blueberry.

I generally prefer traditional designs, but I once saw a Micro in person and was captivated by her uniqueness. She was a rare wooden gem in a marina full of fiberglass.

Ed

[davebrown]

gypsy. great easy first time build. and pretty fast and sea worthy.

[boylesboats]

There's one that haven't been mentioned
That's Queen Mab http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/queen_mab/index.htm A very cute little sailing cat... Barely bigger than a bathtub
http://web.comhem.se/chby/segling/QM04-A.htm
http://www.strangepaintings.com/Launchingday.htm
http://web.comhem.se/chby/segling/alstraub.htm
http://web.comhem.se/chby/segling/wburgess.htm
I posted this because, this design rarely get noticed..

[Ian McColgin]

I could not choose a favorite - too many even when you dismiss the aesthetically challenged - but a number of members have indicated that Phil himself was right, the Glouster Gull has ensured that even as I write he's been admitted to heaven. Probably holding a seminar redesigning boats for Gallalie's artisanal fishermen.

On the Gull, seriously, think of the perfection of so many values - beauty, economy, simplicity, seaworthiness, total grace . . .

[davebrown]

and ease of build. with the exception of the stem, it goes together like a simple ply sheet skiff.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Blackbird, followed by Dovekie,

Moby Nick

[Woxbox]

Lapstrake Chebacco for me, too.

[James McMullen]

That is a hard one. . . .don't want to speak ill of the dead. . . .

I've built quite a few Bolger designs, at least seven that I can remember, and I used to think I wanted to build each and every one of 'em I read about in all of his different books. . . .

But to be honest, I can't think of a single one of his boats I'd even consider using my own money on right now as even the very best of his aren't in the same class of art as designs by Oughtred or Herreshoff or Crocker.
Once your woodworking skills have progressed to the point where "Easy to build" is more or less irrelevant and "beautiful" and "exceptional performance" are primary goals, Bolger has substantially less to offer, despite his vast catalog. I regard him as a fantastic writer and a wonderful teacher, but his actual boats. . . .? I don't want one anymore.

[dredbob]

While there are many that appeal to me, the one that I think I would have if I could afford it is Titania, the 50 foot bermuda rigged schooner from _30 Odd Boats_. Clipper bow, elliptical transome, only 2' 6" draft with the twin bilge boards up. Beautiful, to my eyes, every bit as much a work of art as anything LFH ever drew (and I am a LHF fan also).

And while I don't begrudge James his opinion, I have to think that he's not seen many of Phil's "non-square" designs as I have, because many of them are as traditionally beautiful as the works of the other designers he has mentioned.

Bob

[adampet]

Gloucester Light Dory...I've had mine ten years and it still brings smiles to face every time I sit on the thwart. Whether it's skimming along on a flat calm or surfing standing waves it has never let me down.

I'd love to try some of his Sharpies as Cape Cod Bay boats. The Black Skimmer has always intrigued me, as well as the Advanced Sharpies or Martha Jane.

Adam

[boylesboats]

Lapstrake Chebacco for me, too.

Even carvel planked Chebacco is a looker..

[skuthorp]

Birdwatcher, for me the ideal boat. Saw one for sale in Hobart. Then the Folding Schooner for it's sheer pzazz and performance and Black Skimmer which is probably the most practical for my sailing environment.

[WX]

I've built 2 Cartoppers and had a lot of fun in the one I kept...only problem is recovery after capsizing. They are an absolute bugger to bailout and get back in.
I built a Diablo up in Port Moresby for a friend years ago and got almost hooked on going fast and loud. We put a 25 HP outboard on it and man could it move...great load carrier as well. I must scan the photos I have and post them sometime.

[aeronca52]

My 25 foot Bateau. Has 3 rowing stations, ends decked over, a fourth rear seat for a child, stability, and a great looking shear.

Also partial to the Black Skimmer, Light Dory, Folding Schooner,Tennessee, and a few of Payson's smaller plans like the 10 1/2 Pointy Skiff, all on the bucket list.

[earling2]

Agree with Dan Noyes--love Harbinger. Also Mouser has always looked pretty interesting. But many others--ridiculous, really, how many. Lynx (saw the one and only Lynx years ago--very very cool). Yarrow. Defender (owner/builder). Black Skimmer (owner/builder). Auray Punt (owner/builder). LIttle Superior. Nahant. Palo de Agua. Queen Mab. on and on and on. Nord Koster. And, I have to say, I couldn't DISagree more with James McCullen--I could pick out probably 20 designs from his first couple of books that I would put up against anybody's work, aesthetically, and I think he was the flat-out master of yachty detail (which you don't see on his box boats). Anyway. A shouting match like that never ends well. We'd need exhibits, referees, a bailiff, and a jury.

as for Black Skimmer--I'm a little amazed and awed at Lance F. Gunderson's statements about Skillygalee's sailing abilites, since it's hard to imagine any sharpie being a "significantly better" sailor than my Black Skimmer was. If so, that's a pretty damn good sailing boat. Has he sailed both boats? Is that what I'm hearing? For the record, I'd include Skimmer in the above list of favorites, maybe even number one in function. (I always like Skillygalee, too, but you can't build every boat in the world . . .)

I hope, in the fall, if an when there's a Bolger Regatta, somebody has a Spur II, one of the hands down most beautiful boats I've ever seen. Next to a Brick and an AS29.

[Russ Manheimer]

And then there's the NanoCruiser in this months MAIB. A marriage between a Brick and a Birdwatcher. Pure Bolger. Pure reason and boxy as hell. For everyone of these there's a Gloucester Gull or St Valery.

Has anyone ever seen a Burgundy; Bolger's take on a Welfare Fleet Rozinante?

[earling2]

Never saw a Burgundy. But studied it for several zillion hours . . .

I have a feeling if I spent a weekend gunkholing in a Birdwatcher, I'd probably put that in the Best Of list, too, though they're kind of hard to love, visually

[James McMullen]

. . . . a Spur II, one of the hands down most beautiful boats I've ever seen. Next to a Brick and an AS29.

Oh dear. Well, all I can say is à chacun ses goûts, plus if you build a Brick or an AS29 or any of those sorts of boats you'd better really like it, because you're sure as hell not going to sell it at a profit.

Plus, looking at both a Spur II and Oughtred's similarly Whitehall derived Acorn Skiff side by side really just says it all.

Spur II:http://farm1.static.flickr.com/32/44190880_a0fe58d2e1.jpg?v=0
Acorn Skiff:
http://www.harwoodwatercraft.com/2007%20Acorn%20Rowing.jpg

Was damping down the shape at the stern to avoid a tuck at the transom worth it aesthetically for you? Not for me! Not even for the Whitehall builders who had to plank up the original ones without the benefit of gap-filling epoxy. Good enough just isn't really good enough sometimes.

Still, Bolger was an individualistic genius, no question. I've enjoyed his books immensely.

[T. Traddles]

Spartina gets my vote!

]

[Stu Fyfe]

Here you go Ed.
http://picasaweb.google.com/MacDuff66/Redwing#
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_SHBgt6toQvQ/R6JSVX_FNrI/AAAAAAAAAKQ/ao1uE8qTcqw/s512/is_00124.jpg
Stu

[Ed Armstrong]

Thanks Stu. I was originally intrigued by the design in the BDQ article. Redwing looks like a very nice sloop! I'm surprised to see what appears to be sitting headroom in the cabin. You have some neat photos of Mr. Bolger in that album (and likely priceless memories).

Ed

[Stu Fyfe]

The cabin has sitting head room. Surprisingly comfortable. The pipeberths fold up and become back rests. I once spent three weeks aboard her on the coast of Maine. Yes, many of us on the site have plenty of Bolger memories and stories to tell. The BDQ article was quite a surprise. Redwing is a cover girl!
Stu

[Howard Sharp]

All this talk of designs I've only heard of but not seen drove me to look for 30 Odd Boats on Amazon. Well a new copy now goes for $188, and second hand for $80-90.

[Mark Van]

I like Sneakeasy and the 23 foot light schooner. I think it would be neat to have both boats, they would both fit in one standard marina slip. If the weather was good for sailing, take the schooner out, otherwise, take the sneakeasy out. I did have a ride in a sneakeasy quite a few years ago, which gave me the idea to build a large power sharpie. I ended up living aboard it for 6 and 1/2 years, and cruised over 10,000 miles on it.

[Saltiguy]

Right now, I'm building a "Champlain" design. Very ingenious. Two full berths, enclosed head, hanging locker, nice galley, standing headroom, bow and stern cockpits, more storage than you could ever use, and all on a 22 foot w/L

[earling2]

answering James McMullen, since Bolger even discussed the fact that Spur II is not a whitehall, I would think the issue of a wineglass transom is kind of moot. But since you like them, and it doesn't have one, then.... you prefer the one that has one. I prefer the one that doesn't have one, carries its beam futher aft, and has lower freeboard. (I've rowed a bunch of whitehalls, too, and like something that doesn't have that radical skeg to keep it punching through offshore chop in a straight line. They're a bear to turn, in my experience)

About the AS29 and Brick . . .Yeah, no kidding. They have the resale value of an Edsel. I think that's pretty widely known, no? But they work pretty great, yes?

which five (or seven?) Bolger designs were you disappointed by that you built? (If I remember right, you said you "thought you wanted them at the time?")

And I guess there's some designer out there who's boat you built and loved?

[Brian Palmer]

I am partial to the Elegant Punt because I built one when I was 14. I sailed it with a modified Dyer Dinghy rig for several years before I sold it to Robert Douglas, owner of the Schooners Shenandoah and Alabama. His young kids (now grown men) preferred sailing it over their Beetle Cat when they were very small.

Who would ever think that the likes of Robert Douglas would ever own a "Bolger Box"? Seems rather ironic, but perhaps just another testament to Mr. Bolger's skill as a designer.

Brian

[James McMullen]

Bolger boats I have built: (You can't say I haven't given it a try!)

Teal
Instant Catboat (my favorite of the lot)
Surf
Pirogue
Cartopper
Nymph
Light Schooner
Tortoise

Some of these boats are clearly very minimalistic types and so can be excused from great expectations as to performance. . . . .but I'm used to much better now, and it's hard to go back. However, the Tortoise was without question, the worst dinghy to tow in a chop that I've ever encountered--a complete waste of $40 as far as I'm concerned. I literally gave that thing away after the second cruise. Since I am constrained to always tow my dinghy by the size of my cruising boat, I have done an awful lot of "tow testing" with various shapes and types of dinghy, and there is no question that a sophisticated, round-bilged shape like my current lapstrake pram has less drag and much better sea-kindliness than a hard-chined anything. Towing in a steep, quartering sea really separates out the sheep from the goats. I wasn't expecting much with the Tortoise, and I got even less than that.

Now when my little nephew turns six, I'll maybe build a Teal with him or something like that for his first boat. There's certainly a place for cheap, minimalistic boats. It's a good place to learn. Bolger was indeed a master of this sort of craft. Some people are satisfied to stop at that level.

[James McMullen]

Stu, those pictures of your boats damaged or destroyed by various storms is heartbreaking! Yikes!

[Stu Fyfe]

James,
Those pictures were taken in Hyannis after Hurricane Bob 1991 or 92. Ian McColgin's Goblin was destroyed a couple hundred yards away from Redwing. My boat was riding it out fine until a bigger boat pulled her mooring and swept up the rest of us. It was a heartbreaking scene. The only time I've ever cried over a boat. People were in shock as they walked among the ruins. This storm kinda caught us all by surprise. I was at a Jimmy Buffett concert the night before and he announced to the crowd that we better get ready for a blow. First I heard of the storm hitting us. We had the morning to get ready, but most boats couldn't get pulled in time. She hit us in the afternoon and it was over quickly. Weather forecasters say we're due for another.

[DGentry]

Eye of the beholder and all that, but James - despite her simplicity, the Gloucester Gull is the most elegant dory, ever, and Moccasin rivals anything else in her class.

I do agree that Bolger's plywood and square boats often compromise (some) performance and (conventional) beauty for ease of construction and practicality. But many of Bolger's other designs are both conventionally beautiful and uncompromising in performance.

Regardless, this thread is about our favorite Bolger designs, so I'll add Romp to the above two, as one of only a few 30' boats I'd be happy to circumnavigate in.

I like Eeek!, too, but mainly because I'm apparently the only person to have ever built one (other than the prototype)!

There are some other Bolger boats I have on my list to build "one day," as well . . . .

Dave Gentry

A copy of Moccasin:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/alias1719/HPIM3359.jpg

[James McMullen]

Ahoy, Dave, Moccasin is pretty nice, but even here he spoils the perfection of that sweeping sheer by specifying a straight plank for a railing rather than going to the relatively insignificantly extra detail of drawing a curvy rail that complements the sheer and the curve of the hull. His urge to simplify everything, even details that wouldbe very simpletoadd a little juice to is what keeps him stuck in the ranks of the Competent Craftsmen rather than Transcendant Artist. Iain or Albert or L Francis would have put just enough shape into that rail so that it wouldn't be so jarring and dischordant.

[earling2]

this is probably playing with dynamite here, but I have a hard time reconciling that Moccasin above with the one in The Folding Schooner, which looks great to me. This one... I'll hide behind silence.

Has anybody looked at Stanley Woodward's Moccasin lately? I just did. ...

