Shrinking the new canvas

[ron ll]

Okay, I've finished streching the new canvas over the cabin top. It's over felt and edge stapled with Monel staples. So do I wet it and shrink it and paint it now trusting that the staples will hold it? Or do I install all the bullnose and edge trim first, then shrink it? My guess is I shrink it now, but I just had a scary vision of the shrinking canvas pulling all the staples out.

[Larks]

At the risk of stealing Jay's thunder, (or to save him repeating himself because this has been covered a few times here and I've been saving the information for my own use), here's how he's done it on Bright Star:

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii11/Larks_01/Jaysh286.jpg

[stevedwyer]

There are bound to be people who disagree with me but...
In my studio, I've never had canvas ( Cotton Duck ) shrink after stretching.
On the other hand, I have had canvas ( linen canvas made with flax ) shrink up as tight as a drum and pop the tacks and even break the stretcher frames.
The linen fibers are much longer and seem to react differently than cotton.

On your boat, I think cotton duck stretched fairly tight and held with staples should be fine. It may be easier to paint if you leave of the trim strip til later.
Wetting down the canvas certainly does smooth it out, but it does not seem to shrink like linen.

There are experts here with canvas decks I wouldn't dare challenge. This is just my experience with canvas

[pcford]

Spray the canvas with a water hose. It will shrink. Soak the canvas. Does not have to be boiling water...

If you did a good job with the staples they won't pull out.

[ron ll]

Love this place. I just finished the stapling and posted the question via iphone while on my boat. By the time I finished a cold Pacifico, I had all these answers. So I hosed her down and now I'm on my second cold cerveza while the sun does it's work. Pat, I'm trusting you. I'm going to wet it down a couple of times tomorrow and then paint it with Miller enamel undercoat while it's still wet, no matter how counterintuitive that seems. Pix tomorrow.

[pcford]

Love this place. I just finished the stapling and posted the question via iphone while on my boat. By the time I finished a cold Pacifico, I had all these answers. So I hosed her down and now I'm on my second cold cerveza while the sun does it's work. Pat, I'm trusting you. I'm going to wet it down a couple of times tomorrow and then paint it with Miller enamel undercoat while it's still wet, no matter how counterintuitive that seems. Pix tomorrow.

Wait! You need to let it shrink before you paint it! Let it dry completely or nearly so. THEN wet it again and paint. Just be sure it's plain old primer and not a porous surfacer. Actually I just put enamel down. It does not suck up too much..

Canvas can hold a huge amount of water...note how heavy a pair of wet Levis are....if you just put the paint on a dry canvas it would suck up a huge amount of paint. You don't want that.

[ron ll]

How many cervezas am I going to have to wait before I can paint it? :D No, I'm not going to paint it tonight. Tomorrow at the soonest. With this 80 degree weather it should be good 'n shrunk by then. Thanks for the help.

[Larks]

so while you're busy admiring your handiwork, how about posting some photos with that flash phone you have there??

[ron ll]

Minor problem with the iPhone. I can take the pix and I can post to the forum. Just can't do both. I can email the pix but can't upload them to a server. I can do it tomorrow from my office tho.

[ron ll]

Promised pix.

Wooded, filled and sanded:
http://www.ronlloyd.com/oddstuff/canvas2.jpg

After canvas was stretched, stapled and soaked:
(Sorry no pix of felt stage)
http://www.ronlloyd.com/oddstuff/canvas1.jpg

[pcford]

Looks great...did you seal the t&g after sanding?

When reapplying the moulding, be sure you have a tight fit. This might involve trimming canvas...seal contact surfaces of moulding.

I am sure that the Irish felt method was the best for a t&g substrate like you have. The biggest part of the job of recanvasing is the taking the mouldings and the rest of the stuff off and replacing. And then you have to revarnish. Putting the canvas down goes fast....

[ron ll]

Looks great...did you seal the t&g after sanding?

Uhhhhh.........Yeah. Sure. That's the ticket. I sealed the wood. Crap. Feel like helping me pull a whole lotta staples?

So what's going to happen because I didn't seal it?

[Jay Greer]

Only canvas that is not pre-shrunk will shrink when hot water is applied. I paint the canvas immediatly with a very thin coat of semi gloss oil based house paint.
Once that is dry, more thin coats are applied until a uniform color is achieved.
No need to fill the grain of the canvas. If you have ever seen the deck on a new Beetle Cat, that surface is what you are looking for.
Jay

[ron ll]

The biggest part of the job of recanvasing is the taking the mouldings and the rest of the stuff off and replacing. And then you have to revarnish. Putting the canvas down goes fast....

I was lucky in that the moldings are in great shape. They are steam bent oak and were installed properly so that the screws all backed out cleanly and the wood is like new. I epoxied wood dowels into the old screw holes and will redrill the pilot holes. Yes, the canvas still has to be trimmed so the molding will fit tight. I'll rebed with ample dolphinite. Where the canvas turns up onto the pilot house, there was no trim, it was just gooped and looked terrible. I'll have to build new molding for that. The sill plate on the pilot house walls was recessed to allow for the thickness of the canvas. Pretty smart.

[pcford]

Uhhhhh.........Yeah. Sure. That's the ticket. I sealed the wood. Crap. Feel like helping me pull a whole lotta staples?

So what's going to happen because I didn't seal it?

It might move about...the t&g is going to be sealed on one side and not the other. In general, wood should always be sealed on both sides.

One presumes there was some sealer on it?

[pcford]

Uhhhhh.........Yeah. Sure. That's the ticket. I sealed the wood. Crap. Feel like helping me pull a whole lotta staples?