I'm really curious about this.

(and another thread talks about that unfortunate steering wheel...)

[Lance F. Gunderson]

Launched the Black Skimmer this morning and had my first sail of the season this afternoon after rigging her. Perfect day...SW 5-10, sunshine, flat sea. If any of you forumites want to come to Kittery Point for a quick sail, just let me know. You are welcome. Don't expect hot performance from a Black Skimmer, but for a relaxed daysail over shoal water she's superb. May cause you to re-think your priorities.

[earling2]

You're lucky. I wish I had mine back again.
I'm still wondering if you had a Skillygale at some point. . .

Is your Skimmer rigged with the original mast, or is it the later solent rig?

[Lance F. Gunderson]

Never had a Skille, but almost owned the one that Thomas Fulk built, which is described in 30 Odd Boats. I have sailed Black Gauntlet II, which has similar dimensions. She was very fast, points higher and pounds less than Black Skimmer. Have also sailed Dakini, Red Zinger, Africa and some now forgotten. My current Skimmer is rigged with the original mast as shown on the plans in the Folding Schooner except she has sail track. Today when three of us stepped that 34" 6" spruce stick on dry land without a crane I wished I had the solent rig! I've been dreaming of a lug rig of some type, wondering if it would work on a Skimmer. Say, was your Black Skimmer painted in the Harvard colors? If so I saw her in Edgertown sometime around 1984 when I was there in my Tashtego. She looked good!

[riverat]

Was VECTIS ever built and how did she sail? that is one BIG little ship in my view.

[James McMullen]

Hey, Tom Fulk is a friend of mine! He lives in Anacortes these days. He's working on finishing up a new glued lap pulling boat right now. The guy also makes his own bamboo fly rods too.

We were talking about the Skillygalee and he said that one thing he would definitely change if he were to have one again would be to take advantage of the new carbon-fiber spar technology for her sticks, or at least for the mainmast. He used to have to hire a crane to get it in and out as it was far too unwieldy to handle by hand.

[Lance F. Gunderson]

I usually hire a crane too, but yesterday it failed to show so we took deep breaths ans stepped it by hand, something I do not recommend. We were very lucky and it went well, but one slip would have meant disaster. I have been thinking of carbon fiber masts, but oh are they expensive! Hard to justify on a low tech boat like Black Skimmer, but no doubt they would make her sail a lot better and would last longer; I spent nearly a thousand dollars last winter having a professional re-glue my Pidgeon Hollow Spar which was de-laminating due to resorcenol glue. The wooden mast had also cracked the full length between the sail track screws. Skille had sail track too; I wonder if it gave any problems on her bendy mast?

[earling2]

Lance Gunderson--
wow, that's hilarious. If you saw a Skimmer in '84 (built mine in '86 actually) in Edgartown, chances are that was mine. Harvard colors? At that time the boat was an Interlux sort of robin's egg blue. Can't remember what they called it. Red bottom. White spars, buff decks. It used to hang on a stake in the inner harbor by the Reading Room. funny world. That boat is actually in the background of Jaws 4 The Revenge, when they pan around the harbor at night.... way way way in the background

I used to step my mast alone--and nearly ripped the deck off the boat once, doing it. I would more or less lash the boat to the Reading Room dock at low tide, and then drop the mast ever so gently into the partner's from the dock... only one time I dropped it and it ended up, believe it or not, levered at a 45 degree angle as it hung in the partners... nothing broke. Whew. Never tried that again.

My father later owned the boat and I still have the top 15 feet that he cut off when he made it a gaffer. (not the greatest idea)

I'd go for that Solent rig, if I had another. Yup--I've spent many hours dreaming of the super high tech Skimmer I'd like to build. Carbon spars, Sobstad sails...

Surprised to hear that Skillygalee was that much different of a sailor, though--my Skimmer wasn't slow (and man, reaching over the Edgartown flats on a nice summer day... shoal draft convert for life)

[Keith Wilson]

Bolger boats I've built:
Gypsy
Teal
Rubens Nymph
Cartopper - well, sort of. I converted it to plywood lapstrake and changed it a lot. Fortunately it still worked.
June Bug.

Gypsy's my favorite Bolger boat. A spectacular refutation of the idea that S&G plywood boats have to be ugly, and a surprisingly fast sailer in a strong wind.

[Songololo]

The Chebacco gets my vote:

http://www.instantboats.com/images/chebacco.gif


Although I do prefer the lapstrake version:

http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/gcobb/GrayCat_02.JPG

[Fritz Koschmann]

I owned Skillygalee for quite a while and I miss her. The only thing I thought of changing was adding leeboards and removing the "off" centerboard. The trunk ruined the cabin. I built Bolger's Double Eagle catamaran and have chartered her for several years. The Bolger design that I keep going back to and studying is Ataraxia in BWAOM. I love the simplicity of it and the look. Maybe I'll build one and do the Northwest Passage.

[Charles Burgess]

That is a hard one. . . .don't want to speak ill of the dead. . . .

I've built quite a few Bolger designs, at least seven that I can remember, and I used to think I wanted to build each and every one of 'em I read about in all of his different books. . . .

But to be honest, I can't think of a single one of his boats I'd even consider using my own money on right now as even the very best of his aren't in the same class of art as designs by Oughtred or Herreshoff or Crocker.
Once your woodworking skills have progressed to the point where "Easy to build" is more or less irrelevant and "beautiful" and "exceptional performance" are primary goals, Bolger has substantially less to offer, despite his vast catalog. I regard him as a fantastic writer and a wonderful teacher, but his actual boats. . . .? I don't want one anymore.

Just like those who love to read Shakespear, Hawthorne, and other literary greats - they all learned to read thanks to the author by the name of Dr. Suse - because they are cheap and easy to read. Sure, after learning to read well you never look back. Burgess, Herreshoff, Alden, and many others authored great yacht designs, but a new boatbuilder can do no wrong by starting out with Phil Bolger designs - because they are easy and cheap to build. Before you can build a design from those at the appex of the field, you must build your boatbuilding skills somehow. I guess you could say that Bolger designs are a boatbuilder's hooked-on-phonics program.

You don't want any of his designs anymore? Congratulations, that means that Phil Bolger was successful, in that you have grown as a boatbuilder and a sailor.

[Lance F. Gunderson]

I owned Skillygalee for quite a while and I miss her. The only thing I thought of changing was adding leeboards and removing the "off" centerboard. The trunk ruined the cabin. I built Bolger's Double Eagle catamaran and have chartered her for several years. The Bolger design that I keep going back to and studying is Ataraxia in BWAOM. I love the simplicity of it and the look. Maybe I'll build one and do the Northwest Passage.


Great to have you on the foro Fritz! Thanks for responding. I'm surprised you didn't like the centerboard; I much prefer it to leeboards. Did you ever have any problems with the sailtrack on the main mast? Mine has sailtrack and the mast cracked between the screws the full length. It was tricky and expensive to fix. I thought of going to Dutch lacing like my old Tashtego had but since I have the expensive sailtrack and the sail is fitted out for it I decided to stick with it, no pun intended. I had a pro do the work and he used the new G Flex epoxy from West, which we hope will allow for some flexing.

[Lance F. Gunderson]

Lance Gunderson--
wow, that's hilarious. If you saw a Skimmer in '84 (built mine in '86 actually) in Edgartown, chances are that was mine. Harvard colors? At that time the boat was an Interlux sort of robin's egg blue. Can't remember what they called it. Red bottom. White spars, buff decks. It used to hang on a stake in the inner harbor by the Reading Room. funny world. That boat is actually in the background of Jaws 4 The Revenge, when they pan around the harbor at night.... way way way in the background

I used to step my mast alone--and nearly ripped the deck off the boat once, doing it. I would more or less lash the boat to the Reading Room dock at low tide, and then drop the mast ever so gently into the partner's from the dock... only one time I dropped it and it ended up, believe it or not, levered at a 45 degree angle as it hung in the partners... nothing broke. Whew. Never tried that again.

My father later owned the boat and I still have the top 15 feet that he cut off when he made it a gaffer. (not the greatest idea)

I'd go for that Solent rig, if I had another. Yup--I've spent many hours dreaming of the super high tech Skimmer I'd like to build. Carbon spars, Sobstad sails...

Surprised to hear that Skillygalee was that much different of a sailor, though--my Skimmer wasn't slow (and man, reaching over the Edgartown flats on a nice summer day... shoal draft convert for life)

I saw a red Skimmer sailing out of Gloucester sometime in the '90's; she had a gaff rig and no bowsprit or leeboards and was ugly as hell, but the crew of several people seemed to be having a rockin' good time. Never saw that boat again. The one I saw in Edgertown must have been yours. I came in late at night and went on up into Katama Bay and anchored for the night; it was the Fourth Of July as I recall. But on the way past I sailed around your boat a few times to check her out. I must have mistaken the Light Blue for light gray in the dark.

[Peter Eikenberry]

Folding Schooner. That took genius.

[earling2]

Lance G--
that could happen. I can't believe it was anybody else's Skimmer since I've never seen another one around there (or anywhere)

I was introduced to leeboards with that boat, and really liked them. I put a two part purchase on each one with a cam cleat, so that when tacking all you had to do was give two huge heaves and the windward board was up. A lot easier than sheeting in a genoa... If I had a million bucks, I'd probably just build another one.

That one Nexus Marine built is pretty gold-plated, by the way, if you haven't seen it. It's google-able.

[earling2]

Not that it matters, but you're right--I did paint that boat grey the year it was launched... man o man, the brain ain't what it used to be

[Lance F. Gunderson]

My Tashtego was in Orleans, near Chatham, when I found her. I launched her at Meetinghouse Pond and sailed around Pleasant Bay for a while before sailing over to the Vineyard. I ducked into a lot of interesting gunkholes that summer on the Vineyard, Nantucket and the South side of the Cape before heading up to Maine, taking advantage of the extreme shoal draft. Later that winter I sailed her all around Florida Bay. Tashtego's leeboards were very heavy and I could hardly lift them, so I put on a two part tackle which solved the lifting problem but created tremendous drag in the water, slowing an already slow boat. My current Skimmer has the one part line as designed and so far I have been living with it as I suspect her leeboards are lighter than Tashtego's were....but they float up at the drop of a hat; I guess Phil was right when he said they do have to be that heavy. L Francis Herreshoff had a good solution to the leeboard lift problem on his Meadowlark, but it is complicated and expensive to implement. I'm amazed at the Nexus Marine Black Skimmer, certainly the most luxurious one built, but I bet she was wicked expensive, and to me that's not what plywood boats are about. Phil intended those boats to be cheap, quick and relatively easy to build. His Mocassin and Africa designs are more elaborate and less cost constrained and intended to be professionally built. Phil could design gold platers if he wanted to, but he seemed to prefer boats for the common man.

[earling2]

yes that Nexus Marine Skimmer is something else, all right. It no doubt cost a king's ransom. I thought it was kind of interesting what they did, though. You're totally right--the Skimmer's not supposed to be gold plater. But then again, why not? Mine was fast and self-steering, ultra shoal draft, had a very comfortable motion--I'd have one again in a heartbeat if I still lived near the ocean. And if I could afford it, I'd put a 4oz layer of glass on it and awlgrip it just like they did. Not sure about the cockpit backrest boxes though... or, rather, I AM sure; I don't really like them. And they ditched the hiking board, one of the most fun things on the boat.

Anyway, no offense, but I'm not understanding where you get the impression a Black Skimmer is a slow boat... I wouldn't have liked mine much if that had been the case. Downwind it was just plain fast.

Leeboards--80 lbs built to Bolger's plan (40 lbs of lead in each).

[Lance F. Gunderson]

Black Skimmers seem to be going fast....until a Cal 22 or similar floating bathtub zips right by you. If you race or sail in company with other boats the slowness of the Skimmer becomes painfully apparent. Also they don't point high and are deathly slow to windward. Downwind with both boards up and the main and mizzen wing and wing she will pass a few boats, but not many. A Sailmaster 22 or a Marshall 18' catboat will sail rings around a Black Skimmer, literally. One of the few boats a Black Skimmer will beat on all points is a Munroe Egret, and an H28. Black Skimmer is wide for her length, and has an outside chine which induces eddying, and she's only 21' LWL. The cat yawl rig in not inherantly fast, and the drag from the leeboards doesn't help either. If it's speed you want, a Black Skimmer is not a good choice. But for minimalist shoal draft cruising, ease of maintenance and low cost, she's tough to beat.

[Rigadog]

Black Skimmers seem to be going fast....until a Cal 22 or similar floating bathtub zips right by you. If you race or sail in company with other boats the slowness of the Skimmer becomes painfully apparent. Also they don't point high and are deathly slow to windward. Downwind with both boards up and the main and mizzen wing and wing she will pass a few boats, but not many. A Sailmaster 22 or a Marshall 18' catboat will sail rings around a Black Skimmer, literally. One of the few boats a Black Skimmer will beat on all points is a Munroe Egret, and an H28. Black Skimmer is wide for her length, and has an outside chine which induces eddying, and she's only 21' LWL. The cat yawl rig in not inherantly fast, and the drag from the leeboards doesn't help either. If it's speed you want, a Black Skimmer is not a good choice. But for minimalist shoal draft cruising, ease of maintenance and low cost, she's tough to beat.


Which version of the Egret are you referring to?

[seafox]

Built surf
always loved the tenneessee
wish I could aford to built the wyoming ( or even better the 104 foot double wyoming with a flat top deck for small aircraft to land on
jeff

[Woxbox]

I'm listening to Bolger podcast #1
http://www.furledsails.com/article.php3?article=777

And to quote Mr. Bolger on the Birdwatcher:

"I still think it's the best thing I ever did."

[Lance F. Gunderson]

Which version of the Egret are you referring to?

Two built from the WB plans; one in Rye, N.Y., the other in Key Largo FL. Black Skimmer outsailed both.

[Rigadog]

Two built from the WB plans; one in Rye, N.Y., the other in Key Largo FL. Black Skimmer outsailed both.

I think the WB version is off the mark from the boat Chapelle described and used to create "Dandy" which has a flatter run, as does Reuel Parker's. WB's is a nice design but I can see why it might be slow.

[Lance F. Gunderson]

In the recent Furledsails interview PCB again expresses his admiration for Commodore Munroe's work. Speed is not the only criteria for boat happiness; good looks, uniqueness, functionality, and just liking it for what ever reason are valid. I happen to like the WB Egret a lot, mostly because of her looks...but I'd rather have a Black Skimmer or even better, Skillegalle.

[tonydezoc]

now James be fair, top pic cloudy day, beardy old fellow; bottom pic sunny day bikini babe.

[boatbuddha]

I think his Teal (along with the ol' PDRacer) is just about the best way to get someone on the water cheaply and quickly. I've always been partial to his advanced sharpie designs, although they won't win any beauty contests.

[earling2]

as for Black Skimmer's performance--
I think frequently people have crap sails on these boats. Most of the pictures I've seen of them show a total lack of interest in/knowlege of sail shape. The picture of Mike O'Brien's boat in The Folding Schooner has a very nice looking main. And the boat is cooking. Ditto the pictures on the Nexus website. Beautiful sails.
My Skimmer, with sails I built (I worked for Hood Sails at one time) was faster than a Soling in smooth water, upwind, tack for tack, tacking inside of 90 degrees easily, in around 12 knots, admittedly ideal conditions. This isn't bull****--I'm objective and fairly picky/competitive. I routinely passed 40 foot wooden sloops downwind, and often semi-planed on that point of sail. Went from Edgartown to Mattepoisett one day in just under 4 hours, through Woods Hole. Bad sails will make a barge out of anything. As will a poorly setup snotter. I re-rigged the thing, two part snotter (which has to be played a bit with wind conditions), fatter, stiffer boom than designed, two part downhaul, a bit of a fussbudget about sail shape.. .

In choppy water, upwind, the boat was doggy. Otherwise, nope. not at all. Very satisfying, and competitive in handicap racing.

[john welsford]

I'd argue that your comment that the cat yawl rig is not inherently fast is off the mark. What I would argue is that very few sailmakers seem to understand that the main needs to be quite different in shape and cut to the usual sloop main, and the mizzen has its own set of rules as well. If the sails are appropriate to the rig , and the spacing of the sails and masts is correct the cat yawl rig can perform very very well. Especially if the rules dont allow "extras" like oversized genoas or spinnakers the rig is faster reaching and running than a conventional sloop, and is so close upwind that a little skill can see the sloop off.
I've tried the 3/4 sloop rig against a cat yawl in the same design hulls. The rigs were designed to have the SAME HEELING MOMENT rather than being the same area, and once we began to understand the rig the cat yawl was noticeably quicker around the triangular course than the sloop.

But its different folks, so needs different strokes.

John Welsford


Black Skimmers seem to be going fast....until a Cal 22 or similar floating bathtub zips right by you. If you race or sail in company with other boats the slowness of the Skimmer becomes painfully apparent. Also they don't point high and are deathly slow to windward. Downwind with both boards up and the main and mizzen wing and wing she will pass a few boats, but not many. A Sailmaster 22 or a Marshall 18' catboat will sail rings around a Black Skimmer, literally. One of the few boats a Black Skimmer will beat on all points is a Munroe Egret, and an H28. Black Skimmer is wide for her length, and has an outside chine which induces eddying, and she's only 21' LWL. The cat yawl rig in not inherantly fast, and the drag from the leeboards doesn't help either. If it's speed you want, a Black Skimmer is not a good choice. But for minimalist shoal draft cruising, ease of maintenance and low cost, she's tough to beat.

[oldsub86]

http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Illinois/

[James McMullen]

John Welsford speaketh sooth, methinks. My lugger cat-yawl is remarkably better to windward than I had expected being raised on a diet of all sloop all the time. I just sold my big cruising sloop and once I get around to selling the Fulmar I will be 100% sloop free. Yawls is where it's at, baby!

Mr Welsford, do you mind telling us which design it was that you did your comparison testing with?

[Lance F. Gunderson]

http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Illinois/

Do I detect Suzanne's writing style?

[Michael Wick]

I live where the water is shallow. I have a much loved and much modified Gypsy that has served me very well for many years. I keep her on a dolly on a local lake, ready for instant sailing. In the shallow flats inside Assateague Island, canoeists have complained that I was sailing in water too shallow for their canoes.

[john welsford]

I built a 16 ft lapstrake sided water ballasted open boat way back in about 1985. I'd not long before discovered Phil Bolger and had been corresponding with him about a touring rowing boat. He'd encouraged me to carry on with my own designing and suggested sources of information that would be useful. Help that I'm still grateful for!
I put a rig very much like Black Skimmers on this boat ( there is a picture of Hobo in my book "The Backyard Boatbuilder:) in part because I was on short rations financially so used kevlar and epoxy to turn bamboo into workable spars. This boat went like a jet once I got the spars tuned to the sails, and it took the handicappers two seasons to realise that this construction plywood clapboard sided thing with dark tan sails and too many masts was making hamburger out of most of the dinghy classes. We used to sail her wearing checked lumberjack shirts and would have coffee on the downwind legs just to mess with the other skippers heads! It was great fun!
A freind built one, but could not bring himself to use a rig he could not get his head around, so I drew the sloop rig and we sailed in company quite a lot. He thought that the difference in performance was just me pulling the strings more effectively until we swapped boats and he found he could beat me with the cat yawl, not by as much as I beat him when it was the other way around but enough to prove the rig had some advantages.
Over a couple of seasons we chopped and changed the sails and altered the amount of flex in the masts and learned a great deal which has been part of the "professional experience" which has gone into several cat yawl rigged designs since.
When I sold that boat, I took the new owner out sailing. I put the tiller on the deck and using sail trim and movement of crew weight sailed the boat in a series of figure eights upwind, then down, then across the wind and then put the tiller back in the rudder stock. I thought that I'd been pretty clever, but the turkey did not know enough to appreciate what had just been achieved which took the edge of it a bit.
By the way, back to this thread, I built an "Amesbury Skiff Mippett" way back, used it as a tender for my 22 footer, lovely little boat!
My favourite Bolger Design depends upon what mood I'm in, I've sailed quite a few, but think that overall Red Zinger is close to the top of my list. Note that there are a couple of telling remarks about the Cat Yawl rig in his description of that boat in his book.
JohnWelsford


John Welsford speaketh sooth, methinks. My lugger cat-yawl is remarkably better to windward than I had expected being raised on a diet of all sloop all the time. I just sold my big cruising sloop and once I get around to selling the Fulmar I will be 100% sloop free. Yawls is where it's at, baby!

Mr Welsford, do you mind telling us which design it was that you did your comparison testing with?

[Woxbox]

Red Zinger has always amazed me at how much useful and comfortable space can be fit into a 26-foot boat. It answers a lot of design briefs proffered around here. An interesting comparison might be with the 26-foot Norwalk Island Sharpie. The two ought to have a similar sense of space and livability, but the Red Zinger is way ahead, with the space divided into two cabins, ability to really sleep four adults, including a huge double, and a centerboard that doesn't intrude at all.

I wonder how the two would compare in performance?

Details here, page 333:
http://books.google.com/books?id=vBQjV3NZ6LwC&pg=PA333&lpg=PA333&dq=red+zinger+boat&source=bl&ots=GDql-gy2pV&sig=WPXIK2Qg1j68venabkPHsOR59bU&hl=en&ei=q6wxSs_cDsGGtgffx7CtCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#PPA333,M1

[B. Parkes]

I always wondered if Red Zinger might be a little bit tender, given how narrow the boat is at the waterline beam. I've never made a comparison with the NIS 26 though.

[MiddleAgesMan]

http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Illinois/

Illinois is the design that got me interested in plywood boats. It was to be my retirement "home" but it just doesn't make any sense anymore what with the cost of building such a large vessel with quality materials.

In his usual manner of speaking the truth Bolger introduces Illinois as a 63 foot "residence." :)

[john welsford]

Its a shape that will carry a lot of ballast in the bottom ,and which will sail well at quite a large angle of heel, same applies to the Norwalk Island Sharpie series. I prefer the narrower flat bottom and immersed forefoot of Red Zinger, motoring will be much more comfortable, and being at anchor in a chop infinitely more so. The sailing qualities should be ok although my own experience suggests that that style of shape will work well at much wider beam to length ratios as long as the bottom panel stays within the 6/1 beam length ratio that Chapelle said was optimum for flat bottomed sharpies.
I've been out as far as 2.2/1 overall but try to keep the bottom panel narrow.
My impression of Bolgers home waters is that a lot of the sailing is done in relatively light conditions, and it could be that here in NZ where a summer afternoon will frequently see 30 knots plus Red Zinger as designed would spend a lot of time well reefed.

JohnW



I always wondered if Red Zinger might be a little bit tender, given how narrow the boat is at the waterline beam. I've never made a comparison with the NIS 26 though.

[MountainMan]

I love the FMS (fast motorsailer) and would love to build one for myself. I have seen scant evidence on the net of builds/plans. Anyone know more about this ingenious design? Does the Bolger & Friends clan still even sell plans?

[Lance F. Gunderson]

I love the FMS (fast motorsailer) and would love to build one for myself. I have seen scant evidence on the net of builds/plans. Anyone know more about this ingenious design? Does the Bolger & Friends clan still even sell plans?

Suzanne Altenburger continues the business at the same address, 66 Atlantic St in Gloucester. Plans should be available from her.

[pippo]

I love many of Bolger's designs, but my favourite ones are Micro, Black Skimmer and Le Dulci-Mer.

[Dave Wright]

I love the FMS (fast motorsailer) and would love to build one for myself. I have seen scant evidence on the net of builds/plans. Anyone know more about this ingenious design? Does the Bolger & Friends clan still even sell plans?

Check out Bill Mckibben's version of the original fast motorsailer, "Ada":

http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/mckib/Page.html

This gentlemen has built some Bolgrt boats!

[Dave Wright]

This is probably the FMS you had in mind:

http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/fms.htm

I like the original better.

[spirit]

A lot of the attractiveness of Bolger's designs and comments for all of us derived from his willingness to depart from convention, and to try things new. Because of this, it I find it hard to choose favorites. I learned something from each of his very varied designs, even those that were not "pretty" or "elegant" or handsomely done.

[huisjen]

For me, "Sir John Banks", the junk rig steel hull sharpie designed as a low cost south seas freighter.

Dan

[Dick Wynne]

http://www.eastcoastclassics.co.uk/points3.jpg

On the UK East Coast this boat, CROW, derived I think from Bolger's MOCCASIN, wiped the floor with the Old gaffers competition until (as I now expect) its handicap was 'sorted'. Carbon fibre spars, mast counterweighted in a tabernacle using a foredeck slot like a Broads yacht. From the Old Gaffers' website:

Her cold molded centreboard hull needs but two feet of water to float her 34 feet length, her mizzen rotates to furl around the carbon fibre mast. her foresail is self acting. And she sails “Back to the Fuure”, so fast is she- no wonder she is called “Stealth”, not a ripple on the water as she almost dematerialises with speed to the front of the fleet.

[P.L.Lenihan]

http://www.eastcoastclassics.co.uk/points3.jpg

On the UK East Coast this boat, CROW, derived I think from Bolger's MOCCASIN, wiped the floor with the Old gaffers competition until (as I now expect) its handicap was 'sorted'. Carbon fibre spars, mast counterweighted in a tabernacle using a foredeck slot like a Broads yacht. From the Old Gaffers' website:

Her cold molded centreboard hull needs but two feet of water to float her 34 feet length, her mizzen rotates to furl around the carbon fibre mast. her foresail is self acting. And she sails “Back to the Fuure”, so fast is she- no wonder she is called “Stealth”, not a ripple on the water as she almost dematerialises with speed to the front of the fleet.


Something about that hull leaves me thinking this is a Palo de Agua instead of a Moccasin,namely the stem which is "clipper shaped" on Moccassin and the fact that Moccasin comes in at 39'6" VS Palo de Agua at 35'4",which sounds closer to the "34 feet length" from above. Also Palo de Agua was designed as a gaffed rigged cat,unlike Moccasin. Mind you, the rudder looks like Moccasins' and it would be no big trick to add a mizzen to Palo de Agua......hmmmm,wonder,wonder and wonder some more:)


Peter

[Lance F. Gunderson]

In the recent Furledsails interview PCB mentions a book on pulling boats that is in the works. I for one hope that book gets published, as PCB designed some excellent pulling boats over his long career and I suspect there are many who would like to refrance them under one cover. PCB was an enthusiastic rower with vast experience, such as few have today. His ideas on rowing deserve to be better known. I think of his Defender, Spur ll, the Light Dory variants, the Ocean Rowing Project in his book Small Boats, and several interesting pulling boats I saw in MAIB over the years but never saw anywhere else. I wonder what's hidden in the archive? What's your favorite Bolger pulling boat?