So what's going to happen because I didn't seal it?

It might move about...the t&g is going to be sealed on one side and not the other. In general, wood should always be sealed on both sides.

One presumes there was some sealer on it originally?

The second time you do something it goes faster. I like the Petit sealer.

[BETTY-B]

Are you using lead for flashing, Ron?

DAN

[ron ll]

Are you using lead for flashing, Ron?

DAN

I don't think so, but hadn't thought about it. Wood trim with lots of bedding compound. But where might I use lead flashing?

[BETTY-B]

But where might I use lead flashing?

Where the house meets the new canvas. Not the overhanging part that you have not trimmed in the picture yet. But where the gray/white house boards meet the canvas. That's how mine is done. Or was. I need to re-do evrything.

DAN

[ron ll]

That's interesting. It's never had anything there since I've had the boat except an ugly mess of various goops. The 2" high sill plate is actually recessed about an 1/8" or so from the face of the vertical siding boards. (The house is double wall construction creating a cavity for the drop windows). I wonder if it was originally lead flashing. I had planned on building a wood trim piece there. What is the configuration of lead flashing? Is it tacked over the top of everything?

[Larks]

Ron, how have you dealt with (or how will you deal with) the hole in the deck? where the masking tape is on the canvas?

[ron ll]

The hole is for a rather large Charlie noble. It has it's own wood raised pad which I will reinstall. It used to have a cast iron diesel stove in the focsle, but now the forward house is just vberth, head and shower. Galley is now aft. But I'm leaving the Charlie noble as it provides good ventilation for the shower.

[BETTY-B]

What is the configuration of lead flashing? Is it tacked over the top of everything?

Yes. Mine has what looks like copper nails every inch or so. Of course the lead conforms real well. I have seen it on other, much better cared for boats than mine, where it looks real good. Sometimes painted, sometimes not.

One of the things I didnt get around to picking up this week is a 25' roll of 12" x 1/16" lead that I'm planning on using elsewhere. It is roughly a hundred pounds for that much. At $1.78 a pound since it's been worked. Nonferrous Metals down by the Duwamish is where I was planning on picking it up. I'd be curious if someone had a better source local to Seattle too.

DAN

[Paul Girouard]

what looks like copper nails every inch or so.

One of the things I didnt get around to picking up this week is a 25' roll of 12" x 1/16" lead that I'm planning on using elsewhere. I'd be curious if someone had a better source local to Seattle too.



Copper nails are hard to find up this way. lead you should be able to get from a roofing wholesaler like CB Wholesale if they have a place down in the city, or one of the bigger roofing companies down there.

Maybe one of the better lumber yards ?? They could order it for you I'm sure , CB seems to be out of Bellingham and Burlington. We got our lead out of the Burlington location.

[pcford]

I think the lead is fastened with copper tacks not nails.

I believe lead flashing is used on commercial boats most often...tugs and the like.

[BETTY-B]

Copper nails are hard to find up this way. lead you should be able to get from a roofing wholesaler like CB Wholesale if they have a place down in the city, or one of the bigger roofing companies down there.

Maybe one of the better lumber yards ?? They could order it for you I'm sure , CB seems to be out of Bellingham and Burlington. We got our lead out of the Burlington location.

Oh I realize that, Paul. But I think they(other distributors) would actually be buying from a source similar to Non-Ferrous Metals Inc. Who do sell to the public and also make their own lead products. It's just the only one I knew of off the top of my head.

[BETTY-B]

I think the lead is fastened with copper tacks not nails.

Yes, tacks. Thanks, Pat.

DAN

[ron ll]

Is there a bedding compound under the lead? And if the flashing is L shaped, would it still wrap around that curve I have at the corner of the house?

[pcford]

There is bedding under the lead.

I would think you would want to stick with molded pieces (quarter round). I thought you said you still have them. If you do not..it is a slow and tedious process to make the 1/4 round which curves around the end of the house.

[BETTY-B]

Why'd you ask then. Fornicate I give up :rolleyes:

Sorry man. I didnt mean to come across as poo-pooing your suggestion. I was just wondering if there was another local lead product manufacturer. But thank you for offering that roofing wholesale idea. I'm sure in other parts of the world, where lead product manufacturers are few and far between, this would be an excellent source.

DAN

[ron ll]

I still have the bullnose around the low cabin. There has never been any molding around the base of the pilot house while I have had the boat. I was going to build the curves by laminating around a pattern. Not looking forward to it.

[pcford]

I still have the bullnose around the low cabin. There has never been any molding around the base of the pilot house while I have had the boat. I was going to build the curves by laminating around a pattern. Not looking forward to it.

The way you do that is to fit a piece of wood to the inside curve. (That which mates the curve in house or whatever.) When it fits perfectly, saw the outer curve and round over with router.

[ron ll]

The bullnose on the front of the cabin is steam bent. The ones I have to build have about an 18" radius. Seems like to saw it out would require a very large piece of wood plus it would leave some awkward cross grain. It's easier for me to laminate it than steam bend it. It will be painted so laminating won't show.

BTW, I painted the canvas today immediately after hosing it down. Oil base paint on top of water but it worked fine.

[pcford]

The bullnose on the front of the cabin is steam bent. The ones I have to build have about an 18" radius. Seems like to saw it out would require a very large piece of wood plus it would leave some awkward cross grain. It's easier for me to laminate it than steam bend it. It will be painted so laminating won't show.

Ok, I understand, that curve is much looser than average.



BTW, I painted the canvas today immediately after hosing it down. Oil base paint on top of water but it worked fine.

It seems wacky when you go to do it, but it works.