[dredbob]

Something about that hull leaves me thinking this is a Palo de Agua instead of a Moccasin,namely the stem which is "clipper shaped" on Moccassin and the fact that Moccasin comes in at 39'6" VS Palo de Agua at 35'4",which sounds closer to the "34 feet length" from above. Also Palo de Agua was designed as a gaffed rigged cat,unlike Moccasin. Mind you, the rudder looks like Moccasins' and it would be no big trick to add a mizzen to Palo de Agua......hmmmm,wonder,wonder and wonder some more:)

No, it is derived from Moccasin, there was an article about the boat in the British magazine WaterCraft about a year or so ago. The guy basically just used the hull lines straight from the book, and modified the rest to suit himself. It's actually a pretty nice looking boat, inside and out. But Phil, when shown pictures and offered a chance to comment for the article, said, as he usually did about modified designs, that it was not his design, and therefore had no comment on it.

Bob

[P.L.Lenihan]

Thanks for the clarification Bob! I always liked they way Phil would politely brush off folks who had "re-designed" one of his designs,often claiming it to be an improvement:)

Cheers!


Peter

[fellswoop76]

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs126.snc3/17343_1209947894491_1402532162_30547381_6317576_n. jpg

not necessarily fav. just fit on Bolger theme...

[Nicholas Scheuer]

My favs are the two I've spent the most time with, Dovekie (12 yrs) and Shearwater (14 Yrs).

Two power boats I like a lot are Blackbird and Snow Leopard.

Moby Nick

[Steve Paskey]

... What's your favorite Bolger pulling boat?

I've long been intrigued by his little Amesbury Skiff "Mippet," as shown in Small Boats. 9-1/2 feet long, with a narrow flat bottom and 3 planks to a side. Bolger wrote:


... she is certainly a much safer and drier proposition than the usual tiny blunt-bowed dinghy for, say, three adults maximum. With a single man, or a woman and two small children, or some such load, she will live in a really terrifying sea if the oarsman has some idea of what he (or she) is about.

Also, with a reasonable load, she is a pleasant boat to row as long as you don't try to row her fast. She's too short for that, but using a short, quick stroke she can be kept moving very nicely at three miles an hour or so. I once covered over a hundred miles in four days in a boat nowhere near as good, in smooth water and with some help from a fair stream, it's true.

[Lance F. Gunderson]

Right on Steve! Bolger's Defender is another good one; I saw the prototype at the Tribute last September and she's even better in person. I hope Suzanne will publish a little book of all his rowing designs, some of which I think are among the very best. Very few people even know they existed.

[DGentry]

Mippet will be the next dink I build, or at least that's been my plan for a while now (I just need an excuse!).

Spur 2 is on my list, as well:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/28/44190874_6cbcea3e99_o.jpg

Love the Gloucester Gull, too, of course.

Lance - you say you've sailed on Bolger's Africa? I'm intrigued to hear your impressions! And, for that matter, your impressions of any of the other uncommon Bolger boats you've experienced! Any pics would be great, too . . . .

I also look forward to any and all new Bolger books!

Dave Gentry

[James McMullen]

Dave, Tom Fulk built a Spur II last year, so if'n you ever come out to visit this area again some time, you can try one out.

[Steve Paskey]

Dave, Tom Fulk built a Spur II last year, so if'n you ever come out to visit this area again some time, you can try one out.

Have you had a chance to try it yourself, James? Given your experience, I'd be very interested in your impressions.

[hokiefan]

Gypsy. Was in the first boatbuilding book I picked up. In general liked the design, especially the hull. Looked through it a few times and said, yeah, I could do that. Even then wanted to change a few things, isn't that always the way? But its the first design that got me thinking and dreaming about actually cutting wood. So it still has a special place.

Cheers,

Bobby

[James McMullen]

Okay, got some pics of Tom Fulk's new Spur II uploaded:

http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/43676/2546042380088484686S500x500Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2546042380088484686eoyTRR) http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/45039/2019792300088484686S500x500Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2019792300088484686BNrggI)

Those two were the best angles. But from this view, my eye balks at what seems to me to be a too-plumb transom and a hesitant sheerline forward.

http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/45827/2407471910088484686S500x500Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2407471910088484686JjIKIh)

Steve, alas, but I have not been out for a row in her myself yet, as it got too cold too soon after he finished her for anybody to much enjoy going for a row. Now that spring is headed our way, it's definitely on my list of things to do. There's other new boats to try here; another local fellow who is finishing an Oughtred Acorn 15, a guy who built a Cosine Wherry, and yet another club who built a 14' Hylan Peapod are all here in Anacortes, so I'm pretty sure we're going to have a big rowboat messabout here sooner rather than later. Rowing 'em all side by side by side should be awfully interesting.

I will, of course, take lotsa pictures. :D

[Lance F. Gunderson]

Mippet will be the next dink I build, or at least that's been my plan for a while now (I just need an excuse!).

Spur 2 is on my list, as well:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/28/44190874_6cbcea3e99_o.jpg

Love the Gloucester Gull, too, of course.

Lance - you say you've sailed on Bolger's Africa? I'm intrigued to hear your impressions! And, for that matter, your impressions of any of the other uncommon Bolger boats you've experienced! Any pics would be great, too . . . .

I also look forward to any and all new Bolger books!

Dave Gentry


Africa came into Pepperrell Cove once around 1980 or so. She was under the command of the owner after Brad Story. I rowed over in my Gloucester Gull dory and got invited aboard, and later for a sail; it was SW, 10-15, sunny and warm. She was cutter rigged then and Brad had installed hefty running backstays in hope of tightening the jib luff, but we didn't use them and IMO didn't need them. I thought she sailed wonderfully on all points and was fast, especially at acceleration in a puff. As you might expect she was slow in stays and at times a foresail needed to be backed in order to get her around smoothly. Of course without a keel she made leeway but I hardly noticed it at all, her speed more than compensating, but in a lee shore gale situation she might need her engine to escape. She had a hefty Westerbecke deisel. The helmsman's position was especially appealing, comfortable and affording an unimpeded view forward. The helm was well balanced and light and she was a delight to steer...except when in irons as noted above. She did have a rather wide turning radius, but not as bad as my Black Skimmer. I think she was the prettiest boat Bolger ever designed ( some of her details were Brad's); she was painted light gray with red bottom paint and varnished house and spars, all in Bristol condition then. Below she had cedar ceiling and knotty pine paneling, very attractive and comfortable for me despite the lack of full headroom. She was very simply fitted out in the Herreshoff cruising tradition. I was so taken with her that I offered to buy her should the new owner decide to sell. He had just purchased her and was on his first cruise. I gave him my info but never heard a word. I heard a rumor that someone, maybe Bolger himself, talked the owner into cutting her in half and lengthening her, and going to schooner rig. That would have been a disaster IMO, but I suspect it was done as I've never seen her again, and I get around. I think she was a really great boat as originally designed. I'd like to know what Brad Story's impressions were.

[Steve Paskey]

But from this view, my eye balks at what seems to me to be a too-plumb transom and a hesitant sheerline forward.

I'm looking at the drawings of Spur II in Boats with an Open Mind, and the transom is dead plumb vertical. Perhaps he was trying to get the longest waterline possible from the length of two sheets of ply?

[perldog007]

#140 type VI.

[Captain Blight]

I'm looking at the drawings of Spur II in Boats with an Open Mind, and the transom is dead plumb vertical. Perhaps he was trying to get the longest waterline possible from the length of two sheets of ply?
Perhaps; perhaps drawing from the lineage of jolly-boats and cutters and gigs, many of which had remarkably flat sheers.

I think she looks champion as-is, though for my own outsized backside, I'd want to think about another strake's worth of freeboard.

Dan, I'll second you on the Banks. Beautiful ship.

[Wild Dingo]

Only one Bolger design... St Valery Luggar :cool:

[Mike Vogdes]

My favorite Bolger design, is now and always was the 31' Egg Harbor...
Unfortunately you don't any of them anymore.

[DGentry]

Thanks, Lance, for your report on Bolger's Africa! I've always wondered.
You say you've sailed Red Zinger and Dakini, too . . . .?

[Gerarddm]

Yarrow. I built a scratch built model of her. Some day I may even build her 1:1. Just lovely.

[Newby]

I have the good fortune to be the new owner of Red Zinger, which has long been my favorite Bolger design. I also love his Nymph, and Cartopper, as well as the Dovekie and Shearwater.

[amish rob]

As impossible as choosing a favorite book, album, or tool. Like picking a favorite dog, or gun, or fishing rod.
The man drew some crazy boats and some gorgeous boats, and every type of boat in between; as simple or complicated as you like, practically. He was also an interesting writer/storyteller.
I'm finishing a cartopper for a weirdo and her sheerline is as nice as any I've seen. Not my favorite, though.

[Woxbox]

Newby, I've long admired Red Zinger. Among other things, looks like she has a very sensible interior layout that gets the absolute most use out of a hull that size. Any sailing reports to offer? Photos?

[Joe Dupere]

I've always liked his Monhegan design, the 18' Friendship Sloop. I considered buying the plans and still have some letters back and forth between the two of us. Never did buy it, at the time I think it was beyond my building skills. Still like the looks of it though.

Joe, FFPoP

[Lance F. Gunderson]

A fellow named Ahearn in the Boston area made some fiberglass hulls for the 18' Monhegan design back in the early '80's; G. A. Patten of Kittery finished one off very nicely, and it sailed on the Piscataqua for several years. I admired it, and it's sailing ability. Perhaps the Friendship Sloop Society knows where it or a sister ship is.

[Newby]

Newby, I've long admired Red Zinger. Among other things, looks like she has a very sensible interior layout that gets the absolute most use out of a hull that size. Any sailing reports to offer? Photos?
Woxbox,
Will get photos posted soon. Bought the boat from Silas Yates two years ago(he purchased her from Richard Zaph, aka The Amazing Dr. Z, who built her), after admiring the boat for years (I also own a Shearwater, which is the next best thing).
My wife and I sail Zinger on Penobscot Bay. (Article on first cruise for us appeared in Messing About in Boats a couple of months ago) You are correct about her accomodations...very useful and spacious. Compared to my Shearwater, she is quite fast, but more tender...likes a reef tucked in pretty early. She now has a wishbone rather than the original sprit, which works well. Very easy boat to sail, and very quick in light air.
I'm new to Woodenboat forum, and like it very much. Does anyone have experience with building a wooden wishbone?

[Newby]

Its a shape that will carry a lot of ballast in the bottom ,and which will sail well at quite a large angle of heel, same applies to the Norwalk Island Sharpie series. I prefer the narrower flat bottom and immersed forefoot of Red Zinger, motoring will be much more comfortable, and being at anchor in a chop infinitely more so. The sailing qualities should be ok although my own experience suggests that that style of shape will work well at much wider beam to length ratios as long as the bottom panel stays within the 6/1 beam length ratio that Chapelle said was optimum for flat bottomed sharpies.
I've been out as far as 2.2/1 overall but try to keep the bottom panel narrow.
My impression of Bolgers home waters is that a lot of the sailing is done in relatively light conditions, and it could be that here in NZ where a summer afternoon will frequently see 30 knots plus Red Zinger as designed would spend a lot of time well reefed.

JohnW
I only have a few weeks sailing on Zinger, in Maine, but my initial impression is that she is a bit tender and likes to be reefed relatively early, although she firms up nicely when the chine gets in the water.
Overall I'm very pleased with her speed and ease of handling.

[perldog007]

Some very good nominations here, but to me PCB was known as a" temple defiler" for his shockingly square and simple to construct boats while also turning out some real classic beauties. The one that brings it all into one design ( in my warped mind anyway ) is still #140 type VI the Gloucester Light Dory.

Not too much harder than a Brick to build but much easier for many to look at. Both 'sides' of Bolger, the beauty and the beast in one design.

http://img.freebase.com/api/trans/image_thumb/wikipedia/images/commons_id/352442?maxheight=510&mode=fit&maxwidth=510

[trefor]

My favorite is the Elegant Punt. Not for it's looks or complexity, but because it is easy, cheap and I've got one sitting in my garage right now. It's been my gateway to the worlds of boat building and sailing this year. It easily fits on my car roof and I've had it on the water about a half dozen times in the past month and a half. It's been an absolute blast to run home and throw on the car for a couple hours of evening sailing or spend a whole Saturday or Sunday out getting sunburned.

There are plenty of others I have more than a passing interest in and I can't wait to try my hand at constructing them.

-Trevor

[Reef_Kringle]

Master Hand and Prancing Pony. Not his most experimental or unusual designs, but truly beautiful.

[LenD.]

Me too = lapstrake Chebacco
Grey seal my fav ,Ian Oth.

[DGentry]

Of course I've already stated my preferences, but I just re-read an older article about Bolger's Romp - one of my favs - with some nice pics. This Australian version has an engine.

Page 4 . . . http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/papers/tcp22.pdf

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/alias1719/Romp.jpg

[WX]

So no real comments about the St Valery? I have only come across this boat a few days ago and I really like it.

[FrugalMan]

My choice is David D. Hume - Phil. Bolger's Blueberry

http://blue-dane.org/bolger/blueberry.jpg

[WHYankee]

Another Black Skimmer fan here. Phil told me he was disapointed with the rudder arrangement on her, but every boat is a compromise and she's captured my heart.

[Lance F. Gunderson]

Another Black Skimmer fan here. Phil told me he was disapointed with the rudder arrangement on her, but every boat is a compromise and she's captured my heart.

PCB's original design sketch for Mike O'Brian showed two rudders! The design as published is a dramatic improvement over that. I'm happy with the rudder on my Black Skimmer.

[Chip-skiff]

The Gloucester Light Dory is such a beaut!

But my wife is my favorite woman and my Gypsy is my favorite Bolger boat:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XAqLuU8H28k/TL5tWQKa91I/AAAAAAAAA2w/FDv55WMSbOA/aWBM2.jpg

D. Gentry photo

[gilberj]

As far as Cat Yawls are concerned, I second the comments of others with experience above. My main Cat Yawl time was in Descant an LFH 21 foot Cat Yawl, built by my Father. I was in my late teens and contributed a lot to the lofting and lead keel design prior to going off to college (LFH did not finish the design, really only did the lines and sailplan). Descant was fairly fast on all points. We normally tacked through 90 degrees or so and could hold our own with similar sized boats short of real racing sleds. I remember a November crossing of the Strait of Georgia, close reach nearly all the way, 20 + knots of wind. A J24, started about the same time as we did and passed through Porlier Pass about 20 minutes ahead of us, almost 20 nm from Spanish Banks. I'll bet the guys on the other boat did not have hot, home made soup (completely prepared on board) and sandwiches while crossing.
Descant having a long relatively shallow keel pretty much all aft could not be swung around by pushing the mizzen to one side as other Cat Yawls can. we could sail backwards but one had to be careful. Running downwind once into Ganges with my sons we had a timed run between two points average 8 knots with a 18' 6" waterline. We rounded to and backed between the floats and sailed into a marina slip, with witnesses.....
I know this is not Bolger and apologise, but questions of Cat Yawls ability.......

[earling2]

After my Skimmer, cat yawl is my favorite rig, hands down. That is, unstayed, sprit-boomed cat yawl rigs. Very soft sails (never any unnerving luffing sounds), nothing to bang you in the head, self vanging, infinitely adjustable snotter w/two part gear led aft to the cabin edge, about waist height, unstayed spars so no standing rigging... All that and very close winded and amazingly docile downwind. The only problem being awkward reefing. I never did reef often enough to figure that part out.

[Michael Wick]

I've had a Gypsy for ten years, now, and she is a wonderful boat. I use her weekly. Mike

[Chip-skiff]

I've had a Gypsy for ten years, now, and she is a wonderful boat. I use her weekly. Mike

I'm keen on Gypsies. Could you post a photo?

[DutchProf]

Never saw a Burgundy. But studied it for several zillion hours . . .

I have a feeling if I spent a weekend gunkholing in a Birdwatcher, I'd probably put that in the Best Of list, too, though they're kind of hard to love, visually

Burgundy has visual appeal as it tries to equal Rozinante. Spoke w Bolger about this design: He didn't like my thought to put a teak veneer deck on."I never thought of putting more than canvas on her".... I've spent many hours building a Burgundy Hull. Deck is on, cabin finished out. You are right, there aren't many of them out there, that I have found. If anyone knows of one I would love to hear about it - get some more ideas as this project comes together. Great design!

[brucehallman]

Burgundy has visual appeal as it tries to equal Rozinante. Spoke w Bolger about this design: He didn't like my thought to put a teak veneer deck on."I never thought of putting more than canvas on her".... I've spent many hours building a Burgundy Hull. Deck is on, cabin finished out. You are right, there aren't many of them out there, that I have found. If anyone knows of one I would love to hear about it - get some more ideas as this project comes together. Great design!

I am unaware of one ever being built.

http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2323948335/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2123/2323948335_68d1054dc5.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2123/2323948335_68d1054dc5.jpg

[earling2]

Burgundy has visual appeal as it tries to equal Rozinante. Spoke w Bolger about this design: He didn't like my thought to put a teak veneer deck on."I never thought of putting more than canvas on her".... I've spent many hours building a Burgundy Hull. Deck is on, cabin finished out. You are right, there aren't many of them out there, that I have found. If anyone knows of one I would love to hear about it - get some more ideas as this project comes together. Great design!

Photos? I'd love to see one, I've been interested in building one for a long time now

[WHYankee]

I'm very partial to the Black Skimmer, but Phil was not. He actually talked me out of building one. That may have been the only bad advice he ever gave me and as time goes on certainly the one I wish I had ignored. Too late now...

[I Bin Therbefor]

Topaz Spyder. I like the "launch" type boats circa 1930s. This hull-look combination is about perfect for me. Origanlly designed as a day boat for L.I. Sound, she should have some good sea keeping abilities.

[DutchProf]

Photos? I'd love to see one, I've been interested in building one for a long time now

I have uploaded two older pictures - admittedly not the greatest views - will try to get some new ones - trying to attach them here but is only showing the

Burgundy I.jpg

205.3 KB
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/exclamation.png
Burgundy II.jpg

267.8 KB

[Paul Pless]

I have uploaded two older pictures - admittedly not the greatest views - will try to get some new ones - trying to attach them here but is only showing the

Burgundy I.jpg

205.3 KB
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/exclamation.png
Burgundy II.jpg

267.8 KB

You can't upload directly to the forum. You need to upload them to photobucket then link them to this forum. I'd like to those photos too. . .

[Bobcat]

I have always wanted to sail the single handed schooner, "his and her schooner" in Boats with an Open Mind

[upchurchmr]

Folding Schooner is my favorite, I've drooled over the study plans for a long time.
But, with this thread I finally realize I have not seen most of the boats discussed.
Does anyone know where there is a site with all the plans and pictures of all the boats, not specifically someones adaptations but the original?

I became alergic to the square cheap boats at an early time and simply did not realize his other more conventional boats even existed.

John Welsfords comments about the original Gaff rigged boats beating a sloop were very interesting but at odds with my assumptions

[wardd]

as-39

[earling2]

Folding Schooner is my favorite, I've drooled over the study plans for a long time.
But, with this thread I finally realize I have not seen most of the boats discussed.
I became alergic to the square cheap boats at an early time and simply did not realize his other more conventional boats even existed.

Bolger earlier books are full of really graceful boats that are reinterpretations of classic concepts, usually improvements. If I were looking for almost any boat "type" (catboat, schooner, barge, shoal draft) I wold almost certainly pick his version to build. I always felt bad for the guy that everybody obsesses over his square cheap boats... I think he sold himself short a little, or at least his reputation suffered, not that he apparently cared or that it was any of my business . .

[Chip-skiff]

The Gloucester Light Dory is such a beaut!

But my wife is my favorite woman and my Gypsy is my favorite Bolger boat:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XAqLuU8H28k/TL5tWQKa91I/AAAAAAAAA2w/FDv55WMSbOA/aWBM2.jpg

D. Gentry photo

Built a balance-lug rig for the darling boat, which is an improvement over the leg-of-mutton setup:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-hnKABxlyc_g/ToJAjUdt-GI/AAAAAAAABls/yZg8iR-DcOs/fallsail2.jpg

[Tom Painter]

Bolger earlier books are full of really graceful boats that are reinterpretations of classic concepts, usually improvements. If I were looking for almost any boat "type" (catboat, schooner, barge, shoal draft) I wold almost certainly pick his version to build. I always felt bad for the guy that everybody obsesses over his square cheap boats... I think he sold himself short a little, or at least his reputation suffered, not that he apparently cared or that it was any of my business . .


I get the feeling that Bolger reveled in the controversy his box boats stirred up. It's hard to stay mad at a Micro. They're pretty cute. Maybe even a "classic." Oh how dare I!


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jgdV15pT4cY/TdiB1wK-yBI/AAAAAAAAANs/X_VKHSXmuLw/s1600/cricket4.jpg

[DGentry]

But, with this thread I finally realize I have not seen most of the boats discussed . . .

Unfortunate, but true, I think only one person on the planet has a handle on all the boats Mr. Bolger designed. He drew some 650+ boats IIRC, and the various books cover only 170 of those. Other than CSD and Mr. Payson's offerings, and the cartoons/articles in MAIB et al., hundreds of other Bolger designs are utter mysteries to almost everyone other than Ms Altenburger.

I, for one, would pay plenty for a well illustrated catalogue of his full portfolio!

[stephenlneal]

I corresponded with Mr. Bolger about Yonder. He sent me the article he wrote which describes her in depth...I thing I've read through that nearly 50 times. But I'm a luthier who has studied boat building all my life, have plenty of skill but cannot afford the dream. Phil said that Yonder would fulfill an old man's dreams. I concur.

Second would be the Japanese Beach Cruiser. A brilliant very large 12 ft cruising cat yawl!
I will build her!

[brucehallman]

I, for one, would pay plenty for a well illustrated catalogue of his full portfolio!

Lacking this catalog, a good substitute is to read all those old magazine articles. I forget the exact number, (but doing some math now) I figure 500 articles were published and illustrated in the magazine Messing About in Boats. Certainly not covering all his boats, (I don' think he wrote about some he did not think were good, and a decent number were done on confidential commissions), but he does describe most, a large majority, of his boat designs in those articles. There were also the 70+/- articles published in Small Boat Journal, though most of those SBJ articles were later republished as the book Boats With an Open Mind, still in print. For comparison, if the MAIB articles were put in book form, that would be five more books. I have a nearly complete collection of these magazines, and they weigh a ton and take a whole large shelf to store.

[gstanfield]

I'll toss in my vote for the sneakeasy. I'll be building one myself this winter.

George

[Paul Pless]

I, for one, would pay plenty for a well illustrated catalogue of his full portfolio!Susanne Altenberger did mention that this was one potential project for her in the future.

[earling2]

Susanne Altenberger did mention that this was one potential project for her in the future.

I spoke to Bolger at the '07 wooden boat show and he said a comprehensive book was in the works. No telling how far derailed that is at this point.

I too am interested in Red Zinger. I think I need to see one in the flesh to figure out just how interested. As for favorites, though, I can't possibly pick one but I'd like to see a Palo D'Agua and a Japanese Beach Cruiser and a Nahant and a Harbinger up close... and about a dozen others.

[James McMullen]

I'd totally buy a collected anthology of just his Messing About in Boats articles. They did it for Robb White's column, didn't they?

Maybe that's a project that you could take on, Bruce? I betcha both Suzanne and Bob Hicks would be supportive of someone else doing some of the grunt work if they could get their fair cut. It seems like it would be a fair amount of scanning and collating, but it wouldn't have to be a slick and glossy publication, not at all. In fact, that might even be a little contrary to the whole spirit. I'd love to see something like this come together.

[brucehallman]

...it wouldn't have to be a slick and glossy publication, not at all.

That is easy to say, but... The person deciding this is PCB's heir, and based on my observations during the PCB memorial I am quite sure that SA feels that any posthumous book would need to be carefully done and serve as an appropriate tribute to a great man. (Witness the care she took designing and commissioning PCB's memorial stone.) Maybe not 'slick and glossy', but certainly it would need to be precise, careful and thoughtful. (And, those three qualities take time and are not easily delegated.)

[earling2]

I find it frustrating that there are several designs that are kind of like the nautical equivalent of Bigfoot.... you hear rumors, you see a blurry photo or a cartoon. That one double ended sort of instant Dovekie, Sandy something or other; I'd love to see details of that one. That's just one example. That instant cat yawl, Jinni, I think--that looks pretty intriguing. I'd love to see a Summer Breeze up close, or at least pictures. There's a monster-sized body of work that nobody knows much of anything about. The various versions of Seabird '86--there's one documented on a now-aging website, but that's about all there is. etc etc.

[earling2]

I get the feeling that Bolger reveled in the controversy his box boats stirred up. It's hard to stay mad at a Micro. They're pretty cute. Maybe even a "classic." Oh how dare I!

I'm sure you're right about that... if he didn't relish being the cranky old libertarian he wouldn't have filled the world with Bolger Boxes. I think his creative bent, plus years of marginalization at the hands of the straight-laced society NAs, pissed him off enough that he finally let his freak flag fly, and started to operate more in the mold of the seat-of-the-pants empirical inventor types he loved, like his grandfather (?just guessing) and C. Raymond Hunt, for example. It didn't hurt that he was brilliant at those boxes.

[T. Traddles]

Summer's Ease


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWqcp4v78U8&feature=player_embedded

[earling2]

thanks T. Raddles...
That looks like it would be an excellent camp cruiser.
Wondering about that rig though--mainsail tack looks too high by about a foot, mizzen's probably supposed to be sprit boomed if I remember right

[James McMullen]

Well, the problem with a sprit-boomed yawl mizzen is that this set-up makes it even more unhandy to reef than it already is. But since the mizzen is more usually than not set pretty much close hauled, the sheet keeps it down and makes any need for a vang mostly irrelevant. For the fores'l, the sprit boom is much more appropriate and more useful. From my perspective, I think that the Summer's Ease in the video is set up just about right for a small single-hander.

[brucehallman]

Boxes.

Remind me again why these are called boxes? When I look at the lineage of historical boat design that preceded Bolger, I see that hard chined boats (especially in New England) were popular & successful. Very much a "traditional" history in these boats. New Haven sharpies, for instance. Or, all those hard chined Grand Banks dories.

Why are not all hard chined boats called 'boxes'?

The biggest difference I can see is the high freeboard in the typical Bolger sharpie. Freeboard which makes the Bolger 'advanced' sharpie much more sea worthy (hard to flood) than the low freeboard sharpies (subject to swamping). And, the 'high freeboard' idea is not original to Bolger, as that idea has precedence in traditional lifeboats.

Probably the real reason is the vertical sides. It is helpful to remember that the biggest reason for the canted sides of 'traditional' sharpies and dories was to take advantage of the economics of bending a straight plank back when the only wood available was sawn wood planks. (No longer an issue in an era of plywood.) Hydro-dynamically, there is negligible difference that I can see.

[earling2]

Some of his boat ARE boxes. Summer Ease has a V-bow and a nice sheer. That one's pretty graceful. I'm no Bolger-basher, I'm a Bolger revisionist. I just want people to pay attention to the guy's more traditional stuff rather than the over-exposed Micro, etc. I've got nothing against any of them. So my short answer would be, a traditional sharpie is visually a far cry from a Jesse Cooper. Yeah, they both have flat bottoms. That's about it. Martha Jane on the other hand is one that's a genius synthesis of everything he knew about sharpies, and it even looks "right" somehow, despite having no discernible shape. I was interested in Summer Ease because it looked really attractive in the Messing About cartoon I saw years ago, and I would classify that one more in the Black Skimmer category--boxes that look reasonably nice to almost anyone, not just function purists. Not exactly in the class of an Egret or a traditional New Haven sharpie, but pretty great considering the utility and performance that he wrings out of a simple shape.

I fully admire that even some of his less attractive "boxes" work great. As I said, I'm a big fan in general. My favorite all time boat to sail was my Black Skimmer. Does that make me a hypocrite? No, but I built that boat knowing it would be hard for some of the locals to swallow (Nat Benjamin: "a boat with corners," smirk smirk) and I still wouldn't go so far as to say it's beautiful, but considering it's advantages and performance, totally brilliant.

Unfortunately it's about ten times harder to build, say, a Prince William Sound Yawl than a Windsprint, so you'll probably never see one. And the conflation of "Phil Bolger" and boats like "Brick" will go on and on . . .

[Steve Paskey]

Remind me again why these are called boxes? ...

Probably the real reason is the vertical sides. It is helpful to remember that the biggest reason for the canted sides of 'traditional' sharpies and dories was to take advantage of the economics of bending a straight plank back when the only wood available was sawn wood planks. (No longer an issue in an era of plywood.) Hydro-dynamically, there is negligible difference that I can see.

No, it's not about the wood. And yes, the reason is the vertical sides.

If you can bend a sawn plank to the curve on a traditional New Haven sharpie, you can certainly bend it to match the curve on one of Bolger's "box" boats.

As for the hydrodynamics... I'm certainly no expert, but it seems to me that there is a very distinct difference. Consider, for instance, the Gloucester Light Dory ... You have a narrow bottom with a wider beam, and the boat picks up stability as it heels. A box boat with vertical sides will NEVER be a fast or capable a rowboat as the GLD. On a beamier boat designed for sailing the difference is less noticeable, but there is still a difference.

Leaving all that aside, the complex shape of any traditional boat -- even a hard-chined boat -- is more visually appealing than the vertical sides of a Bolger "box." If that doesn't matter to you, then wear the label with pride -- but a box is a box is a box, and a boat with 90-degree chines and vertical sides is most definitely a "box," even if it sails just as well as a more complex shape.

[Tom Painter]

Some of his boat ARE boxes. Summer Ease has a V-bow and a nice sheer. That one's pretty graceful. I'm no Bolger-basher, I'm a Bolger revisionist. I just want people to pay attention to the guy's more traditional stuff rather than the over-exposed Micro, etc. I've got nothing against any of them.

That's a point well taken. Excluding all of Bolger's box boats and designs simplified for the home builder, there are literally hundreds of other more or less traditional designs very worthy of wider appreciation. I had the good fortune to see a Harbinger when one was built at the Apprenticeshop. It doesn't look all that spectacular on 2d plans, but in real life it was really stunning.

My appreciation for his simplified designs stems from my several years of working on multi-million dollar floating mcmansions where the owners were only interested in impressing their top .005% friends rather than having anything even remotely to do with a "Compleat Cruiser" experience. The box boat is the anti-yacht, something anyone could afford building and using....and have a good deal of fun for not too much money or time invested.

[Steve Paskey]

From the Free dictionary:

BOX: "A container typically constructed with four sides perpendicular to the base."

The key word, of course, is "perpendicular." At any cross-section on a Bolger "box" boat, the sides are perpendicular to the bottom. The "box" boat label fits perfectly, and it doesn't apply to earlier designs.

[brucehallman]

No, it's not about the wood. And yes, the reason is the vertical sides.

[QUOTE=Steve Paskey;3144125]If you can bend a sawn plank to the curve on a traditional New Haven sharpie, you can certainly bend it to match the curve on one of Bolger's "box" boats.

I have tried this in the real world, and found that actually you can't. The angle of the cant of the sides of the New Haven sharpie is critical to whether straight planks work. Change the cant angle, and straight planks don't fit fair. Change it to 90 degrees, and they really don't fit.



As for the hydrodynamics... I'm certainly no expert, but it seems to me that there is a very distinct difference. Consider, for instance, the Gloucester Light Dory ... You have a narrow bottom with a wider beam, and the boat picks up stability as it heels. A box boat with vertical sides will NEVER be a fast or capable a rowboat as the GLD. On a beamier boat designed for sailing the difference is less noticeable, but there is still a difference.

Leaving all that aside, the complex shape of any traditional boat -- even a hard-chined boat -- is more visually appealing than the vertical sides of a Bolger "box." If that doesn't matter to you, then wear the label with pride -- but a box is a box is a box, and a boat with 90-degree chines and vertical sides is most definitely a "box," even if it sails just as well as a more complex shape.

For not being an expert, as you admit, you have a very strong opinion. The issue of hydrodynamics is explained in the Bolger "sea-of-peas" theory (http://members.fortunecity.com/duckworks/2004/0901/). By all accounts, that "sea-of-peas" theory tests out in the real world as a valid theory. (Even if it is contrary to your opinion.)

The key issue, I think, is that in actuality the so called box doesn't have 90 degree angles on all four sides. It has 90 degree angles on only two of the sides. The fore and aft sides are more like 130 degree angles, and hence, the bottom is deeply curved in the vertical direction; very unbox like. The vertical sides are very deeply curved in the horizontal direction, very unbox-like. The combined effect of the deep curves in the bottom and sides makes these boat very slippery through the water.

The real test might be, drag a genuine box shape through the water and observe the drag which would be huge.

http://members.fortunecity.com/duckworks/2004/0901/index_files/peas2.jpg

[Steve Paskey]

The issue of hydrodynamics is explained in the Bolger "sea-of-peas" theory (http://members.fortunecity.com/duckworks/2004/0901/). By all accounts, that "sea-of-peas" theory tests out in the real world as a valid theory. (Even if it is contrary to your opinion.)

I think we're talking about apples and oranges. The "sea of peas" theory deals only with the flow of water at the chine. If that's the extent of what you mean by "hydrodynamics," then, yes, you're correct.

But I was talking about other issues. As I said, show me a single-chine rowboat with vertical sides that can equal the performance of the Gloucester Light Dory.

Even if the "box" boat characterization is purely aesthetic and not the least bit functional, it's still a valid point. The boats look like a box -- especially when they're in the water, and you can't see the curve of the bottom. If I'm going to spend money, time, or both on a boat, I want something pleasing to my eye. Bolger's boxes are not.

[Steve Paskey]

I have tried this in the real world, and found that actually you can't. The angle of the cant of the sides of the New Haven sharpie is critical to whether straight planks work. Change the cant angle, and straight planks don't fit fair. Change it to 90 degrees, and they really don't fit.

This makes no sense to me. If the plank isn't twisted, the bend lies in a single plane. If you can bend a plank to follow a fair curve in one plane, it should follow the same curve in a different plane. Rotate that plane in space, and it's still a single plane and the same curve.

Given some of the other discussions on the forum about bending wood planks, I'd like to hear from someone with more experience.

James McMullen ... please set us straight!

[brucehallman]

This makes no sense to me. If the plank isn't twisted, the bend lies in a single plane. If you can bend a plank to follow a curve in one plane, it should follow the same curve in a different plane. Rotate that plane in space, and it's still a single plane.

Given some of the other discussions on here about bending wood, I'd like to hear from someone with more experience at bending wood planks.

James McMullen ... please set us straight!

Imagine the upper edge of the garboard. As the cant of the plank changes, the upper edge of the garboard evolves from a concave line, to a straight line, to a convex line. The "ideal" traditional sharpie, or traditional dory has the cant of the side set so the upper edge of the garboard is pretty close to a straight line.

[brucehallman]

If I'm going to spend money, time, or both on a boat, I want something pleasing to my eye. Bolger's boxes are not.

On this point I agree wholeheartedly. Some people don't like the looks of these hard chined Bolger boats known as "Advanced Sharpies". Enough said. Owning a boat (or not) simply for looks is a plenty good reason to choose a boat.

That said, call it that. Say, you don't like the looks. Don't say that they are un-seaworthy, or that they are poor performers, etc., to rationalize that you don't like the looks.

[brucehallman]

This makes no sense to me. If the plank isn't twisted, the bend lies in a single plane. If you can bend a plank to follow a fair curve in one plane, it should follow the same curve in a different plane. Rotate that plane in space, and it's still a single plane and the same curve.

Just below is an experiment. The side planks of a New Haven Sharpie. Blue shows the conventional canted sides. Red is altered to have vertical sides. See the expanded panels and observe how the conventional canted side holds a straight line for the upper edge of the plank. The vertical side in red has a decided concave upper edge. It is for this reason that I believe that the shape of the traditional boat was affected by the economy of the natural bend of a sawn plank.

In a modern era with availability of plywood, designs of boats don't have the same constraint. Hence, vertical sided boats can now be economical, where before they were not.

http://hallman.org/boats/strake0.jpg

[stephenlneal]

Japanese Beach Cruiser with Birdwatcher a close second – good Florida boats. :cool:

Has someone built the Japanese Beach Cruiser?

[Steve Paskey]

Has someone built the Japanese Beach Cruiser?

I've read about at least one build, but have never seen photos. I used to think it was a great little boat, but Welsford's SCAMP is similar and to my mind better.

My favorite Bolger design is a little 16-foot gaff-rigged sailboat with a traditional build. It was intended to have something of the air of a Muscongus bay sloop. It's in one of the books, but for the life of me I just can't remember what it's called.

Ah, that's it ... I just checked the database on the Yahoo! group. It's FANCY, from "30 Odd Boats."

I believe this is it ...

http://www.boat-links.com/PT/PT2000/Truancy-1.jpg

[stephenlneal]

Oh, I'm sure "FANCY" is a fine boat but seems a lot different from Japanese Beach Cruiser. For one important thing, the cat-yawl rig! Next, the punt bow, giving greater beam and stability. I think it's magnificent! Everytime I open BWAOM I go there first!

[I Bin Therbefor]

That is easy to say, but... The person deciding this is PCB's heir, and based on my observations during the PCB memorial I am quite sure that SA feels that any posthumous book would need to be carefully done and serve as an appropriate tribute to a great man. (Witness the care she took designing and commissioning PCB's memorial stone.) Maybe not 'slick and glossy', but certainly it would need to be precise, careful and thoughtful. (And, those three qualities take time and are not easily delegated.)

Three editions: 1st, Leather bound with autographs; 2nd, hard back; 3rd, trade paperback.


IBT

[Paul Pless]

Three editions: 1st, Leather bound with autographs


IBTThe only autograph that would matter is unobtainable. . .

[earling2]

[QUOTE=Steve Paskey;3146732]
My favorite Bolger design is a little 16-foot gaff-rigged sailboat with a traditional build. It was intended to have something of the air of a Muscongus bay sloop. It's in one of the books, but for the life of me I just can't remember what it's called.

Ah, that's it ... I just checked the database on the Yahoo! group. It's FANCY, from "30 Odd Boats."[QUOTE]

There's a small Bolger Friendship type for sale on Lady Ben for very low money. Tempting!

http://www.ladyben.com/SearchResultsFull.asp?VesselID=3749

[Tom Painter]

http://www.ladyben.com/SearchResultsFull.asp?VesselID=3749

That's wicked cheap.....painfully tempting

[earling2]

That's wicked cheap.....painfully tempting

excruciatingly tempting.
Good thing I'm broke and don't live near the ocean anymore.

[Bill7254]

The lapstrake Chebacco.

[stasisboy]

I like the 15 foot sharpie cat yawl, Jinni.

[Woxbox]

There's always this one:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-ilE7kiWLO9zLoGvyeXnBIt3ugdcqNNRQ8pXT8hwwtR0vzPI9zg

[stephenlneal]

Amen!

[earling2]

The lapstrake Chebacco.

My boaty friends don't like the plywood version, but I do. A lot.

[DutchProf]

I have tried to figure out the upload system, but frankly am getting a bit confused - anyone who would like to see the images of the Burgundy hull built according to Bolger's design, feel free to contact me off-thread at Landmf@mac.com I'll be be glad to send them to you. Seems too tricky to do it via the site - sorry! ML

[hfrodger]

In the early 80's I built a "poohsticks" rowboat. A 12' vee bottomed double ender. Lots of rocker and good flare. It was very fast and an easy rower, and it could handle Lake Michigan surf with no problem. On top of it all it got plenty of compliments. One lesson I learned is that cheap brass screws react with oak so the fastenings didn't last. It was an excellent little boat. I would highly recommend the design to anyone who wants a rowing boat.

[John Smith]

There are so many. I'd have to eliminate those that would not have at any time been something I would have considered for my own use, leaving us with the smaller end sailing craft.

Then I have to consider my desires and needs as time has changed me from youthful to aged. In my younger days, the light schooner would likely have been my first choice.

As I got older and less agile, Bobcat looks good,

This is a little bit like trying to decide which Elvis recording and Elvis fan likes best. The one that fills that bill today may be different than the one that filled that bill yesterday.

[DGentry]

In the early 80's I built a "poohsticks" rowboat . . .
Cool! Got any pictures?

[Sailor of fortune]

My favorite is Champlain, although I've only seen them in pictures. I have built 2 pointy skiffs, diablo,big dory, Tennessee,brick,tortoise and am in the process of a Rubens nymph.
One that intrigues me is the Solutions 48. Again, I have never seen one of these also.

[DGentry]

I have built . . . (a) Tennessee . . .
Cool! Got any pictures?

[Sailor of fortune]

Cool! Got any pictures?I Do have pics', but I am on tug until Oct 17. When I get back to Fl, I will post pics of the Tennessee.

[brucehallman]

I Do have pics', but I am on tug until Oct 17. When I get back to Fl, I will post pics of the Tennessee.

Add me to the list of people eager to see some pictures of your Tennessee!

[ben2go]

Add me to the list of people eager to see some pictures of your Tennessee!

Me three.

[brucehallman]

There are dozens of highly esteemed designers that design 'normal' boats, and perhaps half of Phil Bolger's 700 boat designs were 'normal'. While, there are very few boat designers that design 'abnormal' boats, and fewer still which are esteemed.

I have been thinking for quite a while about my answer to the question posed above: "What is your favorite Bolger design?" While I love boat porn as much as most people around here, you know, the gorgeous lines of Defender, or the lapstrake Chebacco, or even the astonishing Rose frigate. I set those aside because they all merge into the crowd of other 'normal' boats, which while being gorgeous, remain predictable. (Boats like this are kind of like supermodels, real pretty women, but lacking something beyond their great looks.)

Bolger gets really unique when you consider the 'abnormal' side of his opus. Perhaps at the top of that list, measured in straight ahead function for a purpose achieved by thinking out of the box probably is his design "Birdwatcher". A truly revolutionary idea, that simply works with elegant simplicity.

Still, Birdwatcher isn't my favorite. I have to admit I have a soft spot, admiration for the instances where Phil Bolger took his ideas to extreme with an arrogant insolence, thumbing his nose at the narrow minded "conventional wisdom" of "right thinking boatmen". This is a hobby after all, and there is a place for competitive fun and sarcasm. Probably the most familiar example of this type of Bolger boat is his Superbrick design. So outrageous that no one yet has had the courage to build one. (I have built models of it, and studied it at length.) I am convinced that it would work just fine, though it would make many people's heads smoke due to its outrageous rule breaking. Another boat in this line of thinking is the poor-man's racer: Insolent-60. (A tri-folding racing schooner which would put a scare into races with other boats costing 10x more. I-60 is my third favorite Bolger design.) That said, a joke is a joke.

Still, I think my favorite type of Bolger boat designs were made in the very last part of his life. I get the sense that he became more serious at the end, and devoted his energy trying to leave a legacy which amounted to more that 1) designing another pretty boat, or 2) designing another too-clever Instant Boat toy for hobbyist's. In the last decade of his life he was consumed with two major projects, the first being his attempt to "save" the failed World Fisheries industry. His work on sustainable fisheries in an era of high fuel costs and high capital costs amounts to a true Bolger legacy. His work on his Advanced Fisherman class of vessels is really awesome. I think the Blackliner 30 (aka "Robin Jean") might be my second to most favorite Bolger design.

The other end of life challenge Phil Bolger undertook was his work with the US Navy, attempting to reposition the Navy for the realities of the 21st Century. He worked on a number of projects concept designs with the USN, but I think the most ingenious was his Third World Patrol boat, the SACPAS-3. The gist of this concept is as follows: In the 21st Century you never can know which remote obscure port of call will be the next crisis ground zero. Therefore, it is vital to build allegiances with local people everywhere. (That way, when the crisis develops, you have someone local who you can call in a favor to distinguish the good guys from the bad guys in that port.) To achieve that end, you need a cheap, easy to build and maintain, locally sourced "patrol craft" that can double as an economical fishing craft for use by locals in each of the backwater ports and bays throughout the Third World. In a Navy with billion dollar ships, this $20K craft is less than a budget speck, but spread by the hundreds around the world, such early legwork, loyalty connections and goodwill could pay off in Billions later when the next Somalia-style crisis erupts. Having a chance of advancing the hope of World peace, which is a pretty noble goal I think.

Therefore, my favorite Bolger boat was his last design, the SACPAS-3.

[ben2go]

Robin Jean has to be one of my most favs.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8427660@N02/3284194433/

[Sailor of fortune]

The foam sandwich of Robin Jean and others is interesting. I bought plans for Fast Brick, although I havn't built one. I recently decided to do my bilge panels on the Rubens Nymph in ply/foam/ply sandwich as an ecxercise in that form. I am in the process of moving so its on the back burner for now (along with my mostly built AF4).

[I Bin Therbefor]

In the last decade of his life he was consumed with two major projects, the first being his attempt to "save" the failed World Fisheries industry. His work on sustainable fisheries in an era of high fuel costs and high capital costs amounts to a true Bolger legacy. His work on his Advanced Fisherman class of vessels is really awesome. I think the Blackliner 30 (aka "Robin Jean") might be my second to most favorite Bolger design.

The other end of life challenge Phil Bolger undertook was his work with the US Navy, attempting to reposition the Navy for the realities of the 21st Century. He worked on a number of projects concept designs with the USN, but I think the most ingenious was his Third World Patrol boat, the SACPAS-3. The gist of this concept is as follows: In the 21st Century you never can know which remote obscure port of call will be the next crisis ground zero. Therefore, it is vital to build allegiances with local people everywhere. (That way, when the crisis develops, you have someone local who you can call in a favor to distinguish the good guys from the bad guys in that port.) To achieve that end, you need a cheap, easy to build and maintain, locally sourced "patrol craft" that can double as an economical fishing craft for use by locals in each of the backwater ports and bays throughout the Third World. In a Navy with billion dollar ships, this $20K craft is less than a budget speck, but spread by the hundreds around the world, such early legwork, loyalty connections and goodwill could pay off in Billions later when the next Somalia-style crisis erupts. Having a chance of advancing the hope of World peace, which is a pretty noble goal I think.

Therefore, my favorite Bolger boat was his last design, the SACPAS-3.

Bruce,

I can't find any images of the SACPAS-3. Not suprising as it hasn't been built?

But I can't find any articles, cartoons, layouts, plans, etc either. Any site references that can help?

IBT

[brucehallman]

I can't find any images of the SACPAS-3.

A prototype SACPAS-3 is currently being built in Gloucester, MA. The design, and the build has been subject of a serialized article in Bob Hick's magazine Messing About in Boats, presently ongoing. It has taken shape, and might be ready for launch any week now.

The SACPAS-3 hull shape, 39 feet long, is solidly in align with the typical and familiar "Advanced Fisherman" class. Flat plate bottom with a upsweep at the bow, which gets filled with a ribbed & curved cutwater. I have not done a isometric study of SACPAS-3, but it is similar to about half way in between the Advanced Fisherman 30 and the Advanced Fisherman 70.

http://hallman.org/bolger/AdvancedFisherman30/
http://hallman.org/bolger/AF70/

http://hallman.org/bolger/AF70/Clipboard05.jpg
http://hallman.org/bolger/AdvancedFisherman30/Clipboard02.jpg

[ben2go]

My new live aboard.

[Sailor of fortune]

Where/who is building it in Gloucester? What material?

[brucehallman]

My new live aboard.
There are a number of Bolger boats in this lineage, and the design in this class called "Sitka Explorer" would make an awesome long range cruiser/live-aboard, or if that is too big you might also consider the "Topaz" design.

If I recall correctly, the SACPAS-3 build is going on at (or near) the Maritime Heritage Center on the Inner Harbor (http://g.co/maps/bnm3e)waterfront of Gloucester. A group of people are doing it, with the most famous/leader being Susanne Altenberger. All these boats are plywood/epoxy/fiberglass construction.

[hfrodger]

I would have to dig something out and scan it, if I have anything. And now that I think about it, it was more slab sided than flared. Nevertheless it was a seaworthy little boat. And very easy to row I might add.

[I Bin Therbefor]

A prototype SACPAS-3 is currently being built in Gloucester, MA. The design, and the build has been subject of a serialized article in Bob Hick's magazine Messing About in Boats, presently ongoing. It has taken shape, and might be ready for launch any week now.

The SACPAS-3 hull shape, 39 feet long, is solidly in align with the typical and familiar "Advanced Fisherman" class. Flat plate bottom with a upsweep at the bow, which gets filled with a ribbed & curved cutwater. I have not done a isometric study of SACPAS-3, but it is similar to about half way in between the Advanced Fisherman 30 and the Advanced Fisherman 70.

http://hallman.org/bolger/AdvancedFisherman30/
http://hallman.org/bolger/AF70/

http://hallman.org/bolger/AF70/Clipboard05.jpg
http://hallman.org/bolger/AdvancedFisherman30/Clipboard02.jpg

As I recall, Susan said in an interveiw that the 40' length was required to be true fishing boat. I think that was in response to some questions about the Advanced Fisherman 30.

I intend to get the back issues from MAIB and then follow the rest of the story.

Thanks

[earling2]

AF70 looks like the real deal to me. Brutally beautiful. Completely innovative with ideas drawn from every direction. Man o man. Hope some up-and-coming Gloucesterman builds one

I agree that his later work was more serious and I dig that stuff, too. But for me, one of the the many areas where he really stood out was in his "normal" design work--I guess I take the opposite view as Bruce. Ie, as far as I'm concerned, anybody can be iconoclastic and weird. I don't have any great libertarian compulsion, myself, and see the traditional designs as the very finely evolved expressions of our best nature, and in my opinion, his normal stuff was significantly better, prettier, better performing than just about anybody else's. His angular, "instant" stuff worked well, too, for the most part but I definitely resonate more to the works of art in his portfolio. And I think his beautiful designs are more beautiful than most other designer's work. HIs detail was amazing--if you've ever checked out any of his correctly built traditional designs (correctly built being the operative phrase, since builders too often think they have a better eye . . . .). Unfortunately, for every fifty Elegant Punts there's one Fancy, or Windfola, or Lynx, or Nahant rotting away somewhere that nobody's seen.

On the other hand... truly modern, serious, innovative stuff like AF70 definitely have the capacity to blow people away in both looks and engineering seriousness

[brucehallman]

On the other hand... truly modern, serious, innovative stuff like AF70 definitely have the capacity to blow people away in both looks and engineering seriousness

I had plenty of 'mind blow' feelings while doing my study of AF70, creating that isometric. (rendering 3D models is a great way to get some 'understanding' of a boat design). The thoughtful details, like:

Weight distribution of the battery bank and tankage.
The thoughtful arrangement of the crew quarters/galley.
The inherent buoyancy 'double duty' of the fish hold, making the hull unsinkable, and super insulated to achieve economy of purchased ice.
The engine room vent serving double duty as a hoist point for the engine pull repairs, while adding a passive side-windage counter-balance against the main cabin.
The entire passive stability reserved buoyancy of the design, thoughtfully worked out so this boat could likely survive that 'Perfect Storm' rogue wave.
The low tech materials/building scheme such that this boat could actually be built one winter by a small and under-capitalized family in their back yard without taking out a profit killing big loan.
Fuel efficiency, for low operating costs, again to make fishing economical without diesel costs killing your profit.
The 'riding sail' and the swinging dagger board gives flexibility and comfort/safety while working a rough windy sea.
This boat actually has a retractable 'V-board", effectively giving it 'drag-brakes' for stopping power, an innovative idea.
The clever arrangement of the tender/lifeboat mounted on swinging davit.
The arrangement of the aft ramp for net hauling.

[I Bin Therbefor]

On the other hand... truly modern, serious, innovative stuff like AF70 definitely have the capacity to blow people away in both looks and engineering seriousness

I just subscribed to the email version of MAIB, starting with the August eition to be able read the monthly SACPAS-3 articles. That boat is not only innovative as a boat but also as a construction method. From what I can see, three non-boat builders, but good carpenters, under Susan's supervision have got a 40' ready for sea trials within 90 to 120 days. That same methodology is part of the story of the AF70!

[brucehallman]

.. also as a construction method.

I can attest to the construction method. As a rank amateur myself, I built the 31foot Topaz Spider (very similar to the AF30). Essentially single handed. (Well, I had the help of some teenage girls in my family.) Dragging and manipulating 32 foot long 1/2 inch think panels of plywood is like dealing with giant pieces of fettuccine, still, got it done and it worked. The flat plate 'keel' is actually a very stout clever think. Laminated up to 1 inch thick from a double layer of 1/2" ply, two foot stagger jointed, and glued with epoxy. The 'clamping' I did using silicone bronze ringshank nails installed with a two hammer approach, with a 3 pound maul below, and a carpenters hammer above. Works like a charm! Apply the cutwater rib, and then twisted plate cutwater panels and you end up with a very pretty curved shape.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/135730581/in/photostream/

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/44/135730582_04b403031f_z.jpg

[earling2]

If you've been reading Bolger's book for a long time, you see the development of his ideas over time, and the AF70 is sort of like a catalog of so many of them he culled from earlier experiments. You could probably take most of the elements of AF70 and trace them back to earlier recreational ideas (like the sponsons on the Gloucester Yawl from Small Boats, or the hogged keel from Toneweya in 30-Odd Boats). Both show up in vestigial form in that AF70, ideas percolating over decades. and that's only two of them

Tonweya
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/earling2/tonweya.png


Gloucester yawl
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/earling2/gloucesteryawl.png

[Sailor of fortune]

Hey Folks
I'm trying to post my Tennessee pics with not much luck. They are in Picassa (jpeg files). The editor comes up to large, even after cropping and resizing.
Any suggestions for a non techy?

[DGentry]

Post the direct URL link using the image function in the toolbar, and uncheck the "Retrieve remote file and reference locally" box?
Otherwise post your link to Picassa and maybe one of us can do something with it - or at least we could all take a look at what you've got.

Good luck!
Dave Gentry

[Thad Van Gilder]

Definitely the Hms Rose!!!!

[landlocked sailor]

My favorite
http://db.tt/yUwd5Xe4
But then I am biasedhttp://db.tt/zItjS4VG
Meander 2004
Rick

[landlocked sailor]

With later modifications
http://db.tt/pbro3LQd

Rick

[Peter Eikenberry]

Wow! That's a beauty.

[Woxbox]

So you had to gild the lilly.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

[Mad Scientist]

Batteries in the cuddy?

Tom

[landlocked sailor]

I did guild the Lily and here's why: I built her with meranti. The hull is sheathed in dynel/epoxy but the decks were just painted. After a couple years the decks checked badly, like fir ply. Hence my admittedly over the top solution. It's the closest I'll ever get to a mahogany runabout. Rick

[holzbt]

http://www.amschooner.org/files/Sheerwater02email.jpg

Shearwater is pretty nice.

[landlocked sailor]

Tom, that's correct; 6 deep cell batteries in the cuddy. They are on a sliding tray so one can adjust the trim depending on number of passengers. Rick

[earling2]

Where is that boat? (Shearwater) It was for sale a few years back, not much $$
Beautiful especially from astern.

[M. J. Notigan]

My favorite design from Phil is the one I've been building in the backyard for a long time now.....MICROTRAWLER. Long an admirer of the Grand Banks trawler yachts, I knew with my meager Coast Guard salary that a full scale trawler was out with my micro budget and salary. When I saw an old ad from Common Sense Designs back in the early 90's featuring the MT in a photo and shortly thereafter reading Phils' comments on her in Boats With An Open Mind my mind was made up. Many years (1995)-Coast Guard PCS moves-9-11 and finally retirement led me to where she is about 65-70 percent complete with hopes of a launch next fall (hopefully). As she is being made outside under an overhanging tarp, the weather has put me at her mercy. That's ok as it has allowed me time to make my mistakes and time to allow me how to comtemplate correcting most of them! I'm a big fan of the Bolger Box Boats, Power Division. Having stumbled onto this forum only recently (bought this laptop and went online for the first time in Feb 2011), I'm so glad I did! Peter Lenihans' beautiful WINDERMERE is proof in the pudding that a so-called Bolger Box can be a thing of desirous beauty. Saltiguy's CHAMPLAIN build was so interesting to follow with his ruminations from his TAMIAMI BOATWORKS. And so heartbreaking following his battles with Cancer. I true gentleman, he is missed. These 2 threads are ones I still go back to over and over for inspiration. I also look for Bruce Hallmans' remarks on all things Bolger and am simply amazed at the isometrics done on Phils' boats.


I love the later Bolger Box Boats (Power Division) such as WINDERMERE, CHAMPLAIN, RETRIEVER, WYOMING AND ILLINOIS. Had I come later into the boatbuilding bug, one of these listed boats would be now sitting in the yard rather then the MT. Having said that, the MT in my eyes is unique; Grand Banks luxury (taken to it's extreme) with shallow draft (which will allow me to go into these shallow Delaware River creeks that empty into our river here in the Delaware Valley north of Philadelphia), a short LOA (which saves one in registration costs) and less strain handling her of the trailer. Economical to run (most important in these times of permanent high fuel costs). I'm almost suprised a manufacturer has not come along to make this a fiberglass production boat......


So there you go, Microtrawler..... I would like to thank Mr Bolger, who I'm most sure is looking down from above on my project, for all the years of pleasure with his designs, cartoons and commentary. When Boats with an open mind came out, I read that book from front to back, hour after hour, on icebreaking ops in the Hudson River on the Coast Guard Cutter Line. Always got a chuckle with his understated way with words....yes, he is correct; it could be and is the most expensive 14 foot boat ever made!


Calling Mr. Bruce Hallman: I love your isometrics of Phils' Boats. Spent many hours studying the Wyoming. Just beautiful work. Do you have an isometric of the Microtrawler? Sure would love to see your work on that boat. Thanks too, for flying the Bolger Flag in the way you do!

Mike

Eyeball Engineering is a ficticious name I gave to my boatbuilding operation on my MT. If you saw some of my handiwork on her, you'd know why Eyeball Engineering and Drydock Company is most fitting......

[stephenlneal]

Capt. Notigan, I love your post! Heartfelt and right on!
I've only built one Bolger boat, the Cartopper, and got much pleasure out of her. Next build will be June Bug...I wrote to Mr. Bolger about designing a cartopper for older, stiffer folks to sail and he wrote back and said "June Bug will do all you want".
Please show us photos if and when you can.

[brucehallman]

My favorite design from Phil is the one I've been building in the backyard for a long time now.....MICROTRAWLER.

Yes, Microtrawler, 14ft6in long, 7ft11in wide, high speed planing boat with low horsepower, sleeps two on 6'5" inch berths. Standing headroom in the galley. Pretty amazing design.

http://hallman.org/bolger/Microtrawler.jpg

[ben2go]

The micro is a cool little ship.There is a yahoo group dedicated to the micro trawler.There's some cool modified ones on there.

[M. J. Notigan]

Capt. Notigan, I love your post! Heartfelt and right on!
I've only built one Bolger boat, the Cartopper, and got much pleasure out of her. Next build will be June Bug...I wrote to Mr. Bolger about designing a cartopper for older, stiffer folks to sail and he wrote back and said "June Bug will do all you want".
Please show us photos if and when you can.

Hi, Stephen,
Thanks for the kind words! I never had the pleasure of writing to Mr Bolger, but I certainly wanted to. In his book Boats With An Open Mind I always wondered about his 14 foot steel tug design and how he mentioned that he had a friend who was lost off Gloucester in a storm when the storm more then likely knocked his main engine out when waves likely flooded down his boats exhaust stack. As an old Coastie and lover of good books about man against ocean, years later after reading his words, I bought a great book titled 10 Hours Until Dawn, about the Northeast Blizzard of 1978 and the Pilot Boat "Can Do" fighting that storm off Gloucester. The Can Do and it's Captain, Frank Quirk, was a Gloucester mainstay. Quirk was a well respected man around Phils home area. The boat was lost (but salvaged later on) and it's crew were killed in that storm when the Can DO snapped it's anchor line and was dashed upon rocky shallows off the coast. Always wanted to write to Mr Bolger to confirm my thoughts on his remarks in his book, but, sadly, he had passed on.....I wish you great success in your new build!!! There's nothing like buying a pile of wood and watching your creation come to shape. And to know our designs are from the hand and mind of Mr Bolger makes it all the sweeter!! After enjoying Peter and Saltiguys threads on their builds I am thinking of doing something like that with mine, especially the goofs, as a sort of lesson for all to consider when attempting their buids. First I have to figure the ins and outs of posting and pictures and etc.....I'm lucky if this post goes out in one peice!!!
Take Care,
Mike

[M. J. Notigan]

Yes, Microtrawler, 14ft6in long, 7ft11in wide, high speed planing boat with low horsepower, sleeps two on 6'5" inch berths. Standing headroom in the galley. Pretty amazing design.

http://hallman.org/bolger/Microtrawler.jpg
Hi Bruce,
Yep, that's her! What I loved about her design was back in the early 1990's there really wasn't much out there on the market like this. Jay Benford had his wonderful Grivit and Bullhead mini-tug/trawler design out, but that was beyond my rudimentary boatbuilding skills to contemplate. Having just completed a Steve Redmond Whisp, I was more comfortable with a tack and nail or stitch and glue design rather then a very complicated build which the Grivit appeared to these eyes. Mr Berkeley Eastmans' Can-Du mini tug is a great design to contemplate and I purchased plans. My plans were to modify the tug with a cabin attached to the pilot house a'la Grivit. Other then these 2, and the larger Bo-Jest by Glen-L, the small, pilothouse tug/trawler design shelf was barren. In the end, I stayed with Microtrawler and haven't regretted it! Regarding interesting Bolger designs: there is a boat that Mr Bolger designed for a cruising boat design contest that the magazine Coastal Cruising held, I believe in the late 1980's/early 90's. I believe this design must have been the genesis for the later Illinois design. It was along the lines of Illinois in that it had a large flat main deck that ran from stem to stern and held on it's deck various small boats and other gear. I want to think that he called it a Personal Aircraft Carrier. It was the only time I recall seeing this design, through the pages of this magazine. I'll have to check to see if I still have that copy.... Thanks for digging up those old Microtrawler shots! If the Gloucester Light Dory was the ticket to heaven for Phil, well, Microtrawler and every other interesting design from this man was just confirmation of the genius that was his fertile mind and imagination!
Take care,
Mike

[stephenlneal]

Hi, Stephen,
Thanks for the kind words! I never had the pleasure of writing to Mr Bolger, but I certainly wanted to. In his book Boats With An Open Mind I always wondered about his 14 foot steel tug design and how he mentioned that he had a friend who was lost off Gloucester in a storm when the storm more then likely knocked his main engine out when waves likely flooded down his boats exhaust stack. As an old Coastie and lover of good books about man against ocean, years later after reading his words, I bought a great book titled 10 Hours Until Dawn, about the Northeast Blizzard of 1978 and the Pilot Boat "Can Do" fighting that storm off Gloucester. The Can Do and it's Captain, Frank Quirk, was a Gloucester mainstay. Quirk was a well respected man around Phils home area. The boat was lost (but salvaged later on) and it's crew were killed in that storm when the Can DO snapped it's anchor line and was dashed upon rocky shallows off the coast. Always wanted to write to Mr Bolger to confirm my thoughts on his remarks in his book, but, sadly, he had passed on.....I wish you great success in your new build!!! There's nothing like buying a pile of wood and watching your creation come to shape. And to know our designs are from the hand and mind of Mr Bolger makes it all the sweeter!! After enjoying Peter and Saltiguys threads on their builds I am thinking of doing something like that with mine, especially the goofs, as a sort of lesson for all to consider when attempting their buids. First I have to figure the ins and outs of posting and pictures and etc.....I'm lucky if this post goes out in one peice!!!
Take Care,
Mike

Mike,
I would encourage you to post the build. There are many here who would be very interested and many who have tremendous knowledge and experience which they share time after time. As Wooden Boat is the finest publication of any kind, this is also the finest forum.
Over the years I've written to Mr. Bolger several times, have bought plans from him, and have received very nice and pointed replies. As you mentioned, he had a wonderful writing style...like you, I've read BWAOM many many times and keep learning at each read. This has led me to hunt down other books. My favorite at the moment is "100 Small Boat Rigs" which I see as a college course in the subject!
I grew up sailing but now live in the Rocky Mtns of Idaho. I've been a guitar maker for over 40 years and have a great deal of woodworking skill and patience...am currently looking for the right design of a small cruising sailboat for the Inland Waterways of British Columbia and Alaska. I've studied several of Bolger designs with this in mind...no decision yet.
One of the best books I ever read was "Grey Seas Under" by Farley Mowat about ocean tugs and salvage vessels...Amazing in every way!
Best Regards,
Stephen

[ben2go]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microtrawler/?yguid=327107836 Micro Trawler Group

[M. J. Notigan]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microtrawler/?yguid=327107836 Micro Trawler Group

Hi Ben,
Thanks for the info on the microtrawler group! I always like to check out what other folks are doing in order to steal, er, take in their interpretations of the design. :D
Take Care,
Mike

[ben2go]

You're welcome.

[Sailor of fortune]

https://picasaweb.google.com/108722116206724859970/TennesseeBuild Hopefullly this link will work